Gallagher says the project’s critics are “people who know so little.” He says it will take much less than a billion dollars to build the deck. “We hired the number-one engineering firm in the world.” The adjacent Hilton San Diego Bayfront hotel on the site of the former Campbell Shipyards, subsidized by the port, is on the same kind of land as his proposed deck. He insists that any use of the ground floor would be for “traffic vehicles that will come in at the lower level.” He says he approached the Burlington Northern: “You might as well try to get an audience with the Pope. The railroad is not giving up one cubic inch of air rights.” Arguments against the project — such as that the Navy might depart in a huff — are “laughable, ludicrous.”

Gallagher says the Tenth Avenue Marine Terminal brings in a very small amount of cargo; the National City Marine Terminal does the heavy lifting. But McCormack says that Tenth Avenue is critical because it brings in goods that don’t fit into containers, and the big West Coast ports specialize in containers. And the tonnage at Tenth and National City are about equal, she says. Gallagher says National City handles much more tonnage. Employment is not that different: National City has 995 employees and Tenth Avenue 822, according to Gallagher’s numbers.

Gallagher and Chase are managing members of the group that’s promoting the project, “and we are definitely raising capital from others,” Gallagher says. “But the first thing is to get the initiative passed,” and then talk with those who have an interest in the project, such as residents of Barrio Logan. You can bet that local groups promoting sports corporate welfare will be solicited.

Sums up Erie, “This $2 billion gift in such a short time frame is a perversion of the initiative process. It is a scam. San Diego has never met a developer it doesn’t like.”


NovemberMan Sept. 5, 2008 @ 1:31 a.m.

Wasn't this a minor plot point in 'Arrested Development'? Building land on the ocean to build stuff on? It would be an engineering marvel if they could pull it off as advertised (and not, as planned as a land grab), but such concepts and "San Diego" are mutually exclusive.


Anon92107 Sept. 5, 2008 @ 3:25 a.m.

Don, maybe the ultimate solution is to build electric power transmission lines all over the place to make it totally useless and uglier than ever before just to prove that things can get worse.


Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2008 @ 6:56 a.m.

Response to post #45: Just what we need: another government bureaucracy. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2008 @ 11:36 a.m.

Response to post #54: I'm sure San Diego judges would give your plan an OK. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2008 @ 6:58 a.m.

Response to post #46: John Wayne was called "The Duke." The double-deck project is already being called "The Dupe." You and Disney have good ideas there. Best, Don Bauder


Anon92107 Sept. 3, 2008 @ 12:19 p.m.

Re: “This $2 billion gift in such a short time frame is a perversion of the initiative process. It is a scam. San Diego has never met a developer it doesn’t like.”

Imagine that, another U-T Establishment “scam” against We The People of San Diego.

Using the initiative/hoax process to scam We The People has become far too easy, and seems to prove that we all have corruption and greed genes wired into our DNA which it is why it is so easy to scam Diegans.

Once again, our latest civilization is proving to be no different than all the failed civilizations before us, and we can expect the same results as a result of our wired in ability to self-destruct.


Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2008 @ 7:01 a.m.

Response to post #47: San Diego passed a measure permitting the mayor to pick his own auditor. I think it is logical to assume that this one will pass; it's even more ridiculous. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2008 @ 3:53 p.m.

Response to post #1: If corruption is in our genes, then San Diego would have no more corruption than any other city. But it is one of the more corrupt cities in the U.S. Best, Don Bauder


Fred Williams Sept. 3, 2008 @ 4:05 p.m.

"Hoax" is exactly the word to describe this misleading initiative.

If this one passes, San Diego should declare immediate bankruptcy. With crooks like these running our downtown, it's doomed.


a2zresource Sept. 3, 2008 @ 6:56 p.m.

If this initiative is doomed to fail, then it is the right time for it to fail.

It is likely that this initiative will be a referendum on this city's ability to rein in CCDC, SEDC, Blackwater, Sunroad, developers in general, and the assorted consultant-moneychangers who attach themselves onto anything decent and corrupt it beyond recognition before the taxpayers and voters of San Diego.


Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2008 @ 9:15 p.m.

Response to post #3: I can just imagine how much money will be thrown into passing this initiative. The international sports council will line up the corporate welfare bucks, even though the Chamber of Commerce says it is against it. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2008 @ 9:18 p.m.

Response to post #4: I hope the initiative becomes just that -- a referendum on corporate welfare and the developers' ownership of the pols -- and the right side wins. But maybe I am asking too much. Best, Don Bauder


JohnnyVegas Sept. 3, 2008 @ 9:27 p.m.

The cat is out of the bag and this dog don't hunt.


Anon92107 Sept. 4, 2008 @ 4:28 a.m.

Response to post #2:

Re: “But it is one of the more corrupt cities in the U.S.” Doesn’t really matter anymore Don, in the overall grand scheme of things that are truly most important corruption has dominated events in all civilizations that have failed before ours for 5000 years proving that corruption and our other self-destructive failure modes such as war and poverty are a way of life for the human race.

What really matters far more importantly today is that we now have a whole new set of challenges for humanity that are already out of control with climate change events such as glacial melt, drought, wildfires and storms, and their impacts will have far more unacceptable consequences and impacts on our lives in this century.

Don Bauder’s column alone keeps proving that our corrupt legislative and judicial processes are totally unable to even begin to deal with these new events as we continue to burn gasoline and waste water as if there were no consequences that should really motivate us into immediate actions to protect the future even for Gen Y and all generations that may yet survive our failures today.

As of last night “Drill Baby Drill!” is our newest motto, and the democratic party is brain-dead in the water overwhelmed by disunity once again.


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 6:50 a.m.

Response to post #7: Ain't nobody gonna mix metaphors on this blog. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 6:52 a.m.

Response to post #8: "Drill Baby Drill" may prove as societally destructive as "Burn Baby Burn" of the 1960s. Best, Don Bauder


paul Sept. 4, 2008 @ 9:21 a.m.


From reading you for years in the UT, I know that San Diego is one of the worst offenders in the country for mail fraud, ponzi scams, investment scams, elder abuse scams and self-help wealth-building scams that often net the principals lavish homes in Rancho Santa Fe (and all too infrequently, a stint at Lompoc). It would seem that there is a strong connection between that and the way our government conducts its business.

I'm curious what other areas of the country have a similar incidence of this type of fraud (parts of New Jersey spring to mind), and whether their local governments are similarly ethically challenged.


paul Sept. 4, 2008 @ 10:04 a.m.

Response to #8 and #10:

I sat completely dumbfounded during the chant of "drill baby drill". They might as well have been shouting "greed baby greed". It is incomprehensible to me to think that slogan will resonate anywhere but in that room.

The damage done to our national security through Bush's support of the oil industry has been staggering. I thought McCain and his group had at least some understanding of that, but now this?


Fred Williams Sept. 4, 2008 @ 10:31 a.m.

VP hopeful Palin and San Diego both want to drill, baby, drill.

Palin, who's daughter knows what it means to get drilled, on entering office as Mayor of a suburb immediately drilled the local librarian on how to remove "objectionable" books.

Similarly, here in San Diego, where our library system is increasingly inadequate, we're not presented with "objectionable" material in the first place. When we get drilled, we're told it's true love.

Perhaps if Uber Conservative Palin had allowed her girl to read about safe sex and contraceptives, instead smirking along to the failed faith-based "abstinence education", her daughter's drilling might not have had such newsworthy consequences.

On San Diego's waterfront, The 10th Avenue Job Destruction Initiative ought to be read by every voter. Penetrating this dark hole of deception requires repeated thrusts and perhaps alcoholic lubrication before you drill down to the ugly bits.

Better wear a condom, rubber gloves, and a gas mask to protect yourself.

If we pass this 10th Avenue Jobs Destruction Initiative in November, we'll all be pregnant with regret.

Knowledge is the best prevention for unwanted embarrassments.

How shall we educate the voters on this misleading initiative?



paul Sept. 4, 2008 @ 10:53 a.m.

In response to #9:

Don, are bad analogies still OK? Here is a good list for future use:

Includes some beauties, such as:

The plan was simple, like my brother-in-law Phil. But unlike Phil, this plan just might work.

He fell for her like his heart was a mob informant and she was the East River.

It came down the stairs looking very much like something no one had ever seen before.

"Oh, Jason, take me!" she panted, her breasts heaving like a college freshman on $1-a-beer night.


Anon92107 Sept. 4, 2008 @ 11:24 a.m.

Response to post #10:

Well, I guess as of today we shall have to wait until Nov. 4 to see if NORC is true or not, and the democrats had better damn well make sure it is not true or else

If NORC is true then future alien archeologists shall dig up and find the only thing we did that was truly worthwhile was our classical music.


Fred Williams Sept. 4, 2008 @ 11:45 a.m.

Speaking as a longtime alien archeologist, I would much prefer that we not dig up the remains of a stadium planted on the former site of the 10th Avenue Marine Terminal.


a2zresource Sept. 4, 2008 @ 11:58 a.m.

The thought of heaving freshmen brings back fond memories of daze in USD's comp sci major, where I minored in math and beer appreciation...

For publicity on thangs, I've been looking at something called OpenSocial.js that is used by so-called containers of member records and their friends, message, blogs, etc. on places such as myspace and meebo. Myspace would be considered a container, and OpenSocial provides the means of accessing a particular member for messaging or whatever as well as the member's friends who are also in that same container.

It is possible to construct a viral OpenSocial text display gizmo and host it for free somewhere like at, where it would construct and accumulate a friend network of interested online San Diegans with amusing profile pix...

The message ought to be pretty simple: "READ THE READER AND OBEY", "VOTE NO ON HOAX" or whatever suits the occassion...

Not much harder to install a youtube video object in the gizmo either... it's actually nothing more than some souped-up javascript on a webpage with a known URL... but in being souped up, a myspace member ought to be able to use it to pass a message to all of her or his online friends with a push of a programmed "inform/annoy eveybody" button...


Fred Williams Sept. 4, 2008 @ 12:02 p.m.

A2Z, let's talk about using technologies to involve and connect San Diegans of divergent views as well as those who already agree.

Your gizmo sounds cool. Got links?




a2zresource Sept. 4, 2008 @ 12:13 p.m.

For a myspace-specific extension...

I'm just starting to get into the documentation, but apparently a google-hosted gizmo (that's what they call 'em) is usable on all of the containers that are based on OpenSocial... myspace just happens to be the largest? I haven't put any time into looking how it might "talk" across DIFFERENT containers to combine records into one virtual container of friends, but that's just another distributed database problem across multiple DBs...


a2zresource Sept. 4, 2008 @ 12:19 p.m.

... oops... they're actually called gadgets...


paul Sept. 4, 2008 @ 12:22 p.m.

response to #16:

Come on, Fred. Do you only want to sift through boring sites where things are laid out with intelligent purpose? Where is the challenge in that? Now, if you found an arena over the water right next to where you knew heavy ships were unloading, then your imagination could run wild! Forget crop circles, you could have a field day with that non sequitur. For instance, maybe it was a giant holding pen where San Diegans were fattened up before they being shipped off for consumption? Most San Diegans act like lambs being led to slaughter anyway, so it is not too much of a stretch...


paul Sept. 4, 2008 @ 12:36 p.m.

BTW, why is no one talking about the most obvious location for a new stadium; the Miramar dump? It has so many advantages, with none of the drawbacks of the Tenth Avenue terminal. It has good freeway access, plenty of room, and would continue to have lots of productive activity on the 356 days a year that the Chargers wouldn't be there.

Stadiums are notoriously ugly, but that wouldn't be a problem at Miramar. Over the years the trash would build up and block the view of the ugly stadium with the more aesthetically pleasing sight of a pile of garbage. It would also be a useful analogy for future Charger teams, because we all know what is going to happen to the quality on the field as soon as Spanos gets his new stadium (Can you say "Padres"?). The engineering would be a breeze. As the stadium settles, you could ask the 10k to 20k fans that show up for the games to all sit in whichever section is highest, and the whole thing should level out. After 20 years or so (apparently the lifespan of a billion dollar stadium) the garbage will be up to the rim, and we can commence filling it in. Alternatively, Spanos can build condos.

It's a win-win for everybody!


Anon92107 Sept. 4, 2008 @ 12:45 p.m.

Response to post #16 Re "Speaking as a longtime alien archeologist":

Fred, imagine digging up the city dump and wondering why we buried so damned many plastic bags.

We really must perform at least one humane act to be remembered by, by filling plastic bags full of Don's columns and blogs to explain what really happened so they'll run for their lives and quarantine Earth in fear of the stupidity plague that might still be loose in the environment.


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 12:56 p.m.

Response to post #11: The three centers of white collar crime in the U.S. are South Florida, Las Vegas and Southern California. In terms of dollars, Wall Street tops everywhere in ongoing theft. (There is an old saying on Wall Street: "You only do business with those you know, and you still get cheated once in awhile. If you ever do business with those you don't know, you'll get cheated every time." In short, Wall Street is a sea of mendacity.) As far as corrupt local government goes, New York, Chicago, and the states of New Jersey, Arizona and Alaska are up there at the top. I'm sure I have left somebody out. My apologies to the bandits I have missed. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 12:58 p.m.

Response to post #12: Interestingly, some Republicans admitted that the offshore drilling touted by Palin et al will not provide much oil -- and none in the short term -- but it makes a good political chant. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 1:04 p.m.

Response to post #13: To continue your metaphors, I would say that someone is going to get screwed if this passes. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 1:11 p.m.

Response to post #14: I can't tell you how relieved I am not seeing any of my own analogies on that Washington Post list. I must say that I did enjoy the brother-in-law Phil and TV Guide metaphors. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 1:14 p.m.

Response to post #15: And classical music, tragically, appears to be in a slow death spiral. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 1:16 p.m.

Response to post #16: Yes, one has to wonder what future archeologists will think of our civilization when they discover a stadium perched on top of a port. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 1:19 p.m.

Response to post #17: Maybe the slogan for the election should be "Ax the Hoax." Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 1:23 p.m.

Response to post #18: There is nothing like a cool gizmo to warm the heart. (Will that make the Washington Post list?) Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 1:26 p.m.

Response to post #18: It's all geek to me. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 1:27 p.m.

Response to post #20: And I had just fallen in love with gizmo. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 1:30 p.m.

Response to post #21: Lambs to the slaughter or lambs to be fleeced first, then slaughtered? Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 1:33 p.m.

Response to post #22: Garbage in, garbage out. Players who flop could be publicly buried in the landfill. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 1:36 p.m.

Response to post #23: I fear too many of my columns wind up in landfills, or in the bottoms of bird cages, already. Best, Don Bauder


JohnnyVegas Sept. 4, 2008 @ 2:05 p.m.

My apologies to the bandits I have missed.

Boston MASS


JohnnyVegas Sept. 4, 2008 @ 2:11 p.m.

Outside the little snow-covered cabin, a large pile of firewood was stacked like Pamela Anderson.


anony_mous Sept. 4, 2008 @ 4:17 p.m.

Isn't kind of an unspoken rule that for a woman to be refered to as stacked, she must be displaying her own natural attributes ala Edie Williams? So I guess that would make Pam "restacked"???


paul Sept. 4, 2008 @ 4:56 p.m.

I've got cement logs in my fireplace, and as long as you aren't really going to touch them, they look pretty damn good.


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 7:01 p.m.

Response to post #37: Yeah, perhaps Boston deserves a mention. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 8:50 p.m.

Response to post #38: It can't be Shakespeare; Pamela Anderson wasn't alive during his lifetime. Faulkner? Hemingway? I'm not sure she was around for either of them, come to think of it. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 8:52 p.m.

Response to post #39: You young'uns got me again. Who is Edie Williams? Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2008 @ 8:53 p.m.

Response to post #40: I have cement boots on my feet, but I follow my mother's instructions: "Don't go near the water." Best, Don Bauder


Burwell Sept. 4, 2008 @ 9:18 p.m.

A rumor is circulating that NASA may purchase the property and build a second shuttle launch pad to replace the one at Cape Kennedy.


Burwell Sept. 4, 2008 @ 9:24 p.m.

Disney may also enter the fray and is considering using the site for a western-style theme park that pays homage to actor John Wayne.


Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2008 @ 7:04 a.m.

Response to post #48: Have you ever seen those pictures of NY City in the late 19th century? Wires everywhere. San Diego should be able to duplicate it in the early 21st century. Best, Don Bauder


a2zresource Sept. 5, 2008 @ 10:23 a.m.

I LIKE it... building a stadium over the Miramar dump. I bet there would be no need for an EIR... and the Marines can use it when the Chargers are on the road for mass "good training" in the stands...


paul Sept. 5, 2008 @ 10:25 a.m.

Maybe we can put a prop on the ballot to claim the airspace over city hall and put a deck over it (or perhaps just hermetically seal it?) and then build the new stadium on top of it. I don't see any reason why we couldn't then put a deck on top of the stadium to build condos, and then a deck over the condos to build a sports arena. If we really need a new city hall, it can go above the sports arena. It's what we call in computer science "a turtle problem".

To wit (the Stephen Hawkin version of a much older story):

A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise."

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?"

"You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down."


Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2008 @ 11:31 a.m.

Response to post #53: Remember, according to the NFL and all pro sports leagues, stadiums lead to commercial development all around. So let's put some hotels and department stores at the dump. Best, Don Bauder


Anon92107 Sept. 5, 2008 @ 11:59 a.m.

Response to post #52:

Yes, I've seen those where people can lean out the tenement windows and electrocute themselves. Saw that in San Francisco in the 60s as a matter of fact, just had to lean out further because the CPUC required enough distance away from the window where they hoped you would fall out of the window first.

Gordo cartoons were even better, especially since our streets are returning to looking like they did in the days of the wagon trails.

Isn’t it great to be alive after the end of the Golden Age now that we have no honorable, moral and ethical leaders anymore, no one accepts responsibility and the courts immunize their corrupt buddies from accountability so ever more lives are at risk to firestorms every year now that droughts are becoming the normal weather condition.

If you think Hoaxes are bad today, just wait to see the corruption multiply if corrupt establishment Judge Goldsmith is elected to replace Aguirre. Your blogs will multiply so that you have to expose the corrupt and incompetent 24/7/365 and still not keep up.


Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2008 @ 5:47 p.m.

Response to post #57: Goldsmith will be a re-run of Casey Gwinn. There will be no one to challenge establishment thievery. Best, Don Bauder


JohnnyVegas Sept. 5, 2008 @ 7:27 p.m.

Casey Gwinn is the prototypical government welfare queen. That guy has never held a job, on his own, outside of government.

He was an awful CA. He did not stand up for the overall community, and thereby allowed the few, the rich or connected few, run rough shod over everyone else.


Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2008 @ 9:30 p.m.

Response to post #59: I agree 100 percent. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 6, 2008 @ 10:25 p.m.

Response to post #67: I had almost forgotten that Bush Line. I guess I was thinking about the Dubya Bush Line. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 6, 2008 @ 11:12 a.m.

Response to post #61: Read the Wall Street Journal's third editorial this morning (Sat., Sept. 6). It lauds Aguirre for standing up to the unions. I posted an item on the blog. Is NORGAS your acronym or is it in wide circulation? Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 6, 2008 @ 10:30 p.m.

Response to post #69: Fumber, are you certain that Anon92107 is a female? Best, Don Bauder


Russ Lewis Sept. 6, 2008 @ 11:42 a.m.

Anon, how about using acronyms that already exist that people understand rather than making up new ones and trying to get them to catch on?


Anon92107 Sept. 6, 2008 @ 11:43 a.m.

Response to post #62:

I thought up NORGAS because I appear to have overused NORC and I really do try to inject new ways to think about things even though the theme of corruption never changes because there is so much of it.


Anon92107 Sept. 6, 2008 @ 3:09 a.m.

Response to post #58

What we really need first and foremost is a Fight Back For The People of San Diego Establishment with enough power to at least bring government and business executives who are directly responsible for hellacious deaths and destruction in the Firestorms to justice, like Sanders and Felsinger.

If a corrupt establishment judge like Goldsmith becomes CA then it will prove once again that we still have a NORGAS (No One Really Gives A S***) electorate.

And if we don’t start holding the most criminally negligent among us accountable then public safety will continue to fail the people of San Diego until we become a third world gangland and we will have no one to blame but ourselves.


Don Bauder Sept. 6, 2008 @ 1:51 p.m.

Response to post #63: I am still trying to figure out the old acronyms like LOL and young pups like Anon92107 keep throwing new ones at me. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 6, 2008 @ 1:55 p.m.

Response to post #64: "Neither whizzing bullets NOR GAS can keep these brave troops from fighting fiercely from their foxholes...." Best, Don Bauder


paul Sept. 6, 2008 @ 6:02 p.m.


No need to make up NORGAS in San Diego. Thanks to the good folks at the Wild Animal Park, we already have had WGASA for almost 35 years, from the (now defunct) Wgasa Bush Line. Just replace "no one really" with "who", and add "anyways" to the end.


Don Bauder Sept. 6, 2008 @ 10:27 p.m.

Response to post #68: Ah, poetry. Here's another: "If we build it we're dumber than our poster child fumber." Best, Don Bauder


Anon92107 Sept. 7, 2008 @ 4:18 a.m.

Response to post #66:

Great battle cry Don, how about publishing it in a banner on the next Reader cover to rally the troops to save ourselves?


Don Bauder Sept. 7, 2008 @ 7:35 a.m.

Response to post #73: That's one way to get on the cover. Best, Don Bauder


Don Bauder Sept. 7, 2008 @ 12:42 p.m.

Response to post #75: What's so funny, fumber? Best, Don Bauder


JohnnyVegas Sept. 9, 2008 @ 5:26 p.m.

What's so funny, fumber?

Fumbler was looking in the mirror.


Don Bauder Sept. 9, 2008 @ 9:18 p.m.

Response to post #77: Riposte! Best, Don Bauder


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