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The website for the California Marriage Protection Act (protectmarriagesd) features a “Protect Marriage” timeline, one which incorporates both spiritual and political efforts. (The act seeks to amend the California State Constitution so that marriage will be limited to the union of one man and one woman.) On the spiritual side: “Sunday, July 27: Preach on prayer. Monday, July 28: Begin 100 days of prayer. Sunday, September 21: Preach on fasting. Wednesday, September 24: Begin 40-day fast. Month of October: Preach on marriage.” On the political side: ballot, registration, and voting deadlines, along with scheduled phone-bank and door-to-door efforts, plus a youth rally and “The Call,” an all-day gathering at Qualcomm Stadium on November 1.

Also on the timeline: monthly “Pastors Conference Calls,” which are opportunities for pastors around the state to network and discuss their efforts to ensure the act’s passage. The first call linked 1600 pastors in 101 locations; the goal for the Oct. 22 call is 6000 pastors in 400 locations. I visited one of those locations — New Hope Church in Rancho Peñasquitos — for the second call, held Wednesday, July 30. (By then, the number of locations in California had risen to 175.) “Politically Incorrect and Proud of It” read the bumper sticker of the car next to mine; the license plate read, “RGN N ME.”

“This conversation began 15 years ago,” said one attendee to another in the church’s conference room as we waited for the call to begin. “Which companies are ‘pro-gay.’ People started talking about boycotting. Then you dig down deep enough, you realize that you’d have to boycott everybody.” Our host led an opening prayer: “Father...show us what is in Your heart, what Your concerns are, what Your passion is.... We ask for You to speak through the speaker, and we pray that You would protect them.”

The call began, accompanied by a video presentation. Jim Garlow, pastor of Skyline Church in Rancho San Diego, served as emcee and opened by asking me to leave: “We want to say this tenderly but firmly: we’ve asked the media not to be present. This is a private meeting. We’ve also received numbers of emails telling us that there are people from the opposition in our midst. We are here for one particular reason, and it’s very, very simple: to honor Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. If you have come for that reason, you are welcome to be where we are today.”

At that point, I left and went home to visit the Protect Marriage Website, which contained an outline of the call’s schedule. First up: “How to equip yourself,” including a word on legal questions and an overview of Garlow’s “10 Declarations,” made “to unite, focus, and ground us during this precarious season.”

The declarations began with the claim that “authentic inclusivity means loving all persons, without the need to compromise biblical integrity.” They defended marriage as “a covenantal union of one male and one female, which provides the foundation for a healthy, whole family life” and stressed that while “race is a fact of birth,” “a homosexual act is that — an act. Acts involve choices.... It is inappropriate to compare homosexual marriages to interracial marriages.” They declared repentance for the failure of Christians to “teach and model authentic Christianity” and to “adequately sanctify marriages.... The divorce rate is an abomination to God, a curse on the world and nation, and is an anathema to us.” They promised perseverance and noted that “while the church is the force for righteousness in the culture, its ultimate purpose is to glorify God by bringing persons into a relationship with the Father.”

Later topics included: “How to energize your church,” “How to mobilize your city,” “How to activate your spiritual community,” and “How to educate your state.” Also, “How to please your Father” — the spiritual element was anything but background music. The website linked to a sermon given in February by Miles McPherson, pastor of San Diego’s The Rock Church. In it, McPherson said that fighting homosexual marriage was “not a civil government issue, but a spiritual issue. The attack is not from the gay lobby. Here’s who the enemy is: it’s the devil. He’s trying to normalize homosexuality. He’s trying to criminalize preaching the Word of God. In Canada, if you preach Romans 1 — that talks about homosexuality being an abomination — you will lose your license. You will go to jail.”

McPherson warned that if you “take the Bible out of society, you have complete anarchy. If you take God and the Bible out, then murder is no longer right or wrong because God is the one who said that murder is wrong.” He also argued that when man and woman join in marriage, “that’s the fullness of [God’s] image. You’re back the way [God] originally had you,” after He had “made man in His image” but before He made Eve from Adam’s rib. “Here is Satan’s intent: ‘How do I destroy the ultimate image of God? I’ll destroy marriage.’”

Garlow also preached a sermon on the website, this one introducing a brochure designed to engage the unchurched as well as the believer. The brochure explored marriage in world and American history and argued that anthropology has found heterosexual marriage to be almost universally “a pivotal institution,” while homosexual marriage is “never the basis of a ‘viable social order.’” Further, “the historical origin of marriage is in society and culture, as a response to the needs of the family, and has only later been extended legal recognition and regulation.”

And the brochure argued for the social benefits of heterosexual marriage, concluding, “as the family goes, so goes society.... Whether American society succeeds or fails in building a healthy marriage culture is clearly a matter of legitimate public concern.... The problem with endorsing gay marriage is not that it would allow a handful of people to choose alternative family forms, but that it would require society at large to gut marriage of its central presumptions about family in order to accommodate a few adults’ desires.”

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jstern24 Aug. 9, 2008 @ 11:38 p.m.

Ignorance or stupidity: I can't tell the difference. Are these people just plain ignorant because they just don't know any better, or are they stupid enough to believe that gay marriage is tantamount to murder. This article makes it sound like before the bible it was okay to murder but because "God" said that murder is a bad thing, people suddenly realize they should go around killing. Therefore if two people express their love for each other by being married, being of the same sex, they might as well go out and murder someone as well. Ignorance or stupidity?

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JohnBisceglia Aug. 9, 2008 @ 11:48 p.m.

Marriage Equality is about SO MUCH MORE than changing and adapting U.S. laws so LGBT families are treated AS HUMAN AS those enjoying the Exalted Heterosexual Marriage. It is only one color in the spectrum of LGBT discrimination: career (civilian or military), housing, going to a Mariners game, high schools, retirement, walking down the street without being killed or beaten just for existing, estate planning, trying to love and protect the person we plan to spend the rest of our lives with...

You know, FUNDAMENTAL needs.

Yet the LGBT community is expected to fall in line, as submissives must do, and pay taxes into a social fabric they have been scissored from...not unlike the laundry list of minorites from previous generations who suffered due to heterosexual (identified) white men's craving for power and control. Well many have stopped submitting AND paying; National Gay Tax Protest.

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Fred Williams Aug. 10, 2008 @ 8:09 a.m.

If the Bible didn't tell me not to, I'd be out slaughtering my neighbors. The angry omniscient space-being Jehovah shows me the way through magical 100% truthful writings from ancient goat herding nomads and 4th-century 3rd-hand story-tellers, so I know what's right and wrong.

Paul urges good Christians NOT to marry unless they are unable to control their evil sexual urges. (1 Corinthians 7:1—9)

It's clear that Paul supports gay marriage as a way to keep men holy and pure in the sight of God.

In fact, the Bible says that in the end times, evil people will try to prohibit marriage. (1 Timothy 4:1-3)

According to the Bible, those who oppose gay marriage are occupied by "deceiving spirits and demonic teachings, influenced by the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared."

Clearly, God celebrates homosexual love. Consider the story of David and his boyfriend Jonathan. 1 and 2 Samuel reads like gay porn, "...and they kissed one another and wept with one another, until David exceeded."

Whew! King David all hot and bothered.

The Bible is SUCH a good book and a comfort to us all.

As our fundamentalist friends say, “take the Bible out of society, you have complete anarchy. If you take God and the Bible out, then murder is no longer right or wrong because God is the one who said that murder is wrong.”

Praise God..!!

It's an indisputable fact that without Bibles, there is complete anarchy. Take Sweden, where just about everyone is an atheist and they are fine with gays marrying. You visit that evil godless country, you'd just better be armed to the teeth.

Sweden is just like "Mad Max", only more violent. Everyone knows the murder rate in Scandinavia is well over 100%. Same in Holland and Thailand too, evil places where they just don't have enough Bible in their society.

Now anywhere you have lots of religion and strong Bible believers, where they joyfully kill faggots on sight...all those places are like paradise on earth. Rwanda and Haiti, where faithful priests sometimes lead the God ordained killing, are great examples of Godly countries. And of course we can't forget how wonderful everything is in God fearing Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.

The Bible tells me what to do, so I'm gonna go right out and kill me some Edomite babies, as Psalms 137 commands:

"Fortunate is the man who will seize and dash your little ones against the rock!"

Hallelujah!

Don't forget that Leviticus 11:9-12 says "Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you," and Deuteronomy 14:9-10 agrees, God hates shrimp.

Anyone who partakes in ABOMINATION sins against God and nature and MUST BE STOPPED. So I'm collecting signatures to outlaw Red Lobster in California.

Blessings be upon you.

So remember, in November, Vote YES on Proposition H8...it's what God wants, because if you don't there will be a big earthquake in California's future..

Amen.

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Barbarella Fokos Aug. 10, 2008 @ 12:29 p.m.

If my neighbors, gay or straight, caught wind of the incredibly unholy acts in which I partake in the bedroom, I would certainly have all of my civil rights stripped away by the religious, "It's Our Business to Know Where You Plan to Stick That" faction.

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LAMaddog Aug. 11, 2008 @ 9:11 a.m.

You guys are so blinded by your own desires for oral sex. This is what it all boils down to. A good marriage between a man & a woman will satisfy all those needs. There is no restriction to sex within marriage except multiple partners, sex with someone other than your spouse or with animals. There is not anything scripturally that prohibits what you do in bed using these guidelines. The key to this is "Marriage". It is scripturally defined as "between a man and a woman". It is also written that "Man shall not lay with man because it is an abomination to God." Do you really think that a man shooting sperm through another man's body or a woman unable to provide sperm to another woman is how reproduction of life was intended? As I said, your concerns are about your oral sex life which can and should be taken care of in a normal man & woman marital relationship. So continuing to find scripture that fits your desire for oral sex is blind to the truth and selfishly misguided. So let's say it again to be clear from the scripture from God Himself. "Man shall not lay with man because it is an abomination to God."

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Gregor Aug. 11, 2008 @ 9:52 a.m.

You know, I have problems with Brown deliberately misrepresenting the requested change with his altering the wording of the matter from what the people said they wanted it to be. How is this legal? How is it he hasn't been charged with criminal tampering or removed from office or something?

Even the statement, "The act seeks to amend the California State Constitution so that marriage will be limited to the union of one man and one woman." seems a little odd to me since a more accurate statement would be that the act seeks to keep marriage what it has always been without mention of sex.

The argument I never hear is this: Gays say all they want is equality. The fact is they always have had, and still have, exactly the same right as everyone else. This push to create a new form of marriage is what's really going on. The State only recognized marriage because of the obvious benefits that a procreating family brings to society. NO matter how you slice it, two women or two men can't create a baby without third party help. This despite claims of the first "pregnant man", actually a gender confused woman, but not confused enough to make the full change by having her FEMALE organs removed, obviously.

I have gay friends - oddly enough none of them feels the need to fight for the right to "marry" since they freely admit they have the same right I do - to marry anyone of the opposite sex that they choose. They just choose not to. Is that so hard to understand?

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Mexjewel Aug. 11, 2008 @ 9:55 a.m.

Marriage is a CIVIL contract/agreement between two people. It has NOTHING to do with God or religion. Atheists marry. Agnostics marry. Catholics marry. The CA Supreme Court took 120 pages to say that the right to marry cannot be denied to anyone. Massachusets has no problem wth the concept. After five years of Gay marriage, they are in favor 3:1. Could it be the Christian Wrong have a Romans 2:1 thing about homosexuality?

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Gregor Aug. 11, 2008 @ 10:02 a.m.

Comments like those by JohnBisceglia 11:48 p.m., Aug 9, 2008 leave me scratching my head. Let me run it down for you, John:

You already have marriage equality - you are free to marry anyone of the opposite sex that you choose, just as I or anyone can do.

You can still leave your estate to anyone you choose - just make sure your will is up to date.

I served in the military with many obvious gays and also know obvious gays that are doing quite well in the civilian sector so your argument about career discrimination is a nonstarter. From what I've seen the gays that have trouble are the troublemakers, just like the straights that have trouble.

Your argument about being beaten or killed for walking down the street - funny I didn't see any of that at any of the major LGBT events recently - just the opposite in fact! Are you deluded or do you live in Iran?

And you try to compare yourself to "minorities" - people who didn't make a CHOICE that created their current situation.

Or is it your claim you were "born gay"?

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Gregor Aug. 11, 2008 @ 10:17 a.m.

Mexjewel 9:55 a.m., Aug 11, 2008 almost gets it, but not quite. QUOTE: "Marriage is a CIVIL contract/agreement between two people."

TRUE, and this contract was created to acknowledge and strengthen the bond between a man and a woman because society recognized the benefit to society inherent in a union between a man and a woman. The primary benefit was the production of new citizens who would wind up carrying society forward into the future.

QUOTE: "It has NOTHING to do with God or religion."

FALSE. You miss the fact that some sort of "man of God" officiated at marriages before they became a civil event and even now more often than not marriages still features some sort of "man of God" (or woman of God) officiating. Why is that if marriage has nothing to do with God or religion?

QUOTE: "The CA Supreme Court took 120 pages to say that the right to marry cannot be denied to anyone."

Of course, they only took up the question to thwart the expressed will of the people, which was that marriage should be between one man and one woman. SO you're saying that the opinion of a few leftists should trump the expressed will of the people? What lunatic dictatorship do you live in? Oh yeah, the Soviet Socialist Repblic of Kalifornia!

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Barbarella Fokos Aug. 11, 2008 @ 10:31 a.m.

I'm an atheist. Got married in a "civil" ceremony at the "COUNTY," not in a church, by a woman of the "STATE," not of "God." I happened to have married a man, but will not be procreating. This was "allowed" because of that crucial foundation of SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE that our forefathers, some of them Christian, some not, tried so hard to establish. What I want to know, is how does a man marrying a man harm or threaten anyone else's marriage? Does MY marriage, as a child-free-by-choice atheist also harm and threaten the marriages of the procreating, God-fearing masses?

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theboss Aug. 11, 2008 @ 12:01 p.m.

Let me remind you all, this nation was founded on Christianity. Let us not forget our forfathers and what they lived and fought for. Under One Nation of God. America would not be America without this Godly foundation. We are still America, dispite how we've smothered God out of just about everything. God does have a say in this issue, whether we include Him or not, whether we agree or not. We will pay for our choices, Biblically based or not. We will reap what we sow. If we had any fear of God, we would know this. To add some insight to this picture, we were created in God's own image, male and female. Then God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply" (that was a command, by the way) Gen.1:27,28. We cannot multiply without a man and a woman. There is no argument here. Then read on in the "Book of Solomom". It's an intimate love story between a man and a woman. He speaks of his love for her and it gets pretty heavy. Read it. Then read on in the New Testament, which some of us have our own opinion and interpretation of, it gives the blueprint of marriage, based on the foundation, in Genesis. As I see it, it's all written out for us, all we have to do is, obey. Thanks for reading this.

ps God does not 'hate' shrimp. They were spoken as forbidden food. They were created to surf the bottom of the oceans to eat all the garbage, as scavengers, to keep the ocean clean, as were crabs and lobsters, just to educate some of you.

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Barbarella Fokos Aug. 11, 2008 @ 12:28 p.m.

With all due respect, boss, No, it was not. Our Constitution says nothing of God, and the very first Amendment, written by those same founding fathers, clearly states: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

That bit about "one nation under God" was not added to the Pledge of Allegiance until 1954, as a statement against Communism. "In God We Trust" was not added to paper money until 1957 (though it appeared on all coins in 1938, still long after the country was established).

Our founding fathers comprised Christians, Freemasons, Deists, and based on letters, it is thought, even a few atheists. These men knew enough, having escaped religious persecution, the importance of keeping church and state separate.

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sandiego80 Aug. 11, 2008 @ 12:44 p.m.

It is about time someone is kind and loving on these posts. thanks..(theBoss)..

God created marriage between a male and a female, not any other way. Us Christians can only pray for those out there that are lost and obviously missing something; God in their life. I guarantee you that if they had the God in their heart, they would not be so angry at life, themselves, others, and at Christians. It truly touches my heart when I see all the hurtful e-mails and derogatory comments aimed at Christians and our Pastor’s in San Diego and what they are trying to fulfill. One thing I pray for is once this vote in November is complete and the ruling gets overturned, all you people out there that are Non-Christians, will be Astonished and turn to God because you will all be amazed of the Power of God and what he can do and what he did do to change the ruling. Remember God loves each and every single one of you! Have a Blessed Day!! :)

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Gregor Aug. 11, 2008 @ 5:28 p.m.

Someone hasn't read the Declaration of Independence lately... notice how it was deliberately left out of the post by Barbarella 12:28 p.m., Aug 11, 2008? Here is a short sample:

... to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's GOD entitle them... that they are endowed by their CREATOR...

Now I have no issue with some people choosing NOT to believe in imaginary friends, including our sweet, sweet Barbarella. But, having quoted the First Amendment accurately (as far as I can tell by a brief review) how can she explain how atheists use it to try and suppress the free and open expression of religion?

I'd still like someone, ANYONE, to address the main lie that's been told with regards to gay marriage - that being that NOT allowing them to marry people of the same sex is discriminatory. I can't marry someone of the same sex either. Nobody can. They, like everyone, have exactly the same right to marry someone of the opposite sex.

This is seen as an attack on traditional families and traditional values and I see plainly it is exactly that. Keep God out of it at your peril if you like, I don't care. (I say that because you can analyze the severity of the two error cases - if there IS a God and you deny it, versus if there isn't a God and you say there is. Which error has the worst potential consequences?)

While we're here, how come vegans are against killing animals but generally seem supportive of killing human fetuses? That's another question I'd like someone to explain to me.

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Gregor Aug. 11, 2008 @ 5:34 p.m.

Barbarella asks: Does MY marriage, as a child-free-by-choice atheist also harm and threaten the marriages of the procreating, God-fearing masses?

No, it does not. Assuming you chose to marry a man (you represent yourself as a female - or are you a trannie and just confused?) and you are a woman then to prevent you from marrying a man would in fact be discriminatory since all people have the equal right to marry the opposite sex.

Plus, you never know - you might change your mind... it's been known to happen! Just like people who are sure they're gay and then realize they aren't - or vice versa. Sexual orientation may be influenced by many factors but, like smoking, drug use, alcoholism and criminality, in the end it is a choice.

Here's a thought experiment about whether being gay is "natural" or not - suppose that tomorrow and for the next 120 years or so everyone woke up every morning convinced they were gay. How long would the human race last?

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Gregor Aug. 11, 2008 @ 5:35 p.m.

My vote for most hateful post yet: Fred_Williams 8:09 a.m., Aug 10, 2008

Most ridiculous, too...

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Fred Williams Aug. 13, 2008 @ 9:34 a.m.

Gregor, I only repeat what the Bible teaches. I'm sorry you think the Bible is hateful. Perhaps you should pray more.

I repent. From now on, let's follow ALL the teachings of the Bible. Otherwise, this homicidal hate-filled thunder being from space might kill us too.

  • If you taunt bald-headed people, God will KILL you. (2 Kings 2:23-24)
  • If you enter the holy place without the required bells, God will KILL you. (Exodus 28:34-35)
  • If you eat shrimp, God will KILL you. (see above)
  • If you masturbate, God will KILL you. (Genesis 38:9)
  • God doesn't mind if you want to KILL your slaves, as long as you do it slowly. (Exodus 21:20-21)
  • If you pick up sticks on Sunday, God will KILL you. (Numbers 15:32-36)
  • If you are a virgin girl, God will KILL you. (Numbers 31:31-40)
  • If you are NOT a virgin girl, God will KILL you. (too many instances to count)
  • Before KILLING the virgin girls, God commands you to RAPE them first. (Deuteronomy 21:10-13)

....praise God! His love is boundless.

It's clear to good folks like Gregor that ALL morality comes ONLY from the Bible.

We must follow ALL the teachings of the Bible, because we know from the example of the talking-snake who got rib-woman to eat an apple behind omniscient God's back is a homocidal tyrant who is easily offended.

If you don't praise him constantly ("Thanks for creating me with original sin, God. You're the best!) you're gonna get it in the neck.

So Gregor, I'm sure you're a good Christian and have, in accordance with Matthew 10:35-36 rejected and abandoned your family, wife, and children as he commands.

If not, are you one of those whimpy Christians who wants to pick and choose which bits of the Bible to follow? If so, please let us all know which bits you find objectionable, and how you dare to contradict God's own holy word.

In closing, let's all bow our heads in prayer to urge God not only to help our team in the next football game (I've got a lot of money riding on the Chargers, Lord, so you better come through) but to give Gregor enough wisdom and virtue so he can finally live a God-fearing life by committing holy murder as prescribed in the Bible. (By the way, Gregor, Barbarella is suspiciously witch-like...suffering her to live is yet another of your many sinful failings.)

Otherwise, Gregor might have to admit that the Bible is an absurd collection of myths and ridiculous historical falsehoods...fairy-tales no intelligent fifth-grader could believe...and join the side of those of us who are against ignorance and hatred, and support the right of people to love each other free from attacks by ignorant religious bigots.

Amen

Rev. Fred Williams

(P.s. Marriage predates both the Bible and Christianity. The church didn't even get involved until after the Council of Trent in 1545...look it up you Bible-thumping fools.)

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Barbarella Fokos Aug. 12, 2008 @ 10:38 a.m.

Fumber, I quote Eric Hoffer: "Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength." Gregor, though some of our founding fathers did, in fact, believe in a Creator, they strove for separation of church and state and insisted this nation not be founded on any one religion. I respect your right to believe in a God, as you respect mine not to. I just wish we could all respect EVERYONE'S right, gay or straight, Christian, Muslim or atheist, to participate in the CIVIL RIGHTS the rest of us enjoy.

Regarding the human race in general, I'm thinking it'll last as long as it kills itself off by overpopulating. And I'm not a "trannie," but I do have some very impressive tools, if you know what I mean. ;)

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AliceRobertson Aug. 12, 2008 @ 11:01 a.m.

I HEART Fred Williams. And you too Barbarella!

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historymatters Aug. 12, 2008 @ 9:25 p.m.

Ask Todd Gloria why he took so much money from Manchester's people if he really cares about the marriage ban.

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tomwins Aug. 13, 2008 @ 5:13 p.m.

This attempt to amend our State Constitutional is the majority religion trying to impose their values and opinions on everyone else. They will not rest until they do so and will even lie and cheat to accomplish their goals - talk about having an agenda! I am a gay man who currently has the right to marry; big “Thank you!” California Supreme Court. In March 2009 my partner of 7 years and I will exchange our vows before our friends, family, neighbors, and community at our church. I look forward to sharing in this ritual with the person with whom I share my life - the one who comforts and challenges me. My life is richer and I am a better person because I am with him. But because we are concerned that our rights will be taken away by this amendment, we rushed down to the County Clerk’s office to marry. There has been no time to plan the ceremony or give it the proper place it is due. Our family (living back East) was not able to be present or participate. The ceremony in March will be a celebration of our life together and our relationship. We will ask our family, friends, church, and community to stand with us and support and bless our marriage - and I know they will be there for us. So why should the majority religion impose their principles on me, my family, my church, my community? If they don't want to perform marriages between two men or two women - then don't. The accusation that churches are being forced to do anything against their will is false - as is the accusation that schools will be forced to teach anything. Many religious people are drawn to religion to feel safe because they are afraid. Unfortunately, there are too many religions which prey on people's fear. I am drawn to religion and spirituality to ask better questions and to be a part of a community that is seeking more meaningful answers.

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a2zresource Aug. 13, 2008 @ 6:57 p.m.

The question as to whether people other than those consisting of one man and one woman may marry is now a political question, hopefully to be settled with a vote this November.

If there is to be no restriction on the composition of a couple to be married, then either there should be no restriction whatsoever, or somebody is not going to be happy by somehow not having the "right" to marry the person of her or his choice. (This is not actually a "right", or anyone refusing a marriage proposal or seeking a divorce could be sued or even prosecuted as a civil rights violator.)

My bet is that there will be a lot of those somebodies without the right to marry by choice out there, even if the proposed California marriage amendment fails.

Anybody want to speak up for the rights of rapists and child molestors to marry their victims? At least, it should reduce our prison populations...

How about polygamy?

Incest, anyone?

I know somebody who not only loves her dogs, she LOVES her dogs... and I'm pretty sure they have first dibs on whatever is in her will...

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Fred Williams Aug. 14, 2008 @ 8:42 a.m.

It's a given that those who most loudly denounce "sin" are themselves obsessed with those same acts. Let's remember George Bush's once-a-week spiritual advisor, the Reverend Ted Haggart. He screamed about the evil homos and awful drug abusers louder than anyone...until he was caught snorting meth in bed with his boyfriend.

So my question to Gregor, a2zresource, and any other zealot who can string a few words into nearly coherent sentences is this:

  • Why are you so obsessed with sodomy and rape?

  • Why are you so obsessed with bestiality?

  • Why are you so obsessed with pedophilia?

It really isn't healthy for you to be so interested in these topics that you bring them up even when the conversation is about love, marriage, contractual law, and the state constitution. Those of us who have good mental health don't make these kind of associations. Yet you're always yammering on-and-on about this disgusting stuff...

Isn't there a confession you ought to make?

It's okay. You can tell us right here. We won't judge you harshly if you need help. Unlike X-ians, we have nothing but love and forgiveness for you, and want you to get the help you need before you do something you'll regret forever.

But until you have seen a professional to talk over these twisted obsessions of yours, you might want to stop embarrassing yourselves and calling your character into question by spewing perverted nonsense in a public forum.

In loving kindness,

Fred

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a2zresource Aug. 14, 2008 @ 10:06 a.m.

I'm rather confused. I wrote not of sin but of civil rights. In fact, I thought I did a fairly decent job of not impuning any religious overtones in my comments above, especially since most criminal jurisdictions recognize the crimes of incest, child moelstation and rape, and convicted criminals often have their civil rights limited in some fashion.

What I did say is that I don't believe there is a "right" to marriage, any more than there is a "right" to have an appeal heard by the Supreme Court, or a "right" to drive. One may apply for a driver's license, or submit an appeal to the Supreme Court, or ask somebody (perhaps one day anybody or even a group of somebodies) to marry, but if anyone truly believes that there are rights to actually have those things I mentioned awarded, heard or performed, then any and every denial of those alleged rights ought to be making certain classes of lawyers very rich for a very long time.

I can see that others have become curious about one's obession to brand others "who can string together a few words" as obsessive zealots. Not that obsession is necessarily a bad thing... I used to think it was a rather unique fragrance, myself...

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magicsfive May 22, 2009 @ 12:13 p.m.

fred used to be a cop?? that's hottt.

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SpliffAdamz_ May 22, 2009 @ 9:56 a.m.

Yes marriage is a agreement between two people to be with each other , but so are boyfriends and girlfriends. So we already have our own form of marriage with out god or the government interference. You don't have to marry someone to have an agreement to be sleeping with them , or be in a relationship with them. That's what boyfriends and girlfriends are for. But what you scrubs seem to not understand or already understand , is that marriage is a partnership between man and women that god only accepts as holy. That's why you go before a priest to ask god to bless your marriage. That is why you got all these dorks are trying to find other ways to get married. Because they are either non believers in god or their partner is of the same sex. And they only want the title marriage to disrespectful to what god accepts as a holy marriage!!!! So if you are atheist , i hope you didn't go to a church to get married because you look real fuccin stupid!!! Your at a church , standing at an altar , asking a priest to ask a god who you don't believe in to bless your marriage?? Do you know how fuccing stupid you look and sound!!!!! People have already created their own type of marriage. Without god or the government approval. They're are called boyfriends and girlfriends and there is no limit on how many you can have!!!!

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SpliffAdamz_ May 22, 2009 @ 11 a.m.

It's so damm funny to see people take gods laws and act like they are so bad or they make no sense. Or you get dummies like fred williams who gets scripture and only points out parts of the scripture to try and make you think that he knows what he is talking about!!!

2 kings 2(23-24) Is not about killing those who taunt bald people. It is about one of gods' prophet named Elisha being mocked for having a bald head by a group of young boys. Elisha turn to the group cruse them , and two bears came out and killed 42 of them. (it's not about the bald head , it's about don't mess with a prophet of god)

exodus 28(34-35) Yes god dose have guidelines for when you enter the temple of the lord , so why are you tripping. (every building in amerikkka has guidelines when you enter in them , but i don't hear you complaining about that though!!!!!)

numbers 31(31-40) Is not even talking about virgins or even killing women period. What the scripture is talking about , god is telling moses and eleazer to divide the spoils from the victory. A portion goes to god , a portion goes to the men that fought and a portion goes to those that didn't fight. (so demon boy fred where dose it say kill virgins? If your saying god kills virgin because god sent his people to destroy another group of people? Dose not amerikkka do the same thing? By sending it's hitman to other countries to take over and kill women and children?)

Deuteronomy 21(10-13) Again is not even talking about rape or killing virgins. The scripture is talking about , after a war and those that have been captured. If you see a women that you are fond of. Take her into your home live with her for a month and then you can marry her. (it says nothing about rape or killing. And did not amerikkkan troops do the same in the Nam and Korean war? Bring back women from those countries and marry them? But you ain't complaining about that right!!!!!)

Matthews 10(35-36) Yes jesus tells you to leave your family , if they don't believe in god. So if you are in a family that dose not believe in god , leave that family you have and follow jesus. Jesus is saying leave your family if they don't believe in the teachings of the god. Because the only thing that matters is the teachings of god.

If a person who believe that a man evolve from a monkey , but they can't say what tribe of monkey they come from. Are they really worth listen to?? They will always try to find ways to discredit or misinform people of the word of god , because they are still searching for the answers to life!!!

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SpliffAdamz_ May 22, 2009 @ 11:09 a.m.

Fred since you use to be a cop , we all know you use to get paid to grab another mans nutz for a paycheck. So is that why you keep on trying to point out homosexuality in the bible so much? It's because you were getting paid to tell a man to spread his legs so you could grab his nutz!!!!! I'm pretty sure you had fun on the job huh!?

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SpliffAdamz_ May 22, 2009 @ 11:57 a.m.

What is super funny , is to hear people say our (founding forefathers). If you people had a brain and used it , you might want to think about what you're saying. The people who started amerikkka were slave owners , who were for kidnapping , rape , child molesting and murder of anyone who got in their way!!! Your founding forefathers had people kidnapped and brought over here. They rape women and child for entertainment!!! They killed anyone who was not for their ideas on how to run the country!!! So for anyone to believe in those who started this country , i guess you believe in kidnapping , rape and murder just like them!! Because 11 of the first 13 presidents own slaves!!! None of them were look at as criminals , but they were and still look at as some sort of hero. So if you believe in amerikkka , then rapist , child molesters and murders should be celebrated instead of in jail for the same actions you praise your forefathers for!!!!!!!!!!

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Duhbya May 23, 2009 @ 4:37 a.m.

"Let's remember George Bush's once-a-week spiritual advisor, the Reverend Ted Haggart." Which got me to thinking....."Where is he now?" Oh, right......he's reborn (again) and selling life insurance. Spliff, maybe he's looking for a good man?

http://www.tedhaggard.com/

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SpliffAdamz_ May 23, 2009 @ 3:41 p.m.

Your president george bush and anyone affiliated with him can kiss the crack of my azz!!!! Any other president and their associates before or after him can do the same thang!!!!!

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