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Believers and unbelievers

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Letters to the Editor

Self-Wrongeous

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Self-Wrongeous

Answering Saul Harmon Gritz’s letter (May 1) responding to David Child’s letter (April 24) asking for a Reader section devoted to atheistic concerns.

Mr. Gritz, you seem to intend to speak for atheists, but what you write indicates that not only do you not understand what an atheist is, but you are almost certainly not one.

To shed some light: Some people, called theists, believe that there is at least one god. They can’t prove it, but base their belief on faith. Some people, called atheists, believe that there is not even one god in the universe. They can’t prove there is/are no god/s, but they, also, base their belief on faith.

Please note, Mr. Gritz, that atheists are not unbelievers — they believe strongly that no god exists. If you are a nonbeliever, you are not an atheist. You are the following.

Some people, called agnostics, do not believe and do not disbelieve that any god exists. They remain undecided for the reason that they can’t prove the god proposition one way for the other, and they are sticklers for proof — they can’t or won’t resort to faith to establish truth or belief. Theists and athiests have a lot in common. Agnostics are the hard cases.

All three kinds of thinkers think they are right, and are proud of being right, and will tell you so; which means that they (we) are all self-righteous. That’s ok. Who would want to be self-wrongeous?

I’m with you in nixing Mr. Child’s demand for a Reader page for nonreligious affairs and viewpoints. The whole magazine is devoted to nonreligious affairs. Come on, Mr. Child!

Dorothy Casey via snail mail

Financial Rape

It would be a good idea for you to forward this article (“Electricity Refund? Not in California,” City Lights, May 8) to the California State Attorney General’s office, under “Utility Fraud and

Ripoff.”

As it is, I have had solar since 2009 and last year my Summer Rates were under $5.00, but $5 is what I had to pay as a minimum, and I got no end-of-year rebate.

This year my rates are $20 to $25. Nothing has changed; I still make the same amount of kilowatts. Now, as you say, they want us to pay for mistakes, fraud, and reuse of old parts by Edison’s maintainence of the San Onofre Plant. Why should the rate payers have the burden of clean-up and tear-down? Meanwhile, the shareholders still receive their dividends. It’s worse than wrong. It’s financial rape by the people who are suppose to protect us — the California Publlic Utilites.

Edison, who claimed the facility had no problems and San Diego Gas and Electric for their part, all reap the benefits and sail off free and clear. As you have said, any lawsuits will probably go on for many years, well past my lifetime. And, as you say, there is no refund. All their public notices are lies.

It’s time the State of California, Attorney General got involved!

  • Carol Muszynski
  • Del Cerro

Disappointed

I’m calling regarding how there is no Diary of a Diva and no Ed Bedford in the May 1 issue. I’m disappointed because I love to read Ed Bedford and Diary of a Diva. I read everything else in the magazine, but the two that I read the most are those two. I also like Neighborhood News and Letters.

  • Name Withheld
  • via voicemail

A Parking Lot Full of Pickups

I just finished reading your article on country bars in San Diego (“Country Conundrum,” April 15). I own the Renegade and for the first time in the ten years I have owned the bar we were actually mentioned in an article. We are the oldest country bar in San Diego and have live country bands every weekend, yet never a mention of us in any of your articles.

This comes as no surprise as we have been ignored by the only country radio station as well. I realize we are in East County and you seem to concentrate on downtown and the beach areas, and East County always gets left out.

There are some excellent clubs in East County and some very talented musicians. All you need to do is get off the beaten path for a while and check us out. The Renegade has promoted and showcased local talent over the last ten years with some of the bands going on to bigger and better things. We have great crowds on Friday and Saturday nights with great live country bands, a packed dance floor, a great staff, and a parking lot full of pickup trucks. Come and check us out sometime and you will find East County’s best kept secret.

  • Will Cook
  • Owner, Renegade Bar

Sterilized Stories

Dear Scott Marks:

I’m also a Jew and I want to applaud your excellent reply to that jackass commentary (“Jackass Journalism,” Letters, May 1).

I saw the movie [Walking with the Enemy] and was struck by how there were no Jews acting, except maybe one playing a Nazi, or some other adjunct role. The main character and his romantic interest completely obliterated the tragedy, as if some comic character could take on this huge apparatus. Then there was the smiling response of the actress when the holy nuns took in the Jewish children — a man left the theater at that point.

What you say is so true. There are children whose entire knowledge of what happened derives from these sterilized, caramelized stories. Would that more survivors would have spoken the truth. Someday the American Jews, remnants of that lost world, may speak out, what we remember being told to us, so that more truth can come forth.

There was a man and his family in the theater who participated in creating the explosions. He was part Native American, and said the film was filmed in Romania. Too bad they didn’t find some gypsies to play us.

I wonder about the real men in the story, Lutz and Rosenbaum, and the motivations of those creating this movie. The man who worked on it said it was originally going to be about Lutz, but they added this romantic story and changed things.

Thank you for your recommendations.

  • Name Withheld
  • La Jolla
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Podcast episode

Letters to the Editor

Self-Wrongeous

Download podcast

Self-Wrongeous

Answering Saul Harmon Gritz’s letter (May 1) responding to David Child’s letter (April 24) asking for a Reader section devoted to atheistic concerns.

Mr. Gritz, you seem to intend to speak for atheists, but what you write indicates that not only do you not understand what an atheist is, but you are almost certainly not one.

To shed some light: Some people, called theists, believe that there is at least one god. They can’t prove it, but base their belief on faith. Some people, called atheists, believe that there is not even one god in the universe. They can’t prove there is/are no god/s, but they, also, base their belief on faith.

Please note, Mr. Gritz, that atheists are not unbelievers — they believe strongly that no god exists. If you are a nonbeliever, you are not an atheist. You are the following.

Some people, called agnostics, do not believe and do not disbelieve that any god exists. They remain undecided for the reason that they can’t prove the god proposition one way for the other, and they are sticklers for proof — they can’t or won’t resort to faith to establish truth or belief. Theists and athiests have a lot in common. Agnostics are the hard cases.

All three kinds of thinkers think they are right, and are proud of being right, and will tell you so; which means that they (we) are all self-righteous. That’s ok. Who would want to be self-wrongeous?

I’m with you in nixing Mr. Child’s demand for a Reader page for nonreligious affairs and viewpoints. The whole magazine is devoted to nonreligious affairs. Come on, Mr. Child!

Dorothy Casey via snail mail

Financial Rape

It would be a good idea for you to forward this article (“Electricity Refund? Not in California,” City Lights, May 8) to the California State Attorney General’s office, under “Utility Fraud and

Ripoff.”

As it is, I have had solar since 2009 and last year my Summer Rates were under $5.00, but $5 is what I had to pay as a minimum, and I got no end-of-year rebate.

This year my rates are $20 to $25. Nothing has changed; I still make the same amount of kilowatts. Now, as you say, they want us to pay for mistakes, fraud, and reuse of old parts by Edison’s maintainence of the San Onofre Plant. Why should the rate payers have the burden of clean-up and tear-down? Meanwhile, the shareholders still receive their dividends. It’s worse than wrong. It’s financial rape by the people who are suppose to protect us — the California Publlic Utilites.

Edison, who claimed the facility had no problems and San Diego Gas and Electric for their part, all reap the benefits and sail off free and clear. As you have said, any lawsuits will probably go on for many years, well past my lifetime. And, as you say, there is no refund. All their public notices are lies.

It’s time the State of California, Attorney General got involved!

  • Carol Muszynski
  • Del Cerro

Disappointed

I’m calling regarding how there is no Diary of a Diva and no Ed Bedford in the May 1 issue. I’m disappointed because I love to read Ed Bedford and Diary of a Diva. I read everything else in the magazine, but the two that I read the most are those two. I also like Neighborhood News and Letters.

  • Name Withheld
  • via voicemail

A Parking Lot Full of Pickups

I just finished reading your article on country bars in San Diego (“Country Conundrum,” April 15). I own the Renegade and for the first time in the ten years I have owned the bar we were actually mentioned in an article. We are the oldest country bar in San Diego and have live country bands every weekend, yet never a mention of us in any of your articles.

This comes as no surprise as we have been ignored by the only country radio station as well. I realize we are in East County and you seem to concentrate on downtown and the beach areas, and East County always gets left out.

There are some excellent clubs in East County and some very talented musicians. All you need to do is get off the beaten path for a while and check us out. The Renegade has promoted and showcased local talent over the last ten years with some of the bands going on to bigger and better things. We have great crowds on Friday and Saturday nights with great live country bands, a packed dance floor, a great staff, and a parking lot full of pickup trucks. Come and check us out sometime and you will find East County’s best kept secret.

  • Will Cook
  • Owner, Renegade Bar

Sterilized Stories

Dear Scott Marks:

I’m also a Jew and I want to applaud your excellent reply to that jackass commentary (“Jackass Journalism,” Letters, May 1).

I saw the movie [Walking with the Enemy] and was struck by how there were no Jews acting, except maybe one playing a Nazi, or some other adjunct role. The main character and his romantic interest completely obliterated the tragedy, as if some comic character could take on this huge apparatus. Then there was the smiling response of the actress when the holy nuns took in the Jewish children — a man left the theater at that point.

What you say is so true. There are children whose entire knowledge of what happened derives from these sterilized, caramelized stories. Would that more survivors would have spoken the truth. Someday the American Jews, remnants of that lost world, may speak out, what we remember being told to us, so that more truth can come forth.

There was a man and his family in the theater who participated in creating the explosions. He was part Native American, and said the film was filmed in Romania. Too bad they didn’t find some gypsies to play us.

I wonder about the real men in the story, Lutz and Rosenbaum, and the motivations of those creating this movie. The man who worked on it said it was originally going to be about Lutz, but they added this romantic story and changed things.

Thank you for your recommendations.

  • Name Withheld
  • La Jolla
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Comments
7

Somebody up there in La Jolla likes me! Unaccustomed as I am to having positive thoughts sent my way, this came as quite a pleasant surprise. Thanks! The thought of non-Jews cast in Jewish roles never once crossed my mind. Years of constant exposure to Charlie Chan pictures has obviously softened my brain. One question: why the cloak of anonymity, Name Withheld? Are you afraid that members of your Congregation might catch wind of your anarchic comments and deny your missus a poolside seat at the mikvah? I wish more Jews would consider how much historical fraudulence and audience manipulation goes into making these pictures before giving them the rubber-stamp based solely on subject matter. Thanks again for the hug. Yours in Holocaust-film denial, Scott

May 14, 2014

In reply to Dorothy Casey regarding her letter of response to my "Equal Time" letter to the San Diego Reader of April 24: I don't know where these religious believers come up with such erroneous ideas and claims as she cites. Anything I suppose, in attempts to protect their religions which intrinsically have no evidence nor proof. Dorothy Casey herself awash in her own "self-wrongness": "Some people, called atheists, believe that there is not even one god in the universe....atheists are not unbelievers — they believe strongly that no god exists". Dorothy, you are perfectly wrong in these, your statements. Atheism is not a belief. Atheism is not belief. Atheism is the absense of religious/god belief based upon reason, rationality, logic, and reality so far as we know it. No agnostic or atheist accepts nor adopts any of the common beliefs regarding the existence of any gods, nor do atheists hold their own beliefs in these regards. Dorothy, atheists and agnostics do not believe, they understand facts. They know facts, real facts. Athiesm is a knowledge, not a belief. For example: If tomorrow some proper authority offered up evidence or proof based upon real facts that one or some of the hundreds of gods some people believe in actually exited, then any intelligent atheist would entertain this evidence or proof and appropriately research the information. If found to be accurate/factual, then atheists and agnostics would know this information as probable or true to some extent (still not believing in anything). Atheists can give evidence and proof in real and factual probability, very significant probability, that there are no gods nor intelligent designer(s) of nor to this life and this world that we know. Finally, It appears only the theists disagree with the San Diego Reader running a bimonthly column devoted to humanism, secularism, agnosticism, atheism, free-thinking, evolution and science and the personalities, political, social, medical/health implications of these subjects; In and for an equal and fair opportunity for all 'San Deigo Readers' education, enhanced knowledge, and understanding of said subject matter.

May 14, 2014

surfflyer is mistaken on two points: (1) The word "atheism" was coined by the Greeks, and it was used to refer NOT to lack of belief in god(s), but to a belief that there were no gods. It is only in recent times that professed atheists, in order to make it unnecessary for them to have to prove their position, tried to adjust the meaning of the term so that it could refer to lack of belief. (2) If surfflyer were correct that atheism is a lack of belief, then it cannot also be "based on" anything. Only a belief can be based on something. Atheism can't be a "knowledge" because knowledge is an understanding of facts, and a lack of belief carries no facts. A lack means nothing is there. For example, if I said I lacked a belief in aliens on other planets, this would simply mean that I have never encountered any evidence to suggest that there were. I cannot say I have a knowledge that there are no aliens, because I may not even have studied the subject. On the other hand, if I said I believed that there were no aliens on other planets, this would suggest that I have seen evidence that no aliens exist. I therefore can say my belief is based on something. Therefore, if atheism is a lack of belief, then it is not a knowledge. If atheism is a belief that there are no gods, then it could be a knowledge. As for the Greeks, they used the term agnostic for someone who had no belief, and that is the term best used for it.

May 14, 2014

Dr. Miano... please read my most recent comment. Your comments make little sense. Lack of beliefs can be based upon many things. Atheists repeatedly prove their positions based in reality...not in supernatural bullshit that anyone can say and that anyone can make any claim at all such as all the religious resort to...

May 17, 2014

To respond to Dr. Miano if I may: From "The Oxford Dictionaries": Definition of atheist in English: Atheist; noun, "A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods". Exactly where would I be "mistaken" Dr.? Atheism is the absence of religious/god belief based upon reason, rationality, logic, and reality so far as we know it. Atheism is from early Greek comes from "a"...not; and "theos"... god. The view that there are no gods. Commonly, not believing in god; or more strictly, there is no god. (Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy). A rejection of religious belief and the existence of a god or many gods. (Webster's new world dictionary). All of the above is based in and upon the ontological arguments, reason, factual evidence, paleontological and archeological evidence and the predominance of the lack of historical, geographical, and physical evidence of artifacts and location; DNA evidence, and todays scientifically advanced knowledge of the world, universe and cosmos...and based in rationality and logic. Lack of beliefs are based upon many things Dr. Miano. And atheism is a knowledge. Atheism is not a belief nor a belief system nor dogma. A knowledge of the facts in many cases involved herein. The extraordinary claims made by theists of thousands of stripes around the world lack the extraordinary evidence and any extraordinary proof at all of and for their religious and spiritual and gods/goddesses claims being real. You are mistaken Dr., and your logic is very much incorrect...convoluted, circular; as is all of the religious' argumentation.

May 21, 2014

Self-wrong - I believe in evolution and learning to understand scientific research, intellegent growth and changes so I don't participate or reccomend oppressive organized religions any more. The bible stories are fables; ancient art. There are several other books claiming divinity, still man-made. Spirituality is a whole other apple. Read.

May 14, 2014

Thank you William R. Dickson. We must be watchful of the delusioned religious likes of ther Dorothy Casey's, the Bob Hudson's and the Saul Harmon Gritz's for their unending attempts to erroneously redefine atheists, agnostics and freethinkers to fit their religion's make-belief. I hope we can move on quickly to more interesting subjects ...such as why doesn't the SDReader do a story about the brilliant Carl Sagan? Or an interview with San Diego frequent visitor Lawrence Krauss? Atheism from early Greek comes from "a"...not; and "theos"... god. The view that there are no gods. Commonly, not believing in god; or more strictly, there is no god. (Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy). A rejection of religious belief and the existence of a god or many gods.(Webster's new world dictionary). All of the above based in the ontological arguments, reason, factual evidence, paleontological and archeological evidence, scientific advanced knowledge of the world, universe and cosmos...rationality and logic. As for myself, I do not believe in the Abrahamic gods ...and prophets... also because of the absolute ridiculous and ludicrous nonsense of their respective stories, and the bigger picture; where people are born and raised and the tribe that raises them tells them their god is the only god, believe in this god...and not the others. Everyone of a religion says this, and they are all in contradiction of each other. We atheists belief in just one less gad than these Abrahamic religions (Actually, you see, xtians, muslims and jews are all atheists...they don't believe in the other's god/gods/prophets...strongly. So silly). There are a few thousand religions alive on this planet today, and everyone says theirs is the only one. the one true one. As Dorothy Casey says, "Come on Mr. Child". As Carl "Sagan says, "any preexisting predisposition to religious belief can be powerfully in fluenced by the indigenous culture, wherever you happen to grow up". And still these religious people continue to fight over who's religion is better than the other's. Ridiculous. So easy to see that it is all nonsense.

May 17, 2014

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