Monday night, I was craving a beef bowl from Yoshinoya’s, so decided to drive south to the Yoshinoya’s in Chula Vista, down on Palomar and Third. That’s a bit of a drive from my location. It was almost rush hour, to top it off; I would likely hit traffic. When I left my house it was a little past four; I decided to stay off the freeway and take the street way, down Main Street, which turns into National City Boulevard, eventually to Third Avenue which would lead to Palomar. I wasn’t in a big hurry; as long as I got home with a beef bowl by kick-off time, it didn’t matter what the Chargers did, I could handle it.

As I was driving down National City Boulevard, through the Mile of Cars, I saw a couple of guys on the sidewalk to my right. One of them had dark hair, and the face stubble thing, nicely dressed. The guy with him was taller, thinner, and red-headed. They were gay, and very beautiful. There’s a line between handsomely beautiful and too pretty when it comes to gay guys. Joey and Brad from The Rachel Zoe Project are really funny and interesting to watch on the show but totally an example of not babe magnets. These guys I saw were hot. I actually got out my camera phone and took pictures of them while I was at the red light. Not a first: some months back, I was driving downtown around noontime, the streets were thick with traffic, the sidewalks thick with people. This one guy stood out in the crowd; he was taller than six feet, slender, wearing black shirt, pants, shoes, all very fashionable; his hair was beautifully cut, darkish blonde, layered with blonde highlights, a fetching smile on his lovely face. I stared at him as he walked down the street, I mean literally for a moment, I looked around for a place to pull over as if to park and follow him, before coming back to reality by telling myself I had an appointment and couldn’t be late. He turned and walked into a building; above the entrance was a sign for a School of Beauty. I shoulda known. But he was simply amazing looking, absolutely scrummy.

It’s been years since I’ve found a straight man sexually appealing. Even old crushes that at one time were the lovepuppets of my fantasies and daydreams, don’t do much for me now, physically or emotionally; anymore, I don’t see straight men as love interests, but as friends. I didn’t realize how far things had gone until recently. I was watching Kenneth Brown on HGTV’s The Big Reveal. Brown is an interior designer who used to have his own show on HGTV, ReDesign, and I loved to watch the show, mainly because I liked his design style and the way he hosted the show. The show’s been off the air for some time, but when they showed a recap of one of the shows on The Big Reveal, I found myself lusting for Kenneth’s body. Furniture, what furniture? Yes, okay the furniture is nice, but Kenneth, you’re making me forget how to breathe!

Only certain types really do it for me. I love the way Ricky Martin dances, love the way George Michael sings, but they don’t turn me on. I find Adam Lambert, the runner up on American Idol last year, moderately attractive, whereas Clay Aiken can put his shoes under my bed anytime. Therein lies the hitch, of course. It’s one thing to find straight celebrities sexually attractive; you may want George Clooney in the worst way, but first you have to get into his orbit, attract his attention, then lure him into your boudoir. On the other hand, getting Kenneth Brown or Clay Aiken between the sheets with a chick makes the odds of getting Clooney into bed look pretty good by comparison.

Many years ago when I was at City College, I was late for my first day of class. I walked in the room, everyone was sitting around a conference table, and there was only one chair left, so I squeezed in between two guys. The guy on my right, I became aware, was gorgeous. He had a beautifully sculpted face, eyes the color of the ocean, from green to grey to blue, pale skin, reddish-blonde curling long hair. I don’t remember what the first assignment was, but we had to partner up with a small group; this guy, “David,” was part of my group. Over the course of the few weeks he was in the class, I got to know him pretty well. Despite his striking looks, he was easy to be around, smart and friendly. David was a dancer, had been in shows and commercials; he had most recently been in a Gap commercial. He was tall, had a toned, defined body; growing up, he had been a champion swimmer. David wore the best clothes, a mix of New York hip and California cool that was killer stylish. He was also gay.

David told me that his industry was full of gay men; Hollywood, he said, was mostly gay guys pretending to be straight. He insisted that Tom Cruise was gay. I had to laugh at that; maybe David’s fantasies had him fantasizing. My sense was that he was struggling with his sexual identity; he told me that he had not come out to his father because his father would never accept that he was gay. Whenever we talked about him being gay, he would quickly say that he sometimes got crushes on women. He mentioned a female bartender he was very attracted to. I think he also mentioned Angelina Jolie as someone whom he considered sexy.

Years ago, I had worked in a department store, in Junior Fashions. There were five women clerks in the department, as I recall, besides an assistant manager and the manager. Two of the women had the same names, one was “Debbie,” the other “Debby.” One Debbie was tall and pretty, a bit on the heavy side with a large chest; she was a student studying to be a social worker, plus she had another job somewhere else. The other Debby was young, small and thin with short badly-permed hair and a severe acne condition, huge zits with craters of pus that would break out in bunches on her cheeks and chin; she wore dentures on her bottom teeth, you could see the wires when she talked. Big Debbie told me that little Debby was in love with a guy over in Men’s. Little Debby had pursued this man in all sorts of ways, including talking him into sex and then telling him she was pregnant, which she wasn’t. I think that’s how the conversation came up, because at the time little Debby was making a show of puking every five minutes. Big Debbie said she had counseled little Debby a number of times to get over it and move on. At that time, the guy was planning to move to San Francisco, would be gone within the month. Big Debbie said that the guy was gay. Oh my God. Drama, I thought. Was totally not interested in any of it.

The Men’s Department was across from the Women’s Department. We had to go through the Men’s department to log in and out; the time stamp machine was in their stock room. One of the men there always said hello to me as I ran through on my way to the stock room and ran back through on my way to the floor; I have throughout my life been late everywhere, but that’s a story for another day. Anyway, I never had the time to pay attention to this guy beyond saying hello, never even looked at him except to note that he dressed well. One day Big Debbie told me that this guy in Men’s wanted to ask me out. It turned out that the guy was the guy who was friendly when I would go through the Men’s department; it also turned out to be the guy Little Debby was crazy about. “He wants to go out with me? I thought you said he was gay!” Big Debbie laughed. “Well, not as gay as he is with Debby.” I guess Big Debbie conveyed what I said, because he never approached me himself, and sometime after that he must have left for San Francisco.

I had been promoted to Junior Assistant Manager by then. Suddenly things just started to go wrong. Stock paperwork I had prepared was pinned to clothing it shouldn’t have been. Some of the women were clearly hostile to my presence, including the assistant manager; I got the feeling they were mad at me, but I had no idea why. The last straw was a day I put on a pair of shoes I wanted to match my outfit and forgot to pay for them when I left the store. Someone who had to have been one of my co-workers reported me to Store Security. I explained the mistake, and was allowed to keep my job. But I could tell the manager was not happy with my work anymore. So I gave two weeks’ notice. Two days after I left, I was called by the manager of the display department to tell me they had liked my work and had been prepared to offer me a job, but I had quit; I was devastated, display would have been my dream job at the store.

By then I had met the future father of my children, and we were looking for a place to live. My last days in the store, he would come in to the department and hang around Junior Fashions while I worked. One day I was at the register in my area, hanging up some dresses, when the gay guy who used to work in Men’s showed up. Instead of taking the escalator, he had taken the elevator nearest to where my area was because I saw him as he walked up from the back; I smiled at him and he came over. He had a lovely slow smile, dark eyes, dark curling hair. It strikes me now, thinking about him, that he was probably shy. He was wearing a really nice suit; he said hello. I was surprised to see him there; I thought he was living in San Francisco now. Yes, he said, he was, but he had come down to visit. Just as he said that, my boyfriend showed up and without saying a word came over and leaned against the counter. The gay guy looked at him, looked at me, gave an awkward, embarrassed smile, said that it was nice seeing me, and left.

Do you know, it was years before I figured out that Little Debby was behind all the problems I had at the store, that she had undermined my job out of jealousy? For as much good as it ever did her sorry stupid ugly behind. There, I said it. The little freak ruined my life!


PistolPete Oct. 22, 2009 @ 1:14 a.m.

No problem ;-D What self-respcting bisexual DOESN'T love Georgios Kyriacos Panayiotou?


antigeekess Oct. 22, 2009 @ 2 a.m.

Best Pop Male Vocalist of the last 2 decades, hands down. Love him and that song.

"It’s been years since I’ve found a straight man sexually appealing."

LOL. Right there with ya. I mean, what's there to be attracted to, really? They're just not pretty, are they? ('Cept for Viggo and a few exceptionally beautiful others.)

"It’s one thing to find celebrities sexually attractive; you may want George Clooney in the worst way, but first you have to attract his attention."

Gee, I dunno. Clooney's kinda discreetly slutty, isn't he? :) I mean, my understanding is that he prefers to date regular folks. Like, if you're a waitress, but you're cute and smart, I think you've got a shot with Georgie!

Regarding Tom Cruise, I think your friend was right. It's been the rumor for years, and whether he is or not, gay men seem to have claimed him (whiiiiiich will probably get this comment edited or removed -- I understand he's pretty litigious about it).

I've found that with certain of these "gay" guys, their level of gayness is inversely proportional to a woman's level of hotness and/or drunkenness. As in, "Oh, wait a second. Here come Mr. Gay's lips in my direction. Whaddup widdat?"



SDaniels Oct. 22, 2009 @ 3 a.m.

Who did Little Debbie think she was, acting that way, stealing your gays!? Guess her family snack cake fortune made her uppity.


SDaniels Oct. 22, 2009 @ 3:12 a.m.

Getting serious for a moment, "Father Figure" STILL gives me the chills every time I listen to it, and I don't think it's just the fever. That song drove my mother crazy too--sure it's a cliche-- but damn does he ever tell a girl or guy EXACTLY what s/he wants--just the right blend of passion and true-ness. Lawks a mercy, it gettin' hot up in heah. :)


Joe Poutous Oct. 22, 2009 @ 4:53 a.m.

"... Guess her family snack cake fortune made her uppity."

  • prolly gave her that killer acne, too.

SDaniels Oct. 22, 2009 @ 4:55 a.m.

"prolly gave her that killer acne, too."

How did I miss that golden snackcake-like opportunity?

SOB!!! HIC. :)


SurfPuppy619 Oct. 22, 2009 @ 7:33 a.m.

David told me that his industry was full of gay men; Hollywood, he said, was mostly gay guys pretending to be straight. He insisted that Tom Cruise was gay


Right up there with the GED cops saying that they all have college degrees.

BTW-I know why you are attracted to gay men CuddleFish, they're totally unavailable .

Most women who have men relationship problems cannot handle a relationship (not you, just as a general rule), and their way of dealing with it is to lust after men that are unavailable.

BTW-the story was a good read, really enjoyed it.

As for George Michael, "Wham" was one hell of a good group!!! :)

Here is my favorite GM song, by far (loved it when it came out 20 years ago-love it today);

George Michael - Waiting for That Day


CuddleFish Oct. 22, 2009 @ 8:28 a.m.

Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the story, SurfPuppy. I don't know about the first part of your analysis (can't handle relationships), but I think the second part may be true: The challenge. Though I must confess it is rather painful, and will talk about that in another thread.

AG, agree about George Michaels being a great vocalist, and some of the greatest pop songs ever were sung by him. As to your assessment of straight men, I mean, I have reluctantly come to the same conclusion. It's not that you don't want to like straight men, it's just that they -- well, you know ...

Okay, Clooney was a bad example, but I couldn't think of another unmarried celebrity hound at the moment I was posting. Anyway, my point was otherwisely.

Your other point is backed up in the Adam Lambert article. Clay Aiken has also talked about this in interviews and articles. I think it's interesting that women have no issues being attracted to gay men and saying so, which probably frustrates and baffles them to some extent.

SD, when I wrote the thread I actually did figure someone would do the Little Debby joke connection, but I thought it would be AG, not you!!! Yes, love the song Father Figure, it can be read so many ways ...


CuddleFish Oct. 22, 2009 @ 8:46 a.m.

Oh, and I should have maybe said that it wasn't that Debby had stolen my gay guy, it was that she thought I had stolen him, when frankly, I hardly knew he existed!! Which is interesting because I have always had a fondness for beauty in men, and he was beautiful. At the time, I had no interest in gays, I guess, assuming they had no interest in me. But also, as I said, thinking back now, he must have been somewhat shy. I realize now that he must have positioned himself somewhere near where I would see him, every day when I came in the department, enough to say hello to, and really just never thought twice about him or even noticed him. But apparently he noticed me, and the two Debbies noticed him noticing me, and that's what led Debby to her revenge. That's the thing that got me, was that I lost a shot at a job I would have loved, because of her jealousy.

Will add here, didn't in the thread because I had already piled on enough about her there, that she was a terrible dresser. I remember she had one outfit in particular that she used to wear A LOT: an acrylic sweater dress that looked like a kite, bat wing from sleeve cuff to hem (this was long after bat wing sleeves were so over), with a garishly colored harlequin pattern over the front, white on the back, she used to wear white tights and black maryjanes with the dress.

Okay, I've vented enough about Debby, God Bless her, wherever she is.


antigeekess Oct. 22, 2009 @ 12:33 p.m.

"SD, when I wrote the thread I actually did figure someone would do the Little Debby joke connection, but I thought it would be AG, not you!!!"

Cuddle, I tried. I really did. Somewhere on the internet there's a pic of the best tattoo EVER. It's the Little Debbie logo, tattooed on that special girlie area we were discussing in the waxing thread.

Let's just say it puts a whole new spin on the slogan:

"Whenever you get snack hungry, Little Debbie has a snack for you."


This will have to do:


nan shartel Oct. 22, 2009 @ 2:49 p.m.

Little Debbie was a HOHO look alike and not worth the tasting!!!

does sound like sexy shorthand???



CuddleFish Oct. 22, 2009 @ 3:02 p.m.

LOLOLOL nan, not worth the tasting!!!


nan shartel Oct. 22, 2009 @ 6:19 p.m.

i love this blog Cuddlefish...especially the snacks!!!


SDaniels Oct. 22, 2009 @ 7:40 p.m.

"an acrylic sweater dress that looked like a kite, bat wing from sleeve cuff to hem (this was long after bat wing sleeves were so over), with a garishly colored harlequin pattern over the front, white on the back, she used to wear white tights and black maryjanes with the dress."

White tights. After Labor Day? This is starting to sound like one of those dog costumes-- :)


CuddleFish Oct. 22, 2009 @ 8:10 p.m.

I'm sure nan would never allow her dog to wear white tights!


lalatoo Oct. 23, 2009 @ 12:03 a.m.

I'm glad to see another straight female wouldn't mind having Clay Aiken's shoes under her bed (and see what's so appealing about him). Loved your article!


CuddleFish Oct. 23, 2009 @ 12:24 a.m.

Ooooh, lalatoo, stay tuned, this forum is going to hear a lot more about the subject than they probably ever cared to know!!!


CuddleFish Oct. 23, 2009 @ 12:29 a.m.

Though not soon, I hasten to add. While it is a subject I never get tired of, wouldn't want to try these good people's patience!!!


SurfPuppy619 Oct. 23, 2009 @ 8:24 a.m.

I'm glad to see another straight female wouldn't mind having Clay Aiken's shoes under her bed

By lalatoo

Clay Aiken, LOL!



CuddleFish Oct. 23, 2009 @ 10:55 a.m.

Oh yes, please, please, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

A thousand days and a thousand nights are not enough ....


Joe Poutous Oct. 23, 2009 @ 3:18 p.m.

Maybe it's better that I just don't get it.

  • Joe

SDaniels Oct. 25, 2009 @ 8:14 p.m.

Ok, let's just make it official and talk about our embarrassing crushes on gay icons (gaycons?) then, shall we?

I'll go first. When I was twelve, I started listening to my aunt's record collection, and had a brief mental affair with Paul Simon--AND Art Garfunkel. :)

Cuddle, we have registered your achin' for Aiken, but you should by all means, especially since you are thread host, deliver us another shocking revel-gay--tion :)


CuddleFish Oct. 25, 2009 @ 8:55 p.m.

Is Paul Simon and/or Art Garfunkel gay???? Geez, no one tells me anything!!!!!

LOL I'm afraid those are the only revel-gay-tions I have at the moment, but aren't those enough??? Every time I see a handsome gay guy in the street I feel like stalking him, isn't that enough??? Clay Aiken rocks my world, isn't that enough???

I guess I could add this, about David, the guy at City: I would see him napping on the grass or on the benches and I would walk over and just stare at him. He was heartbreakingly beautiful ... I would have loved to have kissed him because he was so beautiful.


CuddleFish Oct. 25, 2009 @ 8:58 p.m.

Is Paul Simon and/or Art Garfunkel gay????

LOL Lord, I jacked that first part up!!! Try that again:

Is Paul Simon gay??? Is Art Garfunkel gay??? Are they gay???


antigeekess Oct. 25, 2009 @ 9:11 p.m.

I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that Paul is NOT gay:

"Simon has been married three times. His first marriage was to Peggy Harper; they were married in late autumn 1969. They had a son, Harper Simon, in 1972. They divorced in 1975. The song "Train in the Distance," from Simon's 1983 album, is about this relationship. [9] Simon's 1972 song "Run That Body Down," from his debut solo album, casually mentions both himself and his then-wife ("Peg") by name.

His second marriage was to actress and author Carrie Fisher to whom he proposed after a New York Yankees game.[10] (The song "Hearts and Bones" was written about this relationship.)

He married folk singer Edie Brickell on May 30, 1992. They have three children together." -- Wikipedia.

As for Art:
"Garfunkel married Linda Marie Grossman in 1972; they divorced in 1975. He was romantically involved with actress and photographer Laurie Bird until her death in 1979.[13] On 18 September 1988, he married former model Kathryn (Kim) Cermak. They have two children, James, born 15 December 1990, and Beau Daniel, born 5 October 2005 via surrogate mother. [14]_ -- also Wikipedia.

Um, neither of them appear to be gay, based on their marriages and kids.


SDaniels Oct. 25, 2009 @ 9:16 p.m.

"Paul Simon and/or Art Garfunkel gay????"

The 'AND' in all caps was meant to dramatically introduce Garfunkel as my gaycon.

Not Paul Simon--a well known womanizer. But Garfunkel--have you ever heard him in an interview?! Hard to believe he isn't, and the rumors have got to be true... Wow, I better think of another one, then. :)


SDaniels Oct. 25, 2009 @ 9:23 p.m.

"I'm afraid those are the only revel-gay-tions I have at the moment, but aren't those enough???"

Sointen-ly. Just thought you might have another identifiable celeb gaycon we could hash over :) I just thought of a couple more: in junior high, all the girls had crushes on the New Wave musicians wearing makeup and extreme hair. Duran Duran--at least two gay or bi there (for sure, the one called Nick?), dump duhnn--


I'll tumble for ya, I'll tumble for ya, I'll tumble for ya, I'll tumble for YOU. ;)


SDaniels Oct. 25, 2009 @ 9:36 p.m.

Found this completely inconclusive bit of gossip:

""Art Garfunkel" is apparently a euphemism for straight-on-straight gay sex in the north of England. Weird. posted by snoktruix at 7:32 PM on January 20, 2007"


CuddleFish Oct. 25, 2009 @ 9:39 p.m.

By the way, what's embarrassing about crushes on gaycons??

Is there something I don't know???


SDaniels Oct. 25, 2009 @ 9:54 p.m.

re: #34: Surely you can see why one might consider it a tad embarrassing, Cuddle. Crushes in general can be embarrassing.

So here is more tripe from answerbag on the burning question (for me) of the day: Is Art Garfunkel gay? This guy clearly relishes this tale, embellished over years of retelling:

"No question he is. I was attending an Art Garfunkel show at Starlight Ampitheater in Kansas City probably a decade ago. It was mid to late summer and I was in decent shape, clad in shorts and frankly, looking pretty good. I was with a good friend of mine who was renting equipment to some of Garfunkel's backup musicians.

Anyway, I was standing offstage during the show and during a break, he came over to where I was standing in a circle of about 3-4 others. He grabbed a towel from one of his handlers, then took a step forward and stuck his face right in mine. The lighting was poor, and I simply presumed he was trying to figure out who I was and why I was in such close proximity to the state. No biggie.

After the show, I was leaning against my buddy's car which was pulled up behind the stage area of this outdoor venue, waiting for him to retrieve the equipment he'd rented the band. Art Garfunkel comes out of his dressing room, strides past 3-4 aging female groupies each decked-out in full whore attire, and made a beeline straight towards me. He refused to even turn his head to acknowledge these ladies, instead staring daggers into me as he walked straight toward me from a range of 40 yards. As he came within 10 feet of me, and without taking his eyes off of me, he made a sharp turn and boarded his tour bus, clearly demonstrating to me his predeliction for good looking younger men.

I felt like a piece of meat."


CuddleFish Oct. 25, 2009 @ 10:07 p.m.

LOL Whatever, Mr. Meat!!!

As to the crushes, enlighten me!!


SDaniels Oct. 26, 2009 @ 12:39 a.m.

Yes, Mistuh Meat and his tale of meeting--oh, and he wasn't in "full whore attire?" Hmmm. :)

I thought I just sort of did explain, but---sighhhh--ok, just had a nice nap, so will oblige. I sometimes can't tell when you are like, testing me to see if I'll answer appropriately, or when you are seriously seeking an answer, Fishy...

So. They are called "crushes" because they are not often happy.

Crushes almost always carry at least a bit of vulnerability with them. The vulnerability of allowing oneself to feel a sense of intimacy for someone otherwise unknown--('get a life, man'). This vulnerability can translate to a sense of embarrassment, because crushes remain almost by definition unrequited--if the other person likes you, it is then a mutual crush, and the term might take on a more sensual connotation than it does for a single love/lust-angsty party.

I feel like this captures the main point, but it would be interesting to hear others add to the definition.


SDaniels Oct. 26, 2009 @ 12:49 a.m.

Oh gosh--still sleepy--forgot for a moment this had to define a gaycon crush. Ok, I guess I imagined it would be embarrassing a. because of the unavailability of the gaycon, as mentioned by others in this thread, and b. gayness has an obvious, though unfortunate stigma attached. Add in any other wierdnesses or complications, and you add in further embarrassment and vulnerability.


CuddleFish Oct. 26, 2009 @ 4:08 a.m.


Well let me ask you this: are you embarrassed by your crushes?


SDaniels Oct. 26, 2009 @ 9:50 a.m.

I was. I don't really have them anymore--focus on other things--guess I crush on events, ideas, in my dotage :) When I was fourteen, yes--painfully embarrassed--right into my twenties. Wernchoo?


CuddleFish Oct. 26, 2009 @ 9:55 a.m.

Nah. A crush is a crush is a crush.

Lord, girl, I used to chase little boys on the playground when I was a bitty bed-wetter!!!


SDaniels Oct. 26, 2009 @ 9:59 a.m.

Minx. Sure, I knew that early on, too, but then it took me a while to relearn to chase ;)


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