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The San Diego Pot and Coke Connection at work

Monaghan, I know you don't like to let facts get in your way, but do you even know why Marijuana is illegal? You ought to look up the National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse (known as the Shafer Commission), whose members were appointed by Nixon in 1972 with the express purpose of permanently making marijuana a schedule 1 drug and outlawing it. A funny thing happened to the commission when they researched the issue; They ended up arguing for legalization instead, and found that many of the stereotypes (some repeated by you) are just not true. Nixon denounced his own report, and led a concerted effort to trash it several months before it came out. He then ignored it and got marijuana banned in spite of his own report. It is all in the Nixon tapes, and you can read the report here: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/studi… Some findings by Nixon's own hand-picked commissioners included: Scientific evidence has clearly demonstrated that marihuana is not a narcotic drug, and the law should properly reflect this fact. Congress so recognized in the Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970, as did The Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws in the Uniform Controlled Substances Law. ... [T]he criminal law is too harsh a tool to apply to personal possession even in the effort to discourage use. It implies an overwhelming indictment of the behavior which we believe is not appropriate. The actual and potential harm of use of the drug is not great enough to justify intrusion by the criminal law into private behavior, a step which our society takes only 'with the greatest reluctance. ... We have carefully analyzed the interrelationship between marihuana the drug, marihuana use as a behavior, and marihuana as a social problem. Recognizing the extensive degree of misinformation about marihuana as a drug, we have tried to demythologize it. Viewing the use of marihuana in its wider social context, we have tried to desymbolize it. Considering the range of social concerns in contemporary America, marihuana does not, in our considered judgment, rank very high. We would deemphasize marihuana as a problem. The existing social and legal policy is out of proportion to the individual and social harm engendered by the use of the drug. To replace it, we have attempted to design a suitable social policy, which we believe is fair, cautious and attuned to the social realities of our time.
— May 5, 2009 12:08 a.m.

The San Diego Pot and Coke Connection at work

SurfPuppy619, Don't worry, my skin is not that thin. I just occasionally like to point out when somebody has gone off base in the off chance they think they are still making valid points. I agree that alcohol is big problem, but I disagree that legalizing marijuana would add to the overall problem. I think there is a relatively finite market for recreational drugs, so that legal marijuana would poach from the existing sources, namely illegal drugs and alcohol. If I thought for a moment that legal marijuana would significantly add to the user base, I wouldn't be in favor of it. What would most likely happen, however, is that existing light users of alcohol may become light users of marijuana or switch between the two, and current heavy users of alcohol and illegal marijuana would probably continue to be heavy users of one or the other (hopefully with better interdiction and treatment programs due to increased taxes). From everything I have read, the total number of addictive personalities prone to problems would not change, but treatment should improve, yielding a net gain in the overall problem at a substantially reduced cost with a dramatic decrease in crime (especially gang violence). Also from what I have read, if you are going to piss your life away, their is less negative impact on society if you do it smoking marijuana than by drinking. I'm basing my views on cold hard economic realities, which can be difficult for some people because it doesn't take into account anybody's particular situation. Nobody wants their family member to become an addict and want somebody or something to blame if it happens, but the cold hard reality is that a certain number of people will become addicted to something no matter what we do. We deny marijuana and kids are sniffing glue and aerosols, using cough syrup, lots of alcohol (of course) and making crystal meth. Is that really any better? Wouldn't you rather have some quality and dosage control along with a regulated supply line of legitimate storefronts to keep it away from kids (like alcohol)? I know you disagree, but that is where I am coming from.
— May 1, 2009 3 p.m.

The San Diego Pot and Coke Connection at work

Monoaghan: "None of the high-minded arguments about the failure of the "war on drugs" or the rationales for "legalization" address the carnage that occurs in families with addicts or to the society that has to manage the anti-social fallout (crime and illness) that comes with any addictive drug-use." Patently false for two reasons: First, using "high-minded" as a dismissive of an opposing argument is meaningless rhetoric. The arguments in favor of the war on drugs are every bit as "high-minded", plus have the added disadvantage of having been tried in practice where they have failed miserably, just as they did during prohibition. Second, I (and most arguments in favor of legalization) directly and comprehensively DO address the "carnage" and "anti-social fallout". A key component of my rationale for legalizing certain recreational drugs is so that they can be strictly regulated with tough laws and enforcement to prevent use by minors, along with education programs and rehab programs. That combined with removing the profit motive for violent smugglers and gangs would allow us to attack drug use the same way we do alocohol and tobacco. While there are alcoholics and those addicted to cigarettes, the amount of crime to support those habits is comparatively very low while the amount of discouraging education and availability of rehab programs is very high. Would you rather have young adults stealing cars to support an illegal meth habit, or legally buying marijuana at a price they could afford by bagging groceries? I imagine you would prefer neither (so would I), but the insistance of the "neither" argument has resulted in a meth explosion in the central valley and the highest stolen car rates in the nation. My fundamental position is that a certain number of people are predisposed to addiction and will be susceptible to drug problems, whether they be legal (caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, prescription drugs or over the counter) or illegal. Aguably the total number of people with addictions is not going to change if you legalize marijuana and cocaine, but what you WILL do is offer an alternative to crack, crystal meth, heroin and other truly devastating drugs while simultaneously dramatically decreasing violent crime and increasing funding for education and rehab programs. From your rhetoric I have to assume you are currently out marching for a return to prohibition? That was a disaster. Have you bothered to stop and figure out why? Have you bothered to ask yourself why alcohol is now the only allowed recreational drug? (hint: there are two very major industries that have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo: Pharmaceutical and alcohol).
— May 1, 2009 8:38 a.m.

The San Diego Pot and Coke Connection at work

JW said: "Another ridiculous premise. The Mexican Government has been corrupt for decades. It’s too the point where the weight of its corruptive behaviors are unsustainable and subject to collapse. The cartels are filling a void. Your argument is we should follow by allowing our own people to use the product supplied by the cartels because you want to have an open supply route." Who argued that the Mexican central government is not corrupt? I personally prefer a central government to drug cartels running the border, but maybe that is just me. You also appear to completely miss the point for legalization. I don't want to "use product supplied by the cartels", I want to bypass the cartels with a legal product (grown in America is just fine) that removes the profit and smuggling incentives for cartels to be involved in the first place. JW said: "If all you really want is to get high, join Fred in one of those free thinking European bastions, no one is restraining you from leaving. You wouldn't last a year before you realized they have little, if anything to make your life satisfying. But your just a coward, your answer is to bring down the standards here." This is a rather pathetic personal attack that completely ignores all facts and even what you presumably already read in my prior posts. To wit; I don't use drugs and I don't have any desire to use drugs, either here or in some foreign country with a prostitute. I don't want my children to drink alcohol or use marijuana, just as I don't want them to become addicted to caffeine, cough syrup or ephedrine. I have read and believe studies showing that a certain percentage of the population will have addiction issues and that marijuana is no worse than alcohol, so that aside costing us more than we can afford, the "war on drugs" has no possibility of success as long as alternatives (such as alcohol) are available. Your own allusion to current addiction problems clearly demonstrates that the "war on drugs" has not prevented people from becoming addicts. You have zero evidence to support your contention that legalizing marijuana will increase the number or severity of drug addicts, yet you are blindly willing to throw billions of dollars annually at the problem and fund a well armed criminal cartel with the excessive profits from illegal drugs. Please refrain from your baseless personal attacks and spend more time supporting your baseless opinions with some facts.
— April 28, 2009 7:56 p.m.

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