News, the First: fell off of bike today while doing twenty-mile ride and smashed up elbow. Pain intense, but isolated.

News, the Second: wrote partial blog entry Tuesday afternoon, left said blog entry in browser without saving, returned home from bicycle ride to find browser closed by unwitting roommate and blog destroyed. Not his fault, I should have saved my work.

In light of News, the Second, I will attempt a Blog Redux, with minor modifications to standard format in keeping with Timeliness and Reasonableness.

News, the Third: multiple posts share daily Best-Of No-Prize!

Thomas Kinkade Paintings - $2450 (Poway)

Thomas Kinkade painting - $350 (Escondido)

Thomas Kinkade like you’ve not often seen - $180 (poway)

Thomas Kinkade Canvas - $2500

CHRISTMAS GIFT???? Thomas Kinkades (moving, must sell) (San Marcos)

I think you should get the picture (ha!) by this point, yes? Also, before naysayers (always saying nay) point out that none of these paintings are for sale in my 'hood, I should remind you of the Flagrantly Breaking the Rules Rule from Blog Post Number One which states that I (as the maker of the Rules) am permitted to Flagrantly Break Said Rules when and if I deem it necessary for the Purposes of Art.

Rule breaking aside, I should probably point out right at the beginning of this that I am not just looking to hate on the Painter of Light (here's the Wiki on the guy, for those not familiar with the phrase or the man). Don't get me wrong though, I think his work is revolting and the day that you see a Kinkade on my wall is the day that...well..."days" probably won't have much meaning by that point, after the apocalypse and whatnot. But, really, not the point here. Thomas Kinkade is a totally fascinating phenomenon. Much like the oft-maligned and poorly understood Bob Ross, Kinkade's paintings are the subject of massive volumes of vitriolic derision--yours truly not withstanding. For many, he is the epitome of the hack, elevator music for the eyes, throwaway art hardly worthy of inclusion in the definition. Yet, for others, he is the American painter par excellence, the man who is able to capture something on oil and canvas that huge numbers of people want desperately to hang on their walls. Kinkade's massive revenues, if nothing else, indicate I speak the truth.

This dichotomy is probably due to the fact that, in the long run, the cosmos is utterly indifferent towards Thomas Kinkade. Look at the blunderbuss pricing strategies employed by the people selling Kinkade paintings as listed above. Are his paintings worth thousands? Hundreds? Best Reasonable Offers? Nobody seems to actually have a real, benchmark value established for a Thomas Kinkade painting. This makes sense if what I say is true and his paintings do, in fact, sit somewhere outside the normal realms of economics and aesthetics. Perhaps Thomas Kinkade is an exception to the conventions of art as we know it.

If what I've just said holds any water, then phenomenologically speaking, Kinkade is a serious point of interest. Adoration and hatred are two very strong reactions, idiomatically opposed to one another, and allowing little middle ground between them. The split is, to say the least, dramatic. Chuck Klosterman says that it's way better for a musician to be loved or hated, just not ignored. The thought being that eliciting any response from an audience is better than no response. Sort of the PR version of "it's better to burn out than it is to fade." If this principle holds true for Kinkade, then he experiences almost worldwide success in the sense intended by Klosterman.

Let's try something. Look at this:

It either makes you want to curl up by the fire with a hot chocolate or, if you're Joan Didion, the picture is "rendered in slightly surreal pastel" and with "such insistent coziness as to seem actually sinister, suggestive of a trap designed to attract Hansel and Gretel. Every window was lit, to lurid effect, as if the interior of the structure might be on fire." (Yup, I sure did bite that from the Wiki!)

Is Didion just the biggest Nelly Negs of the year? Probably not, as she is a canonical American essayist--admittedly known for being dismal--and something of an authority on pop cultural criticism, we can hardly write her off. There is definitely something repugnant to many viewers in Kinkaid paintings, yet the popular appeal of "The Painter of Light" just can't be denied.

In some respects, it's easy to see how Kinkaid makes an appeal to deeply rooted sentimentalities, painting idyllic scenes and championing a decidedly ideological worldview more than lightly inflected with his self-admitted Christian leanings. For a lot of people, Kinkaid creates the perfect world; a world in which people would believe, or even do believe if sufficient powers of self-deception are at work. This sort of hyper-realized painting has it's place in fiction as much as material life, if not more so, as eptiomize by the person of Dan Gregory in Vonnegut's Bluebeard. The phrase, "nobody painted [subjects] like Dan Gregory!" appears over and over in the book to reinforce the notion that Gregory's paintings were super-saturated with more "reality" than the "real" world could every contain. It seems, sometimes, that there is something of that aspect in Kinkade paintings, with the excessive luminosity and the overly saturated colors contributing to a sense of "realness" and tangibility that the material world seldom equals. In some respects, the effect of a Kinkade painting is not unlike a super-long-exposure photograph in that more visual data is included in one frame than the human eye--which may or may not be stuck at 32 frames per second--usually sees in one instant. To many people, this effect must be irresistible when it offers them more of the world than they could ever hope to see.

Whatever it is about Thomas Kinkade that generates such a visceral response--of joy or disgust--in viewers, it's a fascinating and largely singular occurrence in twenty-first-century America. Who else fills that particular niche as simultaneously the object of mass-revulsion and wide-spread adoration?

More like this:

Comments

Adam92102 Nov. 18, 2009 @ 5:27 p.m.

Whenever I see his "work," I get a strong desire to have some Sleepy Time tea. You know the box, the one with a bear in pajamas with a cat on its lap in front of fire. If I have no Sleepy Time tea around while looking at Kinkade, I tend to find myself preferring eye gouging with a rusty spoon. The guy's stuff puts me to sleep and just has no substance to it.

Am I some kind of art connoisseur? Not by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, I think most art is either crap or just something for the art-hags to churn over while they sip cheap wine and say things like, "Ah, yes" and "If I do say so myself...." That's not to say that I don't like art because there are some things out there that are fantastic and thought provoking pieces. But here's my big issue with art....

About 5 or so years ago I was at the Smithsonian Art Museum in Washington D.C. and came across a canvas painted in white. No pictures, objects, not even a splatter of paint a la Pollack. Just plain white. The "security guard" came over and decided to give me a lesson on the piece (of crap) I was looking at. He had me move to the side of the painting and take in the textures and layers of paint on the canvas and how the light hit certain parts revealing different shades of the same color. I was with an ex-girlfriend and my mother and they lapped it up, loving every second of it. I didn't get it. I mean, it's white paint on a canvas and globbed on heavier in some parts more than others. How is that even art? My three nieces, all under the age of seven, can do the same thing if not better but you don't see their "art" hanging in a major museum. No, it's on my brother's fridge in his house. The "Study of White" I was looking at didn't even deserve to be on the wall of a walk-in freezer where I work. Hell, the veggies would be too colorful for it.

While I appreciate art, I appreciate good art, art that grabs you immediately and shakes some sense into you. If I wanted to look at nothing on a canvas, I'd stare at a blank wall. This is why art and the art world confuses me. Admittedly, most of what I don't like is modern art because there are some fantastic painters "back in day." But art these days, much like contemporary classical music, is just stroking an ego that needs to be knocked down a peg or two due to its lack of substance, Kinkade included.

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CuddleFish Nov. 18, 2009 @ 5:52 p.m.

A lady on another forum had bought a house and furnished it and was looking to buy a Thomas Kinkade for the space behind her sofa. I believe she said I was jealous when I said her taste in husbands, houses, furniture, and art were remarkably similar.

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MsGrant Nov. 18, 2009 @ 7:02 p.m.

Booooring...Kinkade, that is. For folks who collect snow globes.

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SDaniels Nov. 18, 2009 @ 8:06 p.m.

It was only a matter of time before we sunk to "The Painter of Light."

People, we need to stop a moment and savor hitting a new low with our craigslist queries-- a crowd-pleasing, backlit low. :)

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MsGrant Nov. 18, 2009 @ 8:21 p.m.

A moment of silence.....then a collective gasp at the craptacularness of THE PRECIOUS MOMENT FIGURINES!! I must now retire to the couch with my mug of Sleepy Time, enveloped in my Snuggie, to peruse the QVC for additions to my elf collection, while I admire my walls covered in Kincade prints that will bring about the altered state of conscience that my religion will not allow me to reach with the good stuff.

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MsGrant Nov. 18, 2009 @ 8:24 p.m.

Sorry, Kinkade, I am full of typos tonight.

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FullFlavorPike Nov. 18, 2009 @ 8:24 p.m.

I think I HAVE to watch the self-produced Kinkade documentary at this point.

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SDaniels Nov. 18, 2009 @ 8:27 p.m.

Hey, hey, my, my... Kinkade's work will never die.. Take a look at the landfills For the reason why... Hey, hey, my, my...

My, my, hey, hey... Kinkade's work is here to stay... Old ladies love snowglobes And cherubs that pray... My, my, hey, hey...

All together now:

It's better to sell out Than to fade away... My, my, hey, hey...

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SDaniels Nov. 18, 2009 @ 8:32 p.m.

"Pain intense, but isolated."

Sounds like a partial haiku of my day, too. ;)

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bionicman Nov. 18, 2009 @ 8:56 p.m.

Forgot to laugh! You guys are so funny and cool it brings happiness to my ying yang. It must be Thomas Kinkade's Faith and Family values that gets children with nothing to do writing whatever on the comments page! Ha Ha! If you want to stay a nobody keep on doing what your doing. There are miracles happening every second on this planet and all you will have is the negative world the media brainwashes His children with! Go to an Eric Clapton and Steve Winwood concert or a Horse and Carriage ride through the Park. Get outdoors and take a few deep breaths of FRESH AIR! God is so good and we don't want you to miss out! Eternity is REAL so take a look at the stars and moon. How about going on a sailboat ride to "New Horizons" together? God bless, Bionicman

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SDaniels Nov. 18, 2009 @ 9:11 p.m.

...Or, rather than COMPLETELY missing the point, write a long pissy comment proselytizing to other negative children with nothing to do!!!

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PistolPete Nov. 18, 2009 @ 9:32 p.m.

Today's lessons:

Kinkade-BAD

Bob Ross-GOOD

bionicman-Needs to be sodomized in the ear with a sharp pencil

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arinoman Nov. 18, 2009 @ 9:39 p.m.

Just give me some black sharpies and I'll make these doodles into art.

Rino Picaso who?

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FullFlavorPike Nov. 18, 2009 @ 10:19 p.m.

re #9:

Daniels has finally won my heart <3

PS--Pain has spread to shoulder. Ouch.

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bionicman Nov. 18, 2009 @ 10:45 p.m.

Dear Pistol Pete, Let's meet in the parking lot! Sounds like you are a Negative one. Let's go! What do you want me to do to you?. Bionicman God bless!

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PistolPete Nov. 18, 2009 @ 11:19 p.m.

Dude....I'd bring Chicago raging into your world so fast, you'd see God himself and he'd say"What are ya? Stupid?"

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CuddleFish Nov. 19, 2009 @ 12:17 a.m.

Oh Em Gee ....

Rather than a p*ssing contest, howsabout we go back to Pike's other thread, the one with the bridal flip-flops???

That was priceless, AG, I laugh myself silly every time I think about them!!!

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SDaniels Nov. 19, 2009 @ 12:45 a.m.

re: #15:

"Daniels has finally won my heart <3"

Wedding's back on.

"PS--Pain has spread to shoulder. Ouch."

Once we get the e-ceremony over with, I'll get rid of that for you, dear. ;)

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SDaniels Nov. 19, 2009 @ 12:56 a.m.

re: #14:

Lissen up, "arinoman" aka "Goatttfish:"

Emailing strange rants to someone's department, and asking for information about a person constitutes cyberstalking. You are being watched, dude, so cut it out.

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FullFlavorPike Nov. 19, 2009 @ 1:51 a.m.

+1 and not on my blog, please.

I dunno if I can stoop to such heteronormative behaviors though, Daniels, even for the girl with the Neil Young mashup skilllllzzzzz ;)

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Josh Board Nov. 19, 2009 @ 1:57 a.m.

Regarding the above post...what makes you think those two people are the same person? Can't there be multiple people on these boards that do similar things? You and Geek need to stop obsessing over who is who. Either post and enjoy it, and ignore the people you don't care for. And, if someone contacted "your department" or "your work" and had some insane rant, I seriously doubt that would jeopardize your job. They would easily realize it's some nut job, no?

Pike: you do some good blogs, but attacking Kinkade (I'm not a fan of his...once dated a cop who was so proud of a painting she paid thousands for by him; she was upset when I laughed for 5 minutes straight). But, this topic (attacking Kinkade) has been so played over the years.

I remember 60 Minutes doing a story, as well as other folks. Although, you do a great job of bringing funny and hip to it, so it was a great read.

It just reminded me of the great documentary Super Size Me, but the fact that Spurlock could've used that same logic for ANY fast food place, yet he went with the easy target -- McDonald's (they sell Happy Meals, that try to make kids enjoy the place...isn't that horrible? Well, uh...not really).

If people are happy buying a Kinkade painting, and paying a few thousand more than it's worth, oh well.

As Geek pointed out...people also collect those Precious Moments things religiously. Some people buy a stamp of an upside down airplane for a million dollars. Or a Honus Wagner baseball card, for around that same price.

If the average person, thinks DiVinci Code or Stephen King is the best literature has to offer...well, what's the point in making fun of that? You can still read the hip, better authors. And let them enjoy their silly paintings.

Adam makes a great point at the start of this, regarding "what is art?"

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FullFlavorPike Nov. 19, 2009 @ 2:28 a.m.

Good points, Board. Thanks for joining. Although, the aim isn't ATTACKING Kinkade so much as looking at the function of Kinkade as a sort of marketable quantity. Knowwhati'msayin? I've got nothing against the guy--hell, if I could make a million bucks doing the vapid things I spend most of my time doing, I'd be all over it like flint on steel. Points for the "Inverted Jenny" reference, b t dubs.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 19, 2009 @ 2:40 a.m.

Well, I don't know about art but I know what I like I'll be a-surfin' in a swamp on a Saturday night.

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David Dodd Nov. 19, 2009 @ 2:51 a.m.

Kinkade has a reputation of being a jerk in public. I have no idea what that does to his art. I'm as likely to enjoy a good rendition of "Dogs Playing Poker" than I am at some cubist Picasso. I really did enjoy watching Ross, though, such a gentle soul. In a half-hour, he'd throw some white gesso on a blank canvas and by the end of the show he would have created something amazing. And he was so unpretentious about it, he'd tell you that even YOU could do it. Remarkable.

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CuddleFish Nov. 19, 2009 @ 3:13 a.m.

Pssst Daniels, AG, MsG:

Is it just me, or does it seem like the men on this forum suck all the oxygen out of the room everytime they jump on a thread? I'm excluding Adam from that comment, at the moment, but the rest, I mean, the smell of testosterone in this place is really off-putting, my darlings.

I gotta go find sken, TTFN! xxxxx

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arinoman Nov. 19, 2009 @ 7:21 a.m.

20

I have emailed nothing to no one about anyone. So before you go down that road make sure you know what you're talking about. This is a place to exchange ideas not 'shotgun' accusations.

I will use a blue sharpie if it will make you feel better.

Rino

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MsGrant Nov. 19, 2009 @ 7:47 a.m.

Fun has officially left the building.

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RobertScorpio Nov. 19, 2009 @ 8:49 a.m.

I think these works by Kinkade are really good. I can almost see a Hobbit walking by. If I had the money, I would buy one.

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Josh Board Nov. 19, 2009 @ 10:05 a.m.

Robert....that's disappointing to hear (and to think, they thought we were the same).

Refried gave me an idea. There are artists that paint recreations of famous paintings. One company is in Encinitas or Carlsbad, I forget where.

I'd love to have them doing the dogs playing poker, but in that Picasso/cubism style. That would be awesome. I'd have them throw in a boob, too...in some weird location near the dogs head.

Cuddle...the guys (refried especially) actually make the threads interesting. You and the rest of the gals, just post the same goofy comments over and over (example: hey darling, loved your post. Response: Hey you...did you find your files yet?...who cares? Write something interesting already -- just a thought)

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SDaniels Nov. 19, 2009 @ 10:24 a.m.

Josh, you are really one to chide about controversial topics. Your column is often very hateful to people of color, as well as women. You continue to seem astonished by this fact, but it is the truth.

I really have no interest in denouncing you as masquerading as "RobertScorpio," though I think AG is onto something--he writes EXACTLY like you do. That much is clear. Oh, and as for guessing who's who on the blogs, the person who would be obsessed with that would be SurfPuppy, not AG or me. You have attempted to create the impression that we are obsessed with identity based on my occasional teasing of SurfPuppy about who he might be. SurfPuppy uses it as a tool of rhetoric, and I think his dramatic 'revelations' are harmless, and actually pretty funny sometimes.

Anyway, this is NOT to say that I want to reestablish any kind of communication with you, Josh. I have my hands full being cyberstalked by this "goatttfish" fellow, who has actually inquired about me at my department at NYU, and possibly UCSD. That kind of persistence is a little worrisome, as I have not encouraged any further communication, and someone took down all of his posts on John B's thread.

Arinoman, I can't prove it, but I'm keeping an eye on you. Like goatttfish, you are concerned with "subtle" racism, and have actually used this phrase, which shows repeatedly in goatttfish's rants over on Brizzolara's thread. I have no interest in functioning as Nancy Drew here, but when your department of affiliation is calling to ask about the freak sending a strange rant to them, well, you tend to be forced to get interested.

Pike, sorry to carry on with this on your thread, and I promise I won't respond here further, even if someone responds with untruth about me.

As for the heteronormative: I have been with the same man for about ten years without an actual ceremony. The day EVERYONE is allowed to get married, well, we might consider having a big party, but it means nothing but allowing the state into our lives, and we don't really need the official stamp. However, sometimes I say "husband" because "domestic partner" seems too long or confusing--and of course, I often get taken for gay saying this, too, though that doesn't bother me. A very interesting study could be done on how often and to whom one uses the terms "husband" or "domestic partner" or "boyfriend." ;)

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FullFlavorPike Nov. 19, 2009 @ 10:32 a.m.

SD: What's your affiliation with NYU? All I really know about NYU is that their French dept. is excellent, or at the very least has ample cash and opporunities to offer students therein. I was underimpressed by the NYU fellows guest-lecturing my senior year of college, but they seem to flaunt a fairly prestigious graduate program and I would take your $0.02 if you were giving it out.

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arinoman Nov. 19, 2009 @ 10:40 a.m.

Sdaniels

I am not Josh. I draw my name from a soap opera character from General Hospital. I think it is shortsighted when people claim that other people are other people. For all I know there are only three different people on this site and we all have about twenty screen names we rotate in and out of.

I think we need to see a doctor, don't you? yes.

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RobertScorpio Nov. 19, 2009 @ 10:47 a.m.

And so what if I do get my name from General Hospital Arinoman "I 'draw my name with a sharpie on every wall" I see. You need to grow up man.

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SDaniels Nov. 19, 2009 @ 10:53 a.m.

re: #32: I'm a doctoral student in comparative literature--my stalker already knows this, so--whatever.

I'm not sure who the "guest lecturers" were, Pike, but your evaluation seems a bit superficial. Best to evaluate individuals rather than entire departments, though yes, French and Comp Lit have excellent reps. Feel free to share your own affiliations, btw--funny, I'm not in a total mood of disclosure--oh, maybe because I'm being STALKED?!

33: I'm not sure if you are quoting this "RobertScorpio" fellow or not--all I know is the person who needs to see a doctor is the one who has been stalking me outside these threads, yes? I repeat, I have NO interest in the Josh/RobertScorpio debate. Just interested in this goatttfish person going away--from me, at least.

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RobertScorpio Nov. 19, 2009 @ 10:57 a.m.

Thats cool. On a side note; do you tutor French. My daughter is taking French at Mira Mesa and is having a hard time. I'm glad when I went there I didn't have to take a foreign launuage class, I can barely get by in English.

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SDaniels Nov. 19, 2009 @ 11:06 a.m.

Robert, my French has suffered from many years of disuse, and it's been a long time since I stayed in France around native speakers. Tutors should be plentiful at UCSD, though--I had a great one there. There is also an instructor at Mesa College who is fabulous--can't remember her full name at the moment, as it has been about fifteen years--first name is Edith, I think. Check out the boards at UCSD and you'll find a few hungry grads willing to tutor on the cheap, and "bonne chance" to your daughter! ;)

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bionicman Nov. 19, 2009 @ 11:08 a.m.

17 Dear Pistol Pete, Let's see it!Bring it on stupid!

Since nobody even named another artist that they like better than the most popular in the World, Thomas Kinkade, We know that the children reading this crap don't even like art and know nothing about artists anyway. Good luck nobodies! God bless all of you John 3:16 (look it up). I love Claude Monet, Vincent Van Gogh, Manet, Rembrandt, Etc. (Pete should stop commenting and give up the computer and get a life and go to work or stop doing this while he is getting paid at work or he will get fired.)( I will take you on anytime Pete).

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SDaniels Nov. 19, 2009 @ 11:13 a.m.

Uh, yes I've studied art, bionicman, and Pike mentions Joan Didion in his column, so it seems fair to assume he has studied a bit of art himself. I prefer Minimalism as a loose bracket of styles of individual artists, and am doing my dissertation on Robert Smithson, most of whose work was affiliated with a New York school, then went on to do post-gallery "earthworks," such as the Spiral Jetty in Utah's Great Salt Lake. Perhaps you'd like to share why you like the artists you mention, bionicman?

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RobertScorpio Nov. 19, 2009 @ 11:13 a.m.

37

I was helping her with her homework this week. And even though I dont know how to speak it, I did pretty good. Some of their words, like Stadium, have been absorbed by english. If there was another language I would like to know it is french. It is very soft on the ears where I hear people use it.

About the only other language I know is Klingon.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 19, 2009 @ 11:22 a.m.

(#38) All right, boys, let's just end it right there. First, the Reader's forums are not a place for taking each other on, and second, my money would be on Pete by a long shot. (Nothing personal.) Also, bioman, the fact that "nobody even named another artist that they like better than the most popular in the World" proves exactly nothing. I could name a bunch of artists I like better, but so what? Nobody gives a hoot in hell what artists I like. No offense, pal, but arguing from silence will get you nowhere, and I'm pretty sure Pete doesn't need our career guidance. I could be wrong, but he'll ask for it if he does.

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SDaniels Nov. 19, 2009 @ 11:22 a.m.

40:

Robert, I believe the French are still using the word "stade," but yes, the cognates between the romance languages let us learn the languages much more easily. French seems soft, but as your daughter might attest, it gives the nonnative speaker quite an oral workout--the word "precise" is actually a verb for them, and they do demand precise pronunciation! I hear Klingon is pretty involved, and has its own dictionaries. ;) Anyway, bionicman reminds that it is time to get some work done. I'll be posting a new blog soon, though. Ciaou, all!

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PistolPete Nov. 19, 2009 @ 11:39 a.m.

LMAO @ bionicman!!! I should meet you somewhere and kick the ever livin' s out of you just because you think Thomas Kinkade is the greatest artist we've ever seen. What a fin' tool! I hope Satan eats your first born ya douchebag.

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FullFlavorPike Nov. 19, 2009 @ 1:17 p.m.

Daniels, you're actually in an NYU program and not one around here? Why don't you live in NY? Do they have some sort of Cali satellite campus?

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SDaniels Nov. 19, 2009 @ 1:23 p.m.

I finished my program, including teaching, and you can write the diss from anywhere, dude. ;)

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SDaniels Nov. 19, 2009 @ 3:50 p.m.

Yeah, guess that would be the more appropriate handle ;)

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bionicman Nov. 19, 2009 @ 3:58 p.m.

God Bless you Pistol Pete! now everyone knows what's inside your heart! You hate other people who are positive because you are filled with DARKNESS! HATE eats you up inside doesn't it? I love paintings by Albert Bierstadt, Thomas Moran, Fredrick Church, Thomas Cole and YES, Norman Rockwell! Pete you are not even worth talking to anymore. Get lost and please get some help. Your life is NOT worth living the way you are now. Good luck and by the way I find the column "revolting" and you won't find it hanging on my wall.

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PistolPete Nov. 19, 2009 @ 4:20 p.m.

No, bionicman, not everyone-just you! ;-D

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SDaniels Nov. 19, 2009 @ 4:26 p.m.

For what it's worth, (.02?), Pikey, I enjoyed "the column." Immensely. ;)

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SDaniels Nov. 19, 2009 @ 4:27 p.m.

Oh, and forgot to say--it is already hanging on my wall (minus the tiny Kinkade repro) ;)

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PistolPete Nov. 19, 2009 @ 4:29 p.m.

bionicman reminds me of the old episode of Miami Vice with the superhero of the neighborhood who tried to stop drugdeals and got hurt doing so because Crockett and Tubbs couldn't babysit him 24/7.

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antigeekess Nov. 19, 2009 @ 4:35 p.m.

"Fun has officially left the building."

Yup. It's bad enough that these obnoxious gasbags can't stay away from ANY blog and have to come in and stink the place up with their blowhardery, but some of them have to do it at least 2 different people.

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PistolPete Nov. 19, 2009 @ 4:48 p.m.

That's Mr. obnoxious gasbag, AG. I work damn hard at what I do whether it's being a blowhard or shovelin' horses***. :-D

Momma always said I'd get far in life if I worked hard...lol!

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Russ Lewis Nov. 19, 2009 @ 5:38 p.m.

Hey, listen, Pete -- you're not the only obnoxious gasbag on this website. Refried, Rino, Scorpio -- anyone for sucking oxygen? Boys' night out. Somebody get a hold of Josh.

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MsGrant Nov. 19, 2009 @ 6:09 p.m.

"Cuddle...the guys (refried especially) actually make the threads interesting."

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I PROUDLY GIVE TO YOU THE GUY'S COMMENTS THAT MADE THIS THREAD INTERESTING!!! DRUMROLL..........

"but the fact that Spurlock could've used that same logic for ANY fast food place, yet he went with the easy target -- McDonald's (they sell Happy Meals, that try to make kids enjoy the place...isn't that horrible? Well, uh...not really)."

Um, McDonald's started what we now refer to as supersizing. Hence the use of McDonald's as his subject matter which he called "Supersize Me".

DRUMROLL PLEASE....

"Dear Pistol Pete, Let's meet in the parking lot! Sounds like you are a Negative one. Let's go! What do you want me to do to you?. Bionicman God bless!"

DRUMROLL PLEASE.....

"I have emailed nothing to no one about anyone. So before you go down that road make sure you know what you're talking about. This is a place to exchange ideas not 'shotgun' accusations.

I will use a blue sharpie if it will make you feel better.

Rino"

DRUMROLL PLEASE......

"LMAO @ bionicman!!! I should meet you somewhere and kick the ever livin' s out of you just because you think Thomas Kinkade is the greatest artist we've ever seen. What a fin' tool! I hope Satan eats your first born ya douchebag."

BUT I SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST - DRUMROLL PLEASE....

"I'd love to have them doing the dogs playing poker, but in that Picasso/cubism style. That would be awesome. I'd have them throw in a boob, too...in some weird location near the dogs head."

"Pike: you do some good blogs, but attacking Kinkade (I'm not a fan of his...once dated a cop who was so proud of a painting she paid thousands for by him; she was upset when I laughed for 5 minutes straight). But, this topic (attacking Kinkade) has been so played over the years."

Exciting and interesting observations all. Especially "once dated a cop who was so proud of a painting she paid thousands for by him; she was upset when I laughed for 5 minutes straight"

Oh, sorry, I dozed off. So by laughing for five minutes straight who was attacking who? Wait, wasn't it just stated above that attacking Kinkade has been so played? Oh, that's right, only when someone more popular does it.

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MsGrant Nov. 19, 2009 @ 7:35 p.m.

LADIES AND GENTS!! ANOTHER WELL THOUGHT OUT POST BY ?? DRUM ROLL, PLEASE!!!

"Well, locally, it's now Tila Tequila. Her real name is Tila Nguyen, which is a lot easier to type than pronounce.

I remember my mom looking at my 9th grade yearbook at Mira Mesa High, and saying "Your school has a lot of Trans and Nguyens." She only pronounced one of the names correctly. Wanna guess which one?"

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David Dodd Nov. 19, 2009 @ 10:19 p.m.

Ms. Grant, my understanding is that "Nguyen" is simply pronounced as "win". I could be wrong, but a few Nguyens instructed me to pronounce their name in that manner. Nguyen can be either Chinese or Vietnamese from what I am told.

Regarding the "war of the sexes", can we park that right here? Men are basically transparent creatures and easy to figure out, there really isn't any secret to it. CF, I am getting the distinct impression that you hate men based on many of your comments here, and are attempting to rally the girls around your cause. The other women here have the capacity and intelligence to deal with men just fine, I suggest that you follow their lead and stop stepping on my comments with sexist responses. It makes you appear to be butch.

And to Pete and bionicman, knock it off already. Everyone has huge testicles on the internet. You're never going to meet offline, so none of this is impressive (I'm talking more to you, bionicman, just stop the crapfest).

And about men commenting in general: This is what they do, what we do. At the end of the day, you're going to find that even when men insult each other, fight a little bit, whatever, they just shrug it off and have a beer. Ladies, why let it get under your skin? Blow it off. Men forget about it, they really do. I can't tell you what to do, but I recommend that you just shrug and say, "Who in the hell cares?"

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Josh Board Nov. 20, 2009 @ 1:41 a.m.

Nice to see you still read my blogs, MsG.

I'm not sure I see what's so wrong with McDonalds coming up with "super sizes". Nobody is forcing anyone to order them.

Also, me laughing at a woman that paid thousands for a painting that didn't impress me, is a lot different than doing an entire written piece attacking a dude that's made millions with his light/painting gimmick.

And Geek, it's no surprise that you think I'm two or three people on these boards. You also think ghosts once moved a video on your book shelf. So, you believe all kinds of bizarre stuff.

(I'll respond again as Robert Scorpio, Goatttfish, arinoman, or one of the other people you ASSume I am).

Now go find your cat.

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Josh Board Nov. 20, 2009 @ 1:44 a.m.

Oh, let me add two last things.

First, if Pike doesn't want me to add any comments on his/her blog, I'll gladly stop.

Second, all you women do a disservice to Pike by going off on these attacks on me. Really, I don't mind. As I've said before, I'm paid to be here.

But really, you all enjoy Pikes stuff so much. As do I. So, why not stick to the topic at hand? And comment on HIS/HER blog?

I think in the breakfast blog, I commented on the Cornelius character, and was attacked first.

In this thread, I brought some comments up to Pike, and was attacked. And it seemed Pike didn't have a problem with it. Only the goofy chicks on this board, that want to troll and hoard a thread, for their only little...I dunno what you'd call it.

But I'm sure Pike (and any other readers) would prefer to read comments that relate to the blog at hand. Not goofy attacks on each other.

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MsGrant Nov. 20, 2009 @ 7 a.m.

I don't read your blog. I read the comments on the blogs I moved to once I stopped reading yours. Certain people met on your blog, but became disinterested in the content/comments based on personal preference. The Reader allows us to create our own blogs and invite others who share our mutual interests to join in and comment. Why do you feel the need to come over and highjack the reader's blogs if you don't agree with the content? Are you jealous that certain bloggers get more attention than you and you feel the need to destroy their readership? You're so cruel, calling Anti a fat ass and me and the other women whatever godawful thing comes to your pea brain. Why won't you just go away and blog and comment on your STAFF blog? Don't you get it? No one who left your blog likes you. Period.

Let me give an example of your stupidity. Okay, first you say "but the fact that Spurlock could've used that same logic for ANY fast food place, yet he went with the easy target -- McDonald's" - implying that Morgan Spurlock could have used any fast food joint but when for the easy mark. Then, I say "McDonald's started what we now refer to as supersizing. Hence the use of McDonald's as his subject matter which he called "Supersize Me"". To which you respond "I'm not sure I see what's so wrong with McDonalds coming up with "super sizes"." Do you intentionally miss the point? Do you EVER admit when you are wrong? That's why none of us read your blog or comment on it anymore. It's inane.

Refried, I expected better from you. Name calling is not nice. I have been guilty of it myself, but Cuddles is not "butch". And so what if she is? Who made you God?

And so, I finish with this, for the ladies.

Why doesn't Josh Board play in the sandbox? Because the cats keep trying to bury him.

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CuddleFish Nov. 20, 2009 @ 7:43 a.m.

Oh, and one further comment: No one really thinks Pike is really going to ask Josh to stop adding to his threads, if they do then they are completely misapprehending Pike's true nature. He may be smarter than the rest of them, but that doesn't make him any less a member of the Little Boys Club. :) Yah dude!

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Josh Board Nov. 20, 2009 @ 10:08 a.m.

Well MsG...I've admitted being wrong in blogs, when people bring up points I hadn't thought about before.

And again, if I'm such a mean person (that once bought you a meal when you wanted to interview me for some school newspaper you write for, or gave you $40 for your human society thing...). I'm a mean person that adopted a dog from the shelter and donates time and money to three different charities...uh, okay. Oh wait...I forgot. I once did a blog that was soooo mean towards women. I have no clue which one that was, but...I apparently do that all the time. Yeah, right. I guess that's news to the other women that read my blogs and haven't been offended by anything.

But, whatever. If you guys think I say rude things, it's easy enough to stay away from my threads.

But because I comment on Pikes threads, that's between Pike and I. And, you seem rather immature attacking me on those, and bringing attention to some bizarre fight, instead of Pike's topic at hand.

So, if you hate me and want to attack me...just send me an instant message. Don't destroy Pikes blog. It really isn't fair to him/her. If you go back to the start of Pikes threads...it's always you guys attacking me first.

That's the last I'll say on the subject. I'll keep things steered in the direction of the topic at hand.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 20, 2009 @ 1:25 p.m.

That's it, guys. We've been kicked out. We'll have to go find somewhere else to meet. This is now the ladies' room. Can't you see that banner on the Reader website that says "boys keep out"?

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CuddleFish Nov. 20, 2009 @ 1:40 p.m.

Actually, the banner says "W*nker City."

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PistolPete Nov. 20, 2009 @ 1:44 p.m.

LMAO!!! You actually censored the word wanker? AAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA! What a f***in' prude!

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David Dodd Nov. 20, 2009 @ 1:46 p.m.

Ms. Grant, sorry to disappoint you, but I won't be bullied by philogynist any more than I would expect you to be bullied by a misogynist. And I did not call CF butch, I said that she was acting like one. I can ignore a lot of BS here directed my way, but not all of it.

And russl, this will blow over. MOST of the women who enjoy the online version of the Reader have no designs on turning it into another Cosmopolitan. They mostly get pissed off at Josh because he's often inflammatory. Of course, since that's part of his job description, his editor is probably pleased every time something like this flares up.

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antigeekess Nov. 20, 2009 @ 6:17 p.m.

First unprovoked mention of me in this comment section by Josh Board:

"You and Geek need to stop obsessing over who is who."

I'm quite sure you wish everyone would stop questioning it, considering it's fairly obvious that you're several of them.

And in #63 (after yet more gasbaggery):

"Now go find your cat."

The maturity level of this 40-year-old boggles the mind, doesn't it, Reader readers? (Josh Board alter egos need not reply.)

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antigeekess Nov. 20, 2009 @ 6:35 p.m.

See, something really interesting happened riiiight here:

33 "Sdaniels

I am not Josh. I draw my name from a soap opera character from General Hospital. I think it is shortsighted when people claim that other people are other people. For all I know there are only three different people on this site and we all have about twenty screen names we rotate in and out of.

I think we need to see a doctor, don't you? yes."

By arinoman 10:40 a.m., Nov 19, 2009 > Report it

Now, this is ARINOMAN saying this, dear Reader readers. Is ARINOMAN a character on General Hospital? Not that I know of. (GH watchers, feel free to correct me.) Robert Scorpio, however, certainly IS a General Hospital character, but he's not the one who made that post.

"I am not Josh. I draw my name from a soap opera character from General Hospital." -- Arinoman.

Daniels had thought that Goatttfish and Arinoman were one and the same. Obviously, I think she's wrong about that one. But here we have Arinoman, as Robert Scorpio, denying being Josh Board.

Woopsie! Posted that one under the wrong user ID, didn't ya, Joshie?

(Try posting sober and maybe you won't make little f*ckups like that. Just a suggestion.)

Aaaaand seven minutes later, we get this from user ID Robert Scorpio, after he realizes his little boo-boo:


34 "And so what if I do get my name from General Hospital Arinoman "I 'draw my name with a sharpie on every wall" I see.

You need to grow up man."

By RobertScorpio 10:47 a.m., Nov 19, 2009 > Report it

Arguing with yourself is a sure sign of mental illness, Board. But we knew that already.

And my cat is fine. Thanks for your concern.

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David Dodd Nov. 20, 2009 @ 7:08 p.m.

I've never watched General Hospital, but I will admit, Rino seems an unlikely character name. Interesting sleuthing there, AG.

0

PistolPete Nov. 20, 2009 @ 9:05 p.m.

Hmmmmm. The plot thickens...like Chinese drywall.

0

rickeysays Nov. 21, 2009 @ 12:55 a.m.

I think I agree with you now, Arinoman and Scorpio are the same person. I still don't get your leap from that to they're both Josh, though.

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SDaniels Nov. 21, 2009 @ 1:33 a.m.

re: #76: Good sleuthing, AG. I did think it strange when I saw that arinoman had posted a response that should have been from RobertScorpio, and thought the former must have been quoting the latter. I didn't bother to scroll up to confirm. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but there you have it.

I was watching arinoman to make sure he wasn't goat3fish (who began stalking me outside the Reader) for the obvious reason that both were concerned mainly with racist intent or expression. The other day a post from arinoman on the homepage caught my eye, and it turned out to use the phrase "subtle racism." "Subtle racism" was of course goat3fish's obsession on Brizz's thread. Josh read goat3fish's stuff, though, and could have easily just copied the idea.

rickeysays, I invite you to compare Josh's and RobertScorpio's writing, on RobertScorpio's last two blogs. He does everything but use the words "dope" or "goofy." All the other markers are there, and actually hard to miss!

Arinoman and Josh? I would not have seen it at first, and it is still a little hard to compute. There is NO way in hell Josh was goat3fish, though. Wow! Hey! I guess we are having fun with the identity stuff--where's SurfPuppy when you need his puppy sleuthing skills? ;)

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rickeysays Nov. 21, 2009 @ 2:19 a.m.

I just did. I still don't see it. Antigeekess thinks anybody with a typo is Josh, but I look at the content. Scorpio wants to talk about scifi themes, he's talked about politics, and has refered to his family (son and daughter). Josh has NEVER shown any interest in scifi (I would remember), has shown little interest in politics, and has refered only to his girlfriend. I think you guys are off-track on this one.

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rickeysays Nov. 21, 2009 @ 2:20 a.m.

Unless of course you think I'M Josh too. In that case the deviousness is extraordinary.

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SDaniels Nov. 21, 2009 @ 2:32 a.m.

You do have some points, rickeysays--and no, no one thinks you are Josh ;) I still think Scorpio and Board are almost too similar in style to be coincidence. Scorpio uses "but I digress" and employs many idiomatic quirks that are Josh's standards, and you might say well, what does idiomatic usage prove--except that they MISUSE them in the same exact way. Much of the content either IS similar, or plausible. There are perhaps things we do not know about Josh that he is able to talk about under a sock puppet, too, though I wouldn't want to get into anyone's private affairs. I think Josh has been a little intimidated about expressing his political opinions, and this handle offers a way to do it--to say anything with impunity.

I've thought about trying out a new handle and character, as a creative project, but I post too much just being myself, and prefer the responsibility and accountability that come along with using your real name and life story ;)

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Josh Board Nov. 21, 2009 @ 2:43 a.m.

Okay Geek...let me shed a little light on some things.

When I saw arinoman post "I am not Josh" and started reading, I immediately thought it was robert scorpio. The name at the bottom said "arinoman". So, my thought there went to "Oh...he must've cut and pasted that."

But it didn't look like a cut and paste job. And, I didn't recall reading that anywhere. So, I spent five minutes looking for old posts that arinoman cut and pasted that from.

I didn't see it. And I immediately concluded, that arinoman must be robert scorpio. At that point, I thought about a time that scorpio posted on some thread saying how idiotic arinoman was. That confused me for about five seconds, until I realized...if someone is trying to trick someone else with a fake screen name, that's the perfect thing to do. Have a conversation between the two.

So, I sent a message to robert scorpio. I said "the jig is up." and he admitted to creating this arinoman character. and i gave him crap in a series of messages. he replied, "hey...you should be happy, it brought attention to your blogs." and again, i went off, saying "I don't want negative attention. Just like I think Pikes blogs should be about pikes topics, not other little silly fights. And, when I initially saw arinomans posts, I doubted it was some "angry black man" because the logic wasn't there in the attacks. and I told scorpio that idiotic stunts like that, just hurt race relations. Because people like Pete, who 50% of the time shows intelligence, and the other 50% of the time shows ignorance. Well, he'll let one idiot like that make him think a certain way about an entire race of people. And it's stuff like that I hate.

Well, instead of me posting "haha...I figured it out! this person is this person." I just let it go. Because, I'll admit, part of me liked watching you dumb broads going back and forth thinking "goatfish is arinoman, scorpio is Josh, and blah blah blah."

But, since I don't want any association with Scorpio, I figured I'd explain all that. (no offense Scorpio).

rickey...your logic doesn't make a lot of sense, because if I was creating a fictional screen name/character, I wouldn't be talking about the same things. That would be obvious.

Now, you gals can go back to your bizarre conspiracy theories and interesting world views.

(glad to hear the cats fine; hopefully the ghosts are, too)

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SDaniels Nov. 21, 2009 @ 3:07 a.m.

Don't you just wish we really were "dumb broads" and "gals," Board? Wouldn't it make your life, and your "debates" just a heck of a lot easier? Since you like to call names, I'll return the favor:

Putz.

And I would not put it past you at all, in the name of max hits and a paycheck, to use a couple of sock puppet accounts to try to drum up the very sort of negative controversy that "hurt[s] race relations," to quote you.

Why? Because you spend half your blogging time doing just that under your own name (that is, when you are not insulting women or cyclists, or--[insert name of group here].

Continue to enjoy your putz-fest, Josh aka RobertScorpio aka DaniLauder. ;)

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rickeysays Nov. 21, 2009 @ 3:07 a.m.

That's it. I'm just going to assume there are only two people on here; me, and the genius with a lot of time on his/her hands who plays everybody else.

0

Josh Board Nov. 21, 2009 @ 3:12 a.m.

SDaniels...see the post in regards to the $5,000 offer I have on the table for all you women that seem to think I post under multiple names.

Yes, I agree "dumb broads" is offensive. But with all of your conspiracy theories and attacks as of late, I think it's warranted, no?

But, is the word "gals" offensive? If so, I didn't realize that.

Regarding hits, I wrote a blog that my editors said had over 15,000 hits. So, creating characters isn't necessarily something I think is so far fetched, but trust me...if you look at the amount of posts I do under my own name, I really don't have time to create a whole cast of other characters for all the devious reasons you and Geek suspect. And if I did, I would do what I've wanted to do from day one.

CREATE CONVERSATION AND INTERESTING DEBATE.

A person like the ficional arinoman, did none of that.

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SDaniels Nov. 21, 2009 @ 3:15 a.m.

"CREATE CONVERSATION AND INTERESTING DEBATE."

Hopefully you will someday learn to do this without systematically attacking and hurting people, Josh. That's all I have to say. Over and out.

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antigeekess Nov. 21, 2009 @ 6:28 a.m.

Daniels wrote: "I was watching arinoman to make sure he wasn't goat3fish (who began stalking me outside the Reader) for the obvious reason that both were concerned mainly with racist intent or expression."

I think Goatttfish is Goatttfish, and that's it. He seems genuine. Did you check out his MySpace page?

Regarding the stalking issue, this could be very easily put to rest, you know. But I'll email you about that. No need helping anyone here to smarten up.

:)

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 21, 2009 @ 9:37 a.m.

That's it, guys. We've been kicked out. We'll have to go find somewhere else to meet.

By russl

If I find a website that allows untrained circus chimps to post-I will email you russl!!!!!

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Russ Lewis Nov. 21, 2009 @ 12:48 p.m.

"If I find a website that allows untrained circus chimps to post-I will email you russl!!!!!"

You prove in your every post, SurfPussy, that you're not a chimp yourself, because at least a circus chimp can spell and punctuate better than you.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 21, 2009 @ 2:46 p.m.

You prove in your every post, SurfPussy, that you're not a chimp yourself, because at least a circus chimp can spell and punctuate better than you.

By russl 12

hahahha..."Burger Boy" crashes yet again.

Hey, I hope your circus work pays better than your BK job, Mr. chimp!

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 21, 2009 @ 2:53 p.m.

Hey, listen, Pete -- you're not the only obnoxious gasbag on this website.

By russl

But russle, aka "Burger Boy" is the BIGGEST "obnoxious gasbag" on this website.

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SDaniels Nov. 21, 2009 @ 4:08 p.m.

I can't believe you have fallen for SurfPuppy's antics, russl ;)

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Russ Lewis Nov. 21, 2009 @ 7:33 p.m.

"But russle, aka 'Burger Boy' is the BIGGEST 'obnoxious gasbag' on this website." Bigger than Fumber? Gee, I didn't know you thought that highly of me, SpermPuppy. You're a sweetheart.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:30 a.m.

Thanks for the compliment "Burger Boy"!

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:59 a.m.

I can't believe you have fallen for SurfPuppy's antics, russl ;)

By SDaniels

You gotta be kididng me SD!!!

"SurfPuppy's antics"??????????? Are you serious>??

That gasbag russl has been staklking me the last 2 weeks. All I am doing is responding back after he kept on with the negative comments about me. It seems russl can't take it when I call GED educated firewhiners, making $200K per year for a job that is pretty simple and very over paid.

Please SD, I thought you had more integrity than that.

Now you made me cry.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 11:09 a.m.

SpermPuppy, you'll recall that out of nowhere you called me a "confirmed trough feeder" -- i.e., public employee -- when I in fact work in the typesetting industry. I challenged you to tell me what I do for a living, and it was work to get a response out of you, due to your own recalcitrance. And this you call my stalking you. Good job of rewriting history. And you're right, SD, I fell for it. I responded to a baseless false accusation by a shyster and paid the price. Never again.

Oh, could you make him cry some more? Thanks.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 11:15 a.m.

SpermPuppy, you'll recall that out of nowhere you called me a "confirmed trough feeder" -- i.e., public employee -- when I in fact work in the typesetting industry.

Yes, I made that trough feeder comment after you started spinning the firewhiner baloney about how "dangerous" their job was-something about "running into burning buildings" as I recall. Never mind they don't actually do that, and the job is one of the safest in the nation, yet the educational requirement is a GED and the compensation is $200K per year, which is destroying the city, county and state.

Then you pretty much started making your dumba** comments/name calling on every thread I was posting in-so get ready for some return serve Burger Boy.

You wanted to play-let's play.

As for the crying comment- it was obviosuly over your GED head. Sorry.

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SDaniels Nov. 22, 2009 @ 11:34 a.m.

russl, he will NEVER stop. That's the thing. Think of a puppy, jaws open, snapping down on your pantleg and pulling, as you scoot his furry butt across the floor. He lives for this, russl. It is not in real malice--it is really just play to him, and you are feeding him doggy treats in the form of nuggets of negative attention. At the least, you could find an issue of substance to argue while you are trading sixth grade insults! ;)

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 11:56 a.m.

I LOVE doggie treats.

The 6th grade insults comment is more applicable to you and Petey though SDaniels.

Like I said-Bruger Boy russl started this by constatly making stoopid remarks in any thread I posted-I didn't start this flame but I am going to finish it.

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MsGrant Nov. 22, 2009 @ 12:30 p.m.

Tears Run Rings by Marc Almond Play song from Lala.com The Stars We Are - 2003 - 4:21 Listen on: Lala - Rhapsody - Pandora

I love this song. Whenever I am feeling divisive, I play it and it brings it all back into perspective. It starts out as a love song, and then becomes sort of political, but in a good way.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 12:49 p.m.

"The 6th grade insults comment is more applicable to you and Petey though SDaniels." Is that a sentence, Pup?

"Like [sic] I said-Bruger [sic] Boy russl started this by constatly [sic] making stoopid remarks in any thread I posted-I didn't start this flame but I am going to finish it."

Please.

0

MsGrant Nov. 22, 2009 @ 12:59 p.m.

Hello? Stop fighting. It's time for some FOOTBALL!!!!

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 1:34 p.m.

The 6th grade insults comment is more applicable to you and Petey though SDaniels." Is that a sentence, Pup?

"Like [sic] I said-Bruger [sic] Boy russl started this by constatly [sic] making stoopid remarks in any thread I posted-I didn't start this flame but I am going to finish it."

Please.

By russl

Hey GED Boy, aka Burger Boy....is that all you got??????????

Pleaaseeee...... you're stoopid!

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 2:04 p.m.

Once again, no response, just an insult. Like any good lawyer. Oh, and that's Bruger, not Burger. Your spelling, not mine.

0

Josh Board Nov. 22, 2009 @ 2:58 p.m.

SurfPup....if you guys are talking about firefighter and police, and you're still on your kick about how much they make, here's something that can prove you wrong.

My friends dad was the highest level of cop you could be. I want tell you which police force, but it was locally. And this was around the mid-90s. If there was a shooting or something, that one of his officers was involved in, most times, the quote about the case came from him. It was also followed by the fact that he was making $108,000 a year.

So surf...to think that the officers below him, when he's the head honcho, are making that (I know, I know...you're going to go down that overtime path, and the fact that they have retirements and benefits)...that's all silly talk.

There's no reason why cops, firefighters, etc...shouldn't have a nice retirement package after putting their lives on the line for 20/25 years.

Their yearly salaries are on par with teachers.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 3:23 p.m.

Watch out, Josh; say one word in defense of a firefighter and you're going to get branded a GED-educated, trough-feeding, stalking (or rather, "staklking") firewhiner by a semiliterate shyster, once SpermPuppy gets his secretary to spell it and write it for him. The stain of this disgrace can never be removed.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 3:57 p.m.

If there was a shooting or something, that one of his officers was involved in, most times, the quote about the case came from him. It was also followed by the fact that he was making $108,000 a year.

So surf...to think that the officers below him, when he's the head honcho, are making that (I know, I know...you're going to go down that overtime path, and the fact that they have retirements and benefits)...that's all silly talk.

Did you include the pension and other benefits??

Oppppssss...that DOUBLES their compensation.

That does NOT include OT either. There are GED educated cops, FF's and prison guards who are ALL making more than $200K per year with OT added in (not even including the benefits).

What you forget (and what guys like JF, JW and Burger Boy Russl leave out) is that their benefits are worth as much, maybe more, than their compensation.

Have you ever figured out what it costs to fund a 90% pension of someone making %108K per year (or $75K, $85K or $100K), with automatic annual 3% COLA's and free healthcare for life?? I can tell you. Age 50 to the avergae age of death for a cop or firewhginer is 31 years (age 81)-it takes a minimum $2.5 MILLION dollars. If you're making $108K it is going to be more (just a simple claculation on [email protected]%x31 years is over $3 million alone, without COLA's or any healthcare costs).

So again, you need to make sure you include the whole compensation package, which our GED buddies here always leave out.

So, again, when you leave off a MAJOR portion of their compensation you're not being honest.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 3:59 p.m.

Watch out, Josh; say one word in defense of a firefighter and you're going to get branded a GED-educated, trough-feeding, stalking (or rather, "staklking") firewhiner by a semiliterate shyster, once SpermPuppy gets his secretary to spell it and write it for him. The stain of this disgrace can never be removed.

By russl

See the above post Burger Boy.

I know it is hard for the GED educated idiots like "Burger- FF's run into burning buildings- Boy" russl here to handle.

BOOM!

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 4:08 p.m.

There's no reason why cops, firefighters, etc...shouldn't have a nice retirement package after putting their lives on the line for 20/25 years.

Their yearly salaries are on par with teachers.

By JoshBoard

There is NO reason why a GED educated cop/firewhiner who is already making over $100K in cash compensation, not including benefits, should be able to "retire" after putting in just 20 or 25 years. That is not even HALF a career.

I also do not know why you would make that comment. I know why the cop/FF/Burger Boy russl would, they are trying to pick everyone's pocket-but why would you say that?

Why should they have to only work 20 years while everyone else works until age 67 to retire-with a fraction of what the average cop/FF will receive?????????????????????

And for the record, they are NOT " putting their lives on the line for 20/25 years", another whopper lie. Both jobs are one of the safest in the nation, and not even in the top 10 for danger.

Please stop promoting these falsehoods.

Both cop and firehwiner also make more than the average teacher-much more.

The "average" teacher in CA is making $66K per year in pay and another $39K per year in benefits, for a total of $105K per 37 week work year. With no fear of ever being fired or laid off. Not exactly a hard job.

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 4:23 p.m.

You don't know many schoolteachers, do you, SpermPup? And I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth, though I know how likely that is. By the way, tell me how working in typesetting is "trying to pick everyone's pocket." Go ahead, tell me, I'm listening, or is that just another one of your endless unfounded accusations?

OK, now you can flag this comment for removal. Seems to be your standard operating procedure.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 4:47 p.m.

You don't know many schoolteachers, do you, SpermPup? And I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth, though I know how likely that is. By the way, tell me how working in typesetting is "trying to pick everyone's pocket." Go ahead, tell me, I'm listening, or is that just another one of your endless unfounded accusations?

OK, now you can flag this comment for removal. Seems to be your standard operating procedure.

By russl

Wow, that was a MAJOR meltdown.

I am impressed!

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 4:49 p.m.

Josh, no one is against a fair pension for gov employees, but what is going on today with gov pensions, ESPECIALLY the ff and cop pensions, is out of control.

Please read this post from Steve Greenhut-who has a book coming out on the subject;

http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/public-220533-pension-employees.html

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 4:50 p.m.

Here russl buddy, this one is for you;

“Retirement plans were designed to provide economic security to people when they were no longer able to do their jobs, so they could live out their remaining years with dignity and self reliance, not so they could double their income at the public's expense, or retire as millionaires at age 50.”

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 4:54 p.m.

Yes? And?

Once again, you dodge a direct question by responding with a mere insult. And don't forget to flag this comment for removal.

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 4:58 p.m.

See what I mean, Josh? Say the wrong thing and you're forever branded as someone who defends indefensible pay scales and retirement plans for public employees, whether you ever did or not.

OK, SpermPuppy, flag this one for removal too.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 5:02 p.m.

Once again, you dodge a direct question by responding with a mere insult. And don't forget to flag this comment for removal.

By russl

I like seeing the trough feeder meltdown!

I also see you didn't refute any of my FACTS!

0

MsGrant Nov. 22, 2009 @ 4:59 p.m.

GET YOUR OWM MF BLOG! You are boring the s out of anyone with half a brain!! Life is too short to listen to you two tussle, unless you want to bring it outside. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!!! IN THIS CORNER, I BRING YOU RUSSL - and IN THIS OTHER CORNER, I BRING YOU SURFPUSSY - let them kick the s out of each other OUTSIDE. It reminds me of Bridget Jone's Diary....FIGHT! REALLY, THERE IS A FIGHT!! OUTSIDE!!!

Everyone runs outside to see two grown men fight.

How about them Chargers!!??

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 5:03 p.m.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!!! IN THIS CORNER, I BRING YOU RUSSL - and IN THIS OTHER CORNER, I BRING YOU SURFPUSSY - let them kick the s*** out of each other OUTSIDE.

By MsGrant

Ms Grant-it is not fair for me to have a battle of wits with an unarmed challenger like russle the "Burger Boy" :)

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 5:07 p.m.

You don't know many schoolteachers, do you

If you consider several thousand as "don't know many schoolteachers", then you are correct.

But I see you didn't dispute the facts of teacher compensation, just more of your mindless name calling. Big surprise there.

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 5:14 p.m.

SurfPussy, for God's sake, grow some thicker skin. You're a lawyer. You could use it.

"I also see you didn't refute any of my FACTS!" Well, if you've been awake then you'll notice that I never disputed them. (Stay with me here.) You've just been hurling one accusation after another that I did dispute them. You're also too much of a dumbs*** to understand that you can't order burgers at a type shop; sorry, SpermPuppy, still can't help you. And you STILL haven't answered one SIMPLE question: "By the way, tell me how working in typesetting is 'trying to pick everyone's pocket.' Go ahead, tell me, I'm listening.'"

OK, now dodge that one for a third time, and don't forget to flag this comment for removal.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 5:24 p.m.

SurfPussy, for God's sake, grow some thicker skin. You're a lawyer. You could use it.

"I also see you didn't refute any of my FACTS!" Well, if you've been awake then you'll notice that I never disputed them. (Stay with me here.) You've just been hurling one accusation after another that I did dispute them. You're also too much of a dumbs*** to understand that you can't order burgers at a type shop; sorry, SpermPuppy, still can't help you. And you STILL haven't answered one SIMPLE question: "By the way, tell me how working in typesetting is 'trying to pick everyone's pocket.' Go ahead, tell me, I'm listening.'"

OK, now dodge that one for a third time, and don't forget to flag this comment for removal.

By russl

........and the meltdowns continue...................

And BTW-you have made numerous claims that FF is a "dangerous" job-that I don't know many teachers (and why that has anything to do with the price of eggs is a mystery), that I have reported your comments, that ....well, you get the picture.

Oh, and the name calling, don't forget the name calling!

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 5:27 p.m.

"By the way, tell me how working in typesetting is 'trying to pick everyone's pocket.' Go ahead, tell me, I'm listening.'"

OK, now dodge that one for a third time, and don't forget to flag this comment for removal.

By russl

If you have any intelligence, which you do not, you would know my comment about ripping off the taxpayer was directed at the gov pension scams, specifically the [email protected] that FF/cops/prison guards receive (which they did not pay for or earn)-which you have defended on numerous occassions.

Like I said-I didn't start this name calling and stalking, but I am going to finish it.

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 5:28 p.m.

"The 'average' teacher in CA is making $66K per year in pay and another $39K per year in benefits, for a total of $105K per 37 week work year. With no fear of ever being fired or laid off. Not exactly a hard job."

Funny, my elementary school-teaching friend found out she's losing her job at the end of the school year. She makes a little more than I do, which is WELL under $66 thou. And she buys plenty of her supplies out of her own pocket. It's an emotionally draining, physically exhausting grind that she maintains in spite of cancer and chronic illness. Not exactly a hard job. If she's earning what you say, she deserves every cent.

"If you consider several thousand as 'don't know many schoolteachers', then you are correct."

You know several thousand teachers? Well, then I truly am impressed and take back what I said. You're not exaggerating, are you? Man, you must have some massive parties.

Gotta wash my hair now, Pup. Don't forget to flag this.

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 5:39 p.m.

"If you have any intelligence, which you do not, you would know my comment about ripping off the taxpayer was directed at the gov pension scams, specifically the [email protected] that FF/cops/prison guards receive (which they did not pay for or earn)-which you have defended on numerous occassions [sic]."

Well, first, SpermPuppy, you're confusing me with other posters. I haven't defended those pay scales. And here are your words:

"I know why the cop/FF/Burger Boy russl would, they are trying to pick everyone's pocket-but why would you say that?"

Now, with my lack of intelligence, I read that as saying that cops, firefighters, and I are "trying to pick everyone's pocket" -- am I right so far? And I asked how typesetting is "picking everyone's pocket" -- i.e., drawing excessive pay on the public payroll.

Once again, Pup, tell me how my job does so. You don't have an answer, do you?

Don't forget to flag this comment for removal.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 5:43 p.m.

"Funny, my elementary school-teaching friend found out she's losing her job at the end of the school year. She makes a little more than I do, which is WELL under $66 thou. And she buys plenty of her supplies out of her own pocket. It's an emotionally draining, physically exhausting grind that she maintains in spite of cancer and chronic illness. Not exactly a hard job. If she's earning what you say, she deserves every cent."

If she is tenured-which ALL teachers are after just two short years, then she is NOT losing her job.

As for the pay, $66K is the AVERAGE CA school teacher pay-if she is making less then she is below average, if she is making more she is ABOVE average (some districts AVERAGE $150K per year). In any event, even if she is only mnaking $50K as a first or second year teacher she is still well above the state median pay scale-not even counting her benefits. As for buying supplies-that comment is made by virtually every teacher I know-too bad it is almost always false, like so many of the public employee whoppers.

"You know several thousand teachers? Well, then I truly am impressed and take back what I said. You're not exaggerating, are you? Man, you must have some massive parties."

Yes, I know several thousand, having worked in and around school districts for over 20 years. Hardly "parties", but when you get spanked with the truth I guess it is hard for you to admit it.

Now go take your weekly bath. Maybe when you're through you can coem back here and make more of your bogus claims.

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 5:49 p.m.

And BTW-you have made numerous claims...that I don't know many teachers (and why that has anything to do with the price of eggs is a mystery)...."

Well, look at the comment of yours that immediately preceded it -- #110. It dealt with teachers' pay. Surely you can see the connection.

"Oh, and the name calling, don't forget the name calling!"

Yes, I seem to recall things like "confirmed trough feeder."

Oh, don't forget to flag this one too.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 5:53 p.m.

Well, first, SpermPuppy, you're confusing me with other posters. I haven't defended those pay scales. And here are your words:

"I know why the cop/FF/Burger Boy russl would, they are trying to pick everyone's pocket-but why would you say that?".

By russl

And once again the denials come into play.

Eerrrrrrr....yes, you have defended the firewhiner pay and pensions, and then you melted down when I started calling you on it-with more of your whopper lies, like this one;

"A trained chimp that doesn't mind risking its life in a burning building."

By russl

Oh, I see that is another one of your whopper lies-with no proof of course, but that in no way was to support the pay and pension scams, was it (according to you anywaay)?????? I mean the firewhiner (according to you anyway) "doesn't mind risking its life in a burning building."

By russl

You want to float those bogus claims, then I'm calling you on it. Must hurt to get spanked like that.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 6 p.m.

And BTW-you have made numerous claims...that I don't know many teachers (and why that has anything to do with the price of eggs is a mystery)...."

By russl

Yes, I looked at it-and once again-why that has anything to do with the price of eggs is a mystery, but feel free to keep "dodging" the questions.

"Yes, I seem to recall things like "confirmed trough feeder.""

And your "SurfPussy" and "SpermPuppy" comments are the same in your eyes???? Hmmmmmm........

I think that the Reader may be removing your comments because they violated the TOS-but that is just a guess, you should really contact them (or Fumbler), they are the ones that run the website-not me. I didn't remove anything.

0

SDaniels Nov. 22, 2009 @ 6:20 p.m.

re: #108:

Did you include the pension and other benefits??

Have you ever figured out what it costs to fund a 90% pension of someone making %108K per year (or $75K, $85K or $100K), with automatic annual 3% COLA's and free healthcare for life??

and #110:

Why should they have to only work 20 years while everyone else works until age 67 to retire-with a fraction of what the average cop/FF will receive?????????????????????

and #113:

Please read this post from Steve Greenhut-who has a book coming out on the subject...

and #116:

See what I mean, Josh?

Surely these were rhetorical questions, comments, and reading recommendations...? ;)

re: #124:

russl, what a coinky-dink. I'm off to do the same. For as John Waters wrote:

"Why don't you go get your hair done, doll? It'll make you feel better!"

:)

0

SDaniels Nov. 22, 2009 @ 6:28 p.m.

russl, are you noticing your posts being removed? If so, are they just the ones in which you call SP "spm" or "puy?"

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 6:32 p.m.

Nobody said anything was removed. Only that you requested it.

I do think police and firefighters do deserve to be well compensated; that doesn't mean, as you imply, that I think they deserve all the money in the world, though where the cutoff point would be, I couldn't say.

Again, you misquote. My "trained chimp" comment was in response to your claim that any trained chimp could do a firefighter's job -- "A trained chimp that doesn't mind risking its life in a burning building." Yes, I stand by that. By the way, if your statement is true, why don't we replace the fire department with trained chimps? "That in no way was to support the pay and pension scams, was it (according to you anywaay)??????" No, in fact it wasn't. It was pertaining to a much narrower point explained above. Now take these words out of my mouth.

"Yes, I looked at it-and once again-why that has anything to do with the price of eggs is a mystery, but feel free to keep 'dodging' the questions."

Well, then here, for God's sake. In #110 you wrote, "The 'average' teacher in CA is making $66K per year in pay and another $39K per year in benefits, for a total of $105K per 37 week work year. With no fear of ever being fired or laid off. Not exactly a hard job." To which I responded, "You don't know many schoolteachers, do you, SpermPup?"

You still don't see a connection? Well, then I can't help you. This is not dodging a question, it's directly answering it. Speaking of dodging though, I've asked the question in #125 four times now and gotten four evasions. No sense trying to get a straight answer. You don't have one.

Don't forget to flag this comment for removal, Pup.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 6:37 p.m.

"Nobody said anything was removed. Only that you requested it."

That comment was directed to the Pup, not to you, SD. Just didn't want there to be any confusion.

(OK, SurfPup, flag this one.)

0

SDaniels Nov. 22, 2009 @ 7:21 p.m.

I guess I was wondering how you know he flagged your posts.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 8:08 p.m.

"Nobody said anything was removed. Only that you requested it."

That comment was directed to the Pup, not to you, SD. Just didn't want there to be any confusion.

(OK, SurfPup, flag this one.)

By russl

I didn't "request" anything, you obviously were violating the TOS and the web admin did whatever he did.

That should tell you something though-that you're breaking some sort of the TOS agreement.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 8:09 p.m.

russl, are you noticing your posts being removed? If so, are they just the ones in which you call SP "spm" or "puy?"

By SDaniels

Well, that might explain it, right SD.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 8:20 p.m.

I do think police and firefighters do deserve to be well compensated; that doesn't mean, as you imply, that I think they deserve all the money in the world, though where the cutoff point would be, I couldn't say.

Well, if you think they should be paid in the top 5% of income earners in the nation, for a job the MAJORITY of Americans could do, then me and you have a different idea of what "well compensated" means.

When FF's are making more than general practioner medical doctors do, doctors who spend 10-12 years in college and have student loans in the $200K-$300K range then you obviously have a compensation problem with FF's (and all gov employees in general), and your support of that nonsense is a joke.

BTW-if you SERIOUSLY took the circus chimp comment as anything more than sarcasm, then you have even bigger problems than you let on to.

There are over 1,000 applicants for every single FF job opening, and there are over 100 applicants for every single cop opening. You could cut the wages in HALF and get just as good, or even better applicants (since these jobs are all cronyism and nepotism gifted jobs-as evidenced by every major PD and FD in this state being sued, and entering into consent decrees, for such practices).

The notion that the FF's posting here claiming they don't make as much money as City A or City B is a crock of BS. And they do NOT "run into burning buildings" as you falsely claimed, and FFing is NOT one of the more "dangerous" jobs in this country.

Everyone else in America works to age 67 (to get maybe 30% of the income of their goor earning years), why are cops and FF's getting better pensions than anyone else while working 60% LESS than everyone else????????????????? And don't try to make the usual trough feeder claims (they die 5 years after retiring, they can't do the work, they [insert bogus claim here]).

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 8:23 p.m.

I guess I was wondering how you know he flagged your posts.

By SDaniels

He doesn't, he is just blaming me for his repeated violations of the website's TOS.

When you cannot respond with valid responses to legitimate questions then the next best thing is to deflect your bogus claims with other bogus claims-like the SurfPuppy can remove posts.

0

JF Nov. 22, 2009 @ 8:56 p.m.

since these jobs are all cronyism and nepotism gifted jobs-as evidenced by every major PD and FD in this state being sued, and entering into consent decrees, for such practices

Told you he'd be back with facts he couldn't prove.

Once again, Johnny, please gift us with information on how hiring at the SDFD has been affected by a consent decree at any point in the past 25 years.

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 8:58 p.m.

"...other bogus claims-like the SurfPuppy can remove posts."

You're not listening, SurfPup. I didn't say you could remove them, I said you requested their removal. You know this, and I know you know it, so quit lying. (Oh wait, you'd have to change professions.)

OK, be sure to flag this one.

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JF Nov. 22, 2009 @ 9:03 p.m.

The notion that the FF's posting here claiming they don't make as much money as City A or City B is a crock of BS.

Really? That's what every salary survey conducted says.

I'm not going to bother arguing about the rest of the falsehoods in your statements. Numerous posters have pointed out your lies before and you keep on typing them. Now you've stooped to threatening me by email. Pathetic.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 9:05 p.m.

Once again, Johnny, please gift us with information on how hiring at the SDFD has been affected by a consent decree at any point in the past 25 years.

By JF

SDFD has been sued, lost, and entered into a consent decree-and you know that JF, stop playing games.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 9:07 p.m.

I'm not going to bother arguing about the rest of the falsehoods in your statements. Numerous posters have pointed out your lies before and you keep on typing them. Now you've stooped to threatening me by email. Pathetic.

By JF

LOL...I didn't theaten you or anyone else funny boy-but like I said-if you want to play your games it is a two way street, and I guarantee you that you won't be laughing in the end. That is a promise.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 9:11 p.m.

You're not listening, SurfPup. I didn't say you could remove them, I said you requested their removal. You know this, and I know you know it, so quit lying. (Oh wait, you'd have to change professions.)

OK, be sure to flag this one.

By russl

And you're not listening-like I said, you either can't read or you're not capable of understanding that you must have been violating the TOS.

People don't have things removed by other bloggers, it is removed by the Admin, and if he removed something then you did something wrong.

Don't blame me for your TOS violations. Sounds like you need to blame others for YOUR violations of the TOS.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 9:19 p.m.

"People don't have things removed by other bloggers, it is removed by the Admin, and if he removed something then you did something wrong."

FOR THE LAST F***ING TIME, SURFPUP, LISTEN: Nothing WAS deleted. You, however, REQUESTED the removal of a bunch of comments.

There. Understand the difference now? You did, you know it, and I know you know it. So quit lying, or is that asking too much?

Check you tomorrow. Don't forget to flag this.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 22, 2009 @ 9:25 p.m.

FOR THE LAST F***ING TIME, SURFPUP, LISTEN: Nothing WAS deleted. You, however, REQUESTED the removal of a bunch of comments.

There. Understand the difference now? You did, you know it, and I know you know it. So quit lying, or is that asking too much?

Check you tomorrow. Don't forget to flag this.

By russl

I didn't request anything, that's just another one of your wild, unsupported, crazy comments-but that is not news now is it?

Here you go-take this advice-if you would stop violating the TOS then your posts probably would not be removed-don't blame ME for YOUR TOS violations.

Nice to see you cleaning up your posts though! Now beat it.

0

Jay Allen Sanford Nov. 22, 2009 @ 9:56 p.m.

I read almost all site posts and rarely comment, but --- Surfpuppy, those of us on the administration side of this website know who violates TOS, just as we know who flags comments for requested removal.

Russl has not violated the TOS - you keep assuming/pretending he has, because you keep ignoring (or trying to deflect notice from) the fact that he knows - and has publicly informed - that you flag comments for removal.

Such flagging isn't confidential - SurfPuppy should be aware that many people with access to (if not always control over) website transactions may also read and take part in blog posts.

Since SurfPuppy contributes to many website discussions, it's discourteous to flag someone else's comments for requested removal, and then deny having done so. Such behavior casts doubt about overall trustworthiness --

And on the matter of "secret" Reader site users having multiple screen-name handles and posting conversations with themselves - you should also be aware that every registered screen-name can be checked against the registrant's IP source. That said, it's not against any Reader rules to have multiple website names and personalities - just know that some of us cruising the blogs realize who you are (and aren't). From there, it again becomes a matter of each commentator's trustworthiness --

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Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:04 p.m.

"I didn't request anything, that's just another one of your wild, unsupported, crazy comments...."

That's the biggest lie since Hitler. You know it, and I know you know it. You can lie to everyone else, but you can't lie to me. That won't stop you, of course.

Oh wait, maybe Fumber is hacking into your account and flagging comments in your name. Yeah, that's the ticket.

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:08 p.m.

"Such behavior casts doubt about overall trustworthiness...."

Trustworthiness?!? Jay, he's a lawyer, for God's sake!

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:16 p.m.

(#147) Busted.

P.S.: Be sure to flag this, Surf Puppy 619, Esq.

0

David Dodd Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:17 p.m.

russl & SurfPuppy, can't you guys relax and just give it a rest? It's certainly understandable disagreeing, but both of you have really taken this argument over the top. Rest, gentlemen! Neither of you are getting anything accomplished. Take deep breaths, relax, get over it. It doesn't matter. You're both reasonably intellegent people and you're both comming off looking like children. I hate to see that.

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CuddleFish Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:28 p.m.

Thus sayeth the Forum God.

Jayallen, I must say I'm disappointed that admin would bust one of its bloggers by revealing that they have reported another blogger. Every site I've ever been on, admin keeps everything confidential.

0

CuddleFish Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:30 p.m.

If flagging isn't confidential, it should be. Otherwise, bloggers are discouraged from reporting abuse.

0

David Dodd Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:42 p.m.

"Thus sayeth the Forum God."

No, that one won't work. You tried it before. If the only reason you comment is to complain about this website and take poorly placed jabs at me, you might wish to consider going away. I'm sure there are plenty of other websites where you can cause lots of trouble.

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:44 p.m.

(#151) You're absolutely right, Gringo; guilty as charged. But hell, don't we all look like children?

0

David Dodd Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:49 p.m.

russl: I know, I go off too, but you guys have been at it pretty solid all day! I was pretty surprised by it. I've seen you guys on the same side of an argument before, it's just weird how that escalated. I hope you guys can nod and shrug it off. It's crazy enough in here sometimes with fumber and the rino/General Hospital nick, and all.

0

PistolPete Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:53 p.m.

Give it up CuddleFish. Gringo is obviously smarter than you. This forum is kind of like a courtroom. The reason you can find out who is flagging your posts is because(and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)harassment is against the TOS. I'm more then positive 100% of my posts flagged and/or removed by the Forum Gods was due to my own stupidity. Say this post gets flagged because I'm basically saying that CuddleFish looks like a total ass and she doesn't like it and flags it, I can find out if she's the one who flagged it. refried could claim harassment on CuddleFish because she follows him from topic to topic like that bitch in Fatal Attraction.

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PistolPete Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:55 p.m.

Remember what I said about this being a playground, refried. Odds are that the spat between russl & surfpuppy will blow over and things will come full circle. Men are like that. Women will hold a grudge till their vagina's turn to dust.

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 22, 2009 @ 10:59 p.m.

Let's lift one to free speech. Notice I didn't say civilized discourse, I said free speech. And to Fumber. You gotta admit, the guy's a crack-up. I'd never want to see him gone.

0

PistolPete Nov. 22, 2009 @ 11:01 p.m.

God I can't wait till Thursday. I'll be lifting quite a few in the name of unorganized anarchy. I HATE the holidays.

0

David Dodd Nov. 22, 2009 @ 11:08 p.m.

I've only flagged two comments that I remember, and neither were directed at me. Both were really bad. I base it on this: would I want my sixteen-year-old reading this? I'm a fairly open minded parent so far as language goes, so trust me, it was really bad. I think one post was from fumber, and I can't remember the other but it was from someone who doesn't post anymore. And Pete, as wild as some of your past comments have been, it never occurred to me to flag them. Not even Rino's racist comments.

I'm not worried about stalking. I wrote a stringer story many moons ago about how my wife was called by someone (Mexican) identifying themselves as with the Zetas, a bunch of thugs working for the drug cartels here. When she told me about the call, for a moment, I thought, "Crap, I've written some stuff about the drug wars, maybe...", but then I instantly came to my senses.

I could give directions on how to get to my house and no one would be able to find it! Turns out it was a bunch of crooks trying to cash in on the "fear" factor, trying to get someone to give them money for protection from nothing, they were randomly dialing Tijuana residents from the phone book. So, people can stalk away, they won't find me. If someone in the threads of the blog entries or stories takes a jab at me, I'll swing back if it occurs to me.

Sometimes I ignore it.

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David Dodd Nov. 22, 2009 @ 11:11 p.m.

Oh, yeah, russl, I'm lifting ;) I'm on the ass-end of a fifth of tequila I bought on Friday, and I still have a six-pack of Tecate in the fridge. I'm all over free speech.

0

PistolPete Nov. 22, 2009 @ 11:13 p.m.

I will NEVER flag anyone's posts. It goes against everything I stand for. I certainly won't judge anyone who does flag posts though. We've all got a different code of ethics/morals that I can respect. If I want someone to respect mine, I have to respect theirs as well.

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David Dodd Nov. 22, 2009 @ 11:23 p.m.

As I've stated previously, I'm a huge Bukowski fan. And he could sling bad language like whoa. But it worked in what he wrote. I encourage my daughter to read him, but she's still in the "Time Traveler's Wife" sort of area of interest. Eventually, she'll get into Buk, and probably some of my other favorites.

Anyway, I'm not a language prude at all. I tend not to use it when I write, but I reckon that's just my style. But what I did flag was waaaayyyy over the top. I was just trying to save the Reader admin the trouble of having to discover it, because it certainly would have been removed regardless.

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CuddleFish Nov. 22, 2009 @ 11:33 p.m.

Suck-ups are so annoying. :)

jayallen, please respond to my concern. Reporting should be kept confidential, in my opinion. I don't know of any other sites where admin doesn't keep that information confidential.

If I were to report someone, I would want to be in a position of deniability, would actually lie if asked, because I would presumably be reporting someone who had verbally harassed or abused me. Telling them I reported them would make me an even bigger target.

Not cool, Reader admin.

By the way, I read SurfPuppy's posts to mean, he did not request removal of posts. Reporting is not requesting, IMO.

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CuddleFish Nov. 22, 2009 @ 11:43 p.m.

Trustworthiness is an entirely separate issue, also, jayallen.

I have been on a number of sites where I had to report abuse and harassment, and never admitted/denied that I had reported those people, for a variety of reasons.

But even my enemies there would tell you that I was trustworthy, didn't violate confidences, didn't post content from private messages on the forums, didn't lie.

I don't know SurfPuppy well enough to say whether or not he is trustworthy, and really, this is a forum that thrives in lack of trusthworthiness, after all. I'm surprised you tried to fly that as a rationale for busting SP.

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CuddleFish Nov. 22, 2009 @ 11:57 p.m.

To get back to the thread topic:

Pike, I object to your characterization of Didion as dismal. When you say she is "admittedly known" as such, I would like to see some source cites to support your position.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 23, 2009 @ 12:36 a.m.

To all who have sworn never to flag a comment, I suggest you reconsider: flag spam. Please. Nobody wants it, including the host.

On the distinction between reporting and requesting removal: there is no distinction. There is no button for "Hey, I thought you should take a look at this"; there is one button, and it says "(Suggest removal)." Feel free to use it, but with discretion.

Back to our lifting.

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Jay Allen Sanford Nov. 23, 2009 @ 12:25 a.m.

Cuddlefish: jayallen, please respond to my concern. Reporting should be kept confidential, in my opinion. I don't know of any other sites where admin doesn't keep that information confidential.

Jayallen: I only confirmed what had already been stated plainly, several times in the same comment thread.

Cuddlefish: By the way, I read SurfPuppy's posts to mean, he did not request removal of posts. Reporting is not requesting, IMO.

Jayallen: I hadn't thought of there being a possible difference - I just assumed that to flag a comment is to request removal, but you're probably correct. Sometimes, flagging may occur just to bring attention to something or someone - but I suspect that most flagging is done in hopes of comment removal.

Cuddlefish: Trustworthiness is an entirely separate issue, also, jayallen.

Jayallen: Ahhh, but it shouldn't be. Hence me bringing it up - I realize that other websites have even more discourteous and dishonest commentators, but that's why I rarely participate. Perceived anonymity is no excuse for treating others poorly, or for accusing someone of posting "wild, unsupported, crazy comments" just because someone posted the truth.

If someone had accused SurfPuppy of the same, and I had knowledge the accuser is wrong, I would defend SurfPuppy as well. These comment sections can (and, IMO, should) contain actual comments, not attacks and bulls***.

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CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 12:40 a.m.

Oh how funny. My button says >Report it

Is there some English dictionary where the words "Report it" mean "Request removal" that I'm not aware of?

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CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 12:33 a.m.

Cuddlefish: jayallen, please respond to my concern. Reporting should be kept confidential, in my opinion. I don't know of any other sites where admin doesn't keep that information confidential.

Jayallen: I only confirmed what had already been stated plainly, several times in the same comment thread.

No, actually, you didn't. You confirmed that SurfPuppy had reported russl's posts. Hence, russl saying "Busted." You busted him.

Cuddlefish: By the way, I read SurfPuppy's posts to mean, he did not request removal of posts. Reporting is not requesting, IMO.

Jayallen: I hadn't thought of there being a possible difference - I just assumed that to flag a comment is to request removal, but you're probably correct. Sometimes, flagging may occur just to bring attention to something or someone - but I suspect that most flagging is done in hopes of comment removal.

Still not the same thing. I can report a post, in which case I am bringing it to admin's attention. Or I can request a post's removal, in which case I am asking admin to take a specific action on a post.

These comment sections can (and, IMO, should) contain actual comments, not attacks and bulls***.

By jayallen 12:25 a.m., Nov 23, 2009

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!

Which website are you referring to, jayallen????? Surely not this one?!?!?!?!?!

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Russ Lewis Nov. 23, 2009 @ 12:48 a.m.

(#171) I don't think so. But click on any bold name on this page; on the next page, click "view all" (in red); following that, if we're on the same page, so to speak, you'll see "(Suggest removal)."

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CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 12:55 a.m.

172

Ah, I see! Was not familiar with that process.

So it would be more accurate to say that one button says >Report it, which presumably you click and that brings a post to Admin's attention. And that there is another process, such that if you click a poster's name, you can suggest removal of that post, and other posts by that poster.

So in other words, there is quite a distinction, and not no distinction, as you posted. :)

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Russ Lewis Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:01 a.m.

Technically, I suppose so, although I don't know why else you'd want to report a post. ("Hey! This one's cool! Take a look!") Also, I'm still mystified as to where you found this "Report it" button.

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David Dodd Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:01 a.m.

Some people are ungrateful, Jay. You people are doing a stellar job here. I appreciate the lattitude given and the attention that is paid to inappropriate comments. Pass that along to all involved, please. I know that at times you guys get a lot of crap you don't deserve.

And CF, bugger-off with your comments about sucking up. You're the biggest suck-up here, trying to rally the girls against the boys. You're juvenile and totally ungrateful. These guys gave you a nice $500 dollar check and you want to tell them how to run their website?

lololololololololololololololol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just STFU already.

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CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:04 a.m.

russl, the >Report it button is at the bottom of each post, by the name, time, date stamp.

So, do you agree that if SurfPuppy had been clicking that button, he was actually in fact, "reporting" and not "requesting removal" via the other process? In other words, as I said in my first post on this subject, that he was telling the truth.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:16 a.m.

"russl, the >Report it button is at the bottom of each post, by the name, time, date stamp."

Dang, you're right. Just like the Purloined Letter.

"So, do you agree that if SurfPuppy had been clicking that button, he was actually in fact, 'reporting' and not 'requesting removal' via the other process?"

Yes, if he wanted to report it for the sake of reporting it. But somebody tell me why else someone would report a comment other than to have it removed.

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David Dodd Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:25 a.m.

"But somebody tell me why else someone would report a comment other than to have it removed."

His absence from this discussion is tell-tale. Russ, when you get a guy down and into a choke-hold, you let him up. He tapped out. I want to believe he would do the same for you.

0

CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:31 a.m.

Yes, if he wanted to report it for the sake of reporting it. But somebody tell me why else someone would report a comment other than to have it removed.

By russl 1:16 a.m., Nov 23, 2009

But that wasn't the question. What SurfPuppy said was very specific. He said he did not request removal of posts. Without knowing the process he used, he could have been telling the truth. In other words, for you and particularly for jayallen to say or imply that SurfPuppy was not telling the truth is inaccurate, based on incomplete information.

It is especially troubling that jayallen would call out Surfpuppy as someone who is not trustworthy. Again, without knowing SurfPuppy, that is an extremely harsh judgement. Calling him a liar is an extremely harsh judgement.

Of course, I'm not a boy. I don't think like boys do. :)

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Russ Lewis Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:39 a.m.

Well, Gringo, I think he demonstrated that he was perfectly willing to lie about others, lie (I'd call it) about himself, falsely accuse strangers, and evade evade evade when someone confronted him on it. I realize that the Internet was invented for libeling other people anonymously, but I still don't care for being maligned, even by a stranger. Come to think of it, nobody does.

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PistolPete Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:42 a.m.

"I realize that the Internet was invented for libeling other people anonymously..."

You'd be wrong on that russl. I do believe the intranets were created by Al Gore strictly for porn. :-D

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David Dodd Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:45 a.m.

"Calling him a liar is an extremely harsh judgement."

Looking for where Jay called SurfPuppy a liar... Nope. Not there. I realize you want this fight to continue, CF, because perhaps you are a sadist, but no. Not going to happen.

LoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLoLo!!!!!!!!

Of course, I'm not someone that hates men or women. I don't think like a sexist does :)

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David Dodd Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:48 a.m.

Yeah, but Russ, tonight we sleep and tomorrow is another day. If he keeps it up, then hell yes, you have every right. But if he doesn't, you know, we just have a beer and get over it. The internet is full of this crapola. We get over it. We really do.

0

CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:53 a.m.

Looking for where I said Jay called SurfPuppy a liar.

Please point out where I said that.

0

Russ Lewis Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:53 a.m.

(#179) Fish, I see your point and concede that Pup may well have been telling the truth based on a difference of perspective. But again, does anyone report a comment to single it out for commendation?

"Calling him a liar is an extremely harsh judgement." True, but no worse than insisting that a college graduate has but a GED and that a tax-paying private worker is a public employee (shudder!) and refusing to be told otherwise since he, naturally, would know.

You do make the excellent point -- you hinted at it anyway -- that there is no veracity whatsoever in these forums; anyone can say anything, and anyone who takes it at face value is a fool. Amen.

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CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:58 a.m.

Though of course jayallen did basically call SurfPuppy a liar in this post:

Perceived anonymity is no excuse for treating others poorly, or for accusing someone of posting "wild, unsupported, crazy comments" just because someone posted the truth.

If someone had accused SurfPuppy of the same, and I had knowledge the accuser is wrong, I would defend SurfPuppy as well. These comment sections can (and, IMO, should) contain actual comments, not attacks and bulls***.

By jayallen 12:25 a.m., Nov 23, 2009

By the way, russl, I realize I didn't answer your question:

Yes, if he wanted to report it for the sake of reporting it. But somebody tell me why else someone would report a comment other than to have it removed.

By russl 1:16 a.m., Nov 23, 2009

I'm assuming you really know the answer to this question, but will go ahead and spell out the obvious anyway.

You report in order to bring someone's conduct to admin's attention. You may report a number of posts in order to prove a point or build a case regarding a particular poster. You leave it in admin's hands as to what to do about that poster.

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PistolPete Nov. 23, 2009 @ 2:10 a.m.

F***in' tattle-tales. :-/ Go on! Run to your mommy! :-P You know people, if you can't handle what's said on-line, how are you going to handle the real world. My report button is my foot in your ass.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 23, 2009 @ 2:16 a.m.

(#189) Pete, as always I get a laugh from you, but I gotta say, the foot in the ass doesn't work too well with spammers. For that you need a bot.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 23, 2009 @ 2:13 a.m.

(#188) OK, you're right about that. There is such a thing as reporting harassing behavior and compiling evidence against the harasser in the hope that the administrator(s) will take action -- e.g., kick the other person off. (Thanks for getting back on that.) However, I dare say this was not the case. The comments in question were part of the skirmish that took place today and are still up. The admins didn't seem to think they were deletable and didn't otherwise take action. Yet.

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PistolPete Nov. 23, 2009 @ 2:21 a.m.

Very true russl. Although, in the real world, I'd like to put my foot in the ass of spammers aka solicitors. Unfortunetely, the authorities might frown upon me kicking the s*** out of Mormons, realtors, crewers(newspaper or magazine sellers) or anyone of that nature. I try and pick and my battles in life wisely, or at least that's what the system has taught me, and a simple, "No thanks" easily suffices. Bu if I was God, boy howdy let me tell you. A shotgun to the face every now and then might keep the solicitors away for awhile. :-D

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CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 2:34 a.m.

190 -- You can report, that doesn't mean admin will do anything about it. :)

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Russ Lewis Nov. 23, 2009 @ 2:52 a.m.

True, but that doesn't mean admin is lazy (though maybe they are); it might mean they disagree, or maybe the flagged material just doesn't rise to the level of deletability. Or maybe the person reporting is the one harassing the other, and the admins told the reporter to go get hosed.

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CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 3:03 a.m.

Of course, I never said admin is lazy, you are just making a general statement separate from my comments.

Speaking for myself, I have no idea how admin operates on this site. From what I've seen of it, not a happy camper in terms of administration. From what I know of it, they do not give a whit about my opinions.

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SDaniels Nov. 23, 2009 @ 3:18 a.m.

Pete wrote: "refried could claim harassment on CuddleFish because she follows him from topic to topic like that bitch in Fatal Attraction."

I could have done the same with Josh Board, then? His three-pronged attack included:

  1. mischaracterization/misportrayal of me in his actual Crasher column (not as serious as the following):

  2. constant misstatement of my political/philosophical views in random threads, as he systematically tried (and failed) to intimidate and discourage me from remaining on the Reader Web site. Months later, I'm still here, and he is STILL writing false comments about me, albeit at a lower frequency. This also included distorted, inaccurate reportage of our private, off the record conversations. (I'd be interested in knowing how Board is able to get away repeatedly with violating this point of honor among journalists--oh wait, I know--he isn't really a journalist)

3....and harrassment on private email. This eventually stopped, incidentally, just as I decided to write the Reader and complain about it.

Russl, I know how you feel about flagging comments, and we've had some philosophical differences. It might please you to know that I flagged my very first comment recently. Of course, I immediately told the person to his physical face that I did so, and why--private information about someone revealed. That's how I roll ;) However, no matter how racist or sexist the comment, for example (and lawd knows we've had a LOT of both lately), I have decided that the only exception to my non-flagging rule is damaging, off the record information about someone.

I've yet to flag any post written about me, but if it falls under that latter category, I certainly will flag/report it.

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Russ Lewis Nov. 23, 2009 @ 3:52 a.m.

Good for you for standing your ground. I might add though, If you need to flag, flag. And as a friend of mine puts it, There's a special place in hell for people who forward e-mail.

Tweaker shift is over. See you tomorrow.

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JF Nov. 23, 2009 @ 7:03 a.m.

SDFD has been sued, lost, and entered into a consent decree-and you know that JF, stop playing games.

You said that current SDFD hiring is affected by a consent decree. Go ahead and let us know the details.

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CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 9:10 a.m.

For JF:

Women have made greater gains in San Diego than in many other cities, officials said, partly because of a 1974 consent decree that required the Fire-Rescue Department to recruit women and minorities. The 10-year decree was the result of a lawsuit filed by five female firefighters who said they were wrongly fired in the last weeks of their academy training in the early 1970s.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E3DA133FF930A15752C0A9609C8B63

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CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 10:01 a.m.

JF, I followed that discussion very closely. SurfPuppy never claimed that there was a consent decree within the last twenty years, YOU were the one who added that condition. And as I recall, he thanked you for admitting that there had been one at all.

SurfPuppy's larger point was that the SDFD hired based on cronyism, etc., and that the consent decree would not have been necessary if that wasn't the case. Further, the consent decree expired after ten years, therefore the system may have reverted to the sort of preferential system SurfPuppy alluded to in his posts.

That was my take, but I can't speak for SurfPuppy, and I am not that knowledgeable about the facts in the case. I'm not an attorney, I don't even play one on television. :)

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JF Nov. 23, 2009 @ 12:41 p.m.

Cuddle, I'm well aware that Johnny never claimed there was a consent decree in the last 20 years. He can't. There wasn't one, as you pointed out.

He's trying to make an angry point about current hiring practices by using evidence from 35 yeas ago. My point is simply that he's full of crap and current hiring practices are much different. SDFD has the highest percentage of women of any major FD in the country.

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JF Nov. 23, 2009 @ 12:43 p.m.

LOL...I didn't theaten you or anyone else funny boy

OK, so the phrase, "You're next" wasn't a threat?

0

SDaniels Nov. 23, 2009 @ 12:52 p.m.

Cuddle, great points--actually, great points made by all, though this topic isn't exactly my cup of tea. The phrase "you're next" is what Bauder uses, when he isn't saying "you're up." JF, could you be mistaking the intent here? Peace, all.

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CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 1:07 p.m.

Okay, then maybe we can put this argument to rest.

JF, you seem to be pretty familiar with the hiring practices of the SDFD. Can you state for an absolute fact that no one in the department was hired other than strictly via objective standards and testing? That in no case was anyone in the last twenty (20) years hired because they knew someone in the department?

0

or Nov. 23, 2009 @ 3:19 p.m.

CuddleFish, I really don't care to get into this "discussion" on SDPD/FD hiring practices, mainly because I really don't give a damn, but I do feel compelled to interject a comment. I agree that surfpuppy hasn't refered to any hirings due to a consent decree that has occured to in the last 20-25 yrs. However, he has refered to hirings made in that time period because of the original consent decree. If you care to check, you would find that in several posts, usually while sparing with JF, he has listed his 4 "reasons" individuals are hired. Numbers 1,2 and 3 are usually friends, family and former military. Number 4 invariably refers to those hired as a result of the civil rights lawsuit and the resultant consent decree for engaging in the practice of the hiring of friends and family. I beleive this was used as recently within the last couple of weeks. And that is in fact saying that the only people that are currently being hired who aren't "family, friends, military," are being hired not for their merits, but because a long since dead civil rights issue. Just wanted to throw my opinion in, for what it's worth.

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CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 3:29 p.m.

205 --

I tend to care since these are my tax dollars, and as a matter of social justice. As I said, I followed the argument quite closely, but didn't care to interject especially after it turned into a p*ssing contest.

No one has actually refuted SurfPuppy's argument based on any data that I've seen, and it would not surprise me that his representation is fairly accurate. Friends and family probably do have a leg up, and military do get preference in most government hiring. Beyond that, it wouldn't surprise me that people are hired on some sort of affirmative action basis, whether express or implied. It would be silly to pretend otherwise.

I am waiting for JF's reply to prove SurfPuppy and myself wrong.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 23, 2009 @ 3:52 p.m.

(#147) Busted.

P.S.: Be sure to flag this, Surf Puppy 619, Esq.

By russl

No one "busted" anyone you idiot!

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 23, 2009 @ 3:56 p.m.

"But somebody tell me why else someone would report a comment other than to have it removed."

His absence from this discussion is tell-tale. Russ, when you get a guy down and into a choke-hold, you let him up. He tapped out. I want to believe he would do the same for you.

By refriedgringo

Gringo-it was 2 AM, I was in bed.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 23, 2009 @ 3:59 p.m.

Well, Gringo, I think he demonstrated that he was perfectly willing to lie about others, lie (I'd call it) about himself, falsely accuse strangers, and evade evade evade when someone confronted him on it. I realize that the Internet was invented for libeling other people anonymously, but I still don't care for being maligned, even by a stranger. Come to think of it, nobody does.

By russl

You are a raging IDIOT.

The ONLY person LYING here is YOU.

Like I said, you want some of this, bring it on loser. You are a GED apologist for GED educated firewhiners, like JF, who are ripping this city off-about to force it into BK.

Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it loser;

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/articles/2009/11/20/government/215committee112009.txt

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 23, 2009 @ 4:03 p.m.

However, I dare say this was not the case. The comments in question were part of the skirmish that took place today and are still up. The admins didn't seem to think they were deletable and didn't otherwise take action. Yet.

By russl

THEN WHY were you crying that your posts were removed???????????????????????????????????

Looks like somthing was "deletable" for YOUR TOS violations.

And why would ANYONE be up at 2AM posting here?????? Don't you have a real job????

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 23, 2009 @ 4:06 p.m.

You said that current SDFD hiring is affected by a consent decree. Go ahead and let us know the details.

By JF

I never said that-I said every major metro PD and FD in this state has been sued, lost, and entered into a consenct decree over hiring practices-try to read what I post instead of telling your ofter repeated whoppers.

And when SD files BK, as the Voice of San Diego website reported-i am trhowing a party when you lsoe your [email protected] scam.

0

realnews Nov. 23, 2009 @ 4:17 p.m.

Did I read too fast? Where's the reference of Kincaide's lawsuits.

Multiple lawsuits for business and kinky reasons.

He creeps me out.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 23, 2009 @ 4:21 p.m.

JF, you seem to be pretty familiar with the hiring practices of the SDFD. Can you state for an absolute fact that no one in the department was hired other than strictly via objective standards and testing? That in no case was anyone in the last twenty (20) years hired because they knew someone in the department?

By CuddleFish

Please-of course JF cannot state that.

The majority of employees hired in the PD/FD and ALL other high paying jobs are connected in, usually in this order;

1- Family (Hi JF!!!),

2- Friends,

3- Military workfare and

4- Civil rights lawsuit consent decree hires for engaging in 1 & 2 above.

Now, a small % will get in on merit-but it is very small. When there are 1,000 applicants for every ONE single ff job your odds are very high against being hired, but when there are 10 FF openings, and 10K applicants, and 6 or 7 of those openings are spoken for through nepotism/cronyism/lawsuits-then the odds go to 1 in 3,000.

LAPD just hired a new cheif, and somehow his entire family was hired at LAPD, his son, his daughter, his father, all LAPD....now either these people are some of the best applicants the world has ever seen, or there is rampant nepotism in these jobs.

Please go look at the website usajobs.com, they list all the jobs for the federal gov, and I know many people who have applied using it-not one has even had an interview-because 99.9% of these jobs are filled beofre they post the ad;

0

CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 4:30 p.m.

Gotta say, I've been hired by the government four times, twice was based on who I knew, twice was on merit and test scores.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 23, 2009 @ 4:30 p.m.

Numbers 1,2 and 3 are usually friends, family and former military. Number 4 invariably refers to those hired as a result of the civil rights lawsuit and the resultant consent decree for engaging in the practice of the hiring of friends and family. I beleive this was used as recently within the last couple of weeks. And that is in fact saying that the only people that are currently being hired who aren't "family, friends, military," are being hired not for their merits, but because a long since dead civil rights issue. Just wanted to throw my opinion in, for what it's worth.

By occumsrazor

OCC, the lawsuit consent decree is over, but make no mistake about it-gov agencies hire not only a % of applicants to look like the people they represent, but hire a higher %/number, many times because minorities can be discriminated against in the private sector for any number of reasons/ This is a way to counter balance that issue. I have no problem with giving under represented minorities extra points in applyig for gov jobs, just as long as it is not a super qualifying advantage, and they are indeed underrepresented and have had a tough life (Bill Cosby's son/daughter do not qualify IMO).

So even though the civil rights issue was legally over, today many gov agencies still use a quota system to some degree to fill jobs-and as long as it is not a super quota I have no problem with it.

But I do care when unqualified applicants get hired over much better, and more qualified applicants, based on neptism/cronyism.

Please Google "Alex Fagan Jr" and read up on that case for a good example.

OK, I am through responding to this thread, forever.

If you do not see me posting in this thread again, it is not b/c I have tossed in the towl, I am just tired of beating russl up for the last 36 hours.

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SurfPuppy619 Nov. 23, 2009 @ 4:34 p.m.

Gotta say, I've been hired by the government four times, twice was based on who I knew, twice was on merit and test scores.

By CuddleFish

What were the positions????

The thing is, in FD/PD hiring the test used to get you in, the one that counts, is the "oral interview" where 80-90% of those taking this "oral interview" test fail-and it is 100% subjective-that is why SDFD (all FD/PD) can get away with nepotism and cronyism in the "tests". If the test were a written, making it an objective test, they would nto be able to do that.

Opps, this is my last post!

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JF Nov. 23, 2009 @ 4:46 p.m.

Opps, this is my last post!

Promise?

Cuddle, there's no way for me to prove what you're asking, just as there's no way for Johnny to prove what he's claiming. That's why I picked the last of his four claims to disprove his thesis.

Johnny claims that the only unbiased hiring process would be to solely use a written test. I guess he's never heard of a municipality being sued for cultural bias in a written test. That's why we have interviews in the first place. The current system is court tested to be as fair as possible.

0

SurfPuppy619 Nov. 23, 2009 @ 6:04 p.m.

Johnny claims that the only unbiased hiring process would be to solely use a written test. I guess he's never heard of a municipality being sued for cultural bias in a written test. That's why we have interviews in the first place. The current system is court tested to be as fair as possible.

By JF

The resident trough freeder with more of his nonsense comments.

Yes, I am sure there are THOUSANDS of written FF tests that are given on pure objectivity and have been "sued for cultural bias". LOL....hey Pinnichio, don't look now but your nose is growing again. That whopper can go right up there with your bogus claism that firewhiners die 5 years after retiring!

Of course if FD's like San Diego were NEVER successfully sued for engaging in cronyism and nepotism hiring there would be no need for that type of objective testing.

You are such a mental moron that a GED is above your level of intelligence.

The system is a crock, so losers like JF can get connected in.

End of story.

Oh, and no I do not promixe this will be my last post.

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JF Nov. 23, 2009 @ 8:09 p.m.

JF, could you be mistaking the intent here?

SD, I only posted part of Johnny's email out of respect for his privacy.

Here's part of tonight's email, "That is what I mean by "you're next". That is not a threat- it is a promise-and if you want to try me then go ahead and see what happens."

I don't think I'm mis-interpreting that.

Johnny seems to think I'm going to post personal info about him. First, I'm not going to do that. Shou1d I by some quirk of fate learn his identity, I certainly wouldn't post it here. But it does make me wonder what he's got to hide. Maybe he's still got a fever. Second, that's pretty hypocritical from a guy who tried to out me as "Jim Foster". Not once, but several times.

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CuddleFish Nov. 23, 2009 @ 10:26 p.m.

Okay, listen, guys. This is just the Reader forum. Nothing is going to change from what we say here.

You are all intelligent and fierce debaters. But you've made your points several times over now and I think we all get it. Can we call it a draw since neither side is going to convince the other side they are right?

Thanks. :)

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SDaniels Nov. 24, 2009 @ 12:54 a.m.

re: #219: You're right, JF. I misunderstood the context, and it clearly infers threat. However, though it is execrable that SurfP would write such a message, you don't seriously feel threatened, do you? It sounds like bravado, very childish. I am disappointed in the Puppy, who by definition should remain playful. At any rate, you guys have been sparring forever, with often hilari-mouse results for the reader of Bauder's columns--including me, long before I decided to contribute to the site myself. I sincerely hope you all continue the debates--without needless threats, identity exposure, or hard feelings.

re: #220: Ditto, Cuddle. Or as someone said, "A+." ;)

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JF Nov. 24, 2009 @ 6:37 a.m.

Can we call it a draw since neither side is going to convince the other side they are right?

Cuddle, I've long said on these forums that I really don't care if Johnny doesn't like my organization or compensation. If he didn't feel compelled to tell tall tales, I wouldn't be replying to him at all. Actually, he and I agree on quite a few things politically.

SD, I've noticed a much more angry note in Johnny's writing lately. He seems to be getting more and more spun up. Now the threatening emails have started. We don't know where that escalation will stop. Perhaps he still has a fever.

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CuddleFish Nov. 24, 2009 @ 10:01 a.m.

Y'all want to go on instigating and instigating, right on.

Me personally, I got better things to do.

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or Nov. 24, 2009 @ 8:37 p.m.

206

cuddlefish, perhaps you misconstrued my "I don't give a damn". I meant I don't give a damn about the arguement these two are having. Why anyone would let something written by an anonymous poster, a complete stranger, bother them, is beyond me. I can appreciate your concern over how your tax dollars are spent and also social justice, but you have to keep a few things in mind. First, regardless of which "class" these hires come from, they are all getting paid basically the same. It's not a matter of how much, just who. And since the "how much" is determined by the contracts negotiated between the union and the city, well let's just say while you may care about how your tax dollars are spent, in this case you really don't have any say in the matter. And as for "social justice", well let's just say that in civil service, it really doesn't exist.

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CuddleFish Nov. 24, 2009 @ 8:53 p.m.

Can that now be the last word, puh-leeeeeeze????

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or Nov. 24, 2009 @ 9:08 p.m.

Re # 213 Surfpuppy, You do realize that the LA city council didn't just hire Chief Beck, don't you? He has been with LAPD since 1975. His father retired from the LAPD(as an asst chief) in the early 80's(I guess except for his age, he would be extremely qualified). His wife is a retired sheriff's deputy. His daughter graduated from the police academy 3 or 4 yrs ago; I think Beck was a captain at Rampart at the time. And his son isn't on the LAPD; he is still in the academy. It's not as if the LA city council just hired him and then he got his whole family jobs, which is exactly how you tried to make it seem. So one has to wonder, why is that? Why not at least know some of the facts when you post something?

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CuddleFish Nov. 24, 2009 @ 9:17 p.m.

Guess not. Okay.

Let me know when the children are done fighting over the same toy, so we can change their nappies and put them down with their bottles.

:)

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SDaniels Nov. 26, 2009 @ 2:07 a.m.

Isn't it better to burn it out rather than let it faaade? ;)

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PistolPete Nov. 26, 2009 @ 2:41 a.m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEA5IWnUYkY&feature=related

Yes, they ARE different. I don't give a motherf what ANY self-proclaimed rockologist has to fing opine. Two totally different songs.

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Origami_Astronaught Nov. 27, 2009 @ 12:09 a.m.

Stunning analysis, PikeSlice. Even now, a series of Kinkade paintings and snowglobes garnish my mother's living room, adorably leering in truer-than-life pastels. Gid yip.

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SDaniels Nov. 27, 2009 @ 12:24 a.m.

re: #231: Questions for Pete:

Are you responding to another post somewhere here? And why did you post a link of that other guy instead of Neil, the man himself? I'm confused. Why are you saying there are two separate songs? I have a complete Neil Young collection, with only one version...

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PistolPete Nov. 27, 2009 @ 5:45 a.m.

SD-The song in question was a wry stab at humor regarding post above mine. The reason I posted the other guy instead on Neil Young was that I couldn't find a YT video of Neil Young singing the acoustic version of that song. Yes, you read that right. There ARE two versions of essentially the same song. One acoustic. One not acoustic. This argument regarding Hey, Hey, My, My/My, My, Hey, Hey has been brewing for years. I've heard every self-proclaimed rockologist say that they're the exact same song but if you listen them through two different speakers at the same time, they're clearly not. The acoustic/non-acoustic difference is only one subtle nuance. Neil has a way of truly f***ing with the rock world. This is but one.

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PistolPete Nov. 27, 2009 @ 5:57 a.m.

Here are the Wiki pages regarding these two songs...

Album page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust_Never_Sleeps

My, My, Hey, Hey(Out of the Blue) Hey, Hey, My, My(Into the Black) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_My,Hey_Hey(Out_of_the_Blue)

Both song links take you to the same Wiki page.

The lyrics are different as well:

Hey, Hey, My, My: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/n/neil+young/hey+hey+my+my_10191111.html

My, My, Hey, Hey: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/n/neil+young/my+my+hey+hey_10190949.html

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skennerl Nov. 27, 2009 @ 6:26 a.m.

Have just scrolled past 90% of the comments because I wanted to say how interesting I found the article - so much so that I had to google Thomas Kinkade to see what the fuss was about. I loved the comment from Joan Didion - "the picture is rendered in slightly surreal pastel and with such insistent coziness as to seem actually sinister, suggestive of a trap designed to attract Hansel and Gretel. Reminded me of Rocky Horror..."There's a light...over at the Frankenstein's place," (or words to that effect).

So I checked out Kinkade - yeah generally pukable especially the disney stuff, but it is clear that he has a unique style. You can look at a painting and say "That's a Kinkade."

Apart from Pollock - who everyone in the world is aware of - who are some good US artists at the moment?

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skennerl Nov. 27, 2009 @ 6:47 a.m.

Actually - have looked at more Kinkade, and more and more. No way has he done all that work by himself - he has staff working for him. Must have a 'system'. Very commercial.

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SurfPuppy619 Dec. 17, 2009 @ 3:21 p.m.

You do realize that the LA city council didn't just hire Chief Beck, don't you? He has been with LAPD since 1975. His father retired from the LAPD(as an asst chief) in the early 80's(I guess except for his age, he would be extremely qualified). His wife is a retired sheriff's deputy. His daughter graduated from the police academy 3 or 4 yrs ago; I think Beck was a captain at Rampart at the time. And his son isn't on the LAPD; he is still in the academy. It's not as if the LA city council just hired him and then he got his whole family jobs, which is exactly how you tried to make it seem. So one has to wonder, why is that? Why not at least know some of the facts when you post something? ================

And your point is what???

They were ALL hired b/c they KNEW SOMEONE-it is called nepotism, which is how gov are filled.

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SurfPuppy619 Dec. 17, 2009 @ 3:23 p.m.

SD, I've noticed a much more angry note in Johnny's writing lately. He seems to be getting more and more spun up. Now the threatening emails have started.

No threats at all, I made a simple statement to you, and I will follow through. You know it, and I know it.

Like I said, you want to play-try me.

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JF Dec. 17, 2009 @ 5:15 p.m.

Like I said, you want to play-try me.

What the hell are you talking about? And why are you posting about this a month later?

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