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"This is Steve Reed with the DEA," said the man on the phone.

“You called the DEA several months ago about a possible irrigation line you found in Cuyamaca State Park,” he continued. “I have a Post-it note on my bulletin board with your phone number.”

The growers’ breakfast was still cooking via a small fire under a flat rock that served as a griddle for tortillas and beans.

“Ah, yeah, I did call that in,” I hesitantly confirmed.

“What do you think it is?” pressed Agent Reed.

“Well, it was an irrigation tube about one inch in diameter, buried in the pine straw and way off the main trail.”

I thought about the spring day my two hiking buddies and I were off-trail, crashing through dense thickets of tangled brush. It was growing dark, and the three of us had gotten separated. I stopped to rest and happened to look down and I saw a plastic pipe. I wondered why an irrigation tube would be way out there.

Another rope held strips of freshly killed deer meat.

To the agent I said, “I followed the black pipe for about 20 feet before it disappeared into a thicket. At first I thought the park rangers were watering trees or something, but I wised up when I saw how well hidden it was. I hooked up with my buddies, and we returned to check out the hose before we headed back out to the main trail.”

The gun's plastic sheath lay on the ground, along with an open box of 12-gauge double-ought buckshot shells.

“Can you tell me how to get there?” Agent Reed asked. “We recently had a bust at Cuyamaca, and I’m trying to find out if it’s the same location.”

I’d read about that bust in the Union-Tribune, one of the top five drug busts in San Diego County, a marijuana field with a street value of $300 million.

The weed was trimmed here, as evidenced by half a dozen petite scissors hanging from a branch.

“No, it was too remote, real thick brush,” I said, “and it was getting dark when we left. But I think I could find it again.”

“That would be great.”

“When do you want me to look for it?”


“Tomorrow?” My brain whirled with the logistics of a deep-brush penetration on such short notice. “Would it be all right if I brought my buddies along?”

“Sure,” said Steve. “Call me if you find anything.”

I sat in my oversized La-Z-Boy, trying to sort out what had just transpired, and what was expected. I was going to assist the DEA with looking for pot in the bowels of Cuyamaca park. What, exactly, had I volunteered to do?

My hiking pals and I have nicknames we use when embarking on deep-woods diving. One friend is Bull, the other Shark. I’m Goat. I gave my friends a call.

Bull said, “I’ll have my gear packed tonight.”

Shark said, “Hell, yeah, bro, frickin’ frickin’ bro bro bro! I’ll be packin’, bro! I’ll bring MREs [meals ready to eat] for all of us.” Shark was the only one of us with military service.

When the Princess got home, I switched gears from, “Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead” to a more nuanced, “This is a civic duty, honey.”

Before the sun had risen above the mountains east of Santa Ysabel, Shark, Bull, and I were packed into my Dodge Ram pickup, our full packs bouncing in the open bed as we drove to Cuyamaca Rancho State Park. Arriving before the park kiosk opened, we self-registered and geared up.

Shark handed out the military MREs encased in brown plastic. “Bro, these are great! Twenty-five-hundred calories each. This is what the SEALs eat on special ops.”

Bull pulled a megaphone from his pack to insert the MRE.

Shark asked, “What’s that for, bro?”

“In case we run into any dopers,” Bull said.

We stepped off onto a well-groomed trail. Our boots crunching dirt made a muffled sound. High-pitched bird calls emanated from the dead pine treetops, announcing us as intruders. After a half mile, the trail gently dropped to a creek bed. Clear water gurgled between white-barked mountain lilac saplings and tall weeds choked with poison oak.

“This is it,” I said hesitantly, not quite trusting my recollection.

“You sure?” said Bull.

“It must be. I remember this creek.”

“Let’s go,” whispered Shark, not wanting to be seen out on the groomed trail.

We headed uphill into heavy brush, looking for a deer skull we’d found on the previous trip; we hoped to use it as a location marker. Inevitably, we parted ways, as each man chose his own brush-choked maze.

For the next half hour, we tried in vain to penetrate the green wall, finding no passage short of a belly crawl into the labyrinth. We retreated back to the trail. We were breathing deeply from our failed efforts, our camouflage outfits embedded with twigs and leaves.

I apologized for the energy and time lost. “I could have sworn we came out just before a creek last time.”

“We’ll never get through that mess,” Bull said. “Let’s keep going on the trail.”

A few minutes later, we felt the cooler, moist air of another brook ahead. We crossed the water and ascended the left bank. The brush here was patchy, with gaps between clumps. Shark motioned with military-style hand signals that he’d found the deer skull; we knew it was the same one by a puncture wound below its right eye, probably a cougar kill.

With renewed resolve, we now became human pinballs, bouncing off impassable bumpers of brush into narrow passes that ejected us finally onto a grassy hillside. The buckwheat-covered slope ran along the same creek we’d crossed earlier. The creek was choked with thickets and blackened trunks of oak and white fir, the dead titans mutely testifying to the devastating Cedar Creek fire.

“Man, I smell a skunk,” I whispered to Shark.

“I smell it, too. Frick, it has to be close, bro.”

It dawned on us simultaneously — it might not be a skunk. Shark halted. He pulled out his camo binoculars, glassing the wall of emerald foliage below. “Goat, take a look there, bro.” He handed me the binoculars. I swung the glasses in the general direction of the creek. “Do you frickin’ see it?” Shark said. “Between the two trees, 30 yards into the brush, bro.”

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Facebook Feb. 8, 2012 @ 2:37 p.m.

Stephanie T. says: I visited the Redwoods back in the '80s and the park ranger handed us a cautionary pamphlet about what to do if you stumble into a pot field. One thing I remember was, "You will probably be under surveillance and armed men may be about to head your way. Raise your arms and go back the way you came, repeating loudly, I DIDN'T MEAN TO DO THIS AND I'M LEAVING RIGHT NOW." Not kidding.


Ponzi Feb. 8, 2012 @ 8:46 p.m.

The same situation exists in Hawaii. On Maui and the Big Island. If you take a drive across the islands, you should not venture very far into the brush because there are pot farms with trip wires and ground sensors.

Our countries laws, the ancient federal “reefer madness” mentality is endangering peaceful citizens, punishing medical cannabis patients and basically enriching the cartels by letting them apply the law of risk and return at the expense of our nation. Our federal government is an enemy of the state.


Jay Allen Sanford Feb. 9, 2012 @ 1:16 a.m.

Solid story! I only intended to browse, but was drawn in by the first few 'graphs and ended up reading all the way thru. Almost sounds fun to play forest superhero - no matter what you think about Marijuana Inc, it's awful to see how growers destroy the grounds they work, and I'm all for cleaning them off public land, using any excuse or means that proves effective.

You Buddage Batmen may wanna consider taking on secret identities, tho, if you haven't already...


jackjohnson Feb. 9, 2012 @ 8:38 a.m.

You're a dick, Chuck Harper! Mind your own business.


Twister Feb. 9, 2012 @ 8:39 p.m.

Everybody should see the film, "Lonely Are the Brave." (Of course, most people don't GET it, get it? Get it. Try hard to get it. Please!)

All this misery over a weed. And, of course, money. But the big thing is THE CHASE. Just for the sheer lust of it! And damn the consequences. A species in decline. Generations fixated in adolescence. Advanced species, my ass.


Javajoe25 Feb. 9, 2012 @ 8:45 p.m.

Well, this is an amazing story.

I think these young men ought to get something for their perseverance, stealthy sleuthing, and adherence to the high ideals of American law and order! If it had not been for their assistance to our brave and dedicated law enforcement officers, this marijuana might have ended up in the pipe of some drug-crazed hippie, and the next thing you know, somebody's mother might have had her head chopped off! We all know, it's a doobie in one hand and a hypodermic in the other, and God knows where it might go from there!

Yessiree, these boys should at the very least be given Junior G-Man badges, and an official Smokey Bear baseball hat. I mean, consider: these brave young men had to push their way through thorn bushes! And walk through dirty, muddy, stream beds! Plus, they actually figured out that if you find water hoses running through the forest, chances are somebody is growing something! Would you have known that?

No, these guys assisted in bringing to justice, potentially ultra-violent criminals, who, aside from growing succulent buds, left actual litter on the ground! Why if it hadn't been for these stalwart souls, some Mexicans might have put food in their children's bellies, and thousands of others would be smoking the evil weed and smiling like fools, having a good time.

I think the Governor should be informed. In fact, I think the President ought to be informed! Recognition is totally in order!

God help us if we ever have to live in a world where brave men such as these are not around to protect us from the possibility of enjoying our lives and the horrible possibility of coming face to face with a stoned pot head!

Praise the Lord; stomp the ground; and raise high the rats-ass flag. Just to show how much we care. Shame on you, boys; shame on you. You ever consider Geo-caching?


David Dodd Feb. 9, 2012 @ 11:24 p.m.

I think this was a very good story, potentially any number of things could have gone wrong, and it was well-written in order to convey that message. For those who seem to be unhappy with the prospect of missing out on some good ganja and seem not at all pleased with any effort to yank the plants, consider it from another angle. Growing a nice herb garden in the privacy of your own back yard is far removed from invading a patch of Government-owned land (set aside for hikers and nature enthusiasts) and planting millions of dollars worth of a substance that the U.S. Government still considers illegal. If someone put me in charge of the world for about a day and a half, I would do everything I could to make all drugs legal, or at the very least decriminalize their use and possession (not because I think that drugs are a good idea, but because I don't think that any government should have the right to tell its people what they can or cannot ingest). However, the audacity of a criminal element to seize portions of local, State, or Federal land in order to profit from growing ANYTHING on that property should enrage even Cheech and Chong. It should make everyone a little bit angry. Your tax money is paying for some very bad people to line their pockets with cash in order to do a lot of harm to a lot of people in situations that have nothing at all to do with marijuana.


mercat1 Feb. 10, 2012 @ 3:59 p.m.

Interesting story. Just one question: How does wearing desert camouflage in the middle of a jungle supposed to keep you from being seen?


ODen Feb. 12, 2012 @ 12:14 p.m.

Easier to grow it here rather than making all those tunnels at the border!


jayrobn42 Feb. 12, 2012 @ 6:04 p.m.

Dear reader, I love your mag, not because its free but because it represents the common folk. I especially liked the article about the marijuana bust, but I gotta to say...

That weed may have been cartel, but chances are its not. There isnt enough money in marijuana anymore for gangsters to grow it. I say this because everyone and their mothers are growing, there is 16,000 plants alone growing indoors in every zip code. judging by the pics it wasn’t grown by pro’s. No one that knows jack about marijuana would not invest 16,000 plants and the time into such a crappy strain, especially on the side of a hill, in the open. The part where he said each top was worth 3,000, haha, that’s funny...try 200-300 bucks, tops! He also mentions that it is so big that someone will die for every bust...well, hear me out. Outdoor crops harvest once a year, by publishing this(if it is cartel) you are convincing them to modernized their tactics and move the grow op indoors, doin so would enable them to harvest up to 5 times a year, thus more people will die. Everything considered both the publisher and the writers intentions are questionable. Why do you think they never catch the guys?? Maybe because the grower is also the same person who claims to find it. That would explain a lot. Why would someone save money on seeds by growing a poor strain when it’s a garden of 16,000? when if they just spent 100 dollars more their crop would have been worth 100 times more. One more thing before I end this, Why is that guy wearing desert camo in the forest?? He might as well dressed as a clown.

I don’t the support the growers and their intentions, whatever they might have been in this article if what you published is accurate. In reality Im all for it in a responsible legal standpoint. You should print an article about the kids lifes that are saved from consuming marijuana edibles. Kids with autism take prescription drugs, these drugs side effects can cost them their lives. With a little edibles that all changes for the greater good regardless of our poor judgment and concept of marijuana’s natural integrity.. I support life, not these guys. The growers are guilty of littering, next time they should grow on their own property.


TerrieBest Feb. 12, 2012 @ 8:41 p.m.

Steve Reed is a bozo for sending a bunch of yahoos (with guns) to "check it out." How embarrassing for law enforcement.


jayrobn42 Feb. 12, 2012 @ 9:07 p.m.

I commented on this earlier... If someone wanted to grow a crop and want to claim they found it, they would make it stand out, 16,000 is in the ballpark(breakin records, convenient...if your lookin for an award). Think about it, they traveled as far as thier cell phones will take them. they are dressed as soldiers(to gain trust and sympathy), they said there was thick brush and was hard to get to. How do you think these profesional growers who has been " growing here for years" got thier harvest out of there???? Helicopter.

Dear Reader, please dont publish these good samaritans again(clown in desert gear) Marijuana is prescribed to patients and not for recreational use, recreation isn't digestible. Harbor side saves lives-


SurfPuppy619 Feb. 12, 2012 @ 10:44 p.m.

. I am the ex-husband of Luwain Ng, the woman who was victimized by the family court lawyer Patricia Gregory

Wow, that is a wild twist in this sad sorry story.

I feel BAD for your Ex-Luwain Ng, she got royally screwed, and then that low life Gregory had the nerve to say Ng ruined HER LIFE (Gregory)?????? What nerve.

I hope the judge takes Gregory's lack of remorse into consideration at her sentencing (I know the judge will).

Well, I have a feeling Gregory is going to go to prison. Might be "local prison" (county jail), but that is actually worse than regular prison.

I hope your Ex is fully compensated by the State Bar Recovery Fund.


Twister Feb. 12, 2012 @ 11:39 p.m.

Intelligence is a mixed blessing/curse. I, too, though no doubt not as smart as Ponzi, suffer from various physical and mental ailments that this weed helps, but will not buy from those who are in any way connected to the illicit drug trade. I could grow my own, but consider it irresponsible to put my spouse and friends in danger and inconvenience that jail would bring down upon me. I suffer from very painful arthritis, "panic attacks," pain from old injuries, and other painful signs of age that flesh is heir to, but I am forced to purchase DANGEROUS drugs that are ineffective, expensive, and a threat to my health and life, because they are anointed by the high-priests of medicine-as-business. One of the most PROFITABLE businesses there is.

Soak the sick.


PS: There may be better ways to spend your money than election campaigns. No decent person wants the job.


David Dodd Feb. 13, 2012 @ 2:34 a.m.

I very much respect the idea behind "medical" marijuana, but I truly think that people should sit back and think about this in terms of qualifying the use of any substance. I don't think that anyone should feel obligated to explain themselves in terms of WHY they choose to consume ANYTHING. It shouldn't matter if people take bong hits for no particular reason. I wouldn't recommend that type of a lifestyle, but who am I to tell you that you can't do it? Carrying that forward, who is government to tell you that you can't do it? In other words, how really free are human beings in 2012? Frankly, I'm baffled as to how any drug is controlled in a supposedly free country. But getting back to the original story, I'm totally against growing anything on land set aside by the government for hiking and nature and so on. That land belongs to the people, I don't much see this piece as an anti-marijuana story.


Ponzi Feb. 13, 2012 @ 7:49 a.m.

To Refried, Twister and Surf Puppy, thank you for your kind comments. I have enjoyed and respected all of your posts over the years. We don’t always agree, but the Reader would not be as fun as it is without regulars like you.


pickle131313 Feb. 13, 2012 @ 1:54 p.m.

Dear Reader,

I was pretty disgusted by last week’s feature article by Chuck Harper, “Citizen Pot Bust” about a bunch of wanna-be DEA douchebags playing jungle-commando in Cuyamaca for ostensibly no real reason other than the excitement of a “purpose” they discovered by accident. It was a Kipling-esque tale of how a group of friends who enjoy hiking stumble upon some pot fields by pure random chance and then thoughtlessly attribute some higher virtue and moral righteousness to the kind of crap my friends and I did when we were 11 years old and bored as hell on summer vacation.

Like a group of mindless, adrenaline-fueled robots, unhinged from any moral responsibility about the greater implications of their actions, they just glom onto the Drug War bandwagon as a practical excuse for painting their faces, dressing up in camo, and running around the forest on a snipe hunt with walkie-talkies and firearms. It was the perfect amalgam of “Stand By Me” and the “Just Say No” campaign…only more trite.

And if the anti-pot/pro-Drug War cause celebre wasn’t enough of a moral justification for their otherwise pointless excursions, they take it one step further with their environmentalist crusade, bemoaning the trash left behind by growers. This comes after describing in painstaking detail how exceedingly difficult it was for them to crawl and climb hand-over-fist to the most remote areas of the wild where these growers had been alone for years. Well, let’s give them a big hand for their hard-earned efforts to find a pile of sh*t in the middle of nowhere. I’ll sleep so much better tonight.

It was a fitting (and, I must admit, comforting) irony to learn that after all the sweat equity they gave to their new, beloved pals in the DEA, they didn’t get one penny in compensation for their efforts. With all the impotence of a middle-school principal, the DEA offered them nothing more than a colorful sash reading, “Hall Monitor” and these jackasses are foolish enough to wear it with pride. Meanwhile, on the playground, the rest of us are waiting to kick their f*cking teeth in.

Chuck, I hope you’re still out there somewhere in Cuyamaca, or Palomar, or Laguna, or Siberia for all I care, eating MRE’s and testing the batteries on your bullhorn waiting for the next Big Bust. But while you’re batting mosquitoes, sweating balls and fantasizing about the possibility of military accolades or a Guns and Ammo cover-shot, it might interest you to know that in the grander scheme of things, you are nothing more than the epitome of a “grunt” – a worthless, expendable drone to be dropped into the meat-grinder at the behest of any power-hungry thug to increase their political clout. There is nothing more un-American than you. If you truly want to serve your country, serve yourself to a mountain lion. You’ll be making the world a much better, safer place.

  • Michael La Jolla

David Dodd Feb. 13, 2012 @ 2:38 p.m.

Michael, I'm very curious, how would you have viewed this story if, say, rather than stumbling onto a marijuana grove on public land, the hikers had stumbled onto a large tomato growing operation? Or perhaps even a large encampment of migrants with no documentation confirming citizenship or any right to be in the U.S? It's an honest question, not a rebuttal of your comment, but I'm curious if you're notching the DEA on the same level as perhaps the Department of Agriculture or the Homeland Security Department.


Ponzi Feb. 13, 2012 @ 5:55 p.m.

Refried, I tend to see the problem two ways. I agree that no growing operations should be permitted on delicate, natural, public parklands. I do see that the problem would correct itself if the “war on drugs” didn’t include marijuana. If the Feds hysteria over pot wasn’t misplaced, people could grow their own at home or buy it from a legal source.

Democracy is about making compromises. The people of the state voted with legalize marijuana for medical use. There is an ample body of evidence that there are medical benefits from it. Even in the worst-case scenario, if more people smoked it, it would not create a major problem in society – but eliminate major problems that are caused by black marketing.

Individuals are free to make their own beer and wine in their garage. A substance that does far more harm and wrecks more lives than MJ. The Feds treat every problem as if it’s the same, instead of being creative, they use brute force and intimidation. They use their power to control the crops in other countries by threatening to cut off humanitarian support and other aid. If you see every problem as a nail, you always use a hammer. The Feds cannot think for the people anymore, just act like mindless robots in a cat and mouse game that will never see an end.


David Dodd Feb. 14, 2012 @ 12:58 a.m.

I very much agree in general with all of this. I guess my line - I mean we all draw philosophical lines, right? - is that I'm not prone to compromise when it comes to freedom. I don't have any issue with anyone using any drug, whether recreational or medicinal, even though I'm not prone at all toward medicating myself with anything other than booze. And I do that a lot more slowly and moderately than I allow my reputation to become tarnished by admitting to it.

I just have a difficult time saying, "Well, THIS drug is perfectly okay but THAT one should be outlawed."

We are responsible to ourselves more than anything. That's an awesome responsibility that I don't take lightly. And in return, presuming that all human beings value that responsibility as I do, all I want is the freedom to make these decisions on my own. If heroin was legal, I wouldn't use it. But I really do face that same decision regardless of its legality. I don't think that any of us need a government to decide that for us. And I reckon that's why I can't draw that line between one drug and another. I just think that freedom is absolute.


jayrobn42 Feb. 13, 2012 @ 4:55 p.m.

the government is growing and blaming it on the cartel. they trashed the place with litter(mexican hot suace and tortilla chips), any grower with a great location as that would take good care of the ground and soil. this is getting old. they dont want to leagalize marijuana cause it will lose its value, just like alot of other things, if its illeagal its priceless. Kinda like the fure in hollywood, it makes it more exclusive.


Duhbya Feb. 14, 2012 @ 1:24 p.m.

Is anyone else thinking that this article might be a work of fiction? Strikes me as being a little too "tongue-in-cheeky" in spots. Does the Reader check for veracity on stories like this?


Ponzi Feb. 14, 2012 @ 6:55 p.m.

Can a civilian you carry a loaded weapon in the state park? Or the nearby Cleveland National Forest?


Twister Feb. 15, 2012 @ 1:23 p.m.

Yes--in the open.

And, in the case of those very well trained in firearms, it's probably a good idea, on balance. The trouble is, almost no civilian is properly trained in firearms, and that is dangerous.

Even so, considering the huge number of guns that exist, the ratio of their misuse is surprisingly low.

This is an issue, much like MJ, that needs a dispassionate examination rather than uninformed, knee-jerk assumptions that make asses out of both extremes. But any reasoned examination of any issue will draw the ire of a huge population that has its mind made up.


Ponzi Feb. 16, 2012 @ 10:35 a.m.

Twister, thanks for the reply about the guns in the parks. I had marksmanship training in ROTC. I fired several variety of handguns and rifles, including M-16’s. Even though it was ROTC, they would take us to Camp Pendleton to fire M-16’s on the firing ranges. When I was younger I also used to fire guns in remote areas near Pine Valley. But for the past 20 years I have only fired guns inside indoor firing ranges.

I am out of touch with the laws. I thought that San Diego County banned the firing of weapons anywhere. So I have another question. There has been a controversy over the “open carry” where people in Pacific Beach were walking around with unloaded guns on their hips. I recall that a law proposed by Lori Saldana would end open carry. I’m too lazy to Google it right now, but my question is if it’s illegal to openly carry a loaded gun in the City of San Diego, why is it okay to do so in the state and national parks? Could someone carry a loaded gun in Torrey Pines State Park?


tomjohnston Feb. 21, 2012 @ 4:58 p.m.

A federal law enacted in 2010 allows for the carrying of firearms in any national park, provided that's in compliance with the firearms laws of the park's home state. The only regulations specific to use of weapons in a national forest is that you cannot discharge a weapon within 150 yards of any structure/development or occupied area, within or into a cave, across or on a road or body of water, or in any manner that endangers a person, that you can't use any tracer or incendiary ammunition and that you also comply with all State laws regarding the use of firearms. Remember, national parks and national forests are run by different depts.


SurfPuppy619 Feb. 21, 2012 @ 9:01 p.m.

. I recall that a law proposed by Lori Saldana would end open carry

Open carry has been banned/outlawed in CA, and this may in fact make for a lawsuit that will strike down these laws that ban open and concealed carry.

One of the arguments made by pro gun control and the courts banning concealed carry were that with the option of "open carry"-with ammo just a second away- was that there was no need for concealed carry.

Now that open carry has been banned that argument is moot, and could open the door for self defense of concealed carry.


SanDiegoHiker Feb. 21, 2012 @ 11:43 a.m.

It is NOT legal to carry a loaded firearm in a California State Park. I am aware of a hunter having his weapon confiscated in Cuyamaca State Park last fall. I do believe it is legal in the National Forest as NFS allows hunting.


Twister Feb. 15, 2012 @ 1:15 p.m.

As to growing MJ or anything else on public lands (or, for that matter, grazing animals on "leases") I'm against it. I'm also against turkeys turning turkeys out into public lands where they did not evolve, like Southern California. Such "uses" degrade and destroy ecosystems to the ultimate detriment of public benefit.

If MJ were legal, as Ponzi says, the price would crash and a lot of goons and other social parasites would be out of work. We are being conned, and have been conned ever since the first instance of concentration of power something like 10,000 years ago when Homo sap. first started enslaving plants and animals, including his brothers and sisters. This "domestication" process has reached a high pitch in the last several decades, but people are beginning to wake up to the con. Arab spring was just one example; the "Occupy" movement another.

The coming revolution can be velvet or violent; it's up to us.

I shall keep quoting Kenneth Boulding every time the occasion commands: "We have only two choices, really. We can have an 'I beat you down, you beat me down, I beat you down' society, or we can have an 'I lift you up, you lift me up, I lift you up society.'"


mercat1 Feb. 17, 2012 @ 6 a.m.

Thank you for that post, Mindy. I found it very informative.


knowitall Feb. 19, 2012 @ 7:46 a.m.

wearing desert camo in a jungle environment pretty much says it all about the intellect of these guys. the article just confirms it! i liked dressing up and playing "army" too! WHEN I WAS SIX! then i grew UP! still... i suppose it's a comforting substitute to go outside and "play" with your bullhorns, radios and guns when your OTHER "equipment" doesn't work so well any more! aw! poor mrs. shark, bull and goat!


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