"When you pray do not be like the hypocrites! They love to stand up and pray in the houses of worship and on the streetcorners, so that everyone will see them. I assure you, they have been paid in full.

"But when you pray, go to your room, close the door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what you do in private, will reward you!" --From the Gospel of Matthew 6:5-6 (RSV)

Well, well, look who dared show their mugs in public? The Pride of Wichita, Kansas--The Hillsboro Baptist Church, aka: "Bash those we don't like in the Name of Jesus!" Right now, they are on a San Diego swing, calling President Obama "The Antichrist." Oh, they are also going after Jews and Gays as well.

Yeesh! First, they picket the funerals of AIDS victims, be they gay or straight. Then they spread their "message" to the funerals of fallen service members, claiming that the deaths of our service members, be it in combat or not, was "God's Judgement" for tolerating homosexuality.

And now, this?

Frankly, "Reverend" Fred and his followers may draw crowds of onlookers (mostly holding their own signs condemning the "Haters For Jesus" across the street from them)...but the publicity over the whole hoo-hah has given the Hillsboro Baptist Church the publicity they sought for their cause.

Add to that kettle of aroused Western Diamondbacks this little gem. Some pastor--on Halloween, yet--is going to be holding a book-burning outside of his church. Guess what's going in the pyre?

The Holy Bible!

One one version of the Good Book--The Traditional King James Version--will be spared the flames. All others--plus contemporary Christian literature--get turned into ash and cinders as "Satanic." The preacher basicly said he wanted to "light a fire under the congregation" by this action.

Freedom of Religion is the first freedom ensured under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. This is why America has become a "Supermarket of Salvation," if you would. There is no "one faith" here that all must follow, back by governmental funding and support.

Tom Jefferson and James Madison saw what was going on under THAT system, which was the policy for most European nations. It did not impress them...and so the Freedom to Worship as we see fit (without government interference) was made a right--one of many, certainly.

Activities such as by the Hillsboro Baptist "Away Team" and that Bible-burning chicken-fried snake may be allowed under the "Establishment Cause" (as well as under Freedom of Speech). However, they-and-their-messages are not protected from being rebuked in the press, nor by their fellow Americans, as nothing more than bigotry in Biblical clothing.

If you must hate? Do not drag God, Jesus, or The Holy Bible into your morass-filled swamp. The damage you do to Christianity by your actions not only show your ignorance. You also destroy the credibility of your position...and your cause...by such so-called "justification ."

For you will not be seen as worthy of being followed--but as buffoons worthy of only scorn and ridicule!

And, that, I feel, is their just reward...paid in full!

--RKJ

Comments

CuddleFish Oct. 17, 2009 @ 12:20 p.m.

Speak it, Brother RobbieBear!!!

Let the hating begin!!! :)

0

nan shartel Oct. 17, 2009 @ 12:32 p.m.

hi robbiebear

those ppl aren't Christians and they r using Christ's name in vain..great blog guy

0

PistolPete Oct. 17, 2009 @ 1:01 p.m.

All the media and counter-protesters are doing is feeding the flames of hatred. If people ignored these guys they would eventually go away and not come back.

0

CuddleFish Oct. 17, 2009 @ 1:07 p.m.

No you won't. You haters insist on being a part of our lives.

0

PistolPete Oct. 17, 2009 @ 1:14 p.m.

Last time I checked CuddleFish,I wasn't a part of the WBC or any other hate group. Hate will never go away. That's reality and unfortunetely a part of life. You deal with it and go on. If these counter protesters really wanted to do something to stop hate instead of getting their 15 minutes of fame,they'd educate and inform. I thought it was pretty ironic that illegal aliens were there protesting and telling american citizens to get out of their country. I don't subscribe to the hate that the morons of WBC preach but I will defend their right to say it. If want them to go away,do something constructive instead of giving them the attention they seek.

0

CuddleFish Oct. 17, 2009 @ 1:55 p.m.

The sad part is, some of us try to help haters.

We try. And then, we ignore. But I continue to pray for them.

I will pray for you, Pete.

0

PistolPete Oct. 17, 2009 @ 2:03 p.m.

LMAO! I see you've been hanging out with SDaniels and Anitgeekess for far too long. Do you have a mind of your own or do you just follow the opinions of others? I have done nothing or said nothing to personally offend you,yet you sound just like the two of them. Almost sad. You go on believing that I'm some monster,Fish. If I were a praying man,I'd be the one praying for you. And the f***ed up part of all this? We were all getting along until they couldn't accept an opinion that didn't conform with their warped views of the world.

0

SDaniels Oct. 17, 2009 @ 3:26 p.m.

Pete, don't drag the disagreement about free speech into it--I was simply angry because you acted like an ass and dismissed my illness as some kind of media hysteria--perhaps one day you'll admit you handled that badly, and perhaps not--I'm not holding my breath, sir. You are understandably sort of limited as a friend, and I accept that. I don't want to continue to fight with you, and do not mean to start up some kind of war. Let's let it go and mind our own, eh?

0

CuddleFish Oct. 17, 2009 @ 3:28 p.m.

Better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

Sure hope I got that right! :)

0

SDaniels Oct. 17, 2009 @ 3:54 p.m.

As for LPR's blog: I appreciate that you wrote this, Robbie. I admit that sometimes my view of Christianity has been colored by these fringe groups, manifesting on sidewalks in hate. It is important not to lump all groups together; I know that many religious organizations do quite a bit of valuable charity work, for example. I doubt the crazed anti-abortionist fringe does much charity work, when not showing graphic pictures of mangled bodies, or murdering clinic doctors...

0

SDaniels Oct. 17, 2009 @ 3:55 p.m.

re: #10: Sounds right to me, fishbabe :)

0

nan shartel Oct. 17, 2009 @ 5 p.m.

shun them i say...the problem is they do affect and manipulate and even convince others with their hatred ideas

and that's the bad part

0

CuddleFish Oct. 17, 2009 @ 5:08 p.m.

Yes, nan. Hatred is so easily spread.

Shunning keeps you out of their negative energy.

0

SDaniels Oct. 17, 2009 @ 6:16 p.m.

I say do what you can, if you have the energy and feel yo are not going to be brought down by it. I've learned a bit from our patient refried about giving folk a chance, and when all is said and done don't regret it when I have spread a little of the love. :)

0

Russ Lewis Oct. 18, 2009 @ 1:40 a.m.

"All the media and counter-protesters are doing is feeding the flames of hatred." Agreed, Pete. And yet I went down to San Diego High School on Friday to be a part of the counterdemonstration. (Actually, I acted as a "peace monitor." The opposing sides were on opposite sides of a busy four-lane street, each prohibited from crossing, so there was very little trouble to start with, and it must be said that the police did a great job of keeping the peace and protecting the free-speech rights of all. To them, many thanks.)

My own preference too would have been to ignore the WBC and let them arrive to deafening silence and indifference, but since others had already made the decision to mount a massive opposition, I wasn't going to be able to change everyone else's plans, so I figured better to add one more body to our counterdemonstration.

(By the way, RKJ, it's Westboro, not Hillsboro, unless that was a joke or an intentional slur against Kansas.)

Turns out only six people from the WBC showed up: three adults and three kids. Heck, they were outnumbered by the press. It didn't take all 400-500 of us to greet them, but I guess it was the right decision to counterprotest; this way, the WBC and our side got publicity out of it instead of just the WBC.

Pete adds, "If these counter protesters really wanted to do something to stop hate instead of getting their 15 minutes of fame,they'd educate and inform." I'm not sure how, Pete, other than teaching by example. And something tells me that doesn't go too far.

0

SDaniels Oct. 18, 2009 @ 2:11 a.m.

Just wanted to extend some kudos to you, russl, for taking the time to demonstrate. Admittedly, I haven't done any for quite a while, though I did have something to do with initial plans for an organized protest or two at UCSD, including one against Newt Gingrich as the speaker for my graduation ceremony (ick). As for the issue of 15 minutes of fame, I find that to be a cynical, limited, and not very useful view of what counter-protesting or protesting is all about. Of course media attention is by definition essential to the goal of any kind of protest that comes to mind, but the issues are paramount, and of passionate interest--or organizers and core participants would not bother, would they?

0

SDaniels Oct. 18, 2009 @ 2:16 a.m.

PS: Forgot to add that education was the goal of 99.9% of demonstration activity I participated in or witnessed at UCSD or NYU. Of course you will always have a few looky-loos and hangers-on who don't really know why they are there, and just like the excitement or energy of the group, but this is just a side product of a useful, productive demonstration. With PACs and student organizations, education is THE key activity, not protest, and is articulated more often in other kinds of exercises, such as fundraising, and informal or formal discussion/presentation sessions, often with speakers engaged for the occasion.

0

PistolPete Oct. 18, 2009 @ 11 a.m.

I'd like to take some time out of my busy schedule of watching Green Bay lay the wood to Detroit,New Orleans knockin' the crap out of New York and Minnesota wasting Baltimore to clarify my stance on protesting/counter protesting.

I'm NOT anti-protest. Protesting against causes you believe in is not only human nature but it's American. The 60's were a firestorm of controversy and the kids of that generation took to the streets to protest government decisions.

My problem is with counter protesters. The WBC were the protesters. Anyone opposed to their ideas were counter protesters. My point being,what was the old saying about silence being louder than any shouted word? It would've spoke volumes if those three adults and three kids drove all the way here to protest and EVERYONE(including the media)ignored them. THEY would've looked like the morons. Instead of ignoring them,EVERYONE there looked liked morons.

In a way,it's almost hypocritical of me to even be talking about this because I could be seen as a counter protester of sorts in the"debate"with SD,AG and CF about hatespeech. I may even have lost a few friends in the process.

In essence,what I'm trying to say is in my eyes,it's ok to protest something you believe in. To counter protest a group as irrelevant as the WBC just seems like a waste of an opportunity to show them that you won't stand for their hatred.

0

Russ Lewis Oct. 18, 2009 @ 12:02 p.m.

(#19) One problem though, Pete, is that nobody knew that only six protesters were arriving; I'm sure even the police would have arranged things differently if they'd known that. As it was, people were anticipating dozens and dozens, maybe hundreds of loud, obnoxious protesters hurling hateful anti-gay invective at emotionally scarred teenagers, and that hits too close to home for me to have sat it out; turns out "obnoxious" was the only part we got right. In retrospect, they would have made no stir whatsoever had there been no counterprotesters.

However, as I said, the decision to counterprotest had already been made without my input, so my decision was "Okay, now what? Join or not join?" And the press was right to cover them. The WBC's arrival WAS news, and it would have been wrong for the press not to cover them. It was therefore a given that the WBC would be on the news; the question was whether we wanted publicity too or whether we wanted only them to have it. Someone evidently opted for the former. And you may think we looked like idiots; fine. Some of us did. But I suspect the counterprotesters won more hearts by being there than not just based on my impression that the teenagers enjoyed all the noise and commotion. (See the video at www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=11330...

Otherwise, as I said, agreed, Pete. I would have liked it if people had listened to my advice; they never do though. Their loss.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled sports orgy.

0

PistolPete Oct. 18, 2009 @ 3:40 p.m.

I knew that there weren't going to be hundreds protesting. Why is it that I'm one of a few in this area that refuse to protest these pricks? Maybe because I'm smarter than the average bear and tend to think with my head instead of my heart? The WBC protesters aren't known for bringing hundreds. I don't fault people for thinking with their hearts. However,those that think with theirs hearts instead of there heads are the ones I pity. Do some research before you rush to confront those type of groups. Go to YT. Here....I'll even help ya with the first couple of videos....Watch and take notes....

Westboro Baptist Church http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZfZiB... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFMdQT... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHQjY0... Where are the hundreds of protesters?

Arayan Nation/Nazis/Klan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thUvAD5QhfA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kB1dX... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpMMi3O0sLs

0

SDaniels Oct. 18, 2009 @ 3:47 p.m.

Clearly, someone who has never in his life been involved in a social organization, and who has always preferred to jeer and criticize others' efforts from the sidelines--we now return to our regularly scheduled sports orgy...

0

PistolPete Oct. 18, 2009 @ 4:04 p.m.

Clearly someone who doesn't know me yet tries her hardest to pin a label that couldn't be more wrong.

Look at the situation from a smart perspective:The protesters aren't going to convert the counter-protesters and the counter-protesters aren't going to convert the protesters. It's a Mexican stand-off between love and hate. Yet there's a clear winner between the two:The WBC. Why you ask? Simple I say. By giving them attention,you fuel their hate. They eat it up and feed off of it. Everytime the WBC protests and counter-protesters come to confront them,it's game,set & match point EVERY TIME!

The smartest thing for the counter-protesters to do every time a group like the WBC comes to their neck of the woods is to KNOW THEIR ENEMY! It's the most basic priciple of war. Know your enemy. Hold them closer than you do your friends. By knowing when to protest,or as in this case,when to counter-protest you show your enemy that you're smarter. I'm certainly not going to say that if nobody had gone to counter-protest that the WBC would've tucked their tail between their legs and gone home but it would've sent a VERY powerful message:YOU'RE NOT WANTED IN SAN DIEGO AND NOBODY GIVES A S*** ABOUT YOU!

0

SDaniels Oct. 18, 2009 @ 4:17 p.m.

"Clearly someone who doesn't know me yet tries her hardest to pin a label that couldn't be more wrong."

Pete, at least I am in the ballpark with you. It is highly doubtful that you have done any activist organizing or volunteering--and have zilch respect for those who have. Correct me if I am wrong. By the way, you have called me a street whore, a masculine lesbian, and a lonely, man-less spinster. Pop flies in all directions.

AS for the BWC, perhaps. Maybe you should outline your strategies and try to organize and implement them, instead of just shouting about it on the Reader--again, on the sidelines of the sidelines.

0

PistolPete Oct. 18, 2009 @ 4:29 p.m.

You're correct. I HAVE called you those names and I've apologized for that. I was wrong in that respect. As for my work in the community,I have worked suicide hotlines,I've worked in church meal lines,I've volunteered to call Bingo at the Poway Senior Center only be told that I probably wouldn't pass a background check because of my armed robbery and I worked the phone banks just before election day last year on behalf of the Vote No On 8 campaign.

As for implementing my strategies,why should I? It's common sense. I think most counter-protesters have that American Idol mentality that they'll get their 15 minutes of fame. You draw more flies with honey,right? My viewpoint is honey. Yours and anyone else who tries to tell me I'm wrong is vinegar. Ignore them and they will go away. It's human nature. By counter-proesting,you prove that it's a win-lose situation. Win for WBC. Lose for anyone who counter-protests. Ignore them and it's the exact opposite.

0

SDaniels Oct. 18, 2009 @ 4:54 p.m.

"I HAVE called you those names and I've apologized for that."

Where might that be? As I recall, the "street whore" and "lesbian" epithets were so filthy that admin removed them. I have not seen any kind of apology anywhere, and I'm not sure how much an apology from you is worth, since you continue to indulge your immediate impulses, then may or may not later make a half-assed broom swipe at the messes left behind.

"As for my work in the community,I have worked suicide hotlines,I've worked in church meal lines,I've volunteered to call Bingo at the Poway Senior Center only be told that I probably wouldn't pass a background check because of my armed robbery and I worked the phone banks just before election day last year on behalf of the Vote No On 8 campaign."

Good for you, then, and I totally forgot about your work with the suicide hotline. I'm sorry they didn't enlist you for Prop 8--they needed all the help they could get.

"I think most counter-protesters have that American Idol mentality that they'll get their 15 minutes of fame."

However, the particular kind of work you've done doesn't exactly qualify this opinion as accurate, and suggesting that everyone sit on their hands and ignore hate propagandists often is not the right strategy--why would you suggest this across the board?

0

Robert Johnston Oct. 18, 2009 @ 6:27 p.m.

Okaaaay, time for me to weigh in!

1) russel, thanks for the clarification. And no, I haven't a bias against The Sunflower State or it's citizens. After all, Wichita helped build Boeing B-17's during World War II, plus one of my favorite bands (Collective Soul) is from out that way.

2) Folks, I love the give-and-take a lot...but sometimes, it gets to the point where I'm afraid to check the "comments" page. I often wonder if this is The Reader I'm reading...or a literary version of a "Level II" Nuclear Exchange?

3) Hatered may be a popular emotion, but it's one that also poisons so easily. Many folks will--with a great big smile on their face--purposely swallow each dose and say "Yum-Yum!" afterwards!

our society may never learn to deal properly with hate. However, one should take into account the final two lines of the folk song "These Cities Are Burning Now" before declaring such a state normal:

"To the rest of the world, here is my theses--Peace To The World...or The world In Peices!"

--RKJ

0

SDaniels Oct. 18, 2009 @ 6:36 p.m.

Hey, Robbie, sorry to play out differences on your blog, but you know you brought up a controversial issue, and disagreement is par for the course--'nuclear warfare' is a bit hyperbolic as analogy, no? I hope you can consider that my comments are hate-free; I think I show quite a bit of restraint when dealing with someone who has hurled the most vile of epithets against me just for the heck of it, and a fair amount of hate speech at others in general. I would not mind if people worked out their differences on my blog comment section, because it shows that people are working it out with words, not physical violence, right? And surely, there are a few nuggets of useful info here and there, amongst the more unfortunate content? ;)

0

Russ Lewis Oct. 18, 2009 @ 6:44 p.m.

(#21) "Why is it that I'm one of a few in this area that refuse to protest these pricks?" Actually, Pete, you'll be glad to know that the vast majority of San Diego County (some 99.999%) stayed home too. You can argue endlessly over which approach was the better one to take (confrontation or indifference), and you folks can hash it out all you want.

Too bad you weren't The Decider here, Pete; I woulda preferred your approach. I personally didn't want any 15 minutes or 15 seconds of fame; I'm s***-ugly and didn't want to be on camera.

Thanks for pitching in at the No on 8 headquarters.

0

SDaniels Oct. 18, 2009 @ 7:07 p.m.

Ahhh, russl, I'm sure I'd like your face as well as I like your writing :) But do you really believe passive ignorance is the way to go with all issues? Or just this one, in retrospect?

0

PistolPete Oct. 18, 2009 @ 7:07 p.m.

To SD-How come I always want to punch a child in the forehead when debating with you? What part of YOU ARE FEEDING THE HATE OF THESE PEOPLE BY GIVING THEM ATTENTION don't you understand?

To LPR-As much as I respect your blogs,I won't give up in what I believe. That's half this country's problem. Giving up on what they believe in and I refuse to bow. If I'm wrong,I'll gladly admit it but I don't feel I'm wrong on this. I NEVER said to sit on your hands. I just simply said"Ignore them. Educate. Inform. Love one another. Just DON'T feed the hate."

Russl-I should've clarified myself. Never in 33 years of being alive on this orb called Earth have I seen so many people with so much time on their hands to protest the most unbelievably useless s***. Nazis comin' to town? Let's counter-protest! Illegal aliens demanding their rights? Let's counter-protest! Gays want right? Let's counter-protest! California's overspent their budget and needs to get rid of some dead weight with teachers who don't teach? Let's counter-protest! California is like the retarded cousin of the entire decade of the 1960s. You mean well but you're not going about it the right way.

0

PistolPete Oct. 18, 2009 @ 7:11 p.m.

I tell you what guys....if anything ya'll have re-sparked a political flame inside me that went out years ago.

0

SDaniels Oct. 18, 2009 @ 7:14 p.m.

"How come I always want to punch a child in the forehead when debating with you?"

Wow, I don't know, Pete. But you should probably bring that one up with the shrink.

"You mean well but you're not going about it the right way."

Well, it's a good thing we in San Diego have you to help us out with constructive and reasonable advice.

0

Russ Lewis Oct. 18, 2009 @ 7:25 p.m.

(#31) "Do you really believe passive ignorance is the way to go with all issues? Or just this one, in retrospect?" With some issues, yes; this one, for example. Pete's right that protesting a porno shop, let's say, only gives your opposition publicity. I do think some good came out of this though; it sends the message, "You're not winning any hearts here, folks." But protesting is a sword that cuts both ways, and so I feel very conflicted about this sort of approach.

0

SDaniels Oct. 18, 2009 @ 7:30 p.m.

re: #35 and 36:

Captain Picard says:

ENGAGE!

:)

0

antigeekess Oct. 18, 2009 @ 7:35 p.m.

Re #35:

LOL. I like that one a LOT! (Don't agree with its usage, just dig the image.) :)

But don't be surprised if you get it back. One good facepalm deserves another.

Don't let me disturb you kids. Please, carry on dunking each others' heads in the toilet, and calling each other "Dookeyhead."

;)

0

PistolPete Oct. 18, 2009 @ 7:40 p.m.

Touche! :-D By telling you that I feel like punching someone when debating you is my way of giving you a compliment. Sometimes,SD,I think your intelligence gets in the way of common sense. You're a formidable opponent and no matter whether or not we get along and play nice,I'll always respect you for that.

In my eyes,counter-protesting and creating a Mexican standoff is the lazy man's way out. Russl gave a great example by mentioning the porn shop. Porn shops are LEGAL places. I've been in many and I've gotten into it with protesters of those types of businesses. It makes no sense for a group to give advertising to a place they obviously don't like. They take the lazy way out instead of sitting down their children and explaining why that type of place is not only legal but why they shouldn't go in. I have no problem with parent's being parents even if I don't agree with that. That's responsible maturity. Not everyone is going to agree with me but at least they're educating and informing their children of the"evils" of those places instead of giving out what is essentially free advertising for a place they obviously don't like.

0

PistolPete Oct. 18, 2009 @ 7:42 p.m.

LOL AG. You guys are REALLY making it hard to"hate"you.

0

SDaniels Oct. 18, 2009 @ 8:18 p.m.

"Sometimes,SD,I think your intelligence gets in the way of common sense."

C'mon, that's a facile statement. How am I not commonsensical?

0

SDaniels Oct. 18, 2009 @ 8:25 p.m.

"It makes no sense for a group to give advertising to a place they obviously don't like. They take the lazy way out instead of sitting down their children and explaining why that type of place is not only legal but why they shouldn't go in."

Now, you are making some good points, and I'll make another pretty obvious one. The "Disney-ization" and infantilization of our society has got to stop; some portion of our social makeup must remain adult, in every sense--as do many of us 'non-breeders,' as we are sometimes called. "Family values" is such a pervasive virus, used to instill hatred and misunderstanding from intolerance of sexual orientation and lifestyle to what we can watch on television...

0

PistolPete Oct. 18, 2009 @ 8:51 p.m.

I said sometimes. As in you asking why I feel the need to punch anyone while debating you. I thought it was pretty obvious what I was getting at but I digress. In no way am I calling you stupid for missing that either. In fact,I've even done it few times myself. It wasn't so much as I was making fun of you as I was telling you have a proverbial booger on your nose. I will also agree with you whole-heartedly on the infantilization of America. I too am sick of everyone getting their collective panties in an uproar over anything even remotely construed to be anti-family.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rIPe5akN48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxmE2qMbYRU

0

antigeekess Oct. 18, 2009 @ 11:49 p.m.

Geez, I loved George Carlin. He played a small auditorium up here many times, and in fact his last HBO special was filmed there.

Damn, how I wish I'd skipped class and gone.

Wish he was still here. :(

0

SDaniels Oct. 19, 2009 @ 12:10 a.m.

proverbial booger on my nose? Huh?

I didn't think I missed anything Pete--except how the child-punching was meant to be a compliment.

My response in #37 was not a question, it was an answer to your statement, which was in question form:

"Wow, I don't know, Pete. But you should probably bring that one up with the shrink."

Are you confusing your feelings of wanting to punch childrens' noses with my perceived lack of common sense, perhaps?

"In fact,I've even done it few times myself. It wasn't so much as I was making fun of you as I was telling you have a proverbial booger on your nose."

What is "it" here? This is where me no comprende.

0

PistolPete Oct. 19, 2009 @ 1:56 a.m.

Never mind. I give up. Has anyone ever told you that you overthink things WAAAAAAAAAAY too much?

0

SDaniels Oct. 19, 2009 @ 1:59 a.m.

No overthinking was accomplished. I figured you would sort out for me what you meant. And no, people I know do not tend to tell me that I overthink things. Thinking folk don't think you are. :)

0

Russ Lewis Oct. 19, 2009 @ 9:51 a.m.

How prescient the name of this entry turned out to be.

0

Sign in to comment

Join our
newsletter list

Enter to win $25 at Broken Yolk Cafe

Each newsletter subscription
means another chance to win!

Close