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San Diego Coalition of Reason
Refried: "That which connot be proved nor disproved are equal." It's a different formulation than you proposed earlier, but I'll still bite... Evolution can be proved. It's been so conclusively proven with evidence that it's universally accepted by well educated people world wide. Religion, by it's nature, cannot be disproven. But it also cannot be proved. In fact, when proof for its "truth" are offered, they're easily dismissed as fake. Miracles? Floods? Virgin births? Raising people from the dead? Didn't happen. Evolution would be similarly easy to disprove. Show the fossilized bones of a rabbit in the pleistocene layer. Done. Simple. But that's never happened, and it almost certainly never will. We can disprove religion with numerous facts, including simply tracing the genesis of the contents of the scriptures themselves as they were written over time by various authors and edited over the centuries. It doesn't even prove the most basic claim...that it's the "word of God" when we can tell you who the authors are. So no, there are some things that are provable with evidence. Science is all about proof, (which comes from the Latin for "test"). Religion, on the other hand, has NO proof one way or the other. So with your new and improved formulation, I'll agree whole heartedly. Science and Religion are not equal, my friend. You're right. That's why I say that giving religion a pass precisely because it's incontrovertable nonsense is dishonest. Fred— November 21, 2009 9:33 p.m.
San Diego Coalition of Reason
Back to Einstein, His most famous quote about religion was "God doesn't play dice". This was in reaction to quantum theory. Interestingly, with more evidence now supporting quantum theories than Einstein's theories, the concept of the "multiverse" and alternative realities has gained a lot of ground. So according to Einstein's reasoning, only if "God" DID "play dice" could there exist an infinite number of parrallel universes where Gods may live. Interesting, huh?— November 21, 2009 9:23 p.m.
San Diego Coalition of Reason
Anti, the definition of "Pagan" is someone who disagrees with the dominant religion. It's true. Most religions demand the extermination of rivals. Atheism does not. It sure gives us a better reputation than theists or their silent collaborators, the wishy-washy agnostic who says "I don't know".— November 21, 2009 9:18 p.m.
San Diego Coalition of Reason
Okay, anti. Glad to hear you don't do the typical thing with the thesis coming before the research. Whenever I had a professor say this was the proper way to write I would cringe... I still think it's very clear from the totality of his comments and writings that when he used the term "God" it was refering to nature and its mysteries rather than an active deity that interferes in the world. I'd consider that a more deist than pantheist view, but won't quibble. We can agree he did NOT believe in what most people in America mean when they say "God". We can further agree that the famous scientist cannot be cited as a "religious person" who was inspired by "God" to come up with his insights. That's what Refried claimed as part of his attempt to show that scientists believe in "God". Actually, the members of the Academy of Sciences are overwhelmingly (+/-97%?) non-believers. I think we can conclude his use of Einstein to support his position is in error. Further, as I've repeated many times, Refried commits a basic logical fallacy when he contends that an inability to conclusively disprove a fiction somehow proves the fiction. Since Refried cannot prove that Hobbits don't exist, he must admit that believers in Hobbits deserve as much respect as staunch Mormons or Catholics. Best, Fred— November 21, 2009 9:13 p.m.
Obama taps Alan Bersin to oversee the border
Russl, I can feel the love...or is that wheatgrass trickling down my leg? I wish Fumber would get together with Matt Potter. Imagine the articles they'd write together: "Documents found in the basement of city hall show that in December of 2005 a HUMONGOUS deushe-bag chewing piece of raw fecal matter paid a private consultant $206,000 from the general fund to compile a worthless piece of dog dookie smothered in wet panty waste."— November 21, 2009 8:54 p.m.
Obama taps Alan Bersin to oversee the border
Calreb1 I'm not saying Matt Potter never ever makes a mistake. But you've admitted you've never read anything else by him. So before you dismiss him as a hack, have a quick look at his work: http://www.sandiegoreader.com/staff/matt-potter/s…— November 21, 2009 8:24 p.m.
San Diego Coalition of Reason
Re: Einstien and religion. See post #36. Those letters (no question of time of authorship) are dated late in his life. The pantheistic quotes are gathered from decades earlier, long before the bomb and other events that updated his world view. I take the time to read your posts before I bother to contradict them. Please do me the same courtesy. I cited three different sources, all of them within the first ten results when you type "einstein religion" into Google. There are dozens of quotes there, all properly identified and dated. I think quoting some undergraduate paper, where the thesis is almost always chosen before the research is begun, and the scramble is typically to find evidence for a position rather than to evaluate the evidence fairly, is not very convincing. Look again. Einstein's own words, near the end of his life. The same trick was tried with free thinkers like Voltaire and Paine, claiming they were secretly religious. It's slander on these men to claim they needed the sad crutch of religion to inspire their great thoughts. Best, Fred— November 21, 2009 8:03 p.m.
San Diego Coalition of Reason
Refried, actually, I'm not emotional at all my friend. It's just the way I write. Since a lot of my paid writing is technical, I tend to use direct language, second person, active voice, present tense. I avoid circumlocutions, the subjunctive, euphemism, and other "polite" forms. So it may appear that I'm "emotional" when I'm just writing vigorously. So, to return to the subject: 1. Curious how your war-cries are all adapted from religious armies out to kill the non-believers. 2. Not knowing, if that were the position of the majority, would be acceptable. But non-believers in the USA are constantly confronted by BELIEVERS who are CERTAIN and are commanded to spread the word. Atheists are villified. You tell us to shut up. You claim we have no morality. You claim that because we openly refuse to believe in fairy tales and magic that we are rude. You demand respect for ridiculous beliefs while scorning, deliberately misinterpreting, and maligning actual hard-won knowledge about our world. Religious fanatics have a strong role in our government today. Atheists are excluded at all levels. There's only one openly atheist member of the congress. Every president has to at least pay lip service to magical wishes with a mandatory "God bless America". Yet you're insisting that just putting up a billboard questioning the existence of your "God" is somehow a dirty rotten rude thing to do. Next time you're in San Diego, have a look around at the number of religious ads. You probably don't even notice them since they're so ubiquitous. Atheists put up one billboard. Just one, after millenia of silence... Who is intolerant? Who is demanding death for "wrong" beliefs? Only the religious, my friend. The "holy" books all have commandments to kill me. That's right. If you or anyone else really truly believes in the bible, it's your DUTY to hunt me down and murder me. The religious have a long history of this violent behavior. Yet you want us to "shut up"? No.— November 21, 2009 7:54 p.m.
Obama taps Alan Bersin to oversee the border
SurfP, I've met Bersin a few times. I can guarantee you that Calreb1 is not him. Russl, where is our buddy fumber when we need him? I feel so skinny when he's not reminding me that I'm HUMONGOUS. Back to the subject at hand: Matt Potter is described by his colleagues as THE "document man". He has a reputation for diving into stacks and piles of papers, finding the pearls and bringing them up to the surface. He's been doing it for what? Twenty years? More? I think if he says he's got the documentation for his facts, he's worthy of trust. Of course how he arranges and presents those facts to the readers is perhaps different from how you would do so. If so, then it's your responsibility to present these facts differently. I think there's no doubt that Bersin owns properties affected by his decisions, and he's disclosed them. He also is part of the gang that runs this town -- mostly in its own interests. That's clear. But it could be presented more innocently. He's just a poor boy working his way up in the world, taking the opportunities along the way. Unfortunately, from long experience in San Diego, we know that the self-interested insiders are never satisfied, always wanting more of the public's money while manipulating the media to make themselves look good. Since I already agree with Matt, I don't object to his presentation of the facts. If you don't agree with our conclusions (Calreb1, I'm talking to you!) then present your version. Then we'd have something to discuss. But impuning Matt Potter's work as a journalist won't really fly. His reputation is not in doubt. Bersin's reputation, however, is very much in doubt. I'm glad Matt has brought some of these details to light. Best, Fred "Humongous Sack of Lard" Williams— November 21, 2009 7:40 p.m.
San Diego Coalition of Reason
For thousands of years non-believers have been under a death sentence. Executions for apostasy, heresy, or non-belief have been common though the ages. Now, finally, we are able to at last speak our minds without fear. And all Refried can come up with is "Shut Up!" No. We won't shut up. We're not only forced to see your religious symbols and propaganda every day, but we're mostly forced to keep quiet for fear of being attacked for our beliefs. And you yell, "Shut Up!" No. You cannot even get through your head that religion and no-religion are fundamentally different things...you say they're identical. Why are you being deliberately obtuse? Is it because your emotional attachment to your invisible friend overpowers your reason? You demand respect for this? You command US to shut up? No. Refried, I'll be clear and simple for you. God is so highly unlikely to exist that it's simply stupid to believe in it. If you cannot take this truth, then your reasoning is highly suspect...what other crazy things do you believe? Unicorns? No? Then let us speak without you trying to impose censorship upon our ideas. We've been quiet for thousands of years. Time for you to actually learn some truth, rather than respecting goat herder fairy tales. Best, Fred— November 21, 2009 7:17 p.m.