Chemtrails Over the Skies at Earthday?

History...(sigh) Alas- if all you watched was the 9 minute version of that Discovery show that you linked above...then you are being played...such is the internet... The show was an hour long...it had many experts- atmospheric scientists (Patrick Minnis)- claiming that the idea was complete nonsense...that snippet of the show you provided is a propaganda piece...Surely you are more discerning than that? Or if you did watch the whole show and then just link that biased propaganda piece, then you are part of the problem. The terms I provided do not just "facilitate further discussions by professionals" - they explain how the atmosphere works and how jet exhaust interacts with the atmosphere...it explains how and why contrails persist...it is proof that "normal" contrails can and do persist, spread and cover the sky in a haze of cirrus clouds. (contrail cirrus) Does it prove that "they" (it is supposedly a global operation by the way) are not spraying anything - no. But it does show that seeing a persistent contrail in the sky- or multiple trails- and saying definitively that they are "chemtrail" is an illogical assertion based on nothing more than internet hysteria. ...and that simple premise is what the entire "theory" is based on- the internet is filled with pictures of "chemtrails", filled with videos of "spray" planes- definitive declarations of proof...when it is highly probable, extremely likely even- that they are just persistent contrails- given the science of the atmosphere and its proven interaction with jet exhaust; given the historical precedent set by scientific fact. Doesn't it bother you that not a single atmospheric scientist-any where in the World- who studies these things- is alarmed by the sight of a persistent contrail? ...or thinks there is anything nefarious taking place? ...even 9/11 "truthers" had some quasi engineers... The vast majority of- if not ALL- "chemtrail" believers point to persistent trails as evidence....when it can not be evidence since it is a known behavior of normal trails...it is really quite simple. So, when you took those pictures of the trails you posted- were they from military jets? The "chemtrail" community is not unified as to whether it is only military jets or commercial too...some say it is all planes some say it is not...Some think they can discern between a military plane or not from 10 or miles away...most do not even see the plane leave the trail- just see the trail and claim it is a "chemtrail". Ask all the questions you want...but learn how to discern the answer.
— April 30, 2009 11:06 a.m.

Chemtrails Over the Skies at Earthday?

(continued)... People reading this are no doubt saying I am a paid disinfo agent or shill or whatever...but the fact remains most- if not all- "chemtrail" believers are woefully ignorant of the information needed to accurately judge what they think they see in the sky...instead they get fed huge amounts of inaccurate information- outright fallacies in some cases- on the web- put forth with no sourcing of info or consequence for error and the herd just nods in agreement and calls anyone who disagrees a "disinfo" agent- its sad really... Its easy to learn though- educate yourself on atmospheric science and contrail formation. I have given so much info on this very thread- terms and even papers to start with... History- did you google a single term I gave you? Why not? here are some neat photos- from 1970: http://www.life.com/image/72931185?xid=embedimage… http://www.life.com/image/72931158?xid=embedimage…
— April 29, 2009 3:27 p.m.

Chemtrails Over the Skies at Earthday?

notice I did not say stupid-ignorance in the literal sense of the term- unknowing;unaware if someone believes that all contrails dissipate within a few seconds, they are ignorant of the reality of persistent contrails. As you indicated, you are ignorant of atmospheric science so, speculating as to what the weather is like 6 miles above you is not a logical proposition. Just FYI- the weather on the ground as no bearing on the conditions at 35K feet. It is always well below zero at that altitude and thus the heat of exhaust from a jet engine is always in conflict with the ambient air. Whether a contrail forms at all or if it does, persists or not has to do with a range of variables from both the plane and the ambient atmosphere. "otherwise wouldn't they create systems of some sort that would at least create clouds?" What do you think contrails are?? They are clouds of ice- much like cirrus clouds. And by calling every contrail a "chemtrail" you are exposing your bias and calling your objectivity into question. Rosalind is no doubt well meaning however, collecting ground water samples and implying they are from contrails is not a scientifically sound deduction...and seems all the more dubious coming from someone who should know better. The fact remains, contrails get sampled directly- in situ- right from the plume frequently, globally...and not one has ever been found to contain anything more than what would be expected in jet exhaust. There are much more likely, logical sources of contaminants on the ground...never mind that barium (and arsenic) is one of the most common elements found in ground water as it is present as a trace element in both igneous and sedimentary rocks. Not mention the science of fall rates and dispersal theory is such that particulate matter in the size found in any contrail above you would never fall directly down on you but instead drift for 100s or 1000s of miles before- if ever- hitting the ground. again, so much that people are so...er..unaware of and yet point to the sky and think they know because they read it on the internet... (SNIP)
— April 29, 2009 3:26 p.m.

Chemtrails Over the Skies at Earthday?

History- "But for god sakes give us an explanation (and I am addressing the gov) that doesn't have any holes in to say that it is." but thats it...There IS an explanation- the behavior of contrails has been explained by science for years...the laymen is ignorant of that, reads some alarmist rant on the internet and looks up in fear...and then resists the explanation when given to them. There WAS evidence that smoking was bad- people died from lung cancer...and the evidence was buried... There IS no similar evidence...the material in the troposphere never even reaches the ground...there is much more pollution from sources much closer to you than a plane... ...yes, the the housewife from Canada is very concerned- she no doubt googled "chemtrails" and found a large body of "information" put forth in shrill cries of fear and speculation... ..of course, she thinks all contrails dissipate in 22 seconds or less...apparently ignorance is not bliss... Van LePort-....of course, you do.
— April 27, 2009 8:38 a.m.

Chemtrails Over the Skies at Earthday?

no doubt that governments do bad things...and tested and dropped stuff etc... ...but that does not override the fact that there is simply NO evidence of a "spraying" operation via persistent trails- for so very many reasons... ...the first and foremost is that a persistent trail that spreads and covers the sky in a haze is not an anomaly, it is a "normal" behavior of contrails- not all contrails all the time- but has been observed, documented and researched for over 40 years...and thus, seeing a trail doing just that is not evidence of anything. You cannot- as most "chemtrail" believers do- point to to a persistent trail and say its a "chemtrail"! its a "spray" plane...that is simply an illogical assertion that is contrary to the science of contrail formation, behavior and historical precedent. ...and yet, that simple observation is what the entire premise of the "chemtrail" theory is based on. ...there is much more- the logistics, the efficacy of depositing material in the troposphere to effect populations (your England example no doubt was a low level event)- the complete unlikihood of anything in a trail above you falling on you and not drifting for 100s and 1000s of mile- making assertion of effects from trails above highly dubious...and on and on... There is a lot of concern about persistent contrails and their possible effects on regional climate- they do block the sun and trap some heat...and thus there are a lot of atmospheric scientists around the world studying them...and not one of them are looking up and seeing a "spray" campaign... look up "contrail cirrus" for more background...
— April 25, 2009 8:52 a.m.

Chemtrails Over the Skies at Earthday?

LU- the atmosphere CAN change abruptly...that is why you will see gaps in trails- that is why clouds have gaps in them...but that doesn't mean it always is the case. The persistence of any given contrail has a lot of variables that will dictate its behavior- a major one is the level of humidity with respect to ice. Ice supersaturation it is called. Ice supersaturated areas can be small pockets or wide swaths covering 100s of miles. Look up "supersaturated persistent contrail" for more info. The specific engine of any plane also plays a large role as different engines have different exhaust signatures ( level of particulate matter and temp of output...and this even changes as a planes increase or decrease thrust) Look up "contrail factor" for more info. a couple of other sites to check out- NASA as a model for attempting to forecast contrail formation- its admittedly not 100% accurate but worth a look: http://www-angler.larc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/site/show… Also- at any given moment there are over 5000 planes in the sky in the US...and SoCal is some of the busiest airspace in the World...flight patterns ARE organized- so they do not crash- if conditions are ripe for persistent contrails then they will also look organized- and cross each other- like a grid- ...its always interesting to see just how many planes are in the sky at any given time- and this site allows you do that- check it out: http://flightaware.com/
— April 24, 2009 8:53 a.m.

Chemtrails Over the Skies at Earthday?

History- Well...if you want to play semantics then even "normal" contrails are "chemtrails" as they release chemicals in their exhaust. Your car is spreading "chemtrails". However, that is not the thrust of the "chemtrail" theory- "Chemtrails"- as purveyed by the internet herd- is a global, clandestine "spray" campaign of unknown origin and unknown intent (or multiple purposes depending on which website you visit) and is delivered via long lasting trails that spread and cover the sky in a haze... ...this really has nothing to do with traditional cloudseeding via silver iodide flares...as, once again, they do not take place in the troposphere, do not involve long lasting trails that spread and do not occur in clear skies as purported "chemtrails" usually do. But whatever... I truly suggest you research a lot more so you can calm your fears and focus on your other issues. Thanks for listening.
— April 23, 2009 8:38 a.m.

Chemtrails Over the Skies at Earthday?

Cloud seeding is not the same as purported "chemtrails"...lets be clear about that. Saying they "chemtrailed" to get it to rain is confusing the issue and not accurate. Again, cloud seeding has NOTHING to do with persistent trails in the sky that people point to in fear. China seeded the clouds via ground based rockets that launched iodide flares. The fact that it rained does not mean it rained because they seeded the clouds...correlation does not equal causation. It was not "cut in (sic) dry" - there is no definitive proof seeding actually works: http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11857… Cloud seeding is typically done when there is a very high probability of precipitation to begin with...it is used to enhance the rainfall amounts...see here for a bit more info: http://www.nawcinc.com/wmfaq.html China seeded the clouds via ground based rockets that launched iodide flares: http://blogs.wsj.com/chinajournal/2008/08/09/bann… So...getting back to the basic premise- "normal" contrails can and do persist, spread and cover the sky in a sheet of cirrus clouds..and any one or website that says contrails dissipate- "chemtrails" don't- is wrong- they are either lying or ignorant.
— April 22, 2009 9:08 p.m.

Chemtrails Over the Skies at Earthday?

I did not dismiss "anything" you had to say- I simply dismissed the assertion that "contrails dissipate- chemtrails don't"... The facts are quickly ascertained via a web search on the terms I provided...if you really can't be bothered to do simple research than what is the point of even bringing it up? If you really must have your hand held- here are some starting points: http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc%5Fsr/… http://tinyurl.com/4qyaww (the original URL was way too long) That should get you started- If you actually taker a few moments and look up the terms I provided, you will see there are literally 100s of papers written in the last 40yrs by scientists from all over the world detailing the persistence, spreading and cirrus inducing behavior of contrails...Something that is completely ignored by the "chemtrail" crowd. Not only was the Louisiana sample (it was actually Arkansas but reported in LA) not a "standard scientific sample", it cannot be considered a sample of a contrail AT ALL. To then use it as potential evidence is disingenuous at best and fear mongering at worst. Moreover, the "sample" was incorrectly reported- the levels found were not in any way out of the norm- see here for more details: http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/ As for cloud seeding- again- if you do the research you will understand that it takes specific conditions for cloud seeding to even have a remote chance of working (there is still not definitive evidence that it does work despite decades of attempts)- conditions that rarely- if ever- occur in San Diego...and again, the attempts (launching silver iodide via flares) do not take place in the same part of the atmosphere as contrails or result in persisting trails of any kind...so, seeing persisting trails and insinuating they are related to cloud seeding is not a logical assertion. I am not trying to dismiss your concerns...seeing multiple persistent contrails can be disconcerting when you are not informed...but the ignorance that pervades the "chemtrail" faithful regarding the known, observed behavior of contrails is quite a handicap toward being taken seriously. Oh...one more thing...the Discovery Channel DID do a show on contrails/"chemtrails"...about 2 years ago I think...you should be able to find it online...unless you need me to look that up for you too :)
— April 22, 2009 6:27 p.m.

Chemtrails Over the Skies at Earthday?

the author- and all believers in Chemtrails- needs to understand that comments like these "I learned that a contrail is essentially just a vapor trail left by a jet that disappears within a few minutes." ...is simply not accurate. Some contrails do dissipate in a few minutes- or even seconds...some, however, persist for hours and even days. These persistent contrails have been studied by atmospheric scientists for well over 40 years. "vapor" trail is a bit of a misnomer- contrails are actually ice clinging to particles of soot from burnt jet fuel. They are very similar to cirrus clouds and are often found together. ...a few terms to research for better understanding of "normal" contrail behavior: supersaturated persistent contrail contrail cirrus contrail factor (relates to how each particular engine and even level of thrust for each engine effects contrail formation and persistence) The theme of most "chemtrail" advocates that "contrails dissipate- chemtrails don't" is simply false...thus an entire theory is in large part based on a false premise. Even IF "chemtrails" existed you could not tell just by seeing one in the sky... Lets be clear about a few other things- no sample of a contrail take in situ- directly from the plume- has ever been found to contain anything other than would be expected from burnt jet fuel....and there have been plenty of samples taken by scientists over the past 40 years- around the world. simply look up: in situ contrail sample. The example the author used of the Louisiana "sample" consisted of somebody putting a jar on the hood of their car for 3 weeks and claiming the contents came from "chemtrails"...do I need to point out the issues with that?? Cloud seeding is practiced in this country as well as China and elsewhere and has been done for a long time- is not clandestine, does not involve the troposphere (where contrails are found) and does not involve long persistent trails. See here for more info: http://www.weathermod.com/
— April 22, 2009 2:54 p.m.