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Pastor John Ettore crouched down by my seat to welcome me, his hand heavy upon my shoulder, granite intensity in his face as he told me about Alan Vincent, an Englishman-turned-American and the guest preacher for the day. “In 1958, the Lord revealed Himself to him — he was a convinced evolutionist, an atheistic scientist working for the Kodak corporation. He became a missionary to India and has had incredible miracles happen through him — incurable diseases healed, that kind of stuff. You look in the Bible, and you see the Apostle Paul — real apostles, they are people who operate in the miraculous, but who have also suffered a lot. A lot of his disciples have been murdered or imprisoned or tortured, but hundreds of thousands of Hindus have come to Christ because of his ministry. He’s like an icon to them.”

Before Vincent spoke, there was music — anthemic and laden with repetition (“Have Your glory, Lord/ Have Your glory, Lord), sometimes resembling a military march, sometimes a love ballad (“Romancing, pursuing, reclaiming to restore...”). Hands were lifted, eyes were closed, and there was a sense of deep emotion burbling up in the murmured praises from the (generally youthful) congregation. (“Oh, God, You’re so good. You’re so awesome.”) A father wrapped his arm around his shaggy son’s shoulders.

“What is a gathering of God’s people without the presence of the Lord?” asked Ettore. “Nothing. One time, God said to Moses, ‘You go up and take that city, but I’m not going up there.’ And Moses said, ‘I don’t think so. I don’t care about the victory. If You’re not going, I’m not going. It’s me being with You and You being with me.’” He encouraged the congregation to enter into God’s presence, “to climb on His lap and call Him ‘Daddy.’ That’s the word Jesus used — ‘Abba.’ It was an intimate, wonderful love affair, and that’s what we want to have here at the Gathering Place Church.... God just wants to be loved.... Just lift your hands; He’s not mad at you.... Us loving God back; that is the love affair that some call Christianity. It’s not a religion; it’s a relationship.”

A pair of crutches leaned against the cross mounted high on the stage. “One of the ways God shows His love is through His healing power,” continued Ettore. He called a man forward to tell the story of Tina. “Tina has come up many times, asking prayer for her sciatica — it’s just constantly inflamed, and she’s been in so much pain. Last night, Alan was talking about putting yourself in a posture of receiving. She said, ‘I’m going to go up one more time and give God the chance to touch me.’ God miraculously healed her, and the pain left.” Huge applause and cheering. “And what I think is so great — she was out in the parking lot sharing it with someone else who was hurting with her sciatica, and Tina prayed for her, and God healed her.”

That image — receiving some divine action and then passing it on in love — served nicely to introduce Vincent’s sermon. He preached on making the Kingdom come, on the Christian call to possess Christ’s inheritance. The enemies of the Kingdom were the demons who had once held dominion, and it was amazing to hear this erudite man speak plainly of witnessing angels come against the Dalai Lama’s influence in Austria, of a woman possessed by Kali but unable to do him harm. Pants hoisted, shirtsleeves too short, the aged face on the leonine head barely changing expression as he roamed and expounded and exhorted, Vincent slipped smoothly from historical context to etymology to exegesis.

He closed with a meditation on the bread of heaven. First, he noted that the disciples had been made to participate in the miracle of the loaves, passing on the miraculous bread to the hungry multitudes. Then he asked whether those in attendance wanted to be “manna Christians” — surviving on the comparatively meager graces of met personal needs, hiding from the world in a “Kingdom bubble” — or warrior Christians, who eat Christ’s body and drink His blood so as to “have abundance to give away to each and every person we meet.”

Came the reply: “We are ready to be the sacrifice You need!”

“Come back tonight, and bring friends,” concluded Ettore. “What you just heard will open up, and there’s going to be an impartation. Jesus taught His disciples about the Kingdom, and then one day He laid hands on them and gave them power and authority over demons and all manner of sickness and disease...and He commissioned them. That’s going to be what happens tonight.”

What happens when we die?

“Oh, we go to heaven or we go to hell,” said Ettore.

The Gathering Place Church

9550 Carmel Mountain Road, Rancho Penasquitos




Denomination: nondenominational
Founded locally: 1998
Senior pastor: John Ettore
Congregation size: 200
Staff size: 7
Sunday school enrollment: 50
Annual budget: n/a
Weekly giving: about $10,000
Singles program: yes
Dress: mostly casual, some semiformal
Diversity: mostly Caucasian
Sunday worship: 10 a.m.
Length of reviewed service: 1 hour, 45 minutes
Website: gatheringplacechurch.org

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Comments

TFLarkin Feb. 14, 2009 @ 12:02 p.m.

The Gathering Place Church has been a place of restoration in my life. Its a place where you can come be yourself and experience God in a real, down to earth atmosphere. During the seven years that my family and I have been participating at GPC, we have grown in so many ways. I have seen people come who were somewhat disillusioned or offended by other church experiences, only to find as I have, deep healing, a new sense of hope for the future, and in ways that only God can work. This is a place where you can come bring your gifts to the table, be challenged, find purpose, and actually grow in faith and love like nowhere else.

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hodge123 Feb. 14, 2009 @ 1:47 p.m.

My Husband and I have been at the Gathering place for about 3 years and let me tell you,We have Witnessed more healings and miracles than we have ever seen in our lives, God is SO VERY APPARENT at our church. Our family has had direct experience with healings affecting us as well as our children. Our lives are so much more Blessed and complete with our Church Family at the Gathering Place.It is and has been a saving Grace for us from day 1.

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msmiljko Feb. 14, 2009 @ 5:25 p.m.

My family and I have been members of GPC for 10 years. We have found a place filled with real people, who have real faith in a real God. We are blessed to not only be members of a church but to have become members of a family. In ten years a lot can happen in the life of a young family. In every turn or twist we have taken, there has always been a church friend bringing a meal, giving a call, stoping by to chat, sharing good news, crying with us over the bad and praying with us all the way. Every Sunday we enjoy the music, worship, preaching and sunday school classes for the kids. I would say that the Sunday services are good and uplifting, a great place to connect with Jesus but that is not the best part about our church. The best part is the people who love you like Jesus all week long.

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MrsTeTe Feb. 16, 2009 @ 7:34 a.m.

My husband, two youngest daughters and I have only been attending Gathering Place Church for a little over a year. I have to say I knew from the first time we stepped through the door that this was to be our church home. All of the members were so welcoming and friendly. And the growth groups are awesome!!! They have been such a support through all of our trials and genuinely love us no matter what. The presence of God is so strong and the worship we partake in is just so spirit filled. Finding our Father through you has been the greatest blessing we could have asked for. Being a part of the Gathering Place Church family has changed and saved our lives. Thank you for being the wonderful family you are. God Bless.

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Fred Williams Feb. 16, 2009 @ 8:04 a.m.

What a truly disgusting example of the poison that religion brings into this world.

Here you have huckster "faith-healers", militant language usually reserved for the Taliban, and both biblical AND historical ignorance on display for all to see...yet people expose their CHILDREN to this junk.

That's child abuse.

Grow up, get off your imaginary sky-daddy's lap, and open up your eyes. None of this stuff is anything but the insane ramblings of people out to take your money with false promises. It's a cult more than a church, and those of you who attend and bring your children should be ashamed of yourselves.

You "Christian warriors" would be funny if you weren't so serious, and well-armed. This is a pointed example of why America is falling behind in science and math...tax-exempt churches teaching obvious nonsense to kids, destroying their ability to navigate in the real world.

I feel a little bit sorry for the poor deluded attendees at this sorry excuse of a mumbo-jumbo cult. But mostly I feel a deep concern that they're allowed to spread this dangerous and clearly lunatic thinking to kids.

We're all supposed to just say, "Oh well, that's what they believe, and it deserves respect."

No way.

This is a cult teaching violence and lies, and is just as dangerous in undermining the peace and progress of our society as Islamic extremism.

They don't deserve respect...they deserve a visit from child protective services.

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mathyou Feb. 16, 2009 @ 9:03 a.m.

wow- what a wonderful place to come and participate with other family members in worshiping our Heavenly Father. my wife and i have been here for three years and these years have been more foundational and rewarding both relationally and spiritually. we were drawn here 'cuz religiosity is not the dominant factor and the genuine transparency from the pulpit is totally evident. we are committed to seeking first the Kingdom of Heaven and then sharing that with our neighbors. we practice Kingdom fundamentals and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there are signs and wonders. your gifts and callings are welcome and encouraged, especially in our connect groups that meet in homes thru-out the week. so- if you're lookin' for a place where you realize that you need divine help navigating in the "real" world, then come and check out this place where we want less of "self" and more of Jesus.

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David Dodd Feb. 16, 2009 @ 5:33 p.m.

I find it so wonderful that supposedly intolerant Christians refrain from responding to comments that are so obviously preachy - coming from an atheist who demands that everyone believes that the World should only be seen through his eyes - I am sincerely proud of you people. Regardless that I do not attend church and irrespective of the fact that I readily admit that I have no faith in your particular brand of religion, I am truly touched by your classy and awesome composure. Lucky for me, I am not regulated by such a mandate for turning the other cheek.

Williams, you're a jerk. You really need to either seek professional help for your over-inflated ego, or else go the library and read some books on anthropology or perhaps simply study the human condition specifically concerning why humans seek spirituality. Read C. S. Lewis. Read Joseph Campbell. Read anything other that whatever you're reading, because your intolerant rambling is revealing a childhood that had a lot of problems growing up. Did your parents force you to attend church? What's your effing, intolerant problem?

(And I'm beginning to question why regular writers and contributors of this publication seem to kiss you butt, because I find many of your comments uninformed, uneducated, and unreadable.)

Dude, you really need to let go of that anti-religious hostility.

Regards,

gringo

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Josh Board Feb. 16, 2009 @ 11:01 p.m.

Fred, I always love and welcome your comments, but I'm siding here with refriedgringo.

Here's the thing. I feel the same way you do about religion. But ya know what? If going to church keeps some people in check, and that they think a "sky daddy" is going to "spank them and send them to hell" if they rob a bank or committ a crime, well, good. It'll keep those people in check.

If it keeps a man from cheating on his wife, well, that sounds like a good thing as well.

When people kill in the name of religion, well then you have a problem.

If they hold up pictures of aborted fetuses, for me and my 6-year-old nephew to see as we walk by, again, I have a problem with that.

But if going to a place of worship makes people feel better on a Sunday morning, why not let them?

I prefer sleeping in, and waking up in time for the second half of the 10 a.m. football games. I don't feel the need to knock the people that find solice by praying. Or to get as riled up as Bill Maher does in Religilous. It just makes no sense to do that.

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Fred Williams Feb. 17, 2009 @ 5:55 a.m.

This "church" is teaching children the same things as a radical Islamic madras. Hatred, faith in an angry vengeful deity, intolerance, miracle cures, and disdainful ignorance of science and rationality. They "speak in tongues", rolling on the floor, tossing away their crutches, condemning the sinners to hellfire and damnation.

There is a war going on in our culture. The right-wing nut jobs declared that war, and have done everything in their power to take over our political and civic institutions to prosecute their war.

These are the people who kill in the name of religion. They're the ones marching in front of doctors offices, yanking their kids out of science class, firmly convinced that the sooner they bring on Armageddon the better.

They've turned America into the laughing stock of the world.

Yet in addition to their tax exemptions, lavish lifestyles for their lying preachers, and unquestioning societal acceptance, you want them to be completely above criticism too.

Nope. No way.

How conveniently cowardly for you to declare that although you also find them vile, you're too respectful to dare to say anything about it.

Josh, you make the common mistake of equating religion with morality. There's no justification for that. Morality evolved long before religion hijacked it.

Gringo, you make the mistake of assuming I've not read the Screwtape Letters by Lewis, or that I'm not familiar with biblical teachings. In fact, I'd be happy to have a bible study with you and show you what is so vile about what these people have been taught to believe. They aren't preaching Christianity, or anything close to it. They're teaching hate and ignorance.

If you two think this "church" deserves deference and respect, then explain why. Just attacking me personally for standing up and showing this cult for what it is...well, you don't accomplish much that way.

Do you also support and defend radical Islamists who have an equal devotion to their nutty religion and teach it to children?

How about followers of Ram who murder their Muslim neighbors? Is that deserving of respect too? What about Mormons? Gotta respect them? Jim Jones? He was a Christian preacher too. Can't criticize him?

Where do you draw the line?

These folks are the ones preaching poison to children, and demanding that everyone view the world from their eyes, Gringo...not the other way around.

But you want me to shut up?

No thanks. I'll keep calling these people what they are...deluded child abusers who ought to be treated with loathing by everyone who learns of their evil beliefs and their antipathy to everything this country truly stands for.

Don't be cowed by your fear of reprisals. It's true that these kinds of Christians are violent bigots. But cowering away only makes them stronger. If you love this country, you have to oppose these idiots, call them out, show how ridiculous they are, and not be afraid.

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JF Feb. 17, 2009 @ 6:55 a.m.

Amen to that, Fred. Um, I mean right on.

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BC Feb. 21, 2009 @ 7:23 p.m.

Sounds like Fred has some personal problems he needs to deal with. Based on Freds statements it does not even appear that he has even gone to this church. What an ignorant buffoon! A perfect example of a hypocrite! You sure seem concerned about the "children" For the sake of our society I hope you don't have any. If you do, then maybe you should arrange for someone else to raise them and give them the life they deserve away from you.

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Russ Lewis Feb. 21, 2009 @ 10:26 p.m.

Fred, you certainly seem to know this church inside and out. (And calling someone "violent" is a pretty strong charge, if I may say so.) Yes or no: have you been there?

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bluenwhitegokart Feb. 22, 2009 @ 5:21 a.m.

Don't hold it in, Fred; tell us how you really feel.

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JohnnyVegas Feb. 22, 2009 @ 9:32 a.m.

Do you also support and defend radical Islamists who have an equal devotion to their nutty religion and teach it to children?

HELL no!

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Cristofers Feb. 23, 2009 @ 1:25 p.m.

Nothing that Fred said has any relevance with the Gathering Place.

He is an atheist that hates most, if not all, religions (see quote below from previous post) and just wanted to use this message board as an emotional outlet for his anger towards them. If you'd like to read any of his other posts feel free to do so by clicking his name. Here is an example of his general view toward God and religion:

"As I said before, religion is child abuse, polluting kids with false promises, counterproductive myths, and outrageous lies. The few sprinklings of wisdom were culled from other sources. It looks like your parents were especially cruel to you, my unfortunate friend, since they didn't love you enough to teach you about logic and science."

As you can see, he's not concerned about this church anymore than having a rational and polite conversation with someone who thinks differently than him. May we use this as an opportunity to pray that God will open Fred's eyes to the truth of God's overwhelming love and mercy.

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Fred Williams Feb. 25, 2009 @ 12:19 p.m.

Typical "Christian" stupidity.

All these posts, and not a single one of you can contradict a single assertion I've made.

Do they NOT teach "creationism" and contempt for science, thereby damaging the children?

Do they NOT pervert religion to stuff their own pockets?

Do they NOT preach hatred and fear, just like the Taliban?

Silence. Complete silence.

Instead, the cowards attack me for telling the simple and obvious truth. Then hypocrites like Cristofers engage in sacharine "let's pray for poor misguided Fred" rhetoric.

Do any of you have an IQ above room temperature...in Celsius?

Then tell us all why it's good to teach children stories about talking snakes and magical fruit, miracle cures, or the angry Sky God who condemns us all to immortal agony if we don't kiss his celestial butt.

Can't do it?

Maybe you don't believe a word of this church's nonsense either, but are just too cowardly to come out and say it.

I'm waiting.

Best,

Fred (who's forgotten more of the bible than any of you seem to have read)

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Russ Lewis Feb. 25, 2009 @ 3:22 p.m.

You have been there, right?

I'm waiting.

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hodge123 Feb. 26, 2009 @ 4:13 p.m.

Fred this website is for people who BELEIVE or WANT to beleive in the word of God, Why do you even bother to communicaite with us,?, Why do we bother you so much, the feeling i get is that you feel "THREATEND by us", well Fred no matter what angry words are said to you, and i beleive that those who respond to you with anger are truly no better, None of us are free of sin, but ALL of us can and are Forgiven......I want you to know i have forgiven you just as God has and continues to forgive me, I will pray for you every day, that is my commitment to you. Fed when you are ready to come over to the God side, there is a wonderful church with a loving congrigation that would love to welcome you in. Have a Blessed day Fred

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Duhbya Feb. 26, 2009 @ 4:35 p.m.

What flavor of Kool-aid is served? If it's Goofy Grape, or Chinese Cherry, we just might be enticed to show up. My girls and I just love Kool-aid.

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TFLarkin Feb. 26, 2009 @ 5:29 p.m.

Did you know that God loves you so much that He offered up His only son to die for you? Did you know, that Jesus actually raised Himself from the dead and conquered death? He is actually alive. And as a result, those who call upon His name, and come to God in His name, find eternal life, peace, joy, and power. Power over sin, and power over sickness. He listens to your prayers and answers. I have seen Him give a blind man sight,a brand new ear drum to my friend who was deaf since birth in his left ear. I have seen people be healed from cancer, asthma, all to the praise and glory of Jesus Christ who is alive and worthy of our praise. This isn't a religion at all....It is a relationship with God who loves us, and those who show hatred for this free gift of love and forgiveness, are indirectly crying out for it the most....and my friends, It is still available to you, until you breathe your last breath. I will praise His name (Jesus)forever, for I have seen His incredible power heal many, including me, and I have felt His undying love cover me and my family through every difficulty in life. "Whosoever would call upon His name shall be saved." (Rom 10:13) It is a free gift. You only have to believe. No one forces it on you. You can't earn it. Some enjoy being bound by anger and hate because of the deep pain they suffer inside. But deep down, underneath all that anger, they are crying out for help. Even if someone shows hatred toward this message of grace, I am just glad they took time to read it. God's spoken word never returns void. I hope those who read these blogs will dare to come to The Gathering Place Church just once....and then watch what God does from there..... You can even leave your money at home, when you come. ;) Just come as you are. I did. And boy am I glad I did. The peace is just unending. The love is so real. The power of God is so evident....Wow.(sigh) It is always so encouraging to remember all God has done.....That is why we want you to experience it too. I pray you do. :)

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Fred Williams Feb. 27, 2009 @ 9:13 a.m.

Hodge, this is NOT your website, NOR is its purpose to spread the word of your angry sky god. What an ignoramus.

Larkin, it's amusing that you think your angry sky god raped a Palestinian school girl to make an undead zombie so that HE won't torture you for all eternity.

What other stupid things do you believe?

Helpfully you provided a list:

The angry sky god cures blindness, deafness, cancer, asthma...helps your high school football team win a game...punishes you eternally when you masturbate.

Uh, yeah. Um, hmmmmm.

See, you're so stupidly arrogant that you think I haven't read your bible. Wrong, buddy. I used to give sermons and can easily hold my own with any theologian you name.

The opposite, however, is obviously not true. You've never read any science or history, have you? Otherwise you'd have at least a basic understanding of physics and the difference between correlation and cause and effect. You'd know, from reading the recent research, that we've already identified the specific area of the brain that, when stimulated, gives you your "spiritual" hallucinations.

Do you know how and when your bible was written?

Do you know how much of Stoicism and Mithraism was ripped off and inserted into your small minded little book of myth and faerie tales?

Probably not.

Instead, you want to teach your children that your angry sky god created them EVIL and FLAWED, condemned to hell for the mistake of being born human, ashamed of genitalia, terrified of questions, eager to kill the infidels and destroy any who dare disagree with your hallucinations.

Are you aware that we've sequenced the Neanderthal genome? Are you familiar with the recent findings showing the evolution of feathering in early reptiles? Do you know anything about radio carbon dating?

What a small, petty, superstitious world you inhabit. Open your eyes and behold the magnificence of the universe around us. Wrap your mind around the implications of the light-speed constant, or learn something about genetics, plate tectonics, or something useful instead of "studying" your violent bible, looking for apocryphal clues to your angry sky god's capricious and unjust conception of natural laws.

You can go on believing that tsunamis and hurricanes are your deity's punishment for sinful humanity...but the rest of us will learn about earthquakes, wave dynamics, convection currents, and other practical science that could save real human lives.

Your ilk has been running this country, and it's become the laughing stock of the world. Time to stop, open your eyes, and accept the reality all around us. Your petty little god is no more real than Thor, Beelzebub, or Ra, and just as relevant to our lives.

In the meantime, every time you tell your kids about Noah's ark or Jonah and the whale, know that you're handicapping them...deliberately cultivating ignorance.

That's child abuse. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

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SG Feb. 28, 2009 @ 3:38 p.m.

The Gathering Place is more than a church, its a family. Some of my best friends are there. It's a place to belong and a place to be a part of a purpose that will go far beyond our lifetimes. I've never met the "angry skygod"... but I have met Jesus and He is infinitely amazing. I love Him more every day.

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Russ Lewis March 1, 2009 @ 4:15 a.m.

Fred, do you want a third chance to dodge the question? Have you been to this church? Just asking.

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Russ Lewis March 1, 2009 @ 4:20 a.m.

"Every time you tell your kids about Noah's ark or Jonah and the whale, know that you're handicapping them...deliberately cultivating ignorance.

"That's child abuse."


Likewise watching TV, listening to pop music, or playing video games. Shall we throw the book at parents who do that, or is "child abuse" a somewhat exaggerated charge?

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Fred Williams March 1, 2009 @ 3:41 p.m.

Russ, I've not answered your demand that I attend this church because it's irrelevant to anything. I don't have to live or work at Auschwitz to know it was a source of evil in this world...same goes for this ugliest type of "church" spewing hatred and falsehood into the community.

Besides, if I WERE to go to this church, wouldn't you simply turn around and label me as a "disgruntled former member"? I'll stay out of that sort of trap, thank you. I spent enough time in churches of this ilk to know what goes on there and in the corrosive Sunday "School" indoctrination of young children.

I read the article and commented on it. Didn't you read how this bunch of fools believe in faith healing and all the worst superstitions of Christianity -- yet delude themselves into thinking they're just good family folk?

On your second point, claiming that TV and pop music are equivalently evil to religion, I'd like to point out that kids aren't taught that video games are "real"...but parents and church leaders DO teach kids that they literally come from a rib-woman who ate an apple she got from a talking snake, so THEREFORE all children are created inherently evil by the angry jealous sky god described in great detail in the bible.

This is the church's official doctrine, and it's vile. It's a real and present danger to our society, originating from the worst ignorance and arrogance that religion provides. How can anyone look at the last eight years and deny that the influence of religion is evil in America.

I'm sure you privately agree with me, and are entering into the debate out of a sense of fairness, to even the playing field for those who are clearly unable to say much in defense of their ongoing abuse of children. But really, there's no justification for what churches like this do to the world.

It's the duty of all of us who believe in freedom and the advancement of the human race to oppose these idiots and expose them for the corrupt frauds they are. Joining in their services would do nothing to advance the truth.

So, Russl, I'm sure you are simply trying to clarify things and will now join me in denouncing this cancer on our society, recognizing that exposing kids to the weird cult of this brand of "Christianity" is about the worst thing parents could do to impressionable youngsters.

Best,

Fred

(P.s. SG, if this is your family, I feel very sorry for you. Some day you'll probably end up in a jungle drinking poisoned kool aid, wondering where you went wrong...the answer is that you joined this cult instead of listening to the tiny voice in your head that said "run away from these nut cases!" I wish you luck, but fear for the worst.)

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SG March 1, 2009 @ 4:33 p.m.

....honored to be considered a fool or a nut case for Him.

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Fred Williams March 1, 2009 @ 4:54 p.m.

It's the mark of fools that when confronted with undeniable fact, they continue acting in the same manner, SG.

This is the stupidity that "passes understanding". It makes everyone else in the world laugh at America, the land of the gullible.

SG, do you believe in "creationism"?

Do you follow the laws of Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

Or isn't it true that your "faith" is so pathetic and malleable that you just pick and choose which bits of the book to follow?

Otherwise, please tell us all about the last time you murdered someone for adultery, or how you ritually purify yourself with the slaughter of farm animals...

I have to also assume, with your "faith" that you never go to a hospital, but rather treat all your ailments with prayer and fasting.

No?

Oh, I guess you don't really believe at all...do you?

Time to put away childish things, and recognize that your "faith" and trust has been abused...just like children forced to sit through "lessons" that teach outright falsehoods every Sunday morning in your church.

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hodge123 March 3, 2009 @ 7:47 p.m.

Fred you are loved and this IS my website as it belongs to all who love God, and since you frequent it so often i think mabey you do love God....HeY WHATEVER KEEPS YOU COMMING BACK>>>>>

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Russ Lewis March 3, 2009 @ 9:59 p.m.

Re #26 -- Dude, all I asked was whether you'd ever been there. I seem to recall hearing of temperance crusaders who would rail against the sin taking place in speak-easies and, when pinned down, would respond, "I don't have to go in there to know what sort of thing goes on in there." I wasn't trying to get you to go.

We have different ideas of what violence and child abuse consist of. Okay. Seems like strong charges to me, but that's just me, I guess.

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LifeIsAGift April 19, 2009 @ 3:53 p.m.

Dear Mr. Fred,

I haven't been on the Reader in a while but thought for a moment I'd take a look and see what was up. Yep I know this article came out in February and it's now middle of April but what I find interesting is that this article is the "only one" you really attack. Nothing before and I believe the article right after this one and then one other you make just one comment with no responses. Why is that?

I quoted you on this line "lavish lifestyles for their lying preachers" because after reading the article and everyone's response I figured I'd Google the address listed to see this "Magnificent and Lavish" Church that you were talking about. You know when I Googled this address, do you know what came up for this address? MT. Carmel High School in Rancho Penasquitos! That's right a high school. No lavish, outlandish, magnificent, out of this world, adorned with gold and jewels temple of God, nope just a high school in the Poway Unified School District. WOW and I almost believed you when you said that this church and its "preachers" have lavish lifestyles.

Then I decided I'd go to the whitepages and see if the pastor of this church was listed there. Yep he was and so was his wife, as well as the PO Box that the church uses to receive its mail since I doubt the high school would accept any of the churches mail. I recognized the road name and I giggled because for a pastor of a church to live on a street with this name I just found it to be quite humorous. Since I know this area of town I just want you to know that there are NO lavish mansion's that you apparently "assume" he is living in. Actually the places in this area are just very simple homes, average 3-4 bedrooms, nothing to write home about.

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LifeIsAGift April 19, 2009 @ 3:54 p.m.

(Continued...)

After reading all that you wrote, to me it seems that you have been to this church, you know the pastor(s) of this church, you at one time worshipped at this church and then something happened to make you turn your back and begin to call it as you said "a cult." There are way too many intimate details that you've been writing that would definitely lead a person to believe you've been there and something went terribly wrong.

You keep stating that what is being taught is "Child Abuse." My question to you Mr. Fred is this "Have you called CPS yet and filed Child Abuse Report(s)?" Actually I would highly recommend it since you are so set that they are abusing their children and make sure that CPS is there next Sunday to follow-up on your allegations. I would definitely attend this church next Sunday to see CPS there and interview all of the children young and old alike regarding your allegations of child abuse.

As a concerned citizen, it is your civic duty to report any and all child abuse that you have witnessed! Please call immediately as you don't want these children to be continually abused!!!! And when you have made that call, could you let everyone know as I am sure you as well as everyone else who comes to visit these boards would like to be there when CPS arrives to remove all of these abused children.

Thank you so much for enlightening me, now I have a stronger idea of how my higher power works in your life. I take it one day at a time, chose to call my higher power by His rightful name and know that by the way I chose to live my life will always be a gift.

As I always say to all of my friends and foes...

Blessings... =)

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SpliffAdamz_ May 22, 2009 @ 11:33 a.m.

For all you atheist out there if you don't believe in god as the creator , then what do you believe in or you do you believe created the world??? Now if you believe in the theory of evolution then please tell everyone what tribe of monkeys do you and your family come from!!!! Ya know , what monkey is at the top of your family tree!!!! And also explain what monkey or monkeys do europeans , africans and asian come from. Please enlighten everyone on how we get the different shades of people from different kinds of monkeys!!!

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SpliffAdamz_ May 23, 2009 @ 3:58 p.m.

What's the matter with you wanna be atheist??? Are you still searching for that picture of your great great great grandma baboon?? Or are y'all still searching for some so-called intellectual who has the theory on which monkeys are closely related to europeans , africans and asian!!!! With so many facts on the theory of evolution , i thought at least one of you so called intelligent atheist or monkey worshiper would have the answer to a simple question such as that!! Or maybe your dumb azz never really sat down to analyze the whole monkey to man thing yet!!!! Come on people step it up don't leave us angry sky daddy worshiper in suspense!!!! I know there are a ton of books on your bullshyt azz theory , so i know you can find something soon right??? Because if you can't answer the simple question , well lets not even go there yet!!!!!!!

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SpliffAdamz_ May 26, 2009 @ 9:25 a.m.

Fred is that all you got?!!! 3 whole days of research and that's the best you could come up with!!! Keep researching you might find something , because you said the evolution theory was back up by facts!!! So where are the facts??? You ain't got any more bible scripture that you need to be corrected on?!!! I guess even your dumb azz can't answer a simple question huh? I figure all you coward azz atheist would have no response to a simple question. So what dose that say about you and what you believe in??? If you believe in stupidity then that makes you a stupid person right!!!!! If you believe in nonsense then you have no sense!!!! If your falsely educated that means your uneducated!!!! If you believe in a theory then you don't have the facts!!!! It's that easy people!!!

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SpliffAdamz_ May 26, 2009 @ 9:37 a.m.

Come on monkey worshippers where yall at??? Not one of yall got the info on this monkey to man thing down yet??? I know yall use to watch planet of the apes to get your knowledge , but that was a T.V. show not reality. So i'm still calling you scrubs out!! Any so called ateist or believer in the theory of evoultion enlighting us. Find someone dumber (i mean smarter) that can help you out. Because it's all to clear , that none of you people on this web site has the answer to the question!!! And in case you forgot read post 33 to refresh ya memory. That if you monkeys worshippers can read and understand a simple question!!!

I'm on chase ave in el cajon if you want ta speak on it!!!!!

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magicsfive May 28, 2009 @ 10 a.m.

spliff... you are a character....hard to stay mad at you. thanks duhbya...notice how spliff has 13 friends and his mood, well, you know....i'd send him a friend request but 1. he probably wouldn't accept it and 2. i would hate to ruin his "13" friends by makin it 14 ;)

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SpliffAdamz_ May 28, 2009 @ 11:48 a.m.

Man i haven't been on my-space in a long time thanks for showing my video duhbya. Yeah i'm sipping on something potent and smoking on my herb!!! Magicsfive send it all accept it i just need to go to my page. I just don't know when i'm going to do it!!! Holla!!!!

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SpliffAdamz_ May 28, 2009 @ 11:53 a.m.

Yo fred shouldn't it be (IN THE BEGINNING MONKEY CREATED GOD)??? Wouldn't monkeys have that concept of god before man since you believe man came from monkeys???? Hope you doing ya research homie!!!!!

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magicsfive May 28, 2009 @ 12:22 p.m.

spliff you haven't been on myspace since 2007. i doubt you remember your password ;) i sent you a request nevertheless. :)

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