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Hoover landed on her feet. Twice. She married a Montecito multimillionaire, Ken Hunter, who spent $2 million on her defense. She was sentenced to ten years but spent only 30 months in prison. She got out because she supposedly provided evidence in the trial of a former J. David salesman. At that trial, Hoover tearfully admitted that she had lied in her trial when she said she had not thrown canceled checks in the fireplace and, crucially, had not knowingly invented false monthly returns for Dominelli to send investors.

After Hunter’s death, she married Eugene Fletcher of the illustrious Fletcher family and is once again living in luxury. “She should write a book on how to catch a man and get him to heel,” says Hugo-Martinez. Hoover/Hunter/Fletcher and her husband spend much time in Mexico but are frequently back in the San Diego area.

The final irony is that Schanes does not know if Dominelli paid any attention to the lectures that described Ponzi and his scheme. Dominelli seldom said a word in class. The truth may have gone to his grave.

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Don Bauder Nov. 9, 2009 @ 1:01 p.m.

Response to post #88: Send me an email at don.bauder@mac.com and we should be able to arrange your getting an autographed book. Best, Don Bauder

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SDaniels Nov. 5, 2009 @ 8:24 a.m.

Well, Ponzi?

Did you ever catch Dominelli 'studying' you from behind dark shades and low slung fedora? At the coffeeshop, perhaps? :)

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Visduh Nov. 5, 2009 @ 10:45 a.m.

Dominelli was a most improbable person to pull off such a scheme. He and Hoover were a wildly mismatched pair, or so it would have seemed. Part of the reason he got away with it was that he wasn't the usual oily, polished sort of promoter. He looked, walked, and talked like a dweeb. We will never know how much he knew about the details of Ponzi's scheme.

A more interesting question is if the architects of Social Security in the New Deal had studied Ponzi. That's the biggest Ponzi scheme of all. It might have worked better if either life expectancy stayed flat or declined, or the population kept growing at a rapid rate. Neither has been the case. In the late 1930's, FICA tax was actually collected during a time when there were no beneficiaries to speak of. That money was supposed to have been invested. Later on, any pretense of actuarial integrity was abandoned, and SS went on a pay-as-you-go basis. More recently, excess tax has been collected and "lent" to the Treasury. But when the funds are needed to pay benefits, the Treasury will have to either receive tax revenue or borrow to pay that debt. Yep, it's just a legal Ponzi scheme.

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Don Bauder Nov. 5, 2009 @ 1:33 p.m.

Response to post #1: I have seen many Ponzi schemes in covering business for 45 years. In some cases, the entrepreneur is trying to be honest from the outset, but the structure collapses and he tries to recoup by running a Ponzi, fervently hoping that some streak of luck will come along and bail him out. Some think Dominelli did not set out to run a Ponzi, but when he realized he couldn't succeed at what he was doing, he ran one to keep the money flowing in. That may be true, but Dominelli had a less-than-credible track record from almost the beginning. He had raised eyebrows in the community. Pioneer Mortgage is one that became a Ponzi after it collapsed. Instead of admitting to investors that the money had been lost, Gary Naiman reverted to a Ponzi. But hard money lending is a dubious business; it may work when real estate prices rise but it stops working in a hurry when they fall. Crooks in general, and particularly Ponzi schemers, live a fantasy life; they keep dreaming something will drop from heaven to rescue them. That was true of Dominelli and Hoover. They were living in a dream world, but that hardly made them innocent of crimes. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 5, 2009 @ 1:36 p.m.

Response to post #2: Early on, as I was sketching out Captain Money and the Golden Girl, I thought about including a chapter on Social Security being a Ponzi scheme. But it didn't really fit, and I ran out of room anyway. Best, Don Bauder

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SDaniels Nov. 5, 2009 @ 3:17 p.m.

Mr Bauder, how long did it take you to write this book? How did you plan out the chapters, and what was your writing schedule like?

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 5, 2009 @ 5:02 p.m.

A more interesting question is if the architects of Social Security in the New Deal had studied Ponzi. That's the biggest Ponzi scheme of all. It might have worked better if either life expectancy stayed flat or declined, or the population kept growing at a rapid rate. Neither has been the case. In the late 1930's, FICA tax was actually collected during a time when there were no beneficiaries to speak of.

Reminds me of the first person to receive SS, it was a woman who paid in $100 and took out thousands over her life span.

I read about 15, 20 years ago that the average person pays into SS for a 3 year pay out, but receives payments for 6 years-or twice what they should receive. If anything there is a much bigger spead today between what has gone in and what goes out.

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Fred Williams Nov. 5, 2009 @ 8:22 p.m.

George Mitrovich is still in San Diego, doing the same work he did for J. David.

Just like he was hired to give credibility and spread money around for the ponzi scheme, John Moores had George out as the "people's voice" for his ballpark scam.

George still regularly gets quoted in the local press advocating one or another of the establishment's bad ideas...and he's never called on it.

Don, why was Mitrovich not put in jail too?

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Don Bauder Nov. 5, 2009 @ 8:56 p.m.

Response to post #5: Writing the book took several months -- probably four or five. I continued to work for the Union. I would go in three days a week and write stories and columns in advance, and also keep up with things from home. The other four days I would devote to the book. To complicate matters, my wife was off at UC-Davis for one leg of her residency requirements for her PhD. So I was home with our two sons, although she came home on weekends to supervise things. I worked probably 12-14 hours a day on the days I was composing. Being a Luddite, I sometimes had to wake up our oldest son in the middle of the night, or call him at school during the day, to fix the computer. I got it in on time. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 5, 2009 @ 8:58 p.m.

Response to post #6: Those data are available on SS. Both SS and Medicare will have to be repaired again. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 5, 2009 @ 9:08 p.m.

Response to post #7: Mitrovich lived rent-free in a home owned by J. David. We always wondered if he had paid taxes on that. This is the kind of thing that often gets settled quietly with the IRS.I don't remember that he claimed he had paid his taxes on this windfall, at least before the J. David crash, but perhaps he did deny it. He did PR as well as community relations for J. David. There was talk he would be named as an unindicted co-conspirator, but as I recall, nothing came of it, or at least those of us covering the story didn't find that out. I question that Mitrovich knew what was going on, but he had to sense that his money tree couldn't keep growing. On the other hand, maybe he didn't sense that....Best, Don Bauder

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Fred Williams Nov. 5, 2009 @ 11:25 p.m.

Editing note:

Don, it's "poli-sci", short for "political", not "poly-sci" which would mean that they'd actually studied some plethora of REAL science.

I, regretably, studied poli-sci. To call it a "science" is like describing banging rocks and sticks together as "medicine".

I strong hope that in the future our leaders would study "poly-sci" as that might actually teach them something useful.

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Ponzi Nov. 6, 2009 @ 12:25 a.m.

I have known many scammers in San Diego. I am not one of them, but for some reason I have found myself acquainted with them. They are abundant in San Diego. As we speak, there are hundreds of people being ripped off in San Diego by some yet unnamed and undiscovered Ponzi schemer. It always happens, just like the flu.

The biggest Ponzi scheme is the US Social Security System. Why don't we charge them with fraud?

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Ponzi Nov. 6, 2009 @ 12:44 a.m.

One thing I have learned from my experience with the scammers I have come to know is they are all sociopaths.

If you can learn and identify the traits of a sociopath, you can avoid being taken in by a ponzi scheme.

The charm, the fast deal, the name dropping, the seduction...

A ponzi scheme cannot work without an emotional hook. Greed and fear. They have the finesses to remove your fear so that only your greed guides you.

The bottom line in any scam is “if it’s too good to be true, it probably isn’t.”

Anyone believing that someone else will “share” an investment return of greater than 10% annum is a sucker. That’s it. That is the bottom line. Once you stray to a non-institutional investment strategy… a buddy’s invention, a new lover’s business deal, an acquaintance who knows someone who makes a high return… you are finished

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Ponzi Nov. 6, 2009 @ 1:09 a.m.

All schemes need a “store.” A physical place where the gullible can be take to see the work being done. A “store“ can be fake pipelines, a boiler room filled with salespeople, a busy factory, a plot of land where homes will be built or a nerd that makes money on a computer like a goose that lays a golden egg.

Nancy Hoover was the biggest crook in the J. David affair. She arraigned the social calendar, drove the business to Jerry, recruited the top sales talent, as Mayor of Del Mar provided the respectability.. I could go on and on…

But the “store” is the package you sell and the big elephant in the room is that without Nancy Hoover, J David would have never gotten off the ground.

Yes, I present to you the theory that Nancy Hoover was the mastermind, the sociopath, the traitor and the biggest criminal in the J David affair. I feel anyone who has studied it over the years would agree, Jerry was just encouraged by her to perpetuate his scheme to which she feed . She enjoyed the fruits of the massive mismanagement of money from it. Nancy Hoover need not write a book about how to land a man, but how to con a community. I would gladly tell her to her face that she is one of the most symptomatic of a sociopath that San Diego has ever known to date.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 6, 2009 @ 7:37 a.m.

I was starting to think Ponzi was Barry Minkow from #12 and #13, but he is too old to be Minkow after reading #14.

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Ponzi Nov. 6, 2009 @ 9:13 a.m.

No I am not. But why would post #14 be different? The ZZZZ Best was scam was in 1986 (after Dominelli). Although it was not really a Ponzi scheme. Also, Barry had Tom Padgett, an adult and insurance insider that helped him legitimize his scam. Without Tom Padgett, Barry would not have made it very far.

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Don Bauder Nov. 6, 2009 @ 10:17 a.m.

Response to post #11: I agree: the study of politics is not science. Many schools now call it politics. Economics is called the dismal science, but it is not science, either. As to poly sci or poli sci; I'll have to check my editor, Heather Goodwillie, who is an expert on all such things. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 6, 2009 @ 10:19 a.m.

Response to post #12: There are Ponzis going on everywhere. The largest ever occurred in New York City. There are plenty there. Best, Don Bauder

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Visduh Nov. 6, 2009 @ 10:23 a.m.

OK, Ponzi, "If you can learn and identify the traits of a sociopath, you can avoid being taken in . . ." I agree, but this is easier said than done, especially for certain personality types. Too often, you need to see the sociopath in action for a time before the bitter truth emerges. The reason that sociopaths can be so successful for so long is that they can hide their true nature from the majority of their victims.

Care to provide an encapsulated guide to how to spot a sociopath? If you can, you could make millions writing a how-to book!

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Don Bauder Nov. 6, 2009 @ 10:23 a.m.

Response to post #13: You make several good points. Scammers tend to be sociopaths, and that is why they are often so believable. A lot of politicians are sociopaths, too, and that's why people believe what they say. And, yes, the greed of the victim is important in any Ponzi scheme. As W.C. Fields observed, "You can't cheat an honest man." Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 6, 2009 @ 10:27 a.m.

Response to post #14: I agree that the Dominelli Ponzi wouldn't have been possible without Hoover, and may not have even taken place had not a lovesick puppy, Jerry Dominelli, desperately felt he needed to keep supplying luxury to Hoover. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 6, 2009 @ 10:30 a.m.

Response to post #15: It never occurred to me that Ponzi may be Barry Minkow. He showed up in San Diego in the early 1990s, as I recall. The Dominelli affair was not much in evidence by then, although Hoover was being tried. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 6, 2009 @ 10:33 a.m.

Response to post #16: Yes, Minkow's scam was not really a Ponzi. I don't know about Padgett. You certainly have knowledge of scams. Best, Don Bauder

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 6, 2009 @ 11:46 a.m.

No I am not. But why would post #14 be different? The ZZZZ Best was scam was in 1986 (after Dominelli).

By Ponzi 9

But Barry Minko was only 19 or 20 years old in 1986, which would have made him 13, 14, 15 during J David, and you knew the J David scandal far too good to have been 13 at the time.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 6, 2009 @ 11:50 a.m.

Heather Goodwillie, who is an expert on all such things.

By dbauder

Heather Goodwillie, that is an awesome name.

Someone should name a movie character after her, to go wth the likes of Holly Golightly, or Foxy Brown :)

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Russ Lewis Nov. 6, 2009 @ 12:04 p.m.

(#11) Fred, you fool, you coulda turned that typo into ten bucks. (See "Typo Patrol Results" in the back pages.)

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Ponzi Nov. 6, 2009 @ 12:15 p.m.

For what it's worth, Barry Minkow is 43, he would have been 18 when the J. David affair was breaking news in 1984.

The ZZZZ Best is an interesting case study because Barry was able to take the company public. Imagine the web of deception to get past all the legal and accounting hurdles.

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gardenparty Nov. 6, 2009 @ 4:12 p.m.

Ponzi, Actually Minkow is 42. Sorry, can't help it, too detail oriented I guess. (no my gf doesn't call me Monk). Here's some food for thought, surfpuppy. Minkow started his "business" when he was still in high school. He was 16. So that was between March of 1983 and March of 1984. He didn't go public till January of 1986. If I remember it was late 83 when Dominelli investors started having problems and early 1984 when the $**T hit the fan. So Minkow would have been 16-17 when it went down; plenty old enough to understand what was going on. Especially for someone who was runnimg his own business AND having money problems. I think it's completely plausible that Ponzi could be Barry in disguise. However take it a little farther. Since ZZZZ Best was going on at the same time as J David was coming apart, maybe Minkow used it as a case study on how to run his own business/scheme. Maybe he thought he could learn from J Davids demise and not replicate the same mistakes. By all accounts, Barry Minko is a pretty intelligent guy. Maybe he just wasn't as good as he thought he was, in terms of not making the same mistakes. Seems somewhat plausible to me. Just something to make you go HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

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Don Bauder Nov. 6, 2009 @ 7:48 p.m.

Response to post #24: I think we have pretty much determined that Minkow is not our Ponzi. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 6, 2009 @ 7:49 p.m.

Response to post #25: Heather Goodwillie is a really good editor. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 6, 2009 @ 7:53 p.m.

Response to post #26: Russl, I confess it wasn't a typo. I turned it in that way. That's the way I have always thought it was spelled. I'm still not convinced it should be poli sci. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 6, 2009 @ 7:55 p.m.

Response to post #27: The fancy footwork of Minkow, then very young, was amazing in that scam. Best, Don bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 6, 2009 @ 7:58 p.m.

Response to post #28: Minkow could have learned little from Dominelli and Hoover. He was much shrewder than they were, and operating a different kind of scam. Best, Don Bauder

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Fred Williams Nov. 6, 2009 @ 9:12 p.m.

Don, the heavens have aligned. Russl and I both agree that it's "poli" rather than "poly".

Rather than simply quote some boring old dictionary, let's test it the newfangled way...

Go to Google. Type "polisci". Click Search. Note that all the top results are related to political science.

Now search "polysci". While there are results that are related to the study of politics, it's mixed in with scientific firms that claim to engage in a multitude of disciplines.

This is because "poly" is entymologically "poly- repr Gr. polu-, comb. form of polús, polú much, pl. polloi many" (source http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O27-poly.html)

But "politics" is derived from the Greek word for citizen "polites", which is derived from the word for city..."polis".

Therefore poly-sci and poli-sci are logically quite different things.

I'm sure Heather and Russl will both agree that although I once studied poli-sci at SDSU, my current responsibilities with a multitude of technologies requires me to understand "poly-science".

The shortening of "political science" into "polisci" might have happened after WWII when the acronym accustomed former GIs arrived on campus.

But let's be absolutely sure...we'll check what the University of San Diego calls it today -- poly- or poli-sci. The answer is in the web address itself, which is:

www.sandiego.edu/cas/polisci/

As to the $10 I could have hypothetically earned for reporting this most trivial misusage by my hero Don Bauder, I'd rather see that go to the commenter who is homeless, studying at City College, and logs on to the Reader at the library downtown. She needs it more than me...any way, oh mighty Reader powers, to get that to her?

:-)

Fred Williams President Don Bauder Fan Club

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Fred Williams Nov. 6, 2009 @ 9:22 p.m.

Back to Ponzi schemes...

I have zero expectation of getting any money ever from any government. Though I have paid plenty in taxes over the years for the retirement I'll never receive, at least I was able to resist the endless calls over the last fifteen years to "invest in the market for your future".

A dollar put into the market ten years ago is worth what today?

The game was rigged. It's not only social security that won't pay out, it's all those 401Ks that might turn out to be nothing but paper when it's time to pay out.

How on earth can finance represent such a huge proportion of our economy for so long? It should be the clerical process of allocating and negotiating prices and such...an administrative overheard, and a cost to the economy, not a revenue generator.

When we look for our lost money in the coming decades, maybe we'll point back to the present time and realize that none of it existed in the first place, and what little "real" money there was originally has disappeared into the pockets of the fraudsters on top.

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Fred Williams Nov. 6, 2009 @ 9:26 p.m.

San Diego scams continue unabated as well. The biggest involve government money.

I need not repeat the notorious frauds involving the stadium and ballpark, bribery of public officials, political payoffs, employment of former city managers, and so on...

But have a look at CCDC. It issued or underwrote bonds for how many of downtown's see-through condo buildings and office towers? How much are we on the hook for? Does anyone know?

As the markets continue to splatter, and these buildings are defaulted on, who has to pay off that debt WE guaranteed because it was part of "redevelopment"?

Oh, San Diego is so pretty, so likeable...and so dumb.

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Ponzi Nov. 6, 2009 @ 11:44 p.m.

I'm not Barry Minkow. I'm a big fan of Don Bauder, been following him for 30 years.

I just have always followed theses scams because they are as much a San Diego phenomenon and staple as fish tacos.

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 6:43 a.m.

Response to post #34: Mea maxima culpa. But I have a shocker. It should humble both you and me. On Oct. 14, 2009, my column about two political science professors at UCSD uses "poly sci." I erred then but you people didn't catch it. So we all deserve a spanking -- (no, maybe that is not an appropriate punishment, given the publicity about Duvall, the former Orange County state legislator.) Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 6:57 a.m.

Response to post $35: Over recent decades, financial activities have gone from 10% of the U.S. economy to 20%. Manufacturing has gone the other way. Yes, much if not most of this financial activity is fluff -- just economically meaningless shuffling of paper. What's doubly appalling is that this shuffling of paper is the most remunerative activity in the U.S. Wall Street pay is far higher than pay of people who are actually productive. And remember, much Wall Street activity is counter-productive to the economy, not merely non-productive. For example, leveraged buyouts are scams that weaken the companies that are taken over, loading them with debt. Those doing the LBOs walk out with piles of unearned money. Most merger and acquisition activity is counter-productive; the resulting company is worse than the two pre-merger companies. In a hot market, initial public offerings are scams. Insiders and venture capitalists get very rich, suckers who buy the stocks while they being propelled artificially get very poor, and the companies wind up being candidates for the dumpster. In many cases, the insiders knew all along that the companies would never amount to anything. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 7:05 a.m.

Response to post #36: You raise an excellent point. What is the economic effect of those see-through condos in the ballpark district? Taxpayers subsidized them. John Moores may have raked in as much as a billion dollars by getting ballpark district land at very cheap prices and selling it to condo developer at high prices. We know that sales taxes are not coming in because occupancy is so low. We know that transient occupancy taxes are not coming in because of low occupancy of the hotels. Are the property taxes being paid? Dunno. Has anyone done a full, honest accounting of this? No. Will anybody? No, of course not. The same is true of other projects involving CCDC. Will the public ever know how much they benefit the real estate industry and how much they pilfer from taxpayers? Doubtful. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 7:09 a.m.

Response to post #37: I never thought you were Barry Minkow, and I doubt that many others did. You obviously have knowledge of Scam Diego's ugly history. Keep providing us information. Best, Don Bauder

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 7, 2009 @ 9:04 a.m.

But have a look at CCDC. It issued or underwrote bonds for how many of downtown's see-through condo buildings and office towers? How much are we on the hook for? Does anyone know?

Oh, San Diego is so pretty, so likeable...and so dumb.

By Fred_Williams

I am surprised that the CCDC issued the bonds, I though CCDC was jus a facilitator in the red tape process, I didn't htink they actually provided financing for these developments. Isn't the developer and their bank supposed to take on that risk...since they are the ones reaping all the profits??

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 7, 2009 @ 9:40 a.m.

I also never thought Ponzi was Minko. And besides, even if Minko did have the scammer mentality at 16, 17 or 18, Minko lived up in the LA area. Doubtful if he even knew of the J David affair since there was no internet and the scam was most likely not covered by local LA papers.

What amazes the hell out of me is how white collar fraud and criminals, such as with J David and ZZZZ Carpet, get away with pretty light, very favorable prison terms. They stole literally tens and hundreds of millions from people, yet I don't think Minko did more than a few years-certainly less than 10, and I think J David did around 10 or 11, which is peanuts for what they stole. Duke Cunningham was bribed in the millions of dollars and got less than 9 years.

That is hard for me to understand. The damage these people do and then have pretty easy prison terms.

I was in court in LA last month, and they had a criminal sentencing before the civil motions were called. This kid, in his 20's, was in some sort of credit card scam, stole a few hundred grand, which is not peanuts but nothing near the millions stolen in white collar crime like ZZZZ and J David, the guy got 14 years in federal prison.

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gardenparty Nov. 7, 2009 @ 10:23 a.m.

Don and surfpuppy, geeez, you guys need to cut me some slack already. I never said I thought ponzi=minkow. I said it was plausible, but I also said it was food for though for the surfpup. I really have no idea. Except for summer vaca, I was gone away at college for pretty much all of the JDavid stuff I think. We used to visit my former in laws in OC during that time and I remember seeing ZZZZ best commercials on tv a few times. I think that about the time i had finished grad scholl and then moved to OC for work was about the time the whole ZZZZ best thing was starting to come apart. I remember watching a segment about it on a show called Eye On LA, but that's about it. So I really don't know much except what I' ve read about it. My apologies if I offended ponzi. That said, surfpuppies comments on sentencing made me curious, so I researched it a little. Minkow was found guilty on 54 counts of racketeering, securities fraud, embezzlement, mail fraud, tax evasion and bank fraud. He was sentenced to 25 yrs in prison and ordered to pay $25 million in restitution. He served 71/2 yrs of his sentence. In 2002 the original judgment on behalf of investors and lenders against Minkow was dismissed. His probation was also cut short as of the fall of 2002. As of 2004, Minkow's outstanding monetary debt remains with Union Bank of California, with principal and interest totalling around $19 million. Minkow pays up to 30% of his $68,500 yearly salary to the bank. Also the majority of his speaking fees and money from his book sales go towards his debt.

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Ponzi Nov. 7, 2009 @ 10:25 a.m.

Ponzi, Actually Minkow is 42. Sorry, can't help it, too detail oriented I guess. (no my gf doesn't call me Monk).

Sorry "Monk", Barry is indeed 43 years old (born March 22, 1966) . Don't believe everything you read in Wikipedia where it says he was born March 17, 1967.

For one thing, I doubt the Federal Bureau of Prisons would get his age wrong, or the Los Angeles Times or numerous other sources.

BOP http://tinyurl.com/bop-minkow

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Ponzi Nov. 7, 2009 @ 10:26 a.m.

gardenparty ^^^ The above post was for you aka "Monk" :)

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Ponzi Nov. 7, 2009 @ 10:36 a.m.

By the way there is going to be a movie called "Minkow" out soon (2010) about Barry Minkow and the ZZZZ Best scam. Starring Justin Baldoni, Ving Rhames, James Caan, Mark Hamill and Armand Assante.

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gardenparty Nov. 7, 2009 @ 10:43 a.m.

Re 43 One other thing surfpup. The LAT did cover J David. Perhaps you have forgotten that there was a San Diego edition of the LA Times until sometime in the early 90's. We have a subscription to the LAT archives and they have articles on J David as far back as 1982 right on thru trial and sentencing and on.( there may have been other articles prior than that, but the archive only goes back to December of 1981) Many of them were written by Anthony Ramirez, who was the LA Times business editor for the San Diego edition of the LA Times, before he became an associate editor for Fortune magazine and later joined the NYT. Perhaps Don may have known him.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 7, 2009 @ 11:30 a.m.

Minkow was found guilty on 54 counts of racketeering, securities fraud, embezzlement, mail fraud, tax evasion and bank fraud. He was sentenced to 25 yrs in prison and ordered to pay $25 million in restitution. He served 71/2 yrs of his sentence.

See, that is what I mean-7.5 years for something like that when a guy that robs a bank, with no gun, takes maybe a few grand-gets 20+ years.

It is very unjust IMO.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 7, 2009 @ 11:31 a.m.

One other thing surfpup. The LAT did cover J David. Perhaps you have forgotten that there was a San Diego edition of the LA Times until sometime in the early 90's.

But Minko was in the LA area-not San Diego.

It is doubtful if the LA Times published very much of the J David case in the LA or OC editions.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 7, 2009 @ 11:37 a.m.

By the way there is going to be a movie called "Minkow" out soon (2010) about Barry Minkow and the ZZZZ Best scam. Starring Justin Baldoni, Ving Rhames, James Caan, Mark Hamill and Armand Assante.

By Ponzi

That confirms it, Ponzi = Barry Monkow!@

I am shocked he has a movie- and even MORE shocked at how many major stars are in it! Including Mark Hamill.

Good catch Ponzi

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1441922/

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 11:55 a.m.

Response to post #42: CCDC reports to the Redevelopment Agency, which is the city council. The Redevelopment Agency can issue tax allocation bonds. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 12:15 p.m.

Response to post #48: Oh yes, the LA Times did cover the J. David story, and well. The SD bureau won an award from the paper for its coverage. Ramirez did cover it, but I remember that Bill Ritter did, too. They were both tough competitors. Ritter went on to become a star TV newscaster. I think Ramirez may have ended up with the NY Times, but I am not sure. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 12:20 p.m.

Response to post #43: Yes, a guy who knocks over a gas station gets several years and the guy who pulls off a complete scam, stealing millions from the public, may get nothing. Minkow got something like 25 years initially, as I recall. (You can find this in my Reader stories about him.) He got religion and got out early, and began paying back victims and assisting criminal agencies on scams. Agencies such as the FBI will vouch for Minkow. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 12:25 p.m.

Response to post #44: Yes, most of the money he makes sniffing out scams, giving lectures, helping the FBI, et al, goes to paying back what he owes. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 12:28 p.m.

Response to post #45: Wikipedia is sometimes wrong. But so is the Bureau of Prisons. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 12:30 p.m.

Response to post #46: Monk? Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 12:31 p.m.

Response to post #47: Minkow's story is a natural for a movie. I don't know why one hasn't been done before. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 12:34 p.m.

Response to post #49: It depends how soon the guy who gets 20 years gets out. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 12:36 p.m.

Response to post #50: I would guess the Times printed some of the J. David stuff, but obviously not every daily story. It was a big Southern California story. Captain Money sold well in L.A. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 12:44 p.m.

Response to post #51: Why are you shocked? As I said, I think it's a natural, although I admit I don't know anything about movies. Best, Don Bauder

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gardenparty Nov. 7, 2009 @ 1:43 p.m.

Re # 50 "It is doubtful if the LA Times published very much of the J David case in the LA or OC editions."

See # 60 I wasn't there for most of it, so I bow to Don on this one.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 7, 2009 @ 3:43 p.m.

Captain Money sold well in L.A. Best, Don Bauder

By dbauder

Then I stand corrected.

BTW-I am being funny when I said Ponzi is Barry Minkow.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 7, 2009 @ 3:44 p.m.

Response to post #49: It depends how soon the guy who gets 20 years gets out. Best, Don Bauder

By dbauder

This was in federal court, so if you get 20 years you do 20 years-minus 15% of good behaviour if you get it.

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gardenparty Nov. 7, 2009 @ 6:40 p.m.

re#64 "This was in federal court, so if you get 20 years you do 20 years-minus 15% of good behaviour if you get it."

So let me ask you this question surfpuppy. Minkow was indicted by a federal grand jury, prosecuted in federal court by a federal prosecutor and served time in a federal prison. So how did he only serve 7 1/2 of 25 yrs. I know it's 54 days per year for good behavior, but that doesn't explain onlt 701/2 yrs. Any Ideas? "BTW-I am being funny when I said Ponzi is Barry Minkow." That's ok, I was actually sort of mocking your investigative side with my post. No offense intended, of course.

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 7:33 p.m.

Response to post #62; I was there, of course, but I wasn't reading the LA or OC editions -- just the SD edition. So it's supposition on my part, too. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 7:36 p.m.

Response to post #63: I assume BTW means by the way. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 7:39 p.m.

Response to post #64: Those are guidelines. But there are exceptions. One is mentioned in the above story: Hoover was sentenced in federal court to ten years and got out in 30 months. Supposedly, she gave information for the trial of salesman Ted Pulaski. She also admitted she had lied on the stand in her own trial. Yet she still got out in 30 months. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 7, 2009 @ 7:43 p.m.

Response to post #65: This instance appears to be similar to the Hoover matter: federal court, but getting out far earlier than strict adherence to the so-called guidelines would permit. Best, Don Bauder

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Fred Williams Nov. 7, 2009 @ 11:59 p.m.

Don, do you have some copies of Captain Money still?

If so, I'd imagine nothing better for Xmas for us loyal Bauder blog commentarians.

:-)

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Don Bauder Nov. 8, 2009 @ 7:41 a.m.

Response to post #70: I have some, but google "Captain Money and the Golden Girl" online first, and see if an online used book operation has copies. I'll bet somebody does. If you have no luck, email me at don.bauder@mac.com. Best, Don Bauder

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 8, 2009 @ 8:10 a.m.

Minkow was indicted by a federal grand jury, prosecuted in federal court by a federal prosecutor and served time in a federal prison. So how did he only serve 7 1/2 of 25 yrs. I know it's 54 days per year for good behavior, but that doesn't explain onlt 701/2 yrs. Any Ideas?

No idea.

I guess Minkow was sentenced before the federal guidelines were imposed.

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Don Bauder Nov. 8, 2009 @ 1:13 p.m.

Response to post #72. I believe he was sentenced after the guidelines were imposed. I repeat: in some cases, the guidelines are not followed. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 8, 2009 @ 1:16 p.m.

Response to post #73: They may be going for pennies. I remember being told several years ago that one was on sale for a fraction of a penny. The company was obviously making money on the mailing. Being informed of that price was obviously not a big boost to my ego at the time. Best, Don Bauder

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Russ Lewis Nov. 8, 2009 @ 1:30 p.m.

(#75) Well, one copy is going for $111.15 -- that's what they're charging, anyway. That should salve your self-esteem. Anyhow, look through the bargain bin at half.com and you'll see that you're in good company.

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Don Bauder Nov. 8, 2009 @ 4:28 p.m.

Response to post #76: I don't believe one copy is going for $111.15. That is a misprint of some kind and it doesn't boost my ego a bit. Best, Don Bauder

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Russ Lewis Nov. 8, 2009 @ 5:07 p.m.

I didn't say it sold for $111.15, I said somebody's charging that. Some of those dealers are on drugs. The whole collectibles market is way down these days. Just look at any category you've ever followed on eBay; nobody's paying the stupid money for anything that they used to pay. Which means, of course, that now's a great time to buy stuff up, if you've got the money. Don Bauder books are a great investment, I hear.

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Fred Williams Nov. 8, 2009 @ 8:25 p.m.

Unlike the Wall Street barons, I don't have access to 0% loans from the central bank so I can buy up undervalued assets (like Don's books).

Don, I'll email you. I prefer buying directly from the author whenever possible so he actually gets paid for his work.

(see, blogging and interacting with your audience pays!)

:-)

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Don Bauder Nov. 8, 2009 @ 9:29 p.m.

Response to post #78: If I could get $111.15, I could make some good money on what few remaining books I have. I could even autograph them. My personalized note would be: "You are a bigger sucker than Jerry Dominelli's victims. Best, Don Bauder"

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Don Bauder Nov. 8, 2009 @ 9:33 p.m.

Response to post #79: I see one for $1 -- which is $110.15 less than I was hoping to get. Notice that it says the pages evince little wear. Sounds like somebody didn't bother to read it, or quit reading after page 10. Again, this is not good for my frail ego. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 8, 2009 @ 9:35 p.m.

Response to post #80: Just let me know whether you want an autographed hardback or paperback. The latter has a bit more information because it came out a year later. Best, Don Bauder

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Duhbya Nov. 9, 2009 @ 4:33 a.m.

Re #78: " Don Bauder books are a great investment, I hear." Eureka. Don, you could (repeat, COULD) dole them out in segments for $111.15, promising early investors something like a 10% per month return. The elephants are already in the room. ;>)

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SDaniels Nov. 9, 2009 @ 4:59 a.m.

"Response to post #80: Just let me know whether you want an autographed hardback or paperback. The latter has a bit more information because it came out a year later."

I want to purchase an autographed copy, Mr. Bauder.

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Don Bauder Nov. 9, 2009 @ 6:02 a.m.

Response to post #84: Them ain't elephants. They's pigeons. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Nov. 9, 2009 @ 6:05 a.m.

Response to post #85: Send me an email at don.bauder@mac.com. Best, Don Bauder

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 9, 2009 @ 7:02 a.m.

Don, I'll email you. I prefer buying directly from the author whenever possible so he actually gets paid for his work.

(see, blogging and interacting with your audience pays!)

By Fred_Williams

I could even autograph them. My personalized note would be: "You are a bigger sucker than Jerry Dominelli's victims. Best, Don Bauder"

By dbauder

I want to purchase an autographed copy, Mr. Bauder.

By SDaniels

See, this is what a loyal fan base can do when it is properly developed by quality product.

I saw a movie on "Showtime" a few weeks ago called "Her Minor Thing" which turned out to be one of the BEST romantic comedies I have seen in years-so I looked it up in the Internet Movie DataBase and found the people who wrote and produced it, contacted them, bought the DVD directly THROUGH them (for an extra $3 bucks over Amazon.com).

The writers producers were super nice, and BOTH signed the DVD and to really top it off they sent 15 color pics of the production-which by itsef was worth $50 bucks.

Yes, I want an autographed copy of the book too!

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