Putting America Back To Work

"Why do the advocates of marijuana useage feel that they are above the law and feel that regulating the use of marijuana, just like the current regulation of tobacco is an off-limit topic?" You obviously have not talked with any of the leaders of the major reform organization, nor looked at their platforms. I am acquainted with every one of them an I can tell you that this statement is not true of any of them. They are All campaigning for reasonable regulations, like alcohol or tobacco. "I understand that marijuana appears to be less of a threat than other drugs, but we regulate the use of alcohol, tobacco, other drugs, including aspirin. I think that we could all agree that there should be reasonable restrictions as far as age and quantity restrictions, and also managing the availability of lab tested product with known composition. Just like other consumer products." You are confused. It is the prohibitionists who oppose that, not the legalizers. "This link leads to what I perceive to be a fairly balanced article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_i..." Perhaps. But what you overlooked is that the drug laws never had anything to do with health issues. If health issues were the real issue then there would be mandatory minimums on possession of cheeseburgers. Read the history of the laws I posted. "I would also hope that you would agree that the current system in place is being abused," You have absolutely no good evidence of that , simply beause medical records are private. But there is good research on that, compiled by a doctor, but it doesn't agree with you. Besides, how much justification does a doctor need to recommend a drug that is safer than aspirin? What busness is it of yours why someone takes it? " and is not helping the cause of those who want to take responsible steps to legalizing this, or any other product." Actually, it is. The opening up of the market is responsible for much of the movement toward legalization now. "It is an image thing. You need to get the bad apples out of medicinal product provider segment as a first step." Yeah, good luck on that mission, Don Quixote. As soon as you can work up a cheap portable meter that will accurately measure how much pain someone feels, then we are good to go. " I believe that bringing it out of the closet and imposing reasonable regulation is the way to go for now." I got news for you. You aren't arguing with the reform movement. You are singing their song. "As far as some of the personal attacks on my comments that were posted by wm97 (i.e. "Stupid idea"): it is practically impossible to debate with individuals that are so fanatical and driven by their cause, that unless you’re with totally with them, you’re against them." Tell you what. Learn to learn from people who have done far more research than you have. Read the links I posted.
— December 15, 2009 6:17 p.m.

Putting America Back To Work

"As far as some of the personal attacks on my comments that were posted by wm97 (i.e. "Stupid idea"): it is practically impossible to debate with individuals that are so fanatical and driven by their cause, that unless you’re with totally with them, you’re against them." Tell you what. I have already posted links to my web site, which happens to be the largest online collection of research on the history of marijuana regulation. I base my opinions on that, and I provided you with links where you could read up on what has and has not worked before. You said: "The purpose of a debate is to offer your case, and then have some offer evidence in support of their side." OK. I have offered mine, which was the basis of my opinion. Now let's see yours. Let's start with something simple, like your idea that you could reduce the hundreds of varieties of marijuana now available if the government produced only one variety and declared it to be the only one legal. As I read the history, there is no chance that would succeed. Would you care to show me some sterling examples of where that sort of thing actually worked? Face it, the reason you are pissed is because I said that you don't know anything about the subject (not that you were stupid -- different), and I was able to prove it. If that's not the case, then respond to the points I made.
— December 13, 2009 1:56 p.m.

Putting America Back To Work

Ok, some required reading for anyone who wants to offer an opinion. First, the short history of the marijuana laws at http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/whiteb1.h… This is funny and fascinating. Licit and Illicit Drugs at http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/c… The best overall review of the subject ever written. If you haven’t read this book, then you simply don’t know the subject. The Drug Hang-Up at http://druglibrary.org/special/king/dhu/dhumenu.h… This is another excellent history of the subject. Major Studies of Drugs and Drug Policy at http://druglibrary.org/schaffer This is a collection of the full text of every major government commission report on the drug laws from around the world over the last 100 years. They all reached similar conclusions. The drug laws were the product of ignorance and nonsense. In the US – which has driven worldwide drug prohibition for more than fifty years – the laws were the result of racism and lunacy so stupid that it just makes people laugh today. Marijuana was originally outlawed for two major reasons. The first was because “All Mexicans are crazy and marijuana is what makes them crazy.” The second was the fear that heroin addiction would lead to the use of marijuana – exactly the opposite of the modern “gateway” idea. Only two doctors testified before Congress for the Marihuana Tax Act of 1937. The representative of the American Medical Association testified that marijuana was not a dangerous drug and there was no reason for the law. See the full transcripts of the hearings for the MTA at http://druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/taxact/taxac… The only other doctor was Dr. James Munch. His sole claim to fame was that he had injected marijuana directly into the brains of 300 dogs, and two of them died. When they asked him what he concluded from this, he said he didn’t know. He also testified in court, under oath, that marijuana could make your fangs grow six inches long and drip with blood, and that it could turn you into a bat. Dr. Munch was the only doctor in the US who thought that marijuana should be illegal so he was appointed US Official Expert on marijuana, where he served for 25 years. That is just one example of the lunacy. There is far more than that in the history of these laws. Anyone who currently supports these laws simply hasn’t read the most basic research on the subject.
— December 12, 2009 4:54 p.m.

Putting America Back To Work

"(7) Now, once this is all done, and we have figured out how to do this (I know it sounds difficult, but this is a lot easier than the Healthcare debate going on right now)," Sad to say, but your real problem is that you actually don't know anything about the subject. Really. " you close down and prosecute all of these who are doing this illegally. Go after the Drug dealers, Smugglers, and the addicted." If you legalize it like beer, then the drug dealers and smugglers will take care of themselves. See our experience with Al Capone. As for the addicted, you aren't really talking about marijuana there. If you want to go after addiction problems, start with alcohol and tobacco. Those two drugs kill more people every year than all the people killed by all the illegal drugs combined in the last several decades. " Provide a diversion program to treat first time offenders (users). But throw the book at them if they are recidivists Look! More work/jobs for the police, courts, lawyers, and the prison systems. Huge fines mean more fire pits for the rest of us." Yeah, never mind that throwing the book at them the second time doesn't accomplish anything. Drug abuse problems are driven largely by anxiety-related issues so you propose throwing them in jail which will only worsen those issues. Stupid idea. But it would be a stupid idea for anothe reason, too. California is currently under Federal court order to release one-third of all prison inmates. You don't have the room to lock up all the violent criminals and now you want to make the prisons even bigger for repeat pot smokers. Like I said, you really don't have a clue what you are talking about, do you? "(8) Lastly, establish a hotline for the operators of these establishments to report fraud. Make them, and the prescribing physicians, liable for prescription abuse or prescription shoppers, with appropriate penalties for violators." Uuuuuh, yeah. Like the police have time to chase around after someone who purchased more marijuana than you thought they should. Just FYI, the US Government sends each of its patients six pounds per year. So "abuse" would mean that they would have to be purchasing something more than a half pound a month -- two ounces a week. Like I said, you have no clue what you are talking about. I will give you some references so you can come up to date.
— December 12, 2009 4:53 p.m.

Putting America Back To Work

" All of their members/customers must be positively identified and reported on a monthly basis (prescription / issue logs)." Sorry, you just went off the deep end again. Medical records are private by law. Not possible, and not a good idea, even if it was. Alcohol causes far more problems in society than all the illegal drugs combined. Are you proposing this routine for alcohol, too? "(5) Now, how do you get the legally produced drug to the legally operated business? The business has to provide a roster of authorized paying members." Sorry, that would be forbidden by medical privacy laws. Although we note your strong desire to have the government intrude in people's lives for no good purpose. " They get a ration, so many "shares" based on the number of members of the "collective". Secure private transport (armored vehicles). Put them to work, too." Sorry, there is already a system in place that works pretty well for deliveries and it doesn't require any of this. " I saw this when I visited Abu Dhabi, UAE." Yeah, like we want to remake our country into Muslin theocracy. " If you want liquor, you have to register for a permit. Then you call the local Spinney's market (like 7-11) and order your $3.50 bottle of Tanqueray. Then they have an armored car, with a security guard, deliver it to your residence. Very simple, and once again, put people to work, as well as establish a paper trail." Yeah, I can't imagine why that wouldn't work out here in the US. All we need is one more giant government agency to keep track of everyone who wants to drink a glass of wine. That ought to be an instant success. "6) Now, how do we avoid the temptation of robberies, etc?" 1) legalize it so the price goes down and there isn't so much temptation and; 2) let the free market take care of it. Anyone who lets themselves be robbed too many times isn't going to remain in business.
— December 12, 2009 4:52 p.m.

Putting America Back To Work

"3) Now, once you have this, you let the government grow it." Uuuuh, right. And expect the same results if the government had a monopoly on beer and only made one kind. " They already do this already, you know? The National Institutes of Health, through a subsidiary, has been growing marijuana for research purposes for almost 1/2 a century. Until 1992, they were providing "prescription strength" marijuana to patients who applied and were accepted into the program." No, actually, it isn't prescription strength. It is the stuff they get accidentally from what was originally intended as a hemp crop. If you talk to any of the people who actually receive this government stuff they will tell you that it is about as crappy as weed gets. (Which is just what you would expect from a government operation.) " California is blessed to have Lemoore, CA, a beautiful place, in the middle of nowhere. There are hundreds and thousands of acres of government owned cotton fields surrounding NAS Lemoore. Grow it there. If not, I am sure that there are huge industrial complexes that are empty and looking for tenants. Do it hydroponically. You may not see my ulterior motive here, but everything that I am talking about is also a job stimulus package to put the states and the population back to work." I am with you there. It would boost California farm production by about 50 percent at a time when the Central Valley is in big economic problems. It would be the biggest bonanza to hit California since the Gold Rush -- see http://MarijuanaBusinessNews.com But that is based on it becoming an industry just like wine or beer. Your plan wouldn't allow that. "(4) Now, on to those "Comfort Care Facilities". Regulate them. (Sorry, no more “Free Joint Sundays [with donation]”} Treat them like child molesters. Not near schools. Not near child care centers. Put them in a commercial area. License them. Business Licenses. Non-Profit Status. Department of Health Certifications. Police Permits. Fire Marshall inspections. The facility must be secure, with controlled access, surveillance systems, and silent alarm monitoring. Why should they be any different than any other legal business? " They shouldn't be any different than any other legal business. So why do you propose a lot of rules that would make them much more tightly regulated than liquor stores? "The owner and all workers must be background checked and fingerprinted." Like a liquor license. No problem there.
— December 12, 2009 4:51 p.m.

Putting America Back To Work

>(1) The first thing is, if we are going to prescribe >marijuana as a medicine, then treat it like a regulated drug. If that's what you want to do then put it in the proper category. Aspirin and Tylenol kill about 3,000 people per year, as opposed to none for marijuana. How much justification does a doctor need to recommend a drug that is safer than aspirin? "(2) Where would this marijuana come from? I think that it is obscene and a middle finger salute to have these current collectives running around offering Rainbow Blue or whatever else they dream up. It is not a candy store. I live down the street from what I perceive to be a drug den masquerading as a collective. The medical professionals and scientific community can get their heads together and decide what percentage of THC should be considered "adequate" to do whatever it is claimed that marijuana does (I know, increase appetite, etc). Then you genetically engineer a strain of cannabis that grows the same, every time. And you give it a name. Medical Marijuana, XX% potency. Lab certified." Sorry, that doesn't work. The patients themselves report that different strains have different effects and there is no earthly reason to require them to stick to one. Besides, that ship has already sailed. Marijuana is California's largest cash crop. And you think you are going to magically reduce it all to one strain? You are dreaming.
— December 12, 2009 4:51 p.m.