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U-T Saw Ryan Leaf as a Savior
Last year the Brewers won the Central and won 25 more games than the Padres. And that little metro area outdrew the team from the 3 million+ metro area by over 900k. Even the Dodgers, who were tied with the Padres for last place on July 1st AND were suffering through the Frank and Jaime McCourt debacle still managed to pull in almost 3 million fans. Seems that San Diego gives a new meaning to the term "fair weather" fans.— April 25, 2012 2:44 p.m.
U-T Saw Ryan Leaf as a Savior
"The Braves moved from Milwaukee to Atlanta for lack of fan support, even though they had had some great years in the 1950s" Indeed they did Mr. Bauder. From 1953, when Milwaukee County Stadium opened, thru 1959, the Braves led in attendance every year except 1. In 1959, the Dodgers out drew them in the Coliseum by about 250k. The Braves attendance really didn't drop until the team was sold in 1962, when the new owner made it clear he wanted to move the team to a bigger market. Long story short, that's how they ended up in Atlanta. But since I'm not as old as you, I was referring to more recent years, like the last 20 yrs or so. From 1990 thru 2000, while the Brewers were still at County Stadium, they averaged just under 1.6 million per year. That's not bad for a small market team, especially when you consider the Padres only averaged about 1.8 million in a metro area that's close to what, about twice that of Milwaukee. And since the Brewers moved from County to Miller Park, they have averaged over 2.5 million and have out drawn the Padres over the time both Miller Park and Petco have been open. And again that's a team in metro area of well under 2 million outdrawing a team in a metro area of over 3 million. I would say that's pretty fair support.— April 25, 2012 10:51 a.m.
U-T Saw Ryan Leaf as a Savior
So you "used" the stats I supplied. But you said you disagree with them. Why is that? If you have no other to compare to, then I don't understand what you disagree with. The Raiders averaged in the low to mid 40k range in a stadium that hold in the range of 95k for football. In 1993, the attendance average was 41,000 for home games and the NFL average was over 63,000. You are correct in regards to Green Bay's attendance as a percentage of the market area. However as I said above, there are always exceptions. Green Bay is an anomaly that couldn't happen today. When they were formed, small town teams were commonplace in the NFL. That's the way it was until the 20s and 30s. And don't forget, their fan base does extend into the Milwaukee metro area and Milwaukee has always done a good job of supporting baseball and not so bad with basketball also. I don't know if I agree with the thesis that UCLA/USC would hurt the NFL. I think it's the other way around. I think we are pretty typical. We live close to UCLA and both of our daughters went there. We go to about half of the football games every year. We would be able to go to both UCLA nad NFL, by quire honestly, given the choice between the two, we'd pick the NFL. Most people we know feel the same in that we consider UCLA as a substitute, not a main attraction.— April 24, 2012 7:21 p.m.
U-T Saw Ryan Leaf as a Savior
Actually, I agree with you completely. I refer to both as LA teams in discussions such as these because unless I am mistaken, I have never read of Don Bauder referring to them as separate markets. Generally, I believe he refers to them both as being part of the the LA market. Now that being said though, I believe for TV ratings purposes the LA metro area does include both LA and OC as do the major pro sports leagues. So I guess in that sense he is correct. And of course at least one new football stadium dreamer/developer expects to draw not only from LA/OC but the entire southland as well. I live in LA and though I am a Dodgers fan, I am also and Angels fan. Always have been and at various points have had season tickets to each. At this point in the season, we have about 2 dozen tickets each for games this year; we will probably have more depending how certain teams are doing as the season progresses. But when having to make the choice, it's Dodgers. The same can't be said for football. I was a Rams fan from the start. When they moved to OC, that's where I went. I MAY have possibly gone to a couple of Raider games, but only because of the opposing team and it's something I will never admit to in any other conversation than an anonymous one. LOL— April 24, 2012 6:31 p.m.
U-T Saw Ryan Leaf as a Savior
I'm curious as to exactly which specific stats do you disagree with and what stats do you have in their place. And I have to say that to me "real fanaticism" and "enthusiastic support" are not the same thing. I would never say that LA football fans were fanatical about their teams, anymore so than the SD fans are fanatical about the Chargers. That is unless you count the Raider fanatics (and for them I don't use the term fanatic in a complimentary way). In 2007, 14 teams, almost half the league, drew 100 percent capacity. Last year only 9 of 32 teams drew 100 percent capacity. How much of that draw was due to a winning history? Ten years ago, Buffalo drew 73k +. Last year, fewer than 63k, going from the top 10 to the bottom 5 in terms of percentage to capacity. Arizona was 4th in attendance in 2008, their Super Bowl year. Since then there attendance has fallen every year, dropping to 19th last year. The Chargers have never been one of the leagues top draws, usually falling in the mid 20's; last year they were 25th, which happens to be 1 spot better than the Browns, btw. (They may fill the dog pound, but they haven't filled the stadium in recent years). Even the vaunted GB Packers, the team owned by the people, the team who won the Super Bowl last year, only ranked 18th., Can you imagine that, the season after winning the Super Bowl, they actually drew less fans! In terms of fan support, San Diego hasn't given much more support to the Chargers than LA did to the Rams and Raiders. The difference is that the Rams and Raiders could walk away, at basically no cost, for a better offer. The Chargers can't say the same thing. In every sport, you will find a handful of teams with a rabid fan base who consistently buy a lot of tickets regardless of how well or poorly the team does. But those are the exceptions, not the rule, as I'm sure you would agree.— April 24, 2012 1:21 p.m.
U-T Saw Ryan Leaf as a Savior
I disagree with your characterization that we Angelinos didn't support the Rams after the Raiders came to town. The decline in Rams attendance was directly related to their decline in performance. After the Raiders came to town, the Rams still averaged over 90% of capacity close to 60k per game, excluding the strike year, while they were winning. Many games were sold out. I know because I was a season ticket holder. During John Robinson's tenure as coach, the Rams went to the playoffs 7 out of the first 8 yrs. Attendance began to decline only when the team started losing. In their last 4 yrs, attendance dropped almost 30% while the Rams were averaging less than 5 wins per year. That's why attendance dropped, because they were losing, not because their were 2 teams. Like I said, I know because I was there. As to your supposition that LA won't support 2 pro teams in the same sport, I need only point to the Dodgers and Angels. Over the last 30 yrs, The Dodgers have led baseball in attendance and the Angels have been consistently in the top 5. And they haven't exactly done a lot of winning in most of those years.— April 24, 2012 10 a.m.
U-T Saw Ryan Leaf as a Savior
I would disagree here slightly. It's neither the venue, Petco or the "storied tradition", the Padres, that draw us Angelinos, it's actually the Dodgers. We come down to see the Dodgers kick the Padres' butts. It doesn't matter if it's Petco, the Murph. Hell, we would still come down en masse if it were Westgate or Lane Field. We don't come down because of what the stadium has to offer, we come down because our team is there.— April 20, 2012 9:04 a.m.
Bridgepoint Exploiting Military, Says Senator
I don't remember the exact dates, but as I recall, he surrendered himself at the downtown jail after the Thanksgiving holiday. He was there about a month or so and then was transferred to the work furlough facility in Nat City. He got out sometime in late June/early July. I believe he got his sentence reduced by 1/ 3 for being good and another week or so because of overcrowding. He was a gardener and I think he took care of the roses. With John Moores finally deciding to find a REAL buyer, as apposed to a wannabe, for the Padres, how about a little C Arnholt Smith/Padres trivia. Everybody knows that Rat Kroc bought the Padres from Smith, but how many remember, without looking it up, that they almost went to someone else. A grocery store magnate named Joseph Danzansky headed a group that was going to buy them and move them to Washington DC. He had a deal in principal after the '73 season. Everything was packed up and ready to go. The baseball cards even had been printed up with either WASHINGTON or STARS, depending on which story you read. At the last minute, Kroc heard the Padres might be for sale and came calling. I have heard it was Buzzie Bavasi who convinced Smith to sell to Kroc because he was buying the whole team and it would be easier to get MLB approval with only one person involved. Imagine how SD would be different if Smith had sold to Danzansky; no money spent fixing up the Murph and no money spent on a downtown stadium. Just think of all the other things the pols could have spent those hundreds of millions on. Simply mind boggling. One last tidbit. To put things in perspective, a year before the Padres were sold to Kroc foe $12 Million, George Steinbrenner and his group bought Yankees for only $8.8 million. Considering how things stand today, I'd call that a pretty good deal for the late Mr. S.— April 15, 2012 10:44 p.m.
Bridgepoint Exploiting Military, Says Senator
Dude, NOBODY hounded him into an early grave. He was convicted of embezzlement in 1979 and sentenced to 3 yrs, which he never began serving until 1984. And then the sentence was reduced to one year and he only served about seven months at the county honor camp. He was given a fine of $30,000, to be paid at the rate of $100 a month over 25 years, without interest. The guy died 12 years AFTER he got out of the pokey. at age 97. So tell me again, how is it he was :hounded" him an early grave?— April 15, 2012 8:44 a.m.
Joe Wieland Gets Major League Lesson
Actually, Kershaw didn't beat Volquez on opening day. Kershaw had the flu and only went 3, holding the Padres scoreless. Josh Lindblom got the win. If Volquez wants a little revenge for that outing, perhaps he should start with a look in the mirror. Four BB and a couple of WPs didn't help and neither did the two Es in the fifth. There is no victory in the absence of excellence.— April 15, 2012 8:29 a.m.