Here's something you might be interested in.
I hadn't planned on talking about the refs and how they cost the Chargers a game. But then watching Monday Night Football, the refs did some similar things.
An Eagles receiver caught a bomb thrown by Donovan McNabb. He was in such a hurry to do his end zone celebration, that he threw the ball down BEFORE he even got into the end zone. His dance looked great, though!
I don't know why players do this. The dance, which is arrogant, and makes them look stupid. Or, not getting into the end zone first. I seem to remember a Raiders player doing that on Thanksgiving a few years back. Only, the defense was more on the ball (pun intended), and picked it up.
And why do the refs sometimes penalize one dance, but not others? Either penalize them all, or nobody.
Well, what confused me about this play last night is...the Cowboys challenged it. I thought a team couldn't challenge something, unless the refs blew a whistle on a play. If that's not the case, then some things should've been different in the Charger game, when coach Norv Turner asked why when Cutler fumbled and the Chargers picked it up, that didn't stand.
For those that didn't see, it was ruled an incomplete pass. Which isn't a bad mistake for a ref to make. After all, his arm is moving forward right after the fumble. The problem is that the ref blew his whistle, instead of (as they were told years ago), letting the play continue and figuring out when it's dead, what the correct call would be.
Sure, you can make the argument that the Chargers defense shouldn't have given up 30 points in the first half, or whatever it was. Or, that when they try to tackle someone, that player doesn't get extra yardage, but they go down immediately.
And, I always hate when people blame refs. If a team is a lot better, it shouldn't be close enough for the refs to make a difference. But, I can't say that this time.
Maybe it's just the anger of having L. Tomlinson on my team, in a game in which he had his third worst game as a pro (oh, how I miss Adrian Peterson, who I had last year).
I'm not sure why the refs didn't also use replay in this instance. The big fear with the NFL brass, is that it will make games 6 hours, if we review everything. But you don't have to. Let a ref in the booth decide, if there's something obvious the refs on the field missed. Or if it's something that can change the outcome of the game.
I don't know why boxing doesn't use this kind of system, either. Especially with all the scams that people say happen in that sport.
Which leads me to my next complaint. Idiotic fans that call sports shows, claiming there's a fix in, or refs being paid off. You can't even explain to those people why they're wrong. They don't listen to logic.
For example, if the refs were paid off, why did they wait for a play that could be mistaken for a fumble/incomplete pass? Wouldn't they have called the game more in the Broncos favor in the first half? And, on a number of plays, not just one (they conspiracy theorists will say "They won't do that, or it would be too obvious."). Which I guess means, a ref will have, let's say, $25,000 on game. They want a certain team to win. But, they'll wait until the 4th quarter, to make a questionable call. Oh, and they have to hope the game is close, because if one team is winning by 24 in the 4th quarter, what's the point of even calling something questionable, that could raise eyebrows?
And lastly...referee Ed Hochuli. Do they test NFL refs to see if they're on steroids, the way they do players?
I hadn't planned on talking about the refs and how they cost the Chargers a game. But then watching Monday Night Football, the refs did some similar things.
An Eagles receiver caught a bomb thrown by Donovan McNabb. He was in such a hurry to do his end zone celebration, that he threw the ball down BEFORE he even got into the end zone. His dance looked great, though!
I don't know why players do this. The dance, which is arrogant, and makes them look stupid. Or, not getting into the end zone first. I seem to remember a Raiders player doing that on Thanksgiving a few years back. Only, the defense was more on the ball (pun intended), and picked it up.
And why do the refs sometimes penalize one dance, but not others? Either penalize them all, or nobody.
Well, what confused me about this play last night is...the Cowboys challenged it. I thought a team couldn't challenge something, unless the refs blew a whistle on a play. If that's not the case, then some things should've been different in the Charger game, when coach Norv Turner asked why when Cutler fumbled and the Chargers picked it up, that didn't stand.
For those that didn't see, it was ruled an incomplete pass. Which isn't a bad mistake for a ref to make. After all, his arm is moving forward right after the fumble. The problem is that the ref blew his whistle, instead of (as they were told years ago), letting the play continue and figuring out when it's dead, what the correct call would be.
Sure, you can make the argument that the Chargers defense shouldn't have given up 30 points in the first half, or whatever it was. Or, that when they try to tackle someone, that player doesn't get extra yardage, but they go down immediately.
And, I always hate when people blame refs. If a team is a lot better, it shouldn't be close enough for the refs to make a difference. But, I can't say that this time.
Maybe it's just the anger of having L. Tomlinson on my team, in a game in which he had his third worst game as a pro (oh, how I miss Adrian Peterson, who I had last year).
I'm not sure why the refs didn't also use replay in this instance. The big fear with the NFL brass, is that it will make games 6 hours, if we review everything. But you don't have to. Let a ref in the booth decide, if there's something obvious the refs on the field missed. Or if it's something that can change the outcome of the game.
I don't know why boxing doesn't use this kind of system, either. Especially with all the scams that people say happen in that sport.
Which leads me to my next complaint. Idiotic fans that call sports shows, claiming there's a fix in, or refs being paid off. You can't even explain to those people why they're wrong. They don't listen to logic.
For example, if the refs were paid off, why did they wait for a play that could be mistaken for a fumble/incomplete pass? Wouldn't they have called the game more in the Broncos favor in the first half? And, on a number of plays, not just one (they conspiracy theorists will say "They won't do that, or it would be too obvious."). Which I guess means, a ref will have, let's say, $25,000 on game. They want a certain team to win. But, they'll wait until the 4th quarter, to make a questionable call. Oh, and they have to hope the game is close, because if one team is winning by 24 in the 4th quarter, what's the point of even calling something questionable, that could raise eyebrows?
And lastly...referee Ed Hochuli. Do they test NFL refs to see if they're on steroids, the way they do players?
Josh
Here's the official ruling on the Chargers incomplete pass call:
Last year, the NFL review rules for reviewing whether a player was down by contact prior to fumbling a ball were changed saying that, despite a whistle being blown, a coach can call for review of a player being down by contact or not prior to fumbling a ball, regardless of what the initial call on the field was. And, if it's determined that a player initially called down by contact actually fumbled and turned the ball over prior to being down by contact, the turnover stands. But, the yards gained after the turnover don't count. The ball is just spotted at the point where the ball was recovered by the defense.
However, the rules for reviewing whether a ball is an incomplete pass or a quarterback fumble weren't changed. The rules currently say that, if a referee initially rules a ball from the quarterback's hand to be an incomplete pass - even if he doesn't blow his whistle - the play is dead. It can be reviewed as to whether it was a fumble or an incompletion. But, since the ball is dead upon the call being made, the review can only determine where the ball is spotted (at the original line of scrimmage for an incomplete pass or at the spot of the fumble). And, a change of possession cannot occur, since the play was blown dead as soon as the ball touched the ground. It has nothing to do with the referee blowing his whistle.
But, if a play is initially called a fumble, the offensive coach can call for a replay to determine whether the ball was actually an incomplete pass. And, if overturned, the ball goes back to the offense.
So, it was Hochuli's initial call - not the fact that he blew the whistle - that prevented the play from being reviewed and overturned in the Chargers' favor.
When the NFL officials changed the down-by-contact rule, they considered changing the incomplete pass/fumble rule to allow a team that gets a takeaway on a ball ruled dead because the initial call was an incompletion. But, they figured that the ball could roll so far away from the main action (the line of scrimmage) that some players would be letting up and not going after the ball. Which is, of course, patently stupid reasoning, because if a team gives up on a play, they should take whatever consequences that brings.
The proposed rule change that the NFL will look at next year is to allow video review as to whether a ball was fumbled or an incomplete pass - regardless of whether the referee blows his whistle or what his initial call was - and if ruled a fumble that the defense recovers, the result of the play on the field stands.
paul
I'm waiting for someone to do the "Elaine" in the endzone. (Seinfeld)
Reviewable plays: Sideline, Goal Line, End Zone, and End-Line plays. Field goal attempts that bounce off the goal post are now reviewable under instant replay. Passing Plays. Other detectable infractions, such as a runner ruled down not by defensive contact, and the number of players on the field.
Thanks Paul and trestles, for the clarifications. I know a lot of that.
I think, basically, the NFL needs to just say the bottom line is this: we don't want to review EVERYTHING and have games be six hours long. But, we don't want to blow a crucial call. Therefore, we'll have the guy upstairs (not god, but the ref in the press box) watch everything, as the viewers at home get to see, with it all being replayed. And, if that ref can quickly correct a wrong, we'll do it.
After an extensive internet investigation, I have discovered a report from an inside source that may shed some light on the Charger/Bronco game:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/A-letter-from-Ed-Hochuli-s-Pit-Bull?urn=nfl,107717
:)
UPDATE: The NFL now says they WILL NOT mark Ed Hachuli down, since he admitted and apologized, for his mistake.
I have no problem with that.
I just hope in the future, they worry more about getting the call right.
I've been a Chargettes fan since the early '70s, but they drive me crazy. Who was it that coined the phrase "once again, they managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory"? They could just as easily have been talking about my other team, the Padres. Maybe they were; who knows? Let's ask Matthew Alice.
To me, if the Chargettes beat the Raiders, the Denver "chop block" Donkeys twice each in a season, it's a winning season. Even better if they can beat the best team money can buy, the New England Profiteers...er, I mean Patriots.
Well, lucky for you, the Raiders have sucked for a few years now.
Yeah, the chop block thing bothered me. But, I don't hold that against Denver the way I do other things to other teams. For example, Denver had a few jerks in that time. I forget his name...Bill Romanowski or something. He and a few others (even spit on people, poked eyes, etc).
Yet, a team like the Raiders...they have losers and thugs each year. And, I'm not just talking about the players. The fans often act this way, too.
Although, I do root for Kirk Morrison, a former SDSU player.
And, you don't need to worry about the Patriots this year. They were looking old near the end of last season, and now with Brady out, it's only a matter of time before Randy Moss stops trying to even run the routes (remember him doing that in Oakland?)
UPDATE: Ed Haculi had another controversy, when he called a "roughing the passer" that made the interception for a TD return not count. I don't know what game it was...possibly Cleveland.
Then, crazy owner Jerry Jones of Dallas, was fined $25,000 for saying Haculi and his crew make more mistakes than any other refs in the league.
Not a good year for that zebra.