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He Got A Nobel Why?
refried: "...responded that it might not be fair to accuse Obama of being immoral or unethical for accepting the award," Actually, I just asked why one would accuse him of being either, period. It wasn't clear, and still isn't. refried: "morality and ethincs are not green or red lights. Rather, they are degrees of subjective perception." As long as we are staying with generalities, I would respond that morality and ethics should be a little more based on subjective perception than they actually are. We are as a society forced to live with a creed that is largely informed by Christian morality and ethics, a religion to which I do not myself subscribe, as it happens. I am all for as clear a separation of church and state as possible, and as many personal liberties with which we can reasonably trust ourselves. However, we have to agree on ethical codes we can live by, so everyone knows the rules, and knows that it is not ok to trespass upon others' rights to live, be happy, and possess things. If we didn't have any codes of what is right or wrong, chaos would ensue. There are many people whose interests lie solely in trespass of others. As far as the reality you propose as the truth, sure--it may be--hence a fair amount of political apathy on both our parts--even more on mine, because I have not taken as much time to inform myself as you likely have, refried. But if you chose to talk about a particular bill, and how unethical Obama was for trying to pass it, I'd listen and learn :)— October 9, 2009 8:20 p.m.
So What Do U Think He/She's Talking About
YES! We are so going to have to look into that! I have a lot going on this particular weekend, and have to try and get the energy together to visit some people out of town, but let's do it. I have taken a few dance classes, and a few lessons with the "man," but it's been quite a while...— October 9, 2009 7:45 p.m.
He Got A Nobel Why?
#28: refried: "SD, I don't have much to add, other than "moral" and "ethical" aren't yes or no attributes. In other words, morals and ethics deserve gages with needles rather than simple indicator lights." refried, I don't get your metaphor. What are the needles and gauges, and what are the indicator lights--beyond a generalized belief that politicians tend to screw the public with promises they can't or don't keep? refried: "Politicians will never impress me, and I don't believe a single word out of their mouths, no matter which ideology they pretend to represent." If we stop here, and say that as Derrida would say, every thing is 'always already' predetermined, what hope do we have at any level to effect changes in our society and political system, from grassroots to the larger monied power structures that DO seem to predetermine outcomes? I also find it interesting that you guys focus so narrowly on Obama as a figure of corruption, rather than follow the money to the corporations and power players pulling strings behind all political figures, who tend to reside in their pockets. Or did you just stop there, and are tired of such discussion? I'm looking for information, and what better place than my friends? If you say politics are better not discussed among friends, then to me that is an indicator that we're going in the wrong direction as a society. Isn’t it? I used to sit and listen to French people relish political discussion at the outdoor cafes, and they would grin, slap each others’ backs, and buy each other beers after arguing all kinds of things. Why can’t we do this? re: #29: "#Nan, you're right, these are subjects that probably shouldn't be discussed." But fishikins, you posted a blog that seemed to invite it. Why post such serious indictments about a man's character, then decide that it shouldn't be discussed? It really honestly surprises me that you'd do this in just the way someone else on this site tends to--because I find you to be a thoughtful and caring sea creature otherwise. Nan in #29: "...good faith who come together with the idea of dialogue to create peace instead of derision" I totally agree, and am still scratching my head here. Inform me, people, if you can-- beyond facile cynicism and generalities. :)— October 9, 2009 7:38 p.m.
He Got A Nobel Why?
re: #24: "Yes,pompous. Everytime I turn around it's Obama-this and Obama-that. He and only he can put a stop to it but that's not what he wants. He LOVES the attention he recieves." Pete, that is so weak--just mudslinging in no direction. He is the PRESIDENT, of course you are going to hear 'Obama this,' and 'Obama that'--nightly, on all channels. Happily, a free society can talk about it. The first sign of a con man is a great communicator? Conversely, the sign of a great communicator is patience, and an open mind. He has so far shown both. Give us something to discuss, dear :) re: #26: Cuddlefish: "Um, so are you trying to tell me that he didn't know that it was going to be impossible to close Gitmo on the first day??? Who's kidding who here???" Can I ask you: What are the problems with closing Gitmo, and why the delays, exactly? I need to be informed better on this before I adopt an opinion--I'm not baiting you at all. I loathe making an opinion based on sound bites and political punditry. Does anyone have anything more to say on Gitmo and potential reasons for the delay? Politics 101, as I remember it (and I did not progress beyond 101): All candidates make promises. It is expected that they will make promises based on a platform that is easily identifiable by the general public, who then may feel informed enough to vote for a platform of choice. If a politician campaigned upon too many conditionals, s/he would be seen as undecided, weak, and a risk to public policy making. So I think we can agree that politicians have no choice in this matter--the best they can do at that stage of the game is to make promises that correspond to their political ambitions and personal ideologies--despite the insane pressures of their spin doctors, handlers, and advisors-- and then initiate what changes they can fight through both Houses. Right? So what's the point beyond this--because this is how it works on a basic level?— October 9, 2009 7:37 p.m.
So What Do U Think He/She's Talking About
...and something we've learned from the experiences of Mead and other cultural anthropologists is that "a--" and "--pologist" is a big part of the job :) You can't please all of the people all of the time, but with careful steps taken such as you describe, AND a willingness to examine one's own motives and prejudgements in learning about another culture, you will have better, more honest communication--and success :)— October 9, 2009 7:06 p.m.
Plug In, Plump Up
"There's just something about the Yaris and Prius that strike me as wrong." Have you ever ridden in or driven a Prius, Pete? It is pretty fun. There are all kinds of features to make you a better driver, and it's pretty roomy for a regular-sized sedan.— October 9, 2009 7:01 p.m.
The List Blog—Sound your Barbaric Yawp:
LPR, it is going to take me a while to get through your list, and to make my way through the forest of music links posted by AG, Pete, and russl. I'd just like to thank ALL of you who contributed lists for making my life just that much richer with your recipes, music, philosophies, and life experiences. I learn so much from you people! xoxosox SD— October 9, 2009 6:59 p.m.
So What Do U Think He/She's Talking About
Nan: "willingness to verbally adhere to the concept of the whole world of humans needing to view themselves as citizens of the world instead of just easy to snipe at nationalities i think Obama's started a new view..." I think Nan has some great points. Rhetoric counts for quite a bit still in our world, and in order to bring people on board with a plan, it takes a lot of talk. A willingness to verbally adhere to concepts of political and social inclusion, and to campaign to change citizens' global views--that is a huge start toward a peace process that actually has a shot at working...— October 9, 2009 6:31 p.m.
He Got A Nobel Why?
Pompous? You mean because he is educated and articulate? Isn't that the kind of representation you want from a lawyer or leader of your free nation alike, Pete? And as Cuddlefish remarks: He is apparently not about doing the "right" thing; he is "immoral" and "unethical." I'm still waiting to hear this evidence--these are strong indictments, and so far we have a link to an SNL sketch and some vague rhetoric. Perhaps refried you have some further ideas?— October 9, 2009 6:24 p.m.
He Got A Nobel Why?
Cuddle: "If Obama weren't the ambitious, egotistical guy he is" I'm curious as to where you get this characterization of Obama--can you elaborate? Ambitious? Sure--you best be ambitious if you are a politician. Egotisticial? In what sense? Besides the usual, unfortunately very American political necessity to plan way too much of your time in administration around campaigns and image control, I have seen no evidence that he is particularly in this for self-promotion, and have seen quite a bit of evidence that he is interested in world peace. Even small linguistic and symbolic gestures mean quite a bit to the Middle East peace process, and he has no problem making them, as well as treating all parties with respect, repairing quite a bit of damage caused to relations by the previous administration. But you have a different point of view, and I'm sure there is solid reasoning-- I am totally open to hearing your evidence, Fishikins, so bring it on. :)— October 9, 2009 6:10 p.m.