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In Assessing Chargers Options, Do Cost Comparisons
Let's see now. Who was it that said of their trip to Cowboys Stadium "I never pay for my tickets. I am always a guest." ? Why that would be from zeus, yesterday. Who bragged that "I have both build stadia and looked at projects that never made it beyond paper" and told us exactly how much they cost with no data to back it up? Why again that would be zeus. Who has been challenged to back up their statements on stadium costs and has yet to do so? Still that would be zeus. Who has yet to provide any factual information to refute the information I have give? Once again, it is zeus. Who has attempted to spin the conversation in a different direction, such as from FB and soccer stadiums in the US to European stadiums, when presented with data contradicting his claim? As always, that would be zeus I never said I new anything about the "soccer Business". Quite the opposite in fact. I said the only time I follow it is WC and Olympics. I did take the time to visit the sites of several soccer teams to garner information about their stadiums. There are also a couple of very good websites that provide a list of and information about every current and every under construction sports stadium in the world. It was very interesting. For example, I found info on an open air volleyball only stadium in Spain that seats only 5k, yet cost $17 million. Based on your response, it appears I was correct in my assessment of you being from Europe. Contrary to what you say, I have not attacked you personally, except for calling you a troll, which is a matter of interpretation. That is unless of course, you consider, whether correct or not, being from Europe an attack. My wife is French and I'm pretty certain she would not consider that any more of an insult that she would being referred to as am American, which is what almost everyone assumes unless they hear her speaking French. Yet apparently you take it personally, I wonder why that is. Really, the only thing I've done is refute some of your statements with actual data, challenge you to do the same, voice a differing opinion and state the obvious that you have a high opinion of yourself. Yet you on the other hand decided to make it personal. One of the first rules in debate is not to make your attacks personal. Personal means emotional and when you get emotional instead of passionate, you've already lost the debate. We do agree on one thing: we don't care about each others opinion. Nice thing about this whole internet thing. Anybody can go anyplace and shoot of their mouth without providing any facts to back it and remain totally anonymous in doing so. Kind of like some republicans I've heard. LOL I just like to provide some actual factual info sometimes.— May 26, 2011 6:54 p.m.
In Assessing Chargers Options, Do Cost Comparisons
Yes and no on the PSL's. Remember the city of Oakland and Alameda County ran the PSL program, not the Raiders; all of the money went to them. The original agreement was for 10 yrs. At one time that had probably 25k license holder but by 2005 I think less than half of the season ticket holders bought PSL's, so when they original term expired 5 yrs ago, they didn't renew it and as part of the settlement for the lawsuit Davis had against the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum Authority , the Raiders took control of all of the ticketing and marketing— May 26, 2011 1:26 p.m.
The Chirp of Birds, the Buzz of Bikes From the Pala Raceway
You may have intended to respond to surfpuppy619, buy you'll notice your comment is not indented under his post as mine is to yours, it's under my comment. Really makes no difference, just trying to add info to the discussion.— May 26, 2011 12:55 p.m.
In Assessing Chargers Options, Do Cost Comparisons
It may be ridiculous and absurd, but 19 NFL teams have built new stadiums in the last 15 yrs and very few if any utilize their stadium for only 30 hours per year. And it's just not in the US. There are probably 3 dozen soccer stadiums being built or recently completed in Europe. And these are not small stadiums. They range in capacity from 25k to 80k with most of them being at least 50k in capacity. As far as I have been able to find, none of these are "$2,000 per seat" stadium. Many of them are $150 million or more. And it's not only ball sports. A few years ago Spain built a new tennis complex that seats about 18k and spent over $200 million to do it. That's over $11k per seat, btw, more than all but 2 American football stadiums.— May 26, 2011 12:52 p.m.
The Chirp of Birds, the Buzz of Bikes From the Pala Raceway
Let me correct you on a couple thing. As I said above. Indian Gaming Regulatory Act was enacted as a Federal law. And ANY Federal can be changed, though it's highly unlikely. SCOTUS did not rule that the Indians had a constitutional right for gambling. What it did was reaffirm tribal sovereignty. The case was California v. Cabazon Band of Mission Indians. I know it fairly well. My parents had moved to PS by that time and on occasion made their way to the casino so my dad could play a little poker. The state sued, arguing that the bingo and poker games violated state law and wanted the Court to recognize the States authority to regulate gambling on reservations. The Cabazon band argued that its status as a sovereign government prevented state interference in its affairs. The court found because California permitted gambling, its laws regulated gambling, rather than prohibiting it, so the state could not use its gambling laws to regulate the tribe's gaming operations. About 10 yrs ago SCOUTS ruled that Indian Casinos had to pay both federal wagering excise and occupational taxes. but in the treaties the government entered into with the Native Americans, they agreed any the federal government can't tax tribal government revenues and commercial enterprises established on the reservations would not be taxed. Their Sovereign status exempts them from paying state income tax if they live and work on the reservation, but they still must pay federal income tax. Every welfare check, Social Security check, or a retirement check issued to a Native American has all of the usual taxes taken from it. Every time they pull into a gas station, grocery store or department store, they pay a sales tax. If they purchase these items off of the reservation the taxes they pay goes to that particular community, not back to the reservation the live on. Tribal members who don't live on a reservation pay all the same taxes as everyone else— May 26, 2011 12:20 p.m.
In Assessing Chargers Options, Do Cost Comparisons
Don Bauder, you are correct that there are many reasonably price soccer stadiums in Europe. But you also have to understand that UEFA categorizes the stadiums. Some are required to have as little as 200 seats. Even an elite stadium is required to have less than 10k seats. I would also point out that when it comes to the League Finals, these stadiums see no action. That's when they go to the big boys. This year it's at Wembley. Wembley holds about 90k and cost a mere $1.5 billion(that's $16666 per seat for those counting) Next year it's in Germany in a stadium that seats about 70K and only cost about $1/2 billion. Just like in the U.S. there is no hard and fast rule about how much a stadium costs. It depends om what you want or what you can afford. For example, Man U, the most valuable sports franchise in the world, plays in a stadium that cost only £90,000 to build. Of course, that was in 1909. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. They have also spent somewhere between $25-$35 millon in renovations and expansions since the early '90. It's no different than in the U.S. You can find inexpensive stadiums, relatively speaking. But when you get to the big leagues the biggest and best teams want the biggest and best stadiums.— May 26, 2011 11:33 a.m.
In Assessing Chargers Options, Do Cost Comparisons
"The very idea that the Chargers can dictate terms here is beyond laughable. It's absurd to even talk about it. The only entity capable of laying down terms is the city. Anyone who tells you otherwise is perhaps not a good practitioner of the negotiation process." As evidenced by the past deals both the Chargers and Padres have gotten, obviously the city of San Diego doesn't dictate the terms That's also clearly evident by the cities financial condition.— May 26, 2011 11:05 a.m.
In Assessing Chargers Options, Do Cost Comparisons
surfpuppy619, not saying cowboys Stadium isn't over the top. It is. We've been there a hand full of time and it's a great experience. Our friends have a suite and it's over the top, first class all the way. But I'll also say I have enjoyed foot ball just as much watching UCLA in the Rose Bowl or the 49er's at the Stick. FYi, about 75% of the new NFL stadiums bult since 1995 have cost less than $500 million and half of those have cost less than $300 million.— May 26, 2011 11:02 a.m.
In Assessing Chargers Options, Do Cost Comparisons
And which of those European countries are you a native of, zeus? Because you are clearly not from the U.S. Your syntax and grammar help spell that out pretty clearly. We are talking about football and soccer in the U.S. not Europe, so what you can find in Europe is irrelevant. That said, I would say name a "state-of-the art stadia Germany, England, Europe" that was built in the last 10 yrs at a total finishe cost of only $2k per seat. As I said, we are talking about stadiums in the U.S. There have been 19 new football stadiums built in the last 15 yrs. Only ONE cost in the range you gave. The two most extravagant are Cowboys Stadium and the new Meadowlands Stadium. But the rest cost considerably less that you figure, most less than half that figure. I don't know much of soccer stadiums as I,m only a fan during WC and the Olympics, but I can tell you that the newest soccer stadium opens in KC next month. It seats 18,500 and cost about $150 million. That's over $8k per seat, 4times your purported "cost" of a soccer stadium. You're the one who made the statement of what these stadiums cost with no qualifcations as to amenities. you can call them BS overinflated US numbers, but they are what they are.Some are higher, most are quite lower. Like it don't like it, I don;t care. the facts are the facts. If you want to believe that the Chargers don't have any option to move, feel free. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Obviously from choosing a name like zeus, you have a pretty high opinion of yours. Not all of us share that opinion.— May 26, 2011 10:52 a.m.
The Chirp of Birds, the Buzz of Bikes From the Pala Raceway
The Indian Gaming act, I forget the whole name, is a Federal law. It's been close to 40 yrs since I took a government class, but if I remember right, short of the Supreme Court ruling the law as unconstitutional or an Executive Order, the only way to change it is to write new legislation making parts of the old law null and void. It would still have to go thru the House and Senate and then to the President. And you are correct, it will never happen. I think if you did a little research, you'd be suprized. I believe it was last year that I read Riverside and SD counties both had the same amount of casinos. I think Pechanga is still the largest in the state. The counties in NorCal are alot smaller, but i think from Marin up to Mendicino, there are probably as many casinos as in SD or Riv. counties. More counties but a smaller geographical area. We have been to what is supposed to be the second largest casino in the world. It's an Indian Casino in Ct. about halfway between Boston and NYC. It's supposedly more profitable than any casino in Vegas or AC.— May 25, 2011 11:44 p.m.