Yesterday I get on my bike and cruise over to a friends house on the way to Earth Day. I get off my bike and look up at the sky and immediately am astounded by the enormity of these white lines being drawn in the sky by jets. My friend comes out and I point up and say one word "chemtrails". She says "I know they have been doing it all morning".

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Being that this friend is the person who educated me about chemtrails a few years ago saying they were rampant in Portland Oregon where she lived, I knew that she would be aware of the peculiarness of the scene.

Like most people I had never really paid much attention to the skies or the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail. I learned that a contrail is essentially just a vapor trail left by a jet that disappears within a few minutes.

A chemtrail, on the other hand, initially looks like a contrail but lasts for hours and rather than disappear it spreads out and creates a white haze. The jets that create chemtrails fly at extremely high altitudes and are virtually impossible to identify (ie as commercial or whatever) making it difficult to track down where it is coming from. Many have speculated that chemtrails are being done to combat global warming and for weather modification.

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A number of patents are out there that provide the technology to synthetically manufacture chem-clouds to effectively block the sun. One patent obtained by National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) US3813875 uses barium to create ion clouds in the upper atmosphere. In 1991, Hughes Aircraft (they are right here in SD) obtained patent US5003186, to seed greenhouse gas layers with tiny particles which include "oxides of metal , e.g., aluminum oxide."

That's right...combating global warming with aluminum oxide. Sounds great right?.....except the part where we are getting doused by aluminum oxide. Do these engineers get that it eventually comes down from the sky?

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Many countries like China and Russia readily admit to spraying chemicals in the sky to make it rain. Read this story in USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-29-china-rain_x.htm

"China has the largest rainmaking (operation) in the world," ahead of Russia and Israel, says professor Wang Guanghe, a 20-year rainmaking veteran at China's Meteorological Sciences Academy.... Weather manipulation is an enthusiastic past-time for Beijing, possibly because so many of the country's Communist leaders are engineers. ...The forecast calls for more rain. China's five-year plan urges an increase in man-made precipitation.

China began cloud-busting in 1958. Now "it is increasing every year," says Wang, who cites the drought plaguing northern China as the main reason to fire rain-inducing shells or soar into the skies in cloud-seeding airplanes."

This is why it is interesting to me that the idea of chemtrails in the US would even fall under the category of "conspiracy". The technology has existed for quite some time and has been used and is being used in other countries. In a communist country open weather modification is easy but here in our pseudo-democracy this sort of proposal would face enormous public outcry from anyone exposed to the chemicals. To me it just seems like par for the course. All the big corporations know if you want to get something done you have to circumvent public knowledge.

Even the Obama administration just announced on April 10th that they are open to the possibility of “geo-engineering” the earth’s climate to counter global warming by “shooting pollution particles into the upper atmosphere to reflect the sun’s rays.”

So even if it is not happening now, it sounds like the government is opening the door to this pandora's box of weather modification using some questionable chemicals.

When people concerned about chemtrails had the particulate matter tested in the Lousiana news story they found that it contained large amounts of barium and aluminum and was making people sick. There are several local news stations across the country that have covered the story and have tested the contents. And local news is typically the last media to propagate any kind of conspiracy. Check out this news story in Louisiana.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFpF-c...

And what is a "conspiracy" really? Isn't it just 2 or more people that got together and agreed to help each other do something that benefited themselves at the expense of others. Isn't that exactly what happened with the banks, the big corporations, Madoff, the government? Isn't it the rule and not the exception? So people can throw the "conspiracy" word around if they want, but it just seems very 2002 to me. Aren't we passed that now?

And aren't we passed that whole thing of accepting the line "we (the government) are doing things for your own good (like fighting global warming or making it rain) that you don't need to know about"---Remember Cheney telling us the War would be "fought in the shadows". I mean that whole mindset ended when Dick Cheney was wheeled out of the White House in his wheelchair.

Alot is unclear, but what is clear is that these lines are man-made and they contain "something" and we deserve to know exactly what it is. If its legit then tell us. Explain it to us. Because as of yet, not a single scientist has come forward to explain to us what these trails are. They just say "I don't know. I cant explain it" and then they try and connect it to a contrail but they cannot explain why they do not disappear.

Tell us what this is, who is doing it and why.

Here's a good Discovery Channel investigation... http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1a4bt_chemtrails-exposed-on-discovery-cha_shortfilms

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http://okhereisthesituation.com/2011/12/15/situation-chemtrails/

Comments

lallaw April 20, 2009 @ 4:58 p.m.

I knew someone, an otherwise intelligent-appearing, articulate, sophisticated senior lady, who insisted that contrails was the way the government spied on us. That these trails somehow picked up conversations and conducted surveillance. Heavy sigh. She even whispered it as though it was a well-known but dangerous fact to posses. So I am one of those who roll their eyes over most anything that smacks of "conspiracy."

You indicate that the particulate matter of the contrails has been studied. Since these trails are left at extremely high altitudes, just how is it collected in order to ensure the integrity of the specimen? Further, how do they ensure that no chemical changes occur to the specimen which are the result of the contrail exhaust being exposed to the atmosphere, sunlight, radiation, and other chemicals already present? Why not post a link to some of these studies or research you write about which supports your concern. I'd like to read them.

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historymatters April 20, 2009 @ 7:47 p.m.

Look I said nothing about it being how the government is spying on us...I am just asking for an explanation. It doesnt sound like you have one. Remember the China Olympics...they were doing this exact same thing to do cloud seeding to cause it to rain. It is not a stretch to think that if we had the technology to make it rain that we would not use it in this drought. I will be curious to see if it rains tonight or tomorrow. I'm just saying if they are using technology to make it rain or combat global warming we need to know what it is.

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historymatters April 20, 2009 @ 8:02 p.m.

Additionally I listed the patent numbers of the people/companies that have patents on the cloud seeding technology. So its not just some sci fi fantasy. The technology exists.

I referenced the Louisiana local news story which shows the lab tests contain very large amounts of barium and aluminum and even arsenic. (Granted I know it wasn't a bunch of scientists out collecting samples, but it is enough to warrant more questions).

The technology exists and is being used on a HUGE scale in China...USA Today Reports this prior to the Olympics... China has the largest rainmaking (operation) in the world," ahead of Russia and Israel, says professor Wang Guanghe, a 20-year rainmaking veteran at China's Meteorological Sciences Academy. "Each province reports results to us of between 10% to 25%" additional rainfall.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-06-29-china-rain_x.htm

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VanLePort April 20, 2009 @ 9:39 p.m.

The point is somebody is spraying something up there and there are more and more people who would like to know what it is. I have been noticing a lot of this spraying over the last year. I have watched very closely and there is definitely something "not right" about it. It is obvious that it is not a contrail. I suggest before dismissing chemtrails as a wacky conspiracy, just observe the sky for a couple of months and then see what you think about it then. Good work historymatters.

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Looking_Up April 20, 2009 @ 10:07 p.m.

I want to thank you for writing this article. We all saw this insanity on Sunday morning. On the Internet I read there were reports of chemtrails over Los Angeles, Oceanside, Del Mar, Long Beach, etc. Everybody was asking the same questions as you. Why were there so many contrails/chemtrails appearing in the skies over San Diego? It all seems to have started right around 9 am. You seem to be the only media person on record talking about this. There was also a very odd v-shaped white object (seen by me) flying over Banker's Hill between 11:24 am - 11:40 am. I kind of doubted myself a bit, but then I found on the Mufon Internet site that another person also saw this object, but near LAX (a video is posted there - it is identical to what I saw here in Banker's Hill).

The witness wrote:

"...Then I woke up this morning at 9:00 AM I walked out on my patio and to my surprise I noticed that there were so many chemtrails! Then I noticed the moon had a bright object next to it that was very large to the naked eye and it was not moving. I ran and got my camera and zoomed in to find what looks like a cigar shaped space ship of some kind! When I zoomed in it shape shifted and then It starts moving off to the distance to the west of LAX and then disappears in a poof. But I did see it flying very far off into the distance at the end clip I recorded. Then it came back into site again and I recorded it for about 10 min and it was changing its shape very slowly. It still may be there now."

I think a healthy discussion is a good start. I'm glad you were willing to get the ball started.

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historymatters April 20, 2009 @ 10:16 p.m.

Thank you VLP and LookingUp. It seems like the word conspiracy was invented to stop people from asking questions. Scott McClellan's (former WH Press Sec's) biggest criticism of the media w/ the Bush admin was that "NO ONE ASKED THE RIGHT QUESTIONS". My philosophy is that I believe everything and nothing and question everything. Eventually if we are brave enough to ask we will move towards an understanding of events and we will work together towards solutions. I just thought we were beyond the word "conspiracy" at this point in light of the copius amounts of lies and true conspiracies that have been discovered aka banks, the investment bankers, and the biggest of all...the Iraq War. I mean the entire country was tricked into going to war over a lie. So if Lallaw wants to quell the right to question chemtrails in the sky....I think Bernard Madoff has alot of securities that he would love to sell him. :)

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sheryl555 April 21, 2009 @ 11:03 a.m.

I am from the Central Coast of California and we are have some very heavy chemtrail spraying right now. TODAY as I write this. We had several spray free days last week and now they are blitzing. I have been observing this for several months and my neighbors tell me they have been seeing this for much longer. I mean we are being blanketied with the stuff, whatever it is and the planes are traversing the skies all day and night. This is very real and you are right, we need to be told what it is they are spraying. We have the absolute right to know. Anyone who denies this is.... well...in denial. This is not a conspiracy it is a reality.

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historymatters April 21, 2009 @ 5:55 p.m.

Lallaw: Did you not notice the question mark at the end of the title????? I am not trying to prove anything. I am asking a question. I am asking for answers. Did you not read what I wrote? this is a blog. I am not a newscaster reporting the news. I am a curious and concerned citizen. I did not say we are being gassed by the government. I did not even say what they are doing is insidious. I just said look at these pictures and tell me what this is.

The burden of proof is not on me...it is on whomever is creating these trails. If they are simply vapor trails from commercial jets then we need an explanation of why they are not behaving like vapor trails. Is there a problem w/ jet exhaust? I dont know the answer. I mean you have not even said what you think they are. Do you think they are conventional vapor trails? If so I would like to see some documentation that shows a vapor trail can behave this way (spread out and turn into a white haze). I mean I am totally fine if that is the answer. I just want an answer from someone w/ some accredidation that will explain these.

I dont know what this is. Maybe its an unusual amount of jet exhaust, maybe it is incompetence, maybe its corruption. Who knows. thats the point. We dont know.

I mean Jeez L I am not trying to win a Pulitzer prize. I don't even do this as a hobby. My passion is architecture. I write because I feel compelled to start a dialogue on things the media is not talking about. If you look at my blogs they are primarily dedicated to developer corruption. But in following that line of thinking I have stumbled upon some big unanswered questions.

I wrote about how the stimulus Bill was a cloaked bailout for developers and shortly after a major story came out showing a big Florida homebuilder under Federal investigation applying for the funds. I wrote about how the stim bill was shoved through w/o anyone reading it or knowing what was in it but the lobbyists the day it passed and we saw that a few months later the media finally caught on to that fact and we saw how it contained huge loopholes for bonuses. I'm not saying this to brag, but to say if a regular citizen like me can see all this why the hell can't the media?

I don't want to spend all this time blogging. believe me. I have tests to study for, but like I said I feel compelled because the media is totally asleep at the wheel. But I will happily support anyone that wants to spend time on these topics and I do. My blogs also make a huge point to refer people to other citizens that are asking questions or making videos like my last blog on the elderly being evicted from their mobile home park. My goal is just to get the word out.

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historymatters April 21, 2009 @ 6:08 p.m.

And as a side note lets just consider historic precedent for people being exposed to chemicals that were harmful:

Is it a good thing that no one asked any questions back in the 60s and 70s when they were applying asbestos to buildings? Did those people w/ cancer now think I'm sure if this stuff was harmful someone would tell me.

How about the people that started smoking when the tobacco companies insisted smoking was totally unharmful?

How about the days (not that long ago) when we used leaded gas?

How about when we were using leaded paint?

How about the people sprayed w/ agent orange?

Are all these people thinking...wow Im sure glad I kept my mouth shut since I didnt have an arsenal of scientific evidence to show these may be harmful?

Dont be afraid to ask questions. the worst that can happen is you may be wrong.

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Looking_Up April 21, 2009 @ 9:34 p.m.

I want to state for the record that I do NOT know the individual hosting this blog. I didn’t even know that there is an online version of the Reader magazine. I found the blog because I did a Google search on the words “San Diego” & “Chemtrail”. I did the Google search because on Sunday April 19th, the skies over my home were choked in crisscrossed contrails, right over the head of my little boy. I set up an account because this was the only way I could respond to the article about what I witnessed.

I found this website the same way that I found a Youtube post from a weather buff that videotaped a massive several hundred mile long condensation trail contrail that he spotted on a GEOS satellite view of San Diego on the morning of April 19th. Is he also part of historymatter’s inner circle of chemtrail community service agents? I’m sorry lallaw, you are sounding a bit paranoid yourself. There is some real science, both pro and con supporting both sides of the argument that would make a wonderful discussion here. There was an interesting study done in the days after 9/11, when all the flights were grounded and the skies were clear of contrails, that shows there was actually an effect on the day and night air temperatures. Another study shows that there has been an increase of Barium and Aluminum in areas of northern California water supplies, both of which are common elements of cloud seeding chemicals. I was also surprised to read that known contrails CAN hang in the sky for long periods of time. A lot of what I read today is on www.californiaskywatch.com and is worth checking out. Pay special attention to the NOAA 2007 & 2008 Weather Modifications Programs. There is also a good two part investigation done by KNBC4 News in Los Angeles.

I personally believe what we saw on Sunday was by design. I also know that I don’t like it. In our house we eat organic and filter our tap water, but when we leave our house I can’t control that. The fact that the powers that be are silent on this is what concerns me. When I lived in New York City they told us the air was fine to breathe after the towers collapsed. It turns out that the EPA was pressured to edit their report and told us an outright lie. Now the workers and volunteers are sick and dying. This second tragedy didn’t have to happen.

I will end with this. Go check out the Youtube clip that I found posted by Puzzlecraft (he is a wooden puzzle maker).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHsZWOOv-l0

That was on Sunday and both yesterday and today in our area; the skies are as clean as a whistle. Same high temps, but not a contrail in sight. Hmmm...

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VanLePort April 21, 2009 @ 9:37 p.m.

lallaw, I am concerned about these chemtrails and, yes, I created an account to add a comment. This is not a fake account created by historymatters. I actually found this blog by Googling "chemtrails" because I had seen a lot of them Saturday or Sunday and I have been wondering why more people are not aware of this phenomenon. The fact that you seem to have made it your mission to personally criticize historymatters is sad for you. Don't you have anything better to do? Look, all he or she is saying (IMHO) is that we should be aware and question what is happening in our skies. You keep asking for "proof?" Buddy, you missed the point. Look in the sky from day to day and you will see the chemtrails. They are not sprayed every day, at least not all over the place. But every week or two there will be a couple of days that they literally cover the sky in some areas over San Diego and you can see the planes leaving these trails. Are you actually denying that they exist? Have you looked? Are you too busy flaming people who blog on the internet to go outside and see? Your mean spirited comments are getting little boring. Seriously, can you let us know if you have actually looked? Have you looked on a day like we had over the weekend where "chemtrails" were left all over the sky? Have you?

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historymatters April 21, 2009 @ 10:54 p.m.

Alright, Thank you guys. That is all I wanted...to encourage people to share their experiences. These are great stories and I hope they continue and I hope people feel comfortable to express concerns.

Good point about the 9/11 workers. Another example of people hurt or even killed by exposure to chemicals. I remember thinking at the time...these workers cleaning this up...Are they REALLY sure this environment is safe? I can't remember if there was asbestos in the buildings but most stuff built in the 60s had asbestos. And I remember being really perplexed that the news wasn't asking that at the time. The media is great at hindsight but they are never on top of things while they are happening and it is probably because of people like lallaw that would ridicule them if they even suggested the environment may not be safe.

We live in this world where you can't question the status quo w/ being shamed and patronized. It should be the opposite.

Thank you again for taking the time to comment.

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puzzlecraft April 21, 2009 @ 10:59 p.m.

I made the video mentioned in post #16 and found this blog via the comment posted on YouTube. As mentioned the video is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHsZWOOv-l0

At the time of the video, it was still quite early, around 7am.

My impression is these condensation trails are just that, condensation. At very high altitudes the ices crystals can propagate quite a ways before eventually dissipating. Some days the temperatures and humidities are excellent for contrail formation and expansion, other days, the contrail immediately evaporate! I'm sure upon investigation that the planes "doing that" were normally scheduled flights, not a sinister plot by evil doers!

I am long time weather observer and can say these "chemtrails" have been around for at least 35 years, more so on the East Coast around the busier flight zones.

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historymatters April 22, 2009 @ 12:18 a.m.

Thats a great video. Anything is possible. I just would really like to see some scientists collect multiple samples and do some testing to put people's minds at ease. It seems like there are enough people concerned about it that a real scientific study would do alot of good. They have already done studies showing how jet fuel is now found in mother's breast milk. Even if its totally legit and non sinister there may still be a problem w/ the amount of chemicals being emitted from these jets.

It just seemed curious that the white haze literally expanded to cover the whole sky. that would be quite dramatic for a vapor trail and what weather conditions would permit that? Sunday was hot and dry? I hear what you are saying and you may be right, I just still have questions. Thanks.

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puzzlecraft April 22, 2009 @ 11:27 a.m.

I have located a picture I took in June of 1977 in Pennsylvania on a day when there were an incredible amount of jet trails in the sky, so many the sky was nearly opaque. YouTube would not post the response I made with a flickr link, so I'm posting it here, see http://www.flickr.com/photos/22501544@N05/3464317013/ go to "all sizes" to see a larger version of the photo.

The contrail shown in the video did continue to expand for a couple hours, perhaps 50-100% wider, before thinning out and disappearing. I've never seen one expand to cover the whole sky.

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factbased April 22, 2009 @ 2:54 p.m.

the author- and all believers in Chemtrails- needs to understand that comments like these "I learned that a contrail is essentially just a vapor trail left by a jet that disappears within a few minutes."

...is simply not accurate.

Some contrails do dissipate in a few minutes- or even seconds...some, however, persist for hours and even days. These persistent contrails have been studied by atmospheric scientists for well over 40 years. "vapor" trail is a bit of a misnomer- contrails are actually ice clinging to particles of soot from burnt jet fuel. They are very similar to cirrus clouds and are often found together.

...a few terms to research for better understanding of "normal" contrail behavior:

supersaturated persistent contrail

contrail cirrus

contrail factor (relates to how each particular engine and even level of thrust for each engine effects contrail formation and persistence)

The theme of most "chemtrail" advocates that "contrails dissipate- chemtrails don't" is simply false...thus an entire theory is in large part based on a false premise.

Even IF "chemtrails" existed you could not tell just by seeing one in the sky...

Lets be clear about a few other things- no sample of a contrail take in situ- directly from the plume- has ever been found to contain anything other than would be expected from burnt jet fuel....and there have been plenty of samples taken by scientists over the past 40 years- around the world. simply look up: in situ contrail sample.

The example the author used of the Louisiana "sample" consisted of somebody putting a jar on the hood of their car for 3 weeks and claiming the contents came from "chemtrails"...do I need to point out the issues with that??

Cloud seeding is practiced in this country as well as China and elsewhere and has been done for a long time- is not clandestine, does not involve the troposphere (where contrails are found) and does not involve long persistent trails. See here for more info:

http://www.weathermod.com/

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magicsfive April 22, 2009 @ 3:27 p.m.

you go, lallaw...;) and don't forget she will most likely threaten to have your comments removed...LMAO

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historymatters April 22, 2009 @ 4:35 p.m.

Factbased: I see you have alot of info, but you are quick to dismiss anything I have said and yet your comments are not siting any facts so how is that "factbased". The only thing you site is a website of a company doing weather modification. Telling people to google words is not siting anything. So lets be careful about framing things as "facts".

Yes it has been discussed and is being done in many places. The question is ...is it being done here? If it is...then it most certainly IS clandestine because no one is admitting to it.

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factbased April 22, 2009 @ 6:27 p.m.

I did not dismiss "anything" you had to say- I simply dismissed the assertion that "contrails dissipate- chemtrails don't"...

The facts are quickly ascertained via a web search on the terms I provided...if you really can't be bothered to do simple research than what is the point of even bringing it up?

If you really must have your hand held- here are some starting points:

http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc%5Fsr/?src=/climate/ipcc/aviation/038.htm

http://tinyurl.com/4qyaww (the original URL was way too long)

That should get you started- If you actually taker a few moments and look up the terms I provided, you will see there are literally 100s of papers written in the last 40yrs by scientists from all over the world detailing the persistence, spreading and cirrus inducing behavior of contrails...Something that is completely ignored by the "chemtrail" crowd.

Not only was the Louisiana sample (it was actually Arkansas but reported in LA) not a "standard scientific sample", it cannot be considered a sample of a contrail AT ALL. To then use it as potential evidence is disingenuous at best and fear mongering at worst. Moreover, the "sample" was incorrectly reported- the levels found were not in any way out of the norm- see here for more details:

http://contrailscience.com/barium-chemtrails/

As for cloud seeding- again- if you do the research you will understand that it takes specific conditions for cloud seeding to even have a remote chance of working (there is still not definitive evidence that it does work despite decades of attempts)- conditions that rarely- if ever- occur in San Diego...and again, the attempts (launching silver iodide via flares) do not take place in the same part of the atmosphere as contrails or result in persisting trails of any kind...so, seeing persisting trails and insinuating they are related to cloud seeding is not a logical assertion.

I am not trying to dismiss your concerns...seeing multiple persistent contrails can be disconcerting when you are not informed...but the ignorance that pervades the "chemtrail" faithful regarding the known, observed behavior of contrails is quite a handicap toward being taken seriously.

Oh...one more thing...the Discovery Channel DID do a show on contrails/"chemtrails"...about 2 years ago I think...you should be able to find it online...unless you need me to look that up for you too :)

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historymatters April 22, 2009 @ 8:25 p.m.

Well all I can say is I genuinely hope you are right. I am not insisting chemicals are being intentionally dropped in the sky for whatever reason. I'm just saying lets not dismiss the possibility too quickly. Lets ask lots and lots of questions and if everything is legit and its just water vapor...then that is awesome. But lets ask tough questions like we did not do when the war was started. I'm not sure I believe its that tough for the tech. to work. I mean the olympics in China were a cut in dry examp. They shut down all the factories and chemtrailed to get it to rain and clean the skies. Thats not conspiracy. It was readily reported and admitted. So I will need more convincing that we cannot make it rain.

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VanLePort April 22, 2009 @ 8:29 p.m.

No chemtrails: Case closed! I sure feel relieved to know the government and militay are 100% honest and do not have any clandestine activities in our skies. I will sleep well tonight. Did I hear the Obama administration recently state they were considering "radical" measures to combat global warming including pupming chemicals into the atmosphere? Talk about conspiracies, man made global warming is a good place to start, man. Anyway... Lallaw, do you always have no-class or are you just feeling a little cross? Go get your gaflavity gashmoygadied, it might help your problem. Giggity.

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itsasmallworld April 22, 2009 @ 8:49 p.m.

The one thing I know for sure is I don't know...

...but I've been thinking about this issue for some time, and here's my point of view. The conversation about global warming and carbon foot prints is partly double speak for these geo-engineering devices that we're seeing in the sky's. I'm in the midwest, and I'll be waiting to see if the trails you witness make it my way in a few days.

I've witnessed massive trails move from here towards the NE this winter, possibly contributing to the ice storms this past winter. I would suggest people watch Horton Hears a Who (yes the children's movie). There are suggestions of satellite based weather modifications in this movie. No doubt if someone could figure out how to alter the weather, they would. I would suggest that we've come a long way from rain dances, and there is no reason to believe that there haven't been advances in this area.

Lallaw's comments remind me of the "9/11 truth" movement. There were numerous people who simply were asking questions about what really happened, but (from my point of view), a small group of people lead that movement into the ground.

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factbased April 22, 2009 @ 9:08 p.m.

Cloud seeding is not the same as purported "chemtrails"...lets be clear about that. Saying they "chemtrailed" to get it to rain is confusing the issue and not accurate. Again, cloud seeding has NOTHING to do with persistent trails in the sky that people point to in fear. China seeded the clouds via ground based rockets that launched iodide flares.

The fact that it rained does not mean it rained because they seeded the clouds...correlation does not equal causation. It was not "cut in (sic) dry" - there is no definitive proof seeding actually works:

http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11857&page=116

Cloud seeding is typically done when there is a very high probability of precipitation to begin with...it is used to enhance the rainfall amounts...see here for a bit more info:

http://www.nawcinc.com/wmfaq.html

China seeded the clouds via ground based rockets that launched iodide flares:

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinajournal/2008/08/09/banned-by-beijing-rain/?mod=googlenews_wsj

So...getting back to the basic premise- "normal" contrails can and do persist, spread and cover the sky in a sheet of cirrus clouds..and any one or website that says contrails dissipate- "chemtrails" don't- is wrong- they are either lying or ignorant.

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magicsfive April 22, 2009 @ 9:47 p.m.

HistoryApparentlyDoesntMatter...LOL awesome...

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historymatters April 22, 2009 @ 10:55 p.m.

Factbased: Chemtrails and cloudseeding are the same in that you cannot cloud seed w/o chemicals. All that the word "chemtrail" means is that you are releasing chemicals. Directly from the USA Today article about China's cloudseeding: Rainmaking from the ground: Shells are fired from anti-aircraft guns or rocket launchers. An alternative is to burn silver iodide on hilltops. Moisture in clouds collects around the chemical particles until it is heavy enough to fall. Rainmaking from the air: Aircraft spray the chemical from beneath their wings or fire chemical flares into clouds. Dry-ice pellets are also used. Planes are the most expensive method of rainmaking but can cover a wider area than ground-based artillery.

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factbased April 23, 2009 @ 8:38 a.m.

History-

Well...if you want to play semantics then even "normal" contrails are "chemtrails" as they release chemicals in their exhaust. Your car is spreading "chemtrails".

However, that is not the thrust of the "chemtrail" theory- "Chemtrails"- as purveyed by the internet herd- is a global, clandestine "spray" campaign of unknown origin and unknown intent (or multiple purposes depending on which website you visit) and is delivered via long lasting trails that spread and cover the sky in a haze...

...this really has nothing to do with traditional cloudseeding via silver iodide flares...as, once again, they do not take place in the troposphere, do not involve long lasting trails that spread and do not occur in clear skies as purported "chemtrails" usually do.

But whatever...

I truly suggest you research a lot more so you can calm your fears and focus on your other issues. Thanks for listening.

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BillyEnt March 25, 2014 @ 8:19 p.m.

Humans are spreading "chemtrails" every time we fart! People need to relax.

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Looking_Up April 23, 2009 @ 9:48 p.m.

On a National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's website they state that "a rough rule for predicting whether contrails will form is if the difference between the temperature and the dewpoint is five degrees C or less"..."The conditions at flight level can change rather abruptly from one location to another as differing conditions are present and changing in the atmosphere, causing contrails to be present over one portion of the sky, and absent in another. When the temperature and dewpoint difference is slightly greater, contrails will form but dissipate as they spread into the less favorable environment."

How does that explain puzzlecraft's several hundred mile long contrail? Were conditions perfect for contrail creation from here to LA on Sunday? If conditions at flight level can change "rather abruptly from one location to another" then why do we see such long continuous contrail lines in the sky?

I've witnessed low level spraying in Pennsylvania. I've seen the same military planes, circling and spraying, circling and spraying. In that case there was no contrail or chemtrail, but they came in so low you could see the actual liquid being sprayed.

On Sunday there was an unusual amount of planes in the air in areas that I've never seen them before. There was a white plane that was completely unidentifiable flying over Banker's Hill. If you were out and about on Sunday, you saw the activity and that is why people are talking about this! I don't belong to the chemtrail crowd or those who think every white plume behind a plane is a sinister plot, but Sunday's contrails appeared organized, deliberate and conducted over a wide area of the state.

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factbased April 24, 2009 @ 8:53 a.m.

LU-

the atmosphere CAN change abruptly...that is why you will see gaps in trails- that is why clouds have gaps in them...but that doesn't mean it always is the case.

The persistence of any given contrail has a lot of variables that will dictate its behavior- a major one is the level of humidity with respect to ice. Ice supersaturation it is called. Ice supersaturated areas can be small pockets or wide swaths covering 100s of miles.

Look up "supersaturated persistent contrail" for more info.

The specific engine of any plane also plays a large role as different engines have different exhaust signatures ( level of particulate matter and temp of output...and this even changes as a planes increase or decrease thrust)

Look up "contrail factor" for more info.

a couple of other sites to check out- NASA as a model for attempting to forecast contrail formation- its admittedly not 100% accurate but worth a look:

http://www-angler.larc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/site/showdoc?docid=33&cmd=latest

Also- at any given moment there are over 5000 planes in the sky in the US...and SoCal is some of the busiest airspace in the World...flight patterns ARE organized- so they do not crash- if conditions are ripe for persistent contrails then they will also look organized- and cross each other- like a grid-

...its always interesting to see just how many planes are in the sky at any given time- and this site allows you do that- check it out:

http://flightaware.com/

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historymatters April 24, 2009 @ 8:25 p.m.

I guess what is so odd to me is the impact that these trails are having just on the aesthetics of our sky. I remember seeing contrails my whole life and being sort of intrigued by how they would be drawn and then disappear w/ not a thought in the world to any subversive or insidious agenda.

but the last few years they have dominated the aesthetics of our sky. that is what is odd to me...that these planes that are 30,000 ft in the sky could have such an impact on what our entire sky looks like...more of an impact than the clouds themselves.

These pics I took are not unusual at all. At least once or twice a month if not more we have days like this. Days that begin w/ a crystal clear blue sky and then end in a white haze and you you can witness the entire thing happen.

A friend of mine lives in Portland. And let me state for the record..she is skeptical of any sort of conspiracy. She is an English teacher---very rational and "fact-based". But in response to my article she sent me this message...

"It was a crystal clear day up here on Saturday, until the chemtrails appeared..the sky was crisscrossed every few yards with them for as far as the eye could see".

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Looking_Up April 24, 2009 @ 11:23 p.m.

Factbased: Thank you for the link to NASA’s Contrail Formation Forecast. I’ve been playing with the (mb) efficiency numbers for April 19th, and I do get some hits off the coast of California for the time period in question. I am well aware of the number of flights here, both civilian and military. A lot of what goes on here – the booms, the shakes and the late night flights are most likely the military. Twice in March and once in April, Ocean County experienced a lot of strange non-earthquake shaking and rattling of their homes, doors and windows. The military denied it was them, but would they really admit to some experimental testing?

Let us not forget that from 1953 to 1963 planes flew through parts of England and dropped huge amounts of zinc cadmium sulphide on their citizens. This substance is known to cause lung cancer and in WWII was thought of as a chemical weapon. For four years in the 1970’s, the US assisted UK scientists and sprayed massive amounts of serratia marcescens bacteria, with an anthrax simulant and phenol. Families living in the area of this test and other tests believe these tests caused miscarriages and that their children suffered birth defects and other learning problems. . In another British test in the 1960’s, a military ship sprayed more than a million people in England with e.coli and bacillus globigii , which mimics anthrax. All of these tests were conducted to asses Britain’s vulnerability to a Russian attack. These secret germ warfare tests were kept covered up for years and only came to light in 2002.

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Looking_Up April 24, 2009 @ 11:26 p.m.

Do these types of military testing sometimes get out of control?

This new Mexican Swine Flu has elements of DNA from the following: avian flu, human flu Type A, human flu Type B, Asian swine flu, and European swine flu. The CDC stated today “Swine flu viruses typically sicken pigs, not humans. Most cases occur when people come in contact with infected pigs or contaminated objects moving from people to pigs. Pigs can catch human and avian or bird flu. When flu viruses from different species infect pigs, they can mix inside the pig and new, mixed viruses can emerge. Pigs can pass mutated viruses back to humans and they can be passed from human to human. Transmission among humans is thought to occur in the same way as seasonal flu - by touching something with flu viruses and then touching their mouth or nose, and through coughing or sneezing.”

Dr. Gil Chavez, director of the Center for Infectious Diseases at the California Department of Public Health has said the following regarding the current swine flu outbreak: “We are watching this very closely. It’s largely a mystery. It’s very unusual whenever you have as many as even six cases (of swine flu), that's very, very rare," Chavez said. "To have that happen in six unrelated instances in California and have none of those individuals having come in contact with each other is very unusual so we are very much trying to stay on top of it," he said.

Still looking up...

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factbased April 25, 2009 @ 8:52 a.m.

no doubt that governments do bad things...and tested and dropped stuff etc...

...but that does not override the fact that there is simply NO evidence of a "spraying" operation via persistent trails- for so very many reasons...

...the first and foremost is that a persistent trail that spreads and covers the sky in a haze is not an anomaly, it is a "normal" behavior of contrails- not all contrails all the time- but has been observed, documented and researched for over 40 years...and thus, seeing a trail doing just that is not evidence of anything. You cannot- as most "chemtrail" believers do- point to to a persistent trail and say its a "chemtrail"! its a "spray" plane...that is simply an illogical assertion that is contrary to the science of contrail formation, behavior and historical precedent.

...and yet, that simple observation is what the entire premise of the "chemtrail" theory is based on.

...there is much more- the logistics, the efficacy of depositing material in the troposphere to effect populations (your England example no doubt was a low level event)- the complete unlikihood of anything in a trail above you falling on you and not drifting for 100s and 1000s of mile- making assertion of effects from trails above highly dubious...and on and on...

There is a lot of concern about persistent contrails and their possible effects on regional climate- they do block the sun and trap some heat...and thus there are a lot of atmospheric scientists around the world studying them...and not one of them are looking up and seeing a "spray" campaign...

look up "contrail cirrus" for more background...

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VanLePort April 25, 2009 @ 10:04 p.m.

factbased, me thinks thy doth protesteth too much...

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Looking_Up April 26, 2009 @ 11:37 a.m.

Perhaps we should just sit back and watch a good movie instead of all this blogging. I mean, all this talk of chemtrails and viruses is making me sick...or was it because I forgot to put on my mask when I went out to the video store? "Toxic Skies" anyone?

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historymatters April 26, 2009 @ 11:30 p.m.

Factbased is approaching it from the assumption that they are not happening and wanting evidence to prove they are aside from the physical. I think that is somewhat dangerous in that we could have said the exact same thing about tabacco. For decades there was "no evidence" to suggest they were harmful and people took that as proof and now they have lung cancer or are hooked up to oxygen tanks.

And there are many many more examples like that. Like the people doing the cleanup at WTC. No evidence at the time to suggest they would get sick and now they are.

Personally I think its just safer to take the hypothesis that it is happening and find solid evidence to disprove it.

I am totally open to it just being water vapor. But for god sakes give us an explanation (and I am addressing the gov) that doesn't have any holes in to say that it is.

If Obama just announced that he is seriously considering shooting chemicals into the air to address global warming...doesnt that suggest that on some level they must have been testing this technology?

Seems alot of people noticed them around earth day. This is an interesting letter to editor from Canada.

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historymatters April 26, 2009 @ 11:39 p.m.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1a4bt_chemtrails-exposed-on-discovery-cha_shortfilms

this lady on this discovery channel episode on chemtrails is great. Used to work for the dept of Agriculture.

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factbased April 27, 2009 @ 8:38 a.m.

History-

"But for god sakes give us an explanation (and I am addressing the gov) that doesn't have any holes in to say that it is."

but thats it...There IS an explanation- the behavior of contrails has been explained by science for years...the laymen is ignorant of that, reads some alarmist rant on the internet and looks up in fear...and then resists the explanation when given to them.

There WAS evidence that smoking was bad- people died from lung cancer...and the evidence was buried...

There IS no similar evidence...the material in the troposphere never even reaches the ground...there is much more pollution from sources much closer to you than a plane...

...yes, the the housewife from Canada is very concerned- she no doubt googled "chemtrails" and found a large body of "information" put forth in shrill cries of fear and speculation...

..of course, she thinks all contrails dissipate in 22 seconds or less...apparently ignorance is not bliss...

Van LePort-....of course, you do.

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Looking_Up April 27, 2009 @ 10:16 p.m.

Let us not spray the people, let us just terrorize them with the President's plane. If you were there on 9/11, you remember the pain - if you lost someone, it hurt even more.

"NYPD Deputy Commissioner Paul Browne said the department was told of the "aerial photo mission" last Thursday but was ordered to stay quiet about it."

Apparently not even the mayor knew about this. If they'll do this to create freakin' tie clips, don't you think they'd do far worse for more "important" missions?

An unnecessary sad reminder...

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/327763.html

BTW, congrats to Baxter International. I feel so much better knowing you will develop the swine flu vaccine. I hope nobody can remember a mere few weeks ago when you got caught sending out live H5N1 avian flu virus?

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html

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ReasonNow April 28, 2009 @ 12:21 p.m.

I have witnessed excessive chemtrails in san diego area not caused by commercial airlines, but military jets. We have miliatary bases here, however it could be the fuel they use. Or are they polluting citizens or cloud seeding?

In my opionion, even if the government is cloud seeding for needed rains in southern california its not natural for the environment(water & agriculture) and people.

Perhaps we should consult with this woman,Rosalind Peterson, who is studied B.A(agriculture & crop) and maintained coverage, active research and visual evidence records and testimonies http://www.californiaskywatch.com/ and WORKED for U.S.D.A farm agency crop lost adjuster.

Upon examining her website, i found it interesting to note her awareness of high levels of arsenic in water supplies. I was panning for elements(silver, copper, gold) in rocky river ohio 9yrs ago and discoverd massive amounts of arsenic through-out rocky river. In fact mining is completed in lake erie for arsenic for (rat poision). It was an erin brockovich experience to say the least...

Thank you for making us aware of this topic historymatters!

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historymatters April 28, 2009 @ 6:50 p.m.

Factbased, I appreciate your disagreement and your info but I'd like to try and refrain from referring to anyone as ignorant because they are asking questions. Thank you

Did you watch the Discover Channel investigation? They were very unbiased presenting both sides and the evidence they presented from people like Rosalind Peterson who worked for yrs for the State Dept of Agriculture and spent much of her time watching the skies and studying pollution of crops and water were quite compelling. She found what other concerned citizens found when they tested the fallout...barium, aluminum and arsenic.

The only evidence they were able to present from the other side was a random sampling of commercial jet fuel that they got from the airport showing no aluminum. To me that argument had way more holes in it than the argument of rosalind.

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historymatters April 28, 2009 @ 6:55 p.m.

Thank you Looking Up. Fascinating about Baxter and a real news story. I mean you can't make this stuff up. Keep raising the flags and asking questions. :)

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historymatters April 28, 2009 @ 8:13 p.m.

I saw on the discovery Channel investigation that the weather conditions critics say do allow the chemtrails to be stronger and more dramatic than usual occur when the warm jet exhaust hits extremely frigid air. By this definition the strength and duration of the chemtrails seen on Earth day don't make sense. The weather was extremely warm, no wind...just a pristine calm and clear day. I don't know alot about weather science but I imagine that a very calm and clear day indicates that there is not alot of conflicting air temperatures at higher altitudes otherwise wouldn't they create systems of some sort that would at least create clouds?

Anyway, what was disturbing about the Discovery Channel investigation is that watchdogs like rosalind contend that the aluminum that is being dropped to reflect sunlight is actually tiny particles of fiberglass. fiberglass makes me think of 1 thing...asbestos. that stuff is awful if it gets in your lungs. It gets loged and never leaves. Other local news casts...1 in an Bernadino showed a group of citizens that were complaining of severe respiratory problems in conjunction w/ the trails backed up by reports from local hospitals. (I will try and find it).

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factbased April 29, 2009 @ 3:26 p.m.

notice I did not say stupid-ignorance in the literal sense of the term- unknowing;unaware

if someone believes that all contrails dissipate within a few seconds, they are ignorant of the reality of persistent contrails.

As you indicated, you are ignorant of atmospheric science so, speculating as to what the weather is like 6 miles above you is not a logical proposition.

Just FYI- the weather on the ground as no bearing on the conditions at 35K feet. It is always well below zero at that altitude and thus the heat of exhaust from a jet engine is always in conflict with the ambient air. Whether a contrail forms at all or if it does, persists or not has to do with a range of variables from both the plane and the ambient atmosphere.

"otherwise wouldn't they create systems of some sort that would at least create clouds?"

What do you think contrails are?? They are clouds of ice- much like cirrus clouds.

And by calling every contrail a "chemtrail" you are exposing your bias and calling your objectivity into question.

Rosalind is no doubt well meaning however, collecting ground water samples and implying they are from contrails is not a scientifically sound deduction...and seems all the more dubious coming from someone who should know better.

The fact remains, contrails get sampled directly- in situ- right from the plume frequently, globally...and not one has ever been found to contain anything more than what would be expected in jet exhaust.

There are much more likely, logical sources of contaminants on the ground...never mind that barium (and arsenic) is one of the most common elements found in ground water as it is present as a trace element in both igneous and sedimentary rocks.

Not mention the science of fall rates and dispersal theory is such that particulate matter in the size found in any contrail above you would never fall directly down on you but instead drift for 100s or 1000s of miles before- if ever- hitting the ground.

again, so much that people are so...er..unaware of and yet point to the sky and think they know because they read it on the internet...

(SNIP)

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factbased April 29, 2009 @ 3:27 p.m.

(continued)...

People reading this are no doubt saying I am a paid disinfo agent or shill or whatever...but the fact remains most- if not all- "chemtrail" believers are woefully ignorant of the information needed to accurately judge what they think they see in the sky...instead they get fed huge amounts of inaccurate information- outright fallacies in some cases- on the web- put forth with no sourcing of info or consequence for error and the herd just nods in agreement and calls anyone who disagrees a "disinfo" agent- its sad really...

Its easy to learn though- educate yourself on atmospheric science and contrail formation. I have given so much info on this very thread- terms and even papers to start with...

History- did you google a single term I gave you?

Why not?

here are some neat photos- from 1970:

http://www.life.com/image/72931185?xid=embedimage72931185

http://www.life.com/image/72931158?xid=embedimage72931158

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historymatters April 29, 2009 @ 8:57 p.m.

Im not disregarding your points, I am just not convinced. I did google your terms. They just facilitate further discussions by professionals. I'm not trying to pretend to be a professional just a concerned citizen that believes in asking questions.

But if your contentions are true then why did the Discovery channel investigation not pull up a bunch of scientists to say what you articulated? I have seen alot of Discovery Channel Invstigations and I thought for sure they would end by debunking the myth of chemtrails as they typically do but they did not. They left the question wide open.

I dont think the evidence that these are mere contrails was compelling enough to even present so instead they approached it from the angle of prooving that there was no aluminum in the jet exhaust. That tells us very little as most people believe that the chemtrails (and I continue to call them that for the sake of simplicity and consistency) are being drawn by military jets. I havent been able to identify any commercial jets drawing them.

And I think that stunt the DOD pulled in manhattan this week is evidence that DOD is operating as their own entity w/ the same arrogance and idiocy as the Bush administration.

And I am not accusing you of being a shill. I think you are just another person w/ an opinion and that is fine.

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factbased April 30, 2009 @ 11:06 a.m.

History...(sigh)

Alas- if all you watched was the 9 minute version of that Discovery show that you linked above...then you are being played...such is the internet...

The show was an hour long...it had many experts- atmospheric scientists (Patrick Minnis)- claiming that the idea was complete nonsense...that snippet of the show you provided is a propaganda piece...Surely you are more discerning than that?

Or if you did watch the whole show and then just link that biased propaganda piece, then you are part of the problem.

The terms I provided do not just "facilitate further discussions by professionals" - they explain how the atmosphere works and how jet exhaust interacts with the atmosphere...it explains how and why contrails persist...it is proof that "normal" contrails can and do persist, spread and cover the sky in a haze of cirrus clouds. (contrail cirrus)

Does it prove that "they" (it is supposedly a global operation by the way) are not spraying anything - no.

But it does show that seeing a persistent contrail in the sky- or multiple trails- and saying definitively that they are "chemtrail" is an illogical assertion based on nothing more than internet hysteria.

...and that simple premise is what the entire "theory" is based on- the internet is filled with pictures of "chemtrails", filled with videos of "spray" planes- definitive declarations of proof...when it is highly probable, extremely likely even- that they are just persistent contrails- given the science of the atmosphere and its proven interaction with jet exhaust; given the historical precedent set by scientific fact.

Doesn't it bother you that not a single atmospheric scientist-any where in the World- who studies these things- is alarmed by the sight of a persistent contrail? ...or thinks there is anything nefarious taking place?

...even 9/11 "truthers" had some quasi engineers...

The vast majority of- if not ALL- "chemtrail" believers point to persistent trails as evidence....when it can not be evidence since it is a known behavior of normal trails...it is really quite simple.

So, when you took those pictures of the trails you posted- were they from military jets?

The "chemtrail" community is not unified as to whether it is only military jets or commercial too...some say it is all planes some say it is not...Some think they can discern between a military plane or not from 10 or miles away...most do not even see the plane leave the trail- just see the trail and claim it is a "chemtrail".

Ask all the questions you want...but learn how to discern the answer.

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jnojr March 26, 2014 @ 6:55 a.m.

The thing with crazy people is, they don't know they're crazy. Their craziness makes perfect sense to them. In their world, there really are "chemtrails", and showing them evidence to the contrary, or pointing out that there is ZERO evidence supporting them, simply makes you part of the conspiracy and therefore further support for their belief in chemtrails.

It frightens me that people like this are allowed to vote.

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