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Last Thursday morning, April 30, the body of Richard Howard Liams Swink was found lying on the sidewalk outside of the Ocean Beach library on Sunset Cliffs Boulevard. Injuries to his abdomen and chest seemed to indicate that he had been stabbed to death.

Swink’s body was discovered at around 6 a.m. by a passing bicyclist who went to the nearby Arco gas station and had the attendant call 911.

Swink had no personal possessions nearby and was not wearing shoes. Early in the morning, a man was taken into custody for questioning but was later released. Police say they have no other leads in the case.

Due to the crime scene’s close proximity to Ocean Beach Elementary school (across the street), many parents were upset that the body was not covered during the investigation, which lasted about four hours.

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Comments

SDaniels May 12, 2009 @ 12:50 a.m.

Oceannia420, I also wonder...having seen something similar in a Clairemont neighborhood a year or so ago. The necessity for this kind of procedure is worth questioning?

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Oceannia420 May 12, 2009 @ 12:38 a.m.

They could have put a barricade up near the dead body with out any problem to block the view of smaller kiddies. I'm an adult and I sure don't want to see a dead body either and for 4 hours. No thanks!!

```out

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RBmom May 4, 2009 @ 11:05 a.m.

This is life! Kids will have to face these unfortunate things. How better than you as the parent to be there and explain to the kids how these sad things happen. Always attacking the media, law enforcement for what they do or not do. Sad but true, we are not their only influence in life. As much as we try to shield them, they will have to learn how bad life can be at times.

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7SiNz May 6, 2009 @ 7:07 a.m.

Excellent comments RBmom. America seems to be losing its way. Somewhere people began pointing fingers and taking no responsibilty. It is an opportunity to explain what can happen and all to often is happening. Law enforcement doesn't cover the body because they need to investigate and look for clues and not destroy or tamper with the crime scene. I guess its easier to point the finger than teach real lifes lessons.

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martagee Oct. 24, 2009 @ 2:59 p.m.

Richard was a childhood friend of mine. Seeing a photo of his body laying in the street is one HECK of a way to find out about his death. I was born and raised in O.B. (went to O.B. elementary school)I left my home town because I didn't want to live in a place where people do stuff like stab you in broad daylight -for kicks- and GET AWAY WITH IT! If you live there -or go there- you need to open your eyes!!! There are people there who like the way it feels to do this sort of thing. The focus of public attention should be on the fact that O.B. is a very dangerous place to live or to even visit! On my way fishing one morning over 25 years ago I discovered an 80 year old man on the ground in the SAME EXACT SPOT AS RICKS BODY! He was sitting there bleeding holding his wallet in his hand crying because the group of kids who did it didn't even rob him! Why? WHY!? is all he could keep saying! He said it was a gang of kids (O.B. T's) I went to O.B. elementary with the parents of said kids. YOUR KIDS ARE IN SCHOOL WITH THEIR KIDS the police do too good a job shielding you and your precious kids from the truth! What about RICKY SWINK?? the reaction was more like that he was inconsiderate for getting himself killed out there in front of your kids school instead of down by the beach where it happens ALL THE TIME!!! tsk You self involved yuppies only THINK you live in a good place because it costs alot. P.S. why were your brats looking out the window instead of paying attention to the teacher in class anyway!! R.I.P. Rick. My concolences to his sister who probably doesn't live in O.B. or send HER kids to that school either! to s.d.p.d., I would NOT want your job! Oh yeah and; S.D. Reader!!! thanks ALOT for publishing a PHOTO OF MY FRIENDS BODY IN THE STREET YOU SUCK TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SIGNED AN ORIGINAL O.B.LOC

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CuddleFish Oct. 25, 2009 @ 12:08 p.m.

Agree. This picture should not have been published, it was not necessary, in poor taste, and surely offensive to friends and family.

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Jay Allen Sanford Oct. 25, 2009 @ 12:42 p.m.

My condolences to all involved - however, does this really count as "publishing" the photo? A "Stringer" is just some guy or girl who doesn't work for the Reader and has nothing to do with the newspaper - it's just somebody out there sitting at home and uploading to a website that allows them to.

If some guy posts a comment to your MySpace page that includes a pic, does that mean the guy has now been "published"?

Stringers are not reporters - uploading a pic to a site is not publishing.

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David Dodd Oct. 25, 2009 @ 2:10 p.m.

"Stringers are not reporters - uploading a pic to a site is not publishing."

Jay, you might want to re-think that statement. Stringers are reporters. While they are not "staff", they certainly are reporters, as they are paid for their contributions. Also note that publishing, by its very definition, includes the internet, paid or not. Most book and magazine publishers consider anything previously posted on the internet as having been previously published.

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CuddleFish Oct. 25, 2009 @ 3:01 p.m.

If I were the family, or even a member of the general public coming to this website, I'd think it was published. The terms stringers implies a part-time reporter, doesn't it? I mean, how would I know the technicalities involved?

Not speaking of the blogs, but of articles published on the home page. That's what those are, news articles and stories. One would assume. And one would assume they couldn't get on the home page without being seen by someone on the staff.

May be wrong assumptions, but how would a reader know that, and why would they distinguish, anyway?

I'm asking.

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David Dodd Oct. 25, 2009 @ 3:15 p.m.

I'll answer. I've been a stringer in other publications and newspapers. You're not staff, your paycheck doesn't command a W-2, and you aren't officially employed by the publication, but you're published, never-the-less. Most stringers in newspapers are identified by name and titled as "Special to the (insert publication here)". Staff writers are employed by the paper/publication, and other titles that are similar to stringer but perhaps more prestigious include "columnist", "contributor", or "reporter".

And note that often at times, even though contributors are only stringers (or contributors or columnists or reporters), the publication will list them as "staff" if they would like to. It sometimes benefits both the publication and the writer.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 25, 2009 @ 3:45 p.m.

I have a question;

Since we all post here, and arguably that means we're "published" as "Special to the San Diego Reader", can any of us call ourselves as "stringers?

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SDaniels Oct. 25, 2009 @ 3:48 p.m.

I think you have to post a news story to be called a 'stringer,' Puppy.

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CuddleFish Oct. 25, 2009 @ 4:12 p.m.

Let me try pointing out the obvious again:

How would a family member, or a friend, know the difference, and why would it matter? The picture is there, they presume it's put there by someone attached to the Reader. Martagee amply demonstrates this simple principle. The title of the section doesn't say Someone Walking Along The Street Wrote This Report And Posted This Picture. It says Stories: Neighborhood News From Stringers.

The word "news" implies, well, news. A news article or report.

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David Dodd Oct. 25, 2009 @ 4:28 p.m.

SurfPuppy: If the Reader has paid you for a story, then you're a stringer (unless you're on their staff). If not, you're gifting your comments.

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SDaniels Oct. 25, 2009 @ 7:38 p.m.

It has a certain ring, you must admit SP ;)

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Jay Allen Sanford Oct. 27, 2009 @ 10:23 a.m.

RE the enormous difference between a reporter and a stringer -

CuddleFish says "If I were the family, or even a member of the general public coming to this website, I'd think it [a stringer report and photo] was published. The terms stringers implies a part-time reporter, doesn't it?"

CuddleFish also says "How would a family member, or a friend, know the difference [between staff-written articles and "news from stringers"], and why would it matter? The picture is there, they presume it's put there by someone attached to the Reader...The word "news" implies, well, news. A news article or report."

That's exactly the problem!

A REPORTER is held to a number of professional guidelines and obligations by our publisher and editors - every story a staff reporter submits requires us to substantiate, and then confirm, each and every detail, from how the proper names are spelled all the way down to the veracity and truth of the report itself. Quotes from interviewees must be checked, usually by going over every word with the person being quoted, and offering a chance to correct or clarify. If multiple interviewees are involved who express differing opinions and/or accounts, opportunities must be given for reply and rebuttal. A level of balance must be maintained, as well as a level of journalistic integrity that guarantees accuracy, while still managing to inform, engage, and - pending topic - perhaps to entertain as well.

A STRINGER? A guy types whatever he wants on a keyboard, uploads it, and hopes the Reader will cut them a check.

Even if the check is NOT the motivation, it's very disturbing to think CuddleFish is correct, that someone coming to the Reader site will automatically assume News From Stringers is no different from staff-written reports.

Just because the word "News" appears in "News from stringers," that doesn't make the stringer a reporter, any more than enrolling in grade school makes you a college graduate.

I read most every post that goes onto the Reader site, since - in addition to reporting and cartooning for the Reader - I also do daily work on the website. Some of the stringer reports are indeed very informative, containing actual news and presented in a very professional manner. Even better, stringers have been known to cover topics and events the Reader may have otherwise never been aware of, let alone covered in report(s). Those are the stringer posts that deserve and receive the paychecks, and I personally welcome and encourage more ---

However, in my opinion, such stringer entries account for maybe five percent of all stringer posts to appear on the Reader site. At most. THOSE are the ones you see appear the following week in the printed newspaper editions - THOSE are the "PUBLISHED" stringer reports.

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Jay Allen Sanford Oct. 27, 2009 @ 10:23 a.m.

The stuff that appears on the Reader site is NOT "published," not by the actual journalistic definition anyway. Just because some people have adopted the word "published" as akin to merely uploading, that does not make it true!

The very act of accepting "uploading" as the same as "publishing" demonstrates the very lack of accuracy in language, interpretation, and intent that I decry.

I feel my position is actually proven by the dissenting comments above - this thread started with someone assuming the Reader "published" a disturbing photo of a murder victim, when in actuality someone unconnected to the paper uploaded it, the same as they would a MySpace comment or a Facebook wall post. For site visitors to automatically assume the stringer is a Reader reporter, and that the Reader is responsible, is a PROBLEM.

Real reporters must wring their work thru a system of checks and balances that (ideally, anyway) assures a level of accuracy and consistency, with an editorial staff examining each and every detail of each and every article, to assure this high level is maintained.

A stringer? The only requirement is to avoid slander, libel, and/or incendiary rhetoric. The only time editing is done to stringer posts (or to comments, or to neighborhood blog posts for that matter) is when those most basic rules aren't followed.

I'm glad we have stringer reports on the Reader site. A small percentage read as if from actual reporters, and those are the ones getting paid and - in some cases - being offered actual assignments, or even a job on staff.

But for site visitors to assume stringers are Reader reporters, and/or that the Reader is behind and approves of whatever some yahoo feels like uploading, well, that's a huge problem. One I will continue to correct and educate people about at every given opportunity - it's a problem in my own back yard (the Reader workplace) that is endemic to the overall blog-ification of "news" all over the internet.

Just cuz some guy with internet access says something, doesn't make it news. Doesn't even make it TRUE, especially when - like a stringer post - it lacks the rigid editorial process of checks and balances that REAL career reporters work thru every day.

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CuddleFish Oct. 27, 2009 @ 10:45 a.m.

Sorry, jayallen, but again, everything you have written indicates you are viewing this through your end of the lens. I know you understand what I'm saying, and I certainly understand what you're saying. News as entertainment; yes, the Stringer stories, and thus the Reader, is perhaps guilty of that. You argue that it isn't news and that somehow that should be clear. Is it? Do you think the average reader is going to parse through the distinctions you write about when they come to this site? Sure, there are those who will get it, but there will be those who don't, or don't care. Let me suggest that the family of the person whose dead body (excuse me, I mean no offense to the victim's family) is posted in a picture on the site would be in that category. To put it another way, I doubt if any of us here, Reader staff included, would appreciate seeing a picture like that of a loved one or a friend on the Reader home page.

I also wonder if, bsaed on your comments, the Reader isn't trying to have it both ways. Are you a serious news organization, as some of your articles seem to indicate? If only some of your work is serious, and some is in fun, and some is mixed together, then it would perhaps be in your best interest to take more care in the overlap. Just saying.

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SDaniels Oct. 27, 2009 @ 12:44 p.m.

This is a most interesting discussion, and I look forward to hearing jayallen's reply to #21. I was also wondering about the distinction between staff blogs and news. What are the criteria for staff blogs, if any? They are clearly not held to similar standards as a published news or cover story, but are they held to any standards, or are they considered to be on par with whatever--as you put it, jayallen--just some yahoo is posting as a stringer or personal blog? I appreciate your taking the time to parse out these differences :)

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Jay Allen Sanford Oct. 27, 2009 @ 1:58 p.m.

Do you think the average reader is going to parse through the distinctions you write about when they come to this site?

No, I don't. And that's why I feel compelled to clarify when someone assumes a stringer post is the same as a reporter's news story. It's a problem. A big one.

I also wonder if, bsaed on your comments, the Reader isn't trying to have it both ways. Are you a serious news organization, as some of your articles seem to indicate? If only some of your work is serious, and some is in fun, and some is mixed together, then it would perhaps be in your best interest to take more care in the overlap. Just saying.

I agree - the difference SHOULD be made more clear in the website presentation. I do not represent or speak for the Reader - I just work here. I bring up - and possibly belabor - this stringer-vs-reporter point by way of encouraging some kind of onsite clarification. I'm talking to website administration about this and similar topics - the site is always being tweaked and improved a bit as we figure these things out.

In order to present this topic on a more up-to-date page - a page without a photo of an unfortunate murder victim - please post future related comments to http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs...

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David Dodd Oct. 27, 2009 @ 2:47 p.m.

@jayallen

Jay, I sincerely and respectfully believe that you do not understand the role of a stringer. It makes me wonder if you understand the role of an editor. While many, and perhaps most stringers do not have the journalism background that staff writers have traditionally carried, the job is the same. Report, give specific details, make no assumptions. Editors are charged with ensuring this process.

Stringers bring stories that staff reporters cannot cover, for whatever reason. Almost all newspapers buy stories from stringers.

Regarding the photograph, I did not comment initially because I do not wish to insult those who are offended by it. But now, this needs to be said, so I'll say it, and please, those who knew the victim or are otherwise not pleased with the photo, don't take offense - it isn't my desire to offend.

In the U.S., and much of Europe, journalism considers the publication of death photographs as bad taste. This isn't the case in many other countries. Here in Mexico, it is done often. It doesn't make their brand of journalism any less valid. In fact, it may make it more honest in many respects. Having grown up in the U.S., I was somewhat surprised by this practice when I first came here, but I have come to accept that a story is a story and a photograph that represents the story is part of the story.

To me, the photograph was quite innocuous.

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CuddleFish Oct. 27, 2009 @ 2:57 p.m.

"To me" Operative words.

With respect, if God Forbid your daughter was raped, stabbed, left naked on the street, and someone took a picture and posted it on the Reader website, I'm sure you would feel exactly as you do now, and good for you. Let me suggest others would feel very differently about their daughters.

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SDaniels Oct. 27, 2009 @ 3 p.m.

Cuddle, you know the convo has moved to the link I posted above, where you have begun reposting--can you guys keep it over there, in one place, so we can follow? :)

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CuddleFish Oct. 27, 2009 @ 3:03 p.m.

Daniels, it was my intention to keep the discussion to that other thread, but since both the posts above mine were posted here, including the one by the author who has for whatever reason decided to answer in both sections, I thought it would be appropriate to respond here.

Somebody needs to take control here, thanks for your efforts.

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David Dodd Oct. 27, 2009 @ 3:08 p.m.

Dearest Cuddlefish:

If that were any of my three daughters in the photograph, my opinion would not change. Let me suggest that reporters have a job to do, and while that job might not always be pleasant, it is certainly necessary. The truth is much more important than the comfort of humanity.

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CuddleFish Oct. 27, 2009 @ 3:24 p.m.

I believe that's what I said you would say. And what I said is that other people, I dare say the vast majority of Americans, would disagree. Speaking for myself personally, if that were a picture of my child, I would immediately request that the picture be removed, and if the request was not honored then I would seek legal advice.

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David Dodd Oct. 27, 2009 @ 3:32 p.m.

I would not seek to have the image removed. I wouldn't want to look at it, but I think that truth is much more important than putting up a shield to hide the fact that people are murdered. The opposite upsets me more. First, the photo goes away. Then, the story doesn't get written. Then, we're in complete denial. It becomes more difficult to fix problems when we are forbidden to see or know about them.

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CuddleFish Oct. 27, 2009 @ 3:41 p.m.

Not posting a picture in no way disguises the fact that people are murdered. You know, not everything is a Second Amendment argument. An argument could be made that viewing pictures like that every day could lead to other more detrimental effects, including dehumanization, and desensitization, much as with video games. People are not arbitrary objects in a lesson. Bodies are not things with which to make a point.

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PistolPete Oct. 27, 2009 @ 3:53 p.m.

Video games? HA! Don't tell me you're so smart that you overlook the obvious in order to not offend someone. HELLOOOOOOO? Anyone home in there,CuddleFish? LIFE is offensive. I'm so tired of individuals overanalyzing the simple facts of life....

Guns don't kill people....PEOPLE kill people.

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CuddleFish Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:01 p.m.

Excuse me, of course, I meant to say First Amendment. Freudian slip, anyone?

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antigeekess Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:04 p.m.

"...Freudian slip, anyone?"

Why, because you felt like shooting somebody when you (mis)typed that?

:)

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CuddleFish Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:11 p.m.

LOLOLOL Invoking my Fifth Amendment rights on that one, AG!

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PistolPete Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:13 p.m.

My comment didn't have anything to do with either Amendment.....just for the record. Whether you had said 45th Amendment or 1st Amendment,I still stick to me response.

Honestly,CuddleFish,and I mean this in the most non-agressive way,you REALLY need to get out more if a simple picture of a dead body makes you feel that you have to change the world. Instead of trying to change OUR world,perhaps you should change YOUR world.

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antigeekess Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:14 p.m.

"I would not seek to have the image removed. I wouldn't want to look at it, but I think that truth is much more important than putting up a shield to hide the fact that people are murdered. The opposite upsets me more. First, the photo goes away. Then, the story doesn't get written. Then, we're in complete denial. It becomes more difficult to fix problems when we are forbidden to see or know about them."

See, THIS is the problem. This RIGHT HERE. Black-and-white thinking. "The opposite upsets me more." Contrary to Western thinking, and contrary to Western politics, everything does not have to exist in terms of polar opposites. "First, the photo goes away." The end.

Everything is not a damned "slippery slope." Everything does not have to be one EXTREME or the other. Each political party in this country, for example, is so afraid of "getting the ball rolling toward the other side" that nobody will ever be reasonable about anything.

Europe knows that it's all about common sense, common decency, and the common good. Consideration for one's neighbor, manners, ethics. Those are always to be found on the Middle Path.

Listen to Buddha, for Chrissake.

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David Dodd Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:15 p.m.

CuddleFish, where I live, the 1st and 2nd Amendments do not apply.

However, freedom of speech and expression and freedom of the press is covered in the constitution.

"People are not arbitrary objects in a lesson."

Yes, they are. There would be no point to life if life did not teach a lesson, therefore, there would not be a point in death, if death did not teach a lesson.

"Bodies are not things with which to make a point."

The fallen soldiers in every war ever fought for freedom would completely disagree with that statement.

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David Dodd Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:16 p.m.

AG: I bet Buddha would not have a problem with that photo.

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antigeekess Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:17 p.m.

"LOLOLOL Invoking my Fifth Amendment rights on that one, AG!"

So let me get this straight, Cuddle:

a.)You meant to type "1st" b.)But instead you typed "2nd" c.)So now you're pleading the 5th?

My head hurts. :/

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CuddleFish Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:26 p.m.

That Constitution thing is pretty handy, AG!!!

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antigeekess Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:31 p.m.

"AG: I bet Buddha would not have a problem with that photo."

I'm not gonna put words in Buddha's mouth. But I'd speculate that you're probably wrong about that.

Anyone? Buddhists...Buddhists...Buddhists?

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PistolPete Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:34 p.m.

I am by no means an expert on Buddhism but I have read quite a bit collectively over the years. I'd say refried was correct on this one. The Buddhists are a pretty non-conforming people. They don't rock the boat because if it tipped,it might sink and there goes the fishing for the week.

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CuddleFish Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:39 p.m.

Don't go puttings words in the Buddha's mouth, AG! ;)

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David Dodd Oct. 27, 2009 @ 4:40 p.m.

I'm thinking that if a Buddhist monk is willing to protest by setting himself on fire, that an image of a dead man in a stringer story would certainly not be an issue.

http://tinyurl.com/yfo297a

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Jay Allen Sanford Oct. 27, 2009 @ 5:39 p.m.

The stringer who originally posted this entry and photo has only posted one time to the stringer section of Reader site, at least under the Eng byline. Back in May, 2009. Tho the bulk of the subsequent debate has moved to the more-current page, seems worth noting -

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 27, 2009 @ 6:04 p.m.

I'm thinking that if a Buddhist monk is willing to protest by setting himself on fire, that an image of a dead man in a stringer story would certainly not be an issue.

http://tinyurl.com/yfo297a

By refriedgringo

I knew not hit that link, but like a train wreck I had to take a peek.

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David Dodd Oct. 27, 2009 @ 6:12 p.m.

Actually, SurfPuppy, it's the album cover for Rage Against The Machine's debut album. And the photograph is authentic: "The cover features a photo of Thích Quảng Đức, a Vietnamese Buddhist monk, burning himself to death in Saigon in 1963. The monk was protesting President Ngô Đình Diệm's administration for oppressing the Buddhist religion." This, according to Wiki.

My point is that these things happen in the world, and we, as cognizant participants of society, have the responsibility to not turn our backs to it, nor on it. It isn't to say that we should promote such photography in the name of free press, but rather, that if it is honest, and innocuous, we should at the very least permit it and at the very most praise it in the name of truth.

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antigeekess Oct. 27, 2009 @ 7:13 p.m.

I don't need to look at the link of the monk who set himself on fire; it's a famous enough photo.

But how a photo conveying a deliberate act, performed by a living individual's own conscious choice, in order to convey an important political message compares with a dead body in the street, I have no idea.

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David Dodd Oct. 27, 2009 @ 7:35 p.m.

"But how a photo conveying a deliberate act, performed by a living individual's own conscious choice, in order to convey an important political message compares with a dead body in the street, I have no idea."

Neither photograph is easy on the eyes. And both were taken by journalists. Both conveyed the truth. I'm assuming you're looking for a connection here, AG.

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antigeekess Oct. 27, 2009 @ 8:11 p.m.

Re #51:

One was absolutely necessary to make a point that the individual himself wanted to make. It's an iconic photo featuring an act of defiance by an individual who was willing to die for his beliefs. It's an inspirational photo; the individual wanted it to be seen. Performed in public, to be seen by the public. On purpose.

The other was not only completely unnecessary to relay the story connected to it, but the indvidual involved had no choice whatsoever about how his lifeless body was displayed to the public. Do you really think HE would have preferred that picture to be shown to the public? Not just due to his own wishes, but do you not think that he'd have considered how it might affect his family and friends?

No comparison whatsoever.

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PistolPete Oct. 27, 2009 @ 8:13 p.m.

You and CuddleFish just don't get it. But I digress,I guess that's par for the course when you pay to learn fancy words....

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David Dodd Oct. 27, 2009 @ 8:28 p.m.

I give up.

I reckon that no censorship only applies to, well, the censors. It's funny to read and hear about politics and religion, and then to read and hear about how politics and religion shouldn't be read or watched, and then the opposite, in how athiests and the politically correct should be outlawed. Publish a picture of a dead person, and the same people who seemingly fight censorship rise to defend those who would censor the photograph.

I seriously have a big giant problem with this mind-set. It is so entirely illogical to me, I have no way to begin to explain it.

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PistolPete Oct. 27, 2009 @ 8:33 p.m.

I'm with ya refried. Must be a female thing. In fact,I'd gaurantee it's a female thing. Men don't act like this.

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antigeekess Oct. 27, 2009 @ 8:45 p.m.

I'm not completely anti-censorship, but both of you already know that. Europe does just fine with the restrictions they have on free speech, all of which have been cited in another thread. But here they are again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_...

Re #53: That doesn't address anything I said. And I didn't use any words I'd consider "fancy."

Re #54: Those are broad, general statements about "politics and religion" that don't address this situation, or even these types of situations in general.

This was a specific case about publishing a picture of a deceased individual, who obviously had no say in the matter. He was not a public figure. Doesn't everyone but a public figure have to sign a release before their pic even gets published? Seems like the dead would get as much respect as the living.

Oh, I forgot, this is not "published." That's the out, isn't it?

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antigeekess Oct. 27, 2009 @ 8:53 p.m.

"I'm with ya refried. Must be a female thing. In fact,I'd gaurantee it's a female thing. Men don't act like this."

I started to make a comment about "male logic," but refrained. Sorry I bothered.

It's about what's good for society versus selfishness. That's what Europe understands that America doesn't. Perhaps it's also what females (in general) understand, while men (in general) choose not to.

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David Dodd Oct. 27, 2009 @ 8:57 p.m.

AG, after this comment, I'll bow out of this and give you the last word, but if you want to return to the original photograph, I'm all in. Looking at it, there is no way in the world I could possibly identify the body, it might as well be my own brother. Therefor, innoculous. I don't get the fall-out. It's unwarranted.

I open the papers here, and on page seven, I get a dead guy's face, bloodied, full of bullets. The only thing that goes through my mind? This is what happens. Death is death. Bodies are bodies. I have no problem with publication of the truth.

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PistolPete Oct. 27, 2009 @ 8:59 p.m.

Here we go again with Europesigh....AG-We may NEVER see eye to eye on different things in life but seriously,you sound like a spoiled teenager who always threatens to run away if you don't get what you want. There's a reason why we're not Europe. Why can't you see that? You love Europe? Hey! Great! If I buy you a one-way ticket with the promise you'll stay there,will you accept it?

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 27, 2009 @ 9:16 p.m.

AG-We may NEVER see eye to eye on different things in life but seriously,you sound like a spoiled teenager who always threatens to run away if you don't get what you want.

Oooooo..SNAP, Anti will never recover!

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antigeekess Oct. 27, 2009 @ 9:17 p.m.

Re #59:

(Insult not worth addressing). Yup, there's a reason we're not Europe. This country's 200 years old and basically acts like the big, clueless baby that it is. They have centuries and centuries of experience at how to live, and are older and wiser.

If you want to buy me a ticket, fork over enough money so that I can be independently wealthy and not worry about a job, and set me up with a hot Italian guy to marry for citizenship, I'm all in.

On second thought, just email me and I'll let you know the PayPal account to transfer all your funds to. I'll find my own hot Italian boy when I get there.

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CuddleFish Oct. 27, 2009 @ 9:24 p.m.

Why, I ask myself, why, does an intelligent and sensible woman like AG respond to idiotic and senseless comments?

I answer myself (I do that a lot), because she is a generous and kind-hearted woman who against all evidence really believes that talking patiently and slowly over and over again will eventually instill a brain into a box of rocks.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 27, 2009 @ 9:25 p.m.

This country's 200 years old and basically acts like the big, clueless baby that it is. They have centuries and centuries of experience at how to live, and are older and wiser.

Please, don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.

I don't get why some, very few, of our own citizens talk this way about our country. America is not perfect, but it is so far ahead of anywhere else in the world-including Europe.

America, and Americans, are the most open, caring, and suporting country/people in the world.

This is a great country-and when people slam it, like AG just did-it makes me wonder why. Who did them so wrong that they would make such comments?

AG-why do you hate America? Seriously.

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PistolPete Oct. 27, 2009 @ 9:31 p.m.

She hates America because she can't get her own way. It's why she's always taking about her other boyfriend,Europe.

And CuddleFish? It's not really in your best interests to ignore me. By ignoring me,you've not only given up but you're basically given me carte blanch to say what I want about you without you having to defend yourself. So....ignore all ya want and don't forget to be offended by something stupid on your way out! :-D

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David Dodd Oct. 27, 2009 @ 9:36 p.m.

Actually, I agree with AG about America. It's a clueless baby.

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antigeekess Oct. 27, 2009 @ 9:37 p.m.

Jealousy isn't pretty, guys.

And now, I shall take my leave, making sure the door doesn't collide with my ample bootage on my way out.

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PistolPete Oct. 27, 2009 @ 9:42 p.m.

Jealous? of what? :-D As for AG's comment about America,I also agree with that. The only thing is,it's OUR baby. Not just hers. Not just SD's. Not just CuddleFish's. Not just mine. OURS. I think America is the best idea on the planet. It's just not equipped to handle itself. There are too many people who don't understand what our founding documents encompassed. No amount of college education can help those people. They either get it or they don't.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 27, 2009 @ 10:29 p.m.

Actually, I agree with AG about America. It's a clueless baby.

By refriedgringo

You don't live here though.

But I still find these comments odd, considering all the positive and good things this country has accomplished in a relatively short existance.

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Fred Williams Oct. 27, 2009 @ 11:34 p.m.

For those who are chanting "America better than any other country on the planet", let me ask a simple question...

How would you know?

Do you even have a passport? Have you visited other countries? For how long? Have you ever lived and worked in another country?

Do you speak any language other than English?

I love the country of my birth. There's a lot to admire about the USA.

But it's far from the "best" in a lot of ways.

Americans who repeat the "USA #1" line usually have no standing to make the claim, having never experienced living anywhere else.

These same dolts react angrily when they're told that other countries do in fact have merits that exceed America's. Inevitably, they say "love it or leave it" or the asinine "don't let the door hit you on the way out".

To them, I respond with a hearty "F*** You!"

Until you've actually been somewhere else so that you CAN make a comparison, shut your pseudo-patriotic pie-holes.

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CuddleFish Oct. 27, 2009 @ 11:37 p.m.

shut your pseudo-patriotic pie-holes.

By Fred_Williams 11:34 p.m., Oct 27, 2009

I second that emotion!!!

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rickeysays Oct. 28, 2009 @ 12:39 a.m.

Refried, I came into this late, but I have to ask you....if you believe in unlimited free speech, do you believe in publishing the names and pictures of rape victims? How 'bout children who've been molested? If so, why? As for everyone's patriotism debate. While it's true that it's the biggest idiots that wave the flag the hardest, it's also true that this is the greatest nation this planet has ever seen, the greatest force for good this planet has ever had, and if you disagree with that you're either ignorant, or too blinded by your own ideology.

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PistolPete Oct. 28, 2009 @ 1:06 a.m.

I totally agree with rickey on this one. I LOVE my country. I have no need to visit other countries. This IS the greatest social experiment since Jesus walked the Earth. Can we improve? You betcha! Are we the best country? Not a chance. For everything that this country lacks compared to other countries,we make up for in our people.

Being a rape victim myself,I'd have to say that had I come forward sooner than the statute of limitations expired,I wouldn't mind being named in the press. EVERYONE accused of a crime has the right to face his accuser. I've held that principle for as long as I can remember. Why would I give up something more important than myself just to not be named? I'm not famous. Nobody would give two s***s about me.

William Atherton played an egotistical reporter named Richard Thornburg in the first two Die Hard movies. In the second one there's a scene when he is looking out the window and is right next to Holly Gennaro. She asks him why ne wants to see what's going on out the window. He goes into a short diatribe on people's natural curiosity. He says something along the lines of"Everyone has the right to know everything about everybody". I agree with that statement. We DO have the right to know. It's called the 1st Amendment. It's up to us however to set guidelines and standards that toe the line between privacy and free speech. We're starting to fail miserably.

I'll give you an example. Here in California,cameras are allowed in the courtroom. Certain things aren't showable like juries or sometimes defendant's faces. The reason they don't allow defendant's faces on hot button court proceedings is so that other inmates watching TV in the dayroom or cells don't decided to exact revenge. Yet,one can go onto CBS 8 or any of the other news sites and see that same person that you just saw with a blurry face in all his/her glory. Another thing I've noticed locally and sometimes nationally is when a girl goes missing and they show her face but two days later when you find out she was raped,they blur it. Makes absolutely no sense.

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Josh Board Oct. 28, 2009 @ 1:30 a.m.

I'll stick with debating Fred, as he's a man, and can handle the debate without a major freak out.

Fred, if you think there are so many better countries than America, can you name them?

Because, I know when the pie-hole, pie eating Michael Moore did his list in Sicko, on coutries that had better health care, he had America down at #35 or something. And he had Cuba and Canada (and I'm just in the c-section) as having better health care. Anybody with a brain, knows this is simply not the case.

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PistolPete Oct. 28, 2009 @ 1:33 a.m.

If CanaDUH has such awesome healthcare,why do people flock here for surgery? O_o

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 28, 2009 @ 8:06 a.m.

LMAO! He's dead right,refried. :-D

By PistolPete

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwigqAKnLT8&feature=PlayList&p=6A1E5F544DE8ED50&index=1

================================== I swear, Team America: World Police was one of the coolest movies ever!

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 28, 2009 @ 8:17 a.m.

For those who are chanting "America better than any other country on the planet", let me ask a simple question...

How would you know? THE SAME WAY I KNOW I WOULD IRAQ, NORTH KOREA AND CHINA SUCKS.

Do you even have a passport? YES

Have you visited other countries? YES

For how long? LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW

Have you ever lived and worked in another country? IF NOT, DOES THAT MEAN I AM NOT QUALIFIED TO ANSWER??

Do you speak any language other than English? YES

I love the country of my birth. There's a lot to admire about the USA.

But it's far from the "best" in a lot of ways.

Americans who repeat the "USA #1" line usually have no standing to make the claim, having never experienced living anywhere else. WHY DOES ONE HAVE TO "experience" LIVING SOMEWHERE ELSE TO GIVE AN INFORMED OPINION?? I HAVE NEVER SHOT MYSELF IN THE LEG WITH A .45 EITHER-BUT I STILL KNOW IT WOULD HURT.

These same dolts react angrily when they're told that other countries do in fact have merits that exceed America's. NOW ANYONE WHO FRED DOES NOT AGREE WITH IS A "DOLT".

***For the record fred, no one said other countries don't have merits that exceed America, I think I said Americans "are the most open, caring, and suporting country/people in the world."

And if you live here and take full advantage of this country and it's culture-yet then bash it by saying things such as;

"This country's 200 years old and basically acts like the big, clueless baby that it is."

then us "dolts react angrily" and with good reason. So put that in your "pseudo-patriotic pie-hole" and smoke it!***

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Duhbya Oct. 28, 2009 @ 8:42 a.m.

SurfP - I might add "Your view of the world and America's place in it" to your admonition a few days ago:

Duhbya-never talk politics or relegion- it only adds up to trouble (unless of course the person with whom you are talking shares your viewpoint-then it can be a rant fest!).

By SurfPuppy619 8:59 a.m., Oct 25, 2009 > Report it ;>)

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 28, 2009 @ 8:57 a.m.

Is this politics though Duhbya? or current events? or pride? or soul searching?

I don't know to be honest. But I do know it does upset me when people bash the country, and I do mean bash.

Who knows, maybe I am over reacting on this. Maybe not.

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CuddleFish Oct. 28, 2009 @ 8:59 a.m.

Who knows, maybe I am over reacting on this. Maybe not.

By SurfPuppy619 8:57 a.m., Oct 28, 2009

You are. :)

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 28, 2009 @ 11:48 a.m.

Incoming City Attorney, Jan Goldsmith, praised Kay’s 40 years worth of experience during comments to the city council, despite Kay’s failed negotiation attempt during the 2005 labor talks.

Once again, JF makes another bogus comment.

They may have hired these clowns to "negotiate", but the council is the last, and final, word on all city contracts. So the "negotiations" are meaningless because the council are the ones who make the deal, as happened in 2005. See above.

In addition, the council gives the lawyers limits on terms and conditions, so these lawyers are not really negotiators at all, but more or less just middle men/buffers.

I have to wonder why they bring in an outside law firm though. The City Attorney should be doing all of this in house.

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PistolPete Oct. 28, 2009 @ 11:50 a.m.

I think you've got the wrong thread,SP.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 28, 2009 @ 11:50 a.m.

You are. :)

By CuddleFish

Thanks Cuddlefish- you just made me cry.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 28, 2009 @ 11:53 a.m.

Yes, I posted that in this thread by accident-don't ask mem how I did that-I have no idea how that happened.

As TAM1079 would say "Someone must have moved it intentionally!!!"

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David Dodd Oct. 28, 2009 @ 12:11 p.m.

"Refried, I came into this late, but I have to ask you....if you believe in unlimited free speech, do you believe in publishing the names and pictures of rape victims? How 'bout children who've been molested? If so, why?"

I believe in the truth. I believe in publishing what is necessary and informative. I have no issue with publishing names, but I do not disagree with any publication that refrains from doing so, because most of the time it isn't necessary nor informative. Publishing a picture of death (at a long enough distance from the body as to make the body unrecognizable) isn't necessary but it is informative. It shows how the body was apparently found, and possibly could provide an unwitting witness with the ability to see and remember something that could help in solving a crime.

Society needs to balance out the notion of importance between the different extremes of protecting the identity of the victim of a crime and providing the reader with the means of obtaining a reasonable amount of information about the crime.

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antigeekess Oct. 28, 2009 @ 8:51 p.m.

The delusional SurfPuppy yapped:

"America, and Americans, are the most open, caring, and suporting country/people in the world."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFO1b9I-u5Q

Note that the only ones who stand up for the black woman in the store -- with the exception of one lady who gets very upset -- is a black man, and a group of women from outside the U.S. Most of your "caring, suporting [sic]" Americans don't do squat.

I've seen a number of these experiments run. The average American sees a person in distress, and walks right on by. Those that stop to assist usually have a FOREIGN ACCENT of some type.

Here's another example of your caring Americans: My 72-year-old neighbor, a Korean War veteran, recently fell in Costco. Not only did people look right at him and go on about shopping for all their crap, people actually STEPPED OVER HIM. Who finally helped him get up? A little old lady, even older and more frail than he. She was, however, American.

On an up note: New Jersey, however, seems to be the exception. New Jersey kicks A$$! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvzj8w...

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rickeysays Oct. 28, 2009 @ 8:53 p.m.

A neatly evasive non-answer, Refried.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 28, 2009 @ 10:16 p.m.

Note that the only ones who stand up for the black woman in the store -- with the exception of one lady who gets very upset -- is a black man, and a group of women from outside the U.S. Most of your "caring, suporting [sic]" Americans don't do squat.

By antigeekess

Wow, talk about PMSing.

Go back to bed Ms Grouchy.

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PistolPete Oct. 28, 2009 @ 10:23 p.m.

AG-All politics aside,as an American I'm ashamed to say that I'm from the same country as the people depicted in those clips.

As for the politics,it's a cold,hard fact of life. People are profiled. It's up to the black community to step up to the plate and tell themselves"HEY DICKHEAD! I'd like to shop where I want. Quit being a ghetto rat and f*in' it up for the rest of us." Instead,they relie on liberal bleeding hearts and Jesse and Al to do their bidding for them. It all comes down to personal responsibility. Same goes for the kids in Jersey. #1-I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that those people came to the aid of those homeless people because when the mafia still ran the streets,they instilled a different set of values in their towns. I wish the mafia was still as strong today as it was 25 years ago. #2-It's parents responsibility to to make sure that the product of their loins aren't acting like aholes.

Those things that were re-enacted DO happen in America and that's a shame. However,I'm sure those two examples also happen in Europe. America gives the most tax-payer funded humanitarian aide than any other country on Earth. That's a fact.

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David Dodd Oct. 29, 2009 @ 12:21 a.m.

Rickey, I'm being honest.

If I own a paper, there is no rule or policy about not printing photos or naming names, but it does depend on the circumstances and whether or not it would do good rather than simply be exploitative. Would I name a child victimized by a child molester? You bet I would, if it would help to catch the bastard. Would I be popular for that decisioin? Nope. And, if it led to the arrest of the perpetrator, I would still likely get my butt kicked around town, but it would be for the good of the society that I serviced, so I could live with that.

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rickeysays Oct. 29, 2009 @ 12:23 a.m.

AG, I just saw a film at the Asian Film Festival about a little girl in Beijing who loses her bus pass, and has to try and get home by herself. It was interesting to watch people on the street pass her by and ignore her, and a little boy with her, as they asked for help from passers-by, the way people do to homeless adults here. I've never been to China, but I assume the movie is reflecting a realistic situation. I have been to Mexico, however, and I've seen the way they treat their people, especially their homeless children, and although an admittedly small sample, so far America's looking pretty good in comparison.

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Fred Williams Oct. 29, 2009 @ 12:25 a.m.

I readily agree that the USA is great in many ways. Doing business, for example, is far easier with less paperwork and taxes than elsewhere. Also, rude petty corruption is relatively rare in the USA (though we all know that polite massive corruption is far too common).

Freedom happens to be important to me. I served four years in the Navy during Reagan's second term out of simple idealism. I hated what the communists were doing to their own people, prosecuting thought crimes, a repressive justice system and police that beat student protesters with impunity.

When the wall fell, I came to Prague. I've kept coming back over the years.

Freedom in the Czech Republic is far greater than in the USA. Czechs, as a general rule, are far better educated than most Americans and typically speak two or three languages. Reading books here is NORMAL and POPULAR. (Imagine that!)

The women(on average)are far better looking than Americans. The beer here is the best in the world...and affordable.

And back in America? The beer's gotten much better in the last twenty years, but the women have grown fatter and less attractive. Reading continues to decline. Multi-lingualism is rare. I think most will agree that our K-12 education system is in bad shape.

Most importantly, freedom in the USA has been drastically curtailed in the last decade. The "land of the free" now willingly participates in a security-state charade, submitting to undeserving authority out of fear. Monitoring innocent citizens is common place, prosecutors and police have practical impunity for crimes, and machine gun toting stormtroopers are swarming in to bust up medical marijuana collectives.

I'm still the same idealist, and now I have to recognize that my own country is going down the same path as the authoritarians of other regimes.

It's hard to say America is the "best" when it betrays its own ideals so readily.

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rickeysays Oct. 29, 2009 @ 12:26 a.m.

Refried, although I respect your defense of free speech, I think you go a little too far. But I'll defend to the death your right to be wrong.

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Fred Williams Oct. 29, 2009 @ 12:27 a.m.

huh...the first half of the previous post was lost...weird...so that's why it starts so abruptly.

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Fred Williams Oct. 29, 2009 @ 12:33 a.m.

Rickey, you make a good point.

Anti-social behavior is commonplace in EVERY culture. Especially in cities.

Violence, however, is a different story. America is way out front in the post-industrial world when it comes to committing acts of violence.

We lead the world in imprisoning people too.

USA! USA! USA! We can put the most away!

Our typical universities are unrivaled in excellence. Our typical high schools are unrivaled in mediocrity.

America was always "best" when it represented an ideal.

Sadly, it doesn't do that so well anymore. Patriotism has become like religion...it's just not based on fact.

And anyone who points out that other countries have a lot of things going for them (not bashing America, just saying others do some things better) hears the enraged snarls of zealots.

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Fred Williams Oct. 29, 2009 @ 12:35 a.m.

Sorry to leave this here. I really miss the first part of what I wrote and failed to post, but I don't have time now to reconstruct it.

Time to go to work, my friends.

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rickeysays Oct. 29, 2009 @ 12:37 a.m.

Fred, although I recognize nuggets of truth in what you say, you exagerate beyond reason. "Monitoring innocent citizens is common place"-REALLY? COMMONPLACE? REMEMBER BUSH IS GONE. "prosecutors and police have practical impunity for crimes",-JUST BECAUSE YOU HATE COPS DOESN'T MEAN THEY OPPERATE WITH IMPUNITY. IN FACT IT'S BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU, WHO ARE READY TO BURY THEM GIVEN THE CHANCE, THAT THEY DON'T "and machine gun toting stormtroopers are swarming in to bust up medical marijuana collectives"-ALTHOUGH I'M FOR LEGALIZATION, IT'S NOT LEGAL YET. THE BATTLE CONTINUES. ALTHOUGH I DON'T AGREE WITH THE RAIDS, COMPARING THEM TO NAZIS EXPOSES THE SILLINESS OF YOUR WORLD-VIEW. (Or were you comparing them to Star Wars characters?

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rickeysays Oct. 29, 2009 @ 12:48 a.m.

Everyone, including Fred likes to cite the ideals our country was founded on, and say we aren't living up to them. Well one of those ideals is "give us your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to be free". We live up to that by the millions every year. Want to know why we have the highest rates of violence and incarceration? Look no further. We give people the freedom to make their choice of how to live their life. But if they choose to be a predator on society, we hold them responsible for those choices. BTW this also goes a long way toward explaining the mediocre students coming out of our schools. Kids get to make their choices too.

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David Dodd Oct. 29, 2009 @ 12:53 a.m.

Fred, I so totally and completely agree. Too bad the first part of your response in this thread didn't print. Exactly and precisely accurate, Americans seem to feel that they have some sort of a copyright on freedom, and really, it doesn't work that way. I love America very much, but have come to realize that many Americans aren't all that hip to what other countries admire about freedom.

Rickey, I'm not out to disgrace a family or offend people, but once-upon-a-time journalism was more than simply a mouthpiece of political correctness and a service to politicians. Newspapers used to value truth and service to the community more than circulation. Those days are long gone, and apparently, so are newspapers.

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SDaniels Oct. 29, 2009 @ 4:35 a.m.

Fred puffed:

"And back in America? The beer's gotten much better in the last twenty years, but the women have grown fatter and less attractive."

I'm so sure that the women of America are mourning the loss of Fred "the Humongous" something or other.

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Fred Williams Oct. 29, 2009 @ 8:55 a.m.

Rickey, I specialize in technical documentation in IT/Telcom. I can show you exactly how it's done...from sniffing the packets to identifying the call data records and recording the actual data streams.

I guarantee you that the monitoring of inncent citizens continues. Obama's election, regretfully, has changed nothing.

Furthermore, tell me the last time a San Diego cop was actually prosecuted for official misconduct.

In addition, immigrants are LESS likely to commit crimes than the native born.

When I call medical marijuana raiders "stormtroopers" it's referencing the uniforms and behaviors of both the SS and the Empire's fictional soldiers on the death star. I'm neither the first nor last to make the comparison because it is both apt and justified.

Rickey, I've got both the experience and skills to back up what I've written.

Have you?

I use my real name, and it's surprisingly easy to find out all kinds of information about me, verifying what I claim here not only about technology but also about police abuse of the laws.

Again, to those of you who automatically attack someone just because they can point to some of America's flaws and confidently say that things are done better elsewhere...

"F* Y!"

Please shut your pseudo-patriotic pie holes. You are NOT America, and you are simply ignorant of how the real world operates. You can have all the opinions you like...but frankly, your opinions are worth very little because you clearly have no evidence or experience to back you up.

Anyone who's travelled sees their native country in a new light afterward. I repeat...have any of you chest thumpers ever been anywhere or done anything outside your comfortable little fantasy world where America is #1 at EVERYTHING?

Please grow up. Get over the "my country can beat up your country" phase and face reality. America is in serious decline. Your hysterical reaction to honest and reasonable criticism is yet more proof of same.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 29, 2009 @ 12:10 p.m.

The women(on average)are far better looking than Americans

Fred_Williams

That was the FINAL straw-this is WAR Fred.

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PistolPete Oct. 29, 2009 @ 12:48 p.m.

He does make a good point,SP. I'm living proof of a fat,lazy American. I take pride in that fact only because it's ultimately up to me to lose weight and this country allows me the ability to lose or gain weight as I see fit. Americans are pretty much either overweight or get too much plastic surgery. All one has to do is go to their local Wally World or open the Reader to find this out. Europeans have got us beat in a number of things. However,we will always have them beat when it comes to our freedoms and quality of life overall. Fred also brings up a good point on Americans being so lazy that they're willing to allow those same freedoms that men and women have died for throught our 233 year old history.

American Woman: http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/?p=5909

European Woman: http://www.romantic-future.com/

I'm sure Fred will tell us if those are REALLY what Czech women look like,right old salty dog? ;-D

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 29, 2009 @ 4:58 p.m.

http://www.romantic-future.com/

Those chickies cannot even come close to comparing to my AMERICAN babe (WARNING: sit down when viewing said link of SP's babe, can cause extreme excitement!);

http://www.baxterboo.com/catdogblog/assets/content//lady-and-tramp.jpg

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JF Oct. 29, 2009 @ 5:45 p.m.

Anyone who's travelled sees their native country in a new light afterward.

Unfortunately, that's not true.

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rickeysays Oct. 29, 2009 @ 7:35 p.m.

Fred you've got the same problem Fish has. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is an ignorant idiot who should just shut their piehole and "be quiet, the grownups are talking". I'm sorry but I'm not so blinded by ideology that I can't see all the good this country does. Does that mean I'm a Fox News watching, Rush Limbaugh listening, Bush supporting, bible thumping flag waver. No. But I also don't have to be an America hating, police attacking, criminal excusing, politically correct douchebag. This country is not perfect. People are not perfect. But people like you idealize "over there", Europe or anywhere but here, and refuse to acknowledge the bad things that happen in other parts of the world, or the good things us ugly Americans do.

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David Dodd Oct. 29, 2009 @ 7:59 p.m.

Rickey, I have had my disagreements with Fred, but his point about stepping outside of the forest to see the trees is somewhat accurate, in my opinion. One really does gain a unique perspective once outside of the place for a while. It isn't to say that the U.S. is this horrible place, but more to see it in a perspective that you never before considered.

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rickeysays Oct. 29, 2009 @ 8:13 p.m.

Refried I'm a huge fan of perspective. I think mine is pretty good. I think Fred has none.

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antigeekess Oct. 29, 2009 @ 8:34 p.m.

Fred lamented:

"...machine gun toting stormtroopers are swarming in to bust up medical marijuana collectives."

I think that should be over as of about a week ago, Fred.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/19/AR2009101903638.html

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PistolPete Oct. 29, 2009 @ 8:42 p.m.

"...or people who use the state laws as a cover." I'm sure the city clowncil is salivating over these words.

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Fred Williams Oct. 29, 2009 @ 9:05 p.m.

Rickey, you can have your opinions, based on....well, it's not clear what, other than offended emotionality.

I have not "bashed" America. I've stated some well known truths. You reacted the way I predicted, by foaming at the mouth and attacking me personally.

Most countries, I'll eagerly agree, are not as good to live in as the U.S. I've been to some real s***holes around the world.

But there are many countries that have aspects which are superior to America. These include public safety, wealth of culture, access to oportunities, better education and health systems.

None of these countries have to beat their chests about how wonderful they are. They simply get on with the work at hand.

Now if you could please tell us all exactly how Sweden, Thailand, or the Czech Republic are terrible places to live, I'd be interested in responding. But I suspect you've never been to any of these places, so you simply cannot know.

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Fred Williams Oct. 29, 2009 @ 9:10 p.m.

Czech women, on average, are far better looking than average American women.

They're not just physically more attractive. They're better educated too, more realistic and practical about life and easier to get along with than the typical American woman who has been indoctrinated into a bitter mentality of victimhood.

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Fred Williams Oct. 29, 2009 @ 9:16 p.m.

In San Diego, with Bonnie Dumanis and the old guard on the Board of Supervisors running the show with impunity, the President's decision on medical marijuana means nothing.

They've publicly declared that ALL dispensaries are illegal.

They've sued to block any access at all to medical marijuana.

They continue to prosecute cancer patients, using 105 heavily armed officers in full combat gear to conduct their latest raids.

Compare this to places like Portugal or the Netherlands where decriminalization has led to significant drops in levels of addiction, drops in arrests and associated crime, and savings from directing scarce police resources toward combatting real crimes.

Here in the Czech Republic the police just won't be bothered with chasing after pot smokers. While it's illegal, it's so far down on their priorities that they won't waste their time and effort. You'll never run into teenagers here who were thrown in jail for puffing a bit of weed, then raped, brutalized, and forced to become career criminals.

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CuddleFish Oct. 29, 2009 @ 9:18 p.m.

Czech women, on average, are far better looking than average American women.

They're not just physically more attractive. They're better educated too, more realistic and practical about life and easier to get along with than the typical American woman who has been indoctrinated into a bitter mentality of victimhood.

By Fred_Williams 9:10 p.m., Oct 29, 2009

How To Win Friends And Influence People! LOL

Fred, you charmer, you! Though I will grant better educated, that's true for both American men and women. But prettier? No, sorry. California veemen are the most beautiful veemen in the vorld. I should know! ;)

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CuddleFish Oct. 29, 2009 @ 9:20 p.m.

Compare this to places like Portugal or the Netherlands where decriminalization has led to significant drops in levels of addiction, drops in arrests and associated crime, and savings from directing scarce police resources toward combatting real crimes.

I'd like to see the source cites for this, please.

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Fred Williams Oct. 29, 2009 @ 9:21 p.m.

Freedom is what America used to stand for.

Now the USA leads the world in wire-tapping. The so-called "Lawful Intercept Module" was made mandatory for telco systems world wide...at the demand of the USA. It's a "back door" that allows "authorities" to identify, track, and record any and all communications through mobile, voice, and IP networks.

If you think this is only used against "terrorists" I have some land to sell you in the jungles of Laos.

Obama has pointedly NOT changed this situation. In fact, his strategy seems to be to denounce the excesses of Bush while quietly continuing them.

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PistolPete Oct. 29, 2009 @ 9:25 p.m.

Ah jeez,CuddleFish. If you know ANYTHING about crimes and drugs,which I seriously doubt you do,you'd know that Fred isn't just pulling that fact from his rectum. As I've said before on this issue,America looks like the retarded kid down the block when it comes to drugs. Europe as a whole have bigger fish to fry(pun intended) than going after drug user and petty drug dealers. There too busy allowing the Muslims of the world to totally destroy the UK to care about puffin' a spliff.

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PistolPete Oct. 29, 2009 @ 9:28 p.m.

The best movie a bleeding heart Liberal can watch... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNA... I'll never vote for the son of a bitch again.... We failed with President Shrub. Maybe there's HOPE yet for Obama

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Fred Williams Oct. 29, 2009 @ 9:29 p.m.

Cuddle,

Granted California girls are good looking compared to other American states...but internationally, they don't stand a chance.

Here's a very simple way to check this: Go to Google. Click Images. Type "Czech Women" and look at the first page of results. Now type "American Women" and have a look.

You can type "California women" and get a better batch, but I think everyone would agree that the Czechs are superior.

Think about it...have you noticed how many top models have last names that end in "-ova". Chances are good that this is a Czech girl you're gawking at.

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CuddleFish Oct. 29, 2009 @ 9:38 p.m.

Obama has pointedly NOT changed this situation. In fact, his strategy seems to be to denounce the excesses of Bush while quietly continuing them.

By Fred_Williams 9:21 p.m., Oct 29, 2009

LOL Sing it, Fred!!!

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CuddleFish Oct. 29, 2009 @ 9:46 p.m.

Interesting articles, Fred. You can't really compare Portugal to the United States, of course.

By the way, I don't gawk at girls. I don't swing that way. ;)

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 30, 2009 @ 8:50 a.m.

Lady or the Tramp?

By CuddleFish

Tramp of course :)

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 30, 2009 @ 8:50 a.m.

By the way, I don't gawk at girls. I don't swing that way. ;)

By CuddleFish

But ohhhh, what I would give to see tswing that way just once!

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JF Oct. 30, 2009 @ 9:42 a.m.

Czech women, on average, are far better looking than average American women.

So the obvious question, Fred -- are you looking for a Czech mate?

Sorry folks, but someone had to take the easy bait.

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SDaniels Oct. 30, 2009 @ 9:43 a.m.

Hey Fred, for what it's worth, I happen to agree with most of what you say, but still thought I should point out that your misogyny slip is showing again...and it ain't on the hood of your car, either:

"... and easier to get along with than the typical American woman who has been indoctrinated into a bitter mentality of victimhood."

Spoken like a truly urbane citizen of the world-—NOT.

Sounds like you still SPEAK Amurrican, though…

Yikes! That IS a problem--When you stop foaming at the mouth, are European women kind enough to offer to put a pencil in it, so you don't accidentally bite off your own tongue?

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 30, 2009 @ 12:26 p.m.

Hey Fred, for what it's worth, I happen to agree with most of what you say, but still thought I should point out that your misogyny slip is showing again...and it ain't on the hood of your car, either:

"... and easier to get along with than the typical American woman who has been indoctrinated into a bitter mentality of victimhood."

By SDaniels

I will vouch for Fred on this point.

American women have a sense of entitlement.

(I want to see SD meltdown over that!...hehehehhehehe)

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 30, 2009 @ 12:28 p.m.

California veemen are the most beautiful veemen in the vorld. I should know! ;)

By CuddleFish

Post a pic or it will never be true.

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PistolPete Oct. 30, 2009 @ 1:05 p.m.

I wanted to say pretty much the same thing but figured SD who hunts me down and castrate me. Now she can castrate you! :-D

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SDaniels Oct. 30, 2009 @ 1:16 p.m.

"(I want to see SD meltdown over that!...hehehehhehehe)"

It's gonna take a LOT more than SP's evil giggle, but it is altogether possible: Just as soon as I see a visual of SurfPuppy's REAL girlfriend--without her face obscured by the doggy bowl. :)

Obvious reason why Fred is wrong about Czech women being more beautiful, etc. etc. than other women of the world, and in particular, American women:

Because we have much diversity of type and flavor of folk, the chances of finding your type in our major metropoli--physically and otherwise--is exponentially multiplied.

Unless you are...

a). socially and/or sexually maladjusted, and cannot handle such diversity

b). happen to prefer the less diverse look, etc. of the Czech woman as a matter of convenience, because your banal travel IT job takes you to them.

PS: Fred, it's a courageous online boast--you are just one in a sea of travelers and expats with the right to opine about it all :)

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SDaniels Oct. 30, 2009 @ 1:18 p.m.

re: #135: I thought we heard SP had already been to the Saturday clinic :)

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 30, 2009 @ 4:48 p.m.

?????

By CuddleFish

"Post a pic or it will never be true"...ergo, unless you can prove up you're some hot CA babe, with a picture proof, you can't make the claim!

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 30, 2009 @ 4:50 p.m.

I thought we heard SP had already been to the Saturday clinic :)

By SDaniels

===============

Heh heh :-D Is SP nuetered?

By PistolPete

I will have you know my babe just popped out a full liter of 8 pups, they now call her OctoB*tch!

I'm the ONE BABY!

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Fred Williams Oct. 30, 2009 @ 9:24 p.m.

SDaniels, it's not "misogyny" to point out the obvious...

American women are, on average, FAT!

Fat is NOT attractive.

Czech women, on average, are extremely fit.

Fit is VERY attractive.

Further, your accusations that I'm somehow sexually disfuntional and unable to "handle diversity" is both unsupported and strangely inverted considering I'm the one who's made a living all around the world with my "banal" IT work.

Sounds like you're insulting me only because you disagree with one relatively minor point (even while agreeing with me on most others).

How about addressing the actual topic instead of resorting to the ad hominem?

That said, I think we agree that Americans, men and women, are frequently delusional, basing their lifetime goals on what Thorstein Veblen would call invidious comparison through conspicuous consumption. The most attractive people around the world are NOT trapped in this ugly and wasteful mentality.

Best,

Fred

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CuddleFish Oct. 30, 2009 @ 10:10 p.m.

The typical American woman who has been indoctrinated into a bitter mentality of victimhood.

By Fred_Williams 9:10 p.m., Oct 29, 2009

Living in America with men, results guaranteed.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 30, 2009 @ 10:37 p.m.

Living in America with men, results guaranteed.

By CuddleFish

CuddleFish= MAN hater!

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David Dodd Oct. 30, 2009 @ 10:51 p.m.

"CuddleFish= MAN hater!"

What, you're only NOW reaching that conclusion? lol.

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PistolPete Oct. 30, 2009 @ 10:56 p.m.

I don't enough about her to call her a man hater but she sure is f***ed in the head enough to be one.

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or Oct. 30, 2009 @ 11:20 p.m.

Apparently not all czech women are fit: A study of cancer among overweight people in Europe showed the proportion of new cases of the disease caused by people being fat was highest in women and in central European countries like the Czech Republic, Latvia, Slovenia and Bulgaria.

http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSTRE58N1MN20090924?feedType=RSS&feedName=healthNews

http://www.iotf.org/oonet/czech2.htm#tab1

Apparently, they can get nasty, too: http://www.vaeter-aktuell.de/english/domestic_violence_CZ_20080115.htm

Then there's this little goodie: http://www.thefamilygp.com/women-and-orgasm.htm

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David Dodd Oct. 30, 2009 @ 11:41 p.m.

Oh, this is amazing. Talk about a hijacked thread. It's gone from whether or not it's warranted to photograph a dead body to whether American women or Czech women have a bigger obesity rate. Not that I mind, but rather there should be an award given out for it somewhere.

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PistolPete Oct. 31, 2009 @ 12:15 a.m.

occumsrazor added to the wrong thread.

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PistolPete Oct. 31, 2009 @ 12:17 a.m.

Scratch that. Right thread. Wrong dimension? Even I'm lost. Not that it's a bad thing. I mean,you can talk about the thread subject for so long...

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David Dodd Oct. 31, 2009 @ 12:28 a.m.

Yeah, but I mean, it's surreal if you think about it. You write about making a snowman, which might turn into discussing the preferred method of roasting marshmellows, and now people are offering opinions on women's shoes? It's sort of like that. I think it deserves a trophy.

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Fred Williams Oct. 31, 2009 @ 12:39 a.m.

Occum, you ROCK!!!

I stand refuted. I especially love this about a Czech woman committing "food violence":

"....a woman intentionally put a lot of sugar into her husband's coffee and a lot of oil and fat into his meals to make him fat and less attractive for other women."

Classic.

(and yes, this thread has so completely deviated from its origin that following the twists and turns would require a heavy doses of hallucinogens followed up with severe sleep deprivation)

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SDaniels Oct. 31, 2009 @ 5:56 a.m.

"SDaniels, it's not "misogyny" to point out the obvious..."

“Hatred of or hostility toward women.” Actually, that is a correct spelling (check your dictionary, dude) and an informed observation based on a few of your postings, Fred, including this one.

I'm not suggesting that you are sexually disfunctional-- something I'd not be likely to know. It’s a low blow, though—I apologize for that serving suggestion. I agree that we should stick with the less “relatively minor” points, such as…

…how interesting it is that someone who typically has deep misgivings about NATIONALISM, would fall into the ignorant rhetorical trap of using the much-manipulated figure of the female to make a point about an entire culture or country.

Aside from that very important point: Socially inept, then? Sure--your comment about "fat" women proves it. One ad hominem attack deserves another, right? There are a variety of reasons why people may carry extra physical weight; some of them have to do with health, rather than an across-the-board lazy overconsumption, as you assume. A person’s weight also does not support your assumptions of “fitness,” either. Americans tend to be bigger in frame than Europeans, and bigger in frame than they used to be, even forty years ago.

I don’t judge people based on their weight or appearance, finding it far more useful to critique their social attitudes and personalities. I was surprised to find that this is not the case with you, since you’ve traveled so much and presumably met a variety of people.

“typical American woman who has been indoctrinated into a bitter mentality of victimhood."”

This sounds more like a personal relationship problem than an accurate description of an entire country’s female population. Victimhood? Sure, if we consider your tendency to use again, the figure of the female to stand in for the characteristic ills of an entire culture.

“considering I'm the one who's made a living all around the world with my "banal" IT work.”

I really don’t know exactly what you do, Fred, but I do know that you tend to breeze in, frequently in condescending and paternalistic fashion, to provide the self-considered ‘last word’ on a variety of topics, while never failing to remind readers that you have an important job, and are a globetrotting connoisseur of beer and gals. We get it, Fred. You’re important, active, and you know some people. Don’t assume that your audience is a bunch of ignorant hicks who have never been outside of San Diego—another easy error. Many of us contribute to the Reader for some silly social fun, and do the majority of our political and social commentary elsewhere.

I may agree most of the time with your politics, and your conclusions about American culture, but felt this was a salient point. It’s not the first time you’ve jeered at women in particular, and though I’m not a feminist per se, and feel uncomfortable with being cast in this role, it merits response.

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SDaniels Oct. 31, 2009 @ 5:56 a.m.

“The most attractive people around the world are NOT trapped in this ugly and wasteful mentality.”

Guess it would have been more accurate if you had stuck with this kind of generalization? Now you’ve got a thesis, let’s see the rest of your five paragraph explication on ugly and wasteful national mentalities. Don’t forget to pull out that chapter on Veblen in your econ textbook, and remember to use APA to cite.

In recall of a recent comment by you to a published writer on this site: By the way, you really should write. Maybe try to submit a cover to the Reader, rather than squabble with others in the blog dirt?

(Note: I’m assuming breezily here that you only contribute occasionally to a few Reader threads, have never been published, and may just not know where to turn).

Meanwhile, I look forward to more of your “panty-waste” commentary!

Muuuuuahhh! Kiss my gorgeous, haughty, entitled, zoftig azz, Freddy “Humungous” “Willimas.”

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antigeekess Oct. 31, 2009 @ 6:17 a.m.

Daniels, you're talking to Mr. Pearl Necklace, there, remember? FYI:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=panty+waste

(Gross out warning for Definition #1.)

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CuddleFish Oct. 31, 2009 @ 7:34 a.m.

Bauder's got kind words and the welcome mat out for Fred!

Hello nan, long time no see! xxxxxxx Please go and say hello to my friend skennerl, I have started a thread for her, Those Were The Days. :)

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nan shartel Oct. 31, 2009 @ 7:42 a.m.

i went i think...but maybe not...please do a seasoned woman a favor and leave a link for me cutie

i heard u were romancing a Seahorse..WATCH OUT...they mate for life u know...hahahahaha

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CuddleFish Oct. 31, 2009 @ 7:45 a.m.

Here you go, nan. You'll like sken, she's a smart chickadee!

No seahorses for me, alas, nobody loves me! :(

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/memorial-life/2009/oct/30/those-were-the-days/

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 31, 2009 @ 10:36 a.m.

Muuuuuahhh! Kiss my gorgeous, haughty, entitled, zoftig azz, Freddy “Humungous” “Willimas.”

By SDaniels

You two need to get a room and work out your tensions.

CuddleFish should referee.

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nan shartel Oct. 31, 2009 @ 7:01 a.m.

uh oh...backing slowly out of the thread...yikes

ah s*** maybe i'll stay...i love a fracas!!!

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or Oct. 31, 2009 @ 12:49 p.m.

("and yes, this thread has so completely deviated from its origin that following the twists and turns would require a heavy doses of hallucinogens followed up with severe sleep deprivation)"

Uh, isn't that normal for everyone here, or is it just me?!?!?!?!

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sounelegiac Nov. 24, 2011 @ 4:57 p.m.

I loved Richard Swink. He was my first love. Please write to me at sounelegiac at gmail dot com if you knew him. I need to know what his life was like when he died.

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