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The retirement packages of City of San Diego employees are even more outrageous than earlier reported. When you add in the quintessential double-dipping caper called Deferred Option Plan (DROP), plus other emoluments, Eugene Gordon, a former assistant city attorney, is being paid a whopping $299,103 a year in retirement, according to former City Attorney Mike Aguirre, who requested and finally received the numbers from City officials. Doug McCalla, who formerly ran the City's investment portfolio, is raking in $247,312 a year in his retirement.

Aguirre believes that a special prosecutor, similar to one used in the City of Bell, should be named to investigate the San Diego pension scandal -- particularly the fact that elected officials pay very little into the system and walk away with fat retirements while still in their 40s. (In the accompanying list, check former City Attorney Casey Gwinn's retirement pay, along with the pay of former Councilmember Jim Madaffer. Both retired in their 40s.) Aguirre believes that District Attorney Bonnie Dumanis should not be considered for the investigation, since she has not been willing to pursue other obvious cases of wrongdoing that she has been handed. "Any pension debt created without a vote of the people is illegal," says Aguirre. This thesis would be the basis of an investigation.

In a letter to Mayor Jerry Sanders, Aguirre suggested that the California State Controller conduct an independent audit of the City's financial relationship with its pension system. The letter notes that Sanders promised to voters that he would not take his pension while receiving his full mayoral salary, but he is now doing so.

Attached is a list of what former City employees are getting in their retirements.

Click here to download the Annual Retirement Allowances Paid - City of San Diego - as a PDF

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Comments

Founder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 9:49 a.m.

" "Any pension debt created without a vote of the people is illegal," says Aguirre."

That sums it up nicely...

I predict that SD's Pension FOLLY will become National News and urge all our Leaders to support the independent investigation or risk becoming one of those investigated!

It's time for SD to do some "Spring Cleaning", especially before voting in November for more of the same poor public policy padding"...

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nan shartel Sept. 30, 2010 @ 9:54 a.m.

~~help~~help~~i've fallen into a sinkhole of pension corruption and i can't get out~~

the gall of these people...thx for shining a light Don

may they all rot in coporatepolitical hell

they bad

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:09 a.m.

Response to post #1: Yes, what San Diego needs is more national media attention -- beginning with another NY Times headline, "Enron by the Sea." Best, Don Bauder

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SurfPuppy619 Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:10 a.m.

Cant wait for JustClueless to come on here with some of his public employee BS propaganda and try to justify this SCAM.

Here, let me state one or two before he even shows up;

"Oh, but it SAVES the City money".......LOL....oh, and then this one "It is the employee's money"....

We're going broke at every level in this state over public employee pay and benefits-and the ONLY way to stop it is going to be thru the ballot box.

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:11 a.m.

Response to post #2: They're floating on a heavenly cloud now with their $200,000-$300,000 annual pensions, but, yes, Nan, they belong in the underworld. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:13 a.m.

Response to post #4: "We're GOING to be broke?" C'mon, SP, you know better than that. We ARE broke. Best, Don Bauder

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SurfPuppy619 Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:14 a.m.

They're floating on a heavenly cloud now with their $200,000-$300,000 annual pensions, but, yes, Nan, they belong in the

Well, tell those clowns to live the life styles of the rich and famous (off of other people's dime) while they can, b/c it is going to be short lived-once this city files for BK those 6 figure pensions are going to be the first item on the BK Court's agenda that takes a haircut.

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SurfPuppy619 Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:15 a.m.

"We're GOING to be broke?" C'mon, SP, you know better than that. We ARE broke. Best, Don Bauder

==================== My bad. You're 100% correct, as always.

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:57 a.m.

Response to post #7: It would be good, too, if the state controller goes through with an investigation, and criminal charges result, as Aguirre desires. That will only happen if people get aroused enough -- if every time they pay $400 after their car hits a pothole, they think of City retirees raking in $300,000 a year. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:58 a.m.

Response to post #8: You have said it yourself many times. Best, Don Bauder

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JustWondering Sept. 30, 2010 @ 11:17 a.m.

Instead of all this speculation and innuendo, guess we'll just have to wait for the City to release its DROP cost analysis. Remember it has been City management, not the employees, who have delayed the study for what, ten years now?

The study may show the DROP program is not cost neutral as required by the controlling Ordinances. Then again it may show when all costs are properly calculated it saves or the City makes money on the program. No one really knows.

But if we examine just the last fiscal year, SDCERS made 13.1% on its investments which include all the monies in the DROP Pool. DROP annuities are fixed payments over time certain periods. The interest rate ranges between five(5)to eight (8)percent depending on when you purchased the annuity. That means the City/SDCERS earned between 5.1 and 8.1 percent or the margins during the last fiscal year, and those earning LOWERED the City's UAAL.

And, yes, before my good friends Billy/Johnny/Surfpuppy and Don ripped me to blog shreds, this example is only for the most recent fiscal year. That's why I began this comment with why don't we stop the speculation. According to the Mayor's office the study is in progress and should be published early next year. It's also part of the requirements of Prop. D so if it passes and they want to start the higher sales tax, the City must publish it or, if nothing else, convince Mr. Luna, the City Auditor, the study is complete.

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JustWondering Sept. 30, 2010 @ 11:20 a.m.

Oh and by the way, for the record, no San Diego city employee hired after July 1, 2005, gets access to DROP Program or employer paid Retiree Health Care.

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JustWondering Sept. 30, 2010 @ 11:53 a.m.

Don, In comment number 9 above you wrote "...after their car hits a pothole, they think of City "retirees" raking in $300,000 a year."

According to the PDF you attached to you piece, no City of San Diego retiree earns $300,000. So the word "retirees", plural or not, is inaccurate.

One retiree comes close but anyone who has done rounding with numbers would round the amount down, now up as you did. So, your sentence is inflammatory and inaccurate. I'm just wondering if you had an editor would they let that go without questioning it and you?

While I understand your personal gripes about the pension mess, you offer no balance whatsoever about the employee you chose to singled out in your story.

Mr. Eugene Gordon, a 39.11 year employee for the City of San Diego ended his career as an Assistance City Attorney in the Civil Division. If you will a position second in command to our elected City Attorney. He earned a "pension" payment of $185,203.14, which includes a preservation of pension benefits provision, provisions enacted by the Plan Sponsor, the City of San Diego, of $70,510.44. So his actual pension payment is $114,692.70.

He is 69 years old and, as I mentioned, worked just over 39 years for the city. During those years he saved the City and the taxpayers' ass millions of dollars in civil litigation costs and judgments.

I realize passions are quite high when it comes to these issues. But when those passions color the words of a professional journalist, one has to step back and think. In my opinion, accuracy in reporting should be job one, while fairness plays a role too. Both you and your stories are more credible when you do so. Otherwise, label it as an Op/Ed piece or tabloid journalism.

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Founder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 12:28 p.m.

Reply #11

"According to the Mayor's office the study is in progress and should be published early next year. It's also part of the requirements of Prop. D so if it passes and they want to start the higher sales tax, the City must publish it or, if nothing else, convince Mr. Luna, the City Auditor, the study is complete."

Funny how the STUDY's timing is after the November election and of course Mr. Luna will not promote for his own retirement "benefit", while accepting that the STUDY is indeed "complete"...

With the City spending well over $600,000 per day we cannot afford to wait until NEXT YEAR to get our Fiscal house in order...

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JustWondering Sept. 30, 2010 @ 1:13 p.m.

You Founder you're really stuck on this $600K a day number. I'm just wondering how much do you think it should cost to run a city, providing services for 1.3 million residents, another half million visitors/travelers and about 320 square miles that includes a network of road, water/wastewater services, parks, beaches, public safety, fire, paramedic etc etc etc ?

Have you compared our cost to other California cities of similar demographic and geographic circumstances?

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 1:32 p.m.

Response to post #11: Everybody awaits the publishing of this study. The question is whether it will be objective. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 1:34 p.m.

Response to post #12: The manna for new hires has been jettisoned. But it's the manna flowing to those now retired, and those hired before 2005, that is the problem. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 1:39 p.m.

Response to post #13: Gordon is getting more than $299,000 a year, plus 2 percent adjustment each year. It's poetic license to say he is making $300,000. As others retire, they will make $300,000. You are splitting hairs. Best, Don Bauder

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SurfPuppy619 Sept. 30, 2010 @ 1:44 p.m.

Cant wait for JustClueless to come on here with some of his public employee BS propaganda and try to justify this SCAM.

Here, let me state one or two before he even shows up;

"Oh, but it SAVES the City money".......

By SurfPuppy619 10:10 a.m., Sep 30, 2010

. . "Then again it may show when all costs are properly calculated it saves or the City makes money on the program. No one really knows."

By JustWondering 11:53 a.m., Sep 30, 2010

Told you so.

And for the record-Mike Aguirre did do a study on the costs of DROP in 2007, 3 years ago, and at that time it had cost the City over $400 million. That is hardly "saving" money.

DROP also costs unemployed people a chance to earn a living b/c the "job" that the public employee has "retired" from is denying a (paying) job to someone out of work and on unemployment insurance-costing everyone big $$$ thru social services- like UE insurance, food stamps, and all kinds of other state social expenses. DROP also denies lower ranked employees their shot at being promoted.

DROP is a scam concocted by public unions to line the pockets of the few- muni employees- at the expense of the many, and to fleece the taxpayers.

Stop the spinning, won't work here.

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 1:45 p.m.

Response to post #14: Unfortunately, those who defend the current pensions -- and the ages at which safety personnel can retire (50 and 55) -- do not care about whether the City can afford to shell out this money or not. They give moral, ethical, legalistic, and emotional arguments for why they deserve it. They do not consider the slashing of services, delaying of infrastructure improvements, lack of maintenance, etc. that result from these excessive payments. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 1:48 p.m.

Response to post #15: The money to keep up these pension payments is expected to continue flowing from heaven. Best, Don Bauder

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SurfPuppy619 Sept. 30, 2010 @ 1:48 p.m.

Everybody awaits the publishing of this study.

These so-called studies put out by KFC Sanders and his cronies (like public unions) are not legit-they are nothing more than special interest propaganda thinly disguised as legit research.

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SurfPuppy619 Sept. 30, 2010 @ 1:52 p.m.

They give moral, ethical, legalistic, and emotional arguments for why they deserve it.

All bogus.

The majority of the pension underfunding is by far the result of gifting out unearned, un-worked for, retroactive pension increases.

The notion that these pensions were earned or are deserved is simply not valid.

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 1:57 p.m.

Response to post #22: The outcome of most such studies is predetermined. That's why consulting firms are hired to provide the desired outcome. However, I don't know who is doing this study. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 1:59 p.m.

Response to post #23: Good point. Best, Don Bauder

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JustWondering Sept. 30, 2010 @ 3:47 p.m.

TO #24 Buck and Associates. The City has them under contract for actuarial services.

To Surfpuppy: Don't make me laugh so hard. Mike Aguirre? Like he is going to produce a study that would undermine all of his ridiculous reports and lame brain litigation. Jesus, I can't stop laughing. It's idiotic statements like that from you, and Mike Aguirre's legal work product that has been laughed out of every court where he gone. But whats worse, his self-importance display and acts at the La Jolla landslide in Oct 2007, where he was acting more like a plaintiff's attorney, then the City's Attorney. That show ended up costing the city more than six million dollar in outside attorney and experts fees for an act of God. After that, the citizens of San Diego tired of his antics, fired his egocentric ass. His grandiosity the likes of which have never been seen in the city before is more than likely a sign of a deeper illness, not brilliance.

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Founder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 4:22 p.m.

Reply #15 Yup, I'm "really stuck on this $600K a day number", everyday our Leaders waffle, it costs us all, Assuming you JW do pay SD City & County taxes and are not blogging (from say Orange County).

If home owners fail to pay on time they get penalized, why should our Leaders get to squander our City money just to cover for their lack of decision making ability!

BTW: Now we know why all the City Employees that appear on City TV are smiling, they are becoming rich(er) while $pooning Spin...

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JustWondering Sept. 30, 2010 @ 4:34 p.m.

Response to #18.

Wrong again Don. How about doing some research before typing out your emotional responses.

  1. SDCERS did not authorize a COLA adjustment in 2009 because of the rules stated in number two below.

  2. Each year on July 1 following the employee's retirement date, the monthly retirement benefit may be increased by applying a Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA). The increase will not exceed 2%. The COLA is based on increases or decreases in the nationwide Consumer Price Index (CPI) in the last calendar year, as measured by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

  3. As stated above, if our economy slips into a period of deflation and the CPI falls, SDCERS has the authority by ordinance and rules set by the plan sponsor to reduce the COLA payments.

  4. For the record SDCERS did grant a 2% COLA adjustment effective July 1, 2010. The Bureau of Labor Statistics measured the nationwide CPI at 3.2%.

  5. SDCERS did not grant this benefit. The COLA was granted by the City, and City Council as the plan's sponsor. §24.1505 SDMC was last amended in 1999 but has been in place since 1971 here is the link to the ordinance: http://docs.sandiego.gov/municode/MuniCodeChapter02/Ch02Art04Division15.pdf

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JustWondering Sept. 30, 2010 @ 4:35 p.m.

Founder, How about Idaho, does that count?

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 4:40 p.m.

Response to post #26: Mike Aguirre, Diann Shipione, Pat Shea, Donna Frye and a handful of others have tried valiantly to get the City to recognize and do something about the financial hole it has dug. Of course you and your ilk hate him. He wants to do something about the excesses you are luxuriating in. Aguirre was a victim of one of San Diego's most disgusting smear campaigns, led by the U-T. The U-T reporter who tossed the most dirt is now working for the mayor, which is what he was doing all along. What will happen when the city wakes up? Somebody else will take the bow. Remember Sunroad? Aguirre smoked it out and pushed it. Sanders fought back. Sunroad's head was one of his big donors. But when the City finally caved, the U-T gave Sanders the credit. Something like that will happen again. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 4:41 p.m.

Response to post #27: I'm lucky I can't see them grinning on TV. I might hurl something at the set. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 4:45 p.m.

Response to post #28: If deflation hits, the salaries of City employees should be reduced by the amount the CPI falls. Best, Don Bauder

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JustWondering Sept. 30, 2010 @ 4:47 p.m.

31,

Hurl? Something? Isn't there a OTC pink liquid that eases the tendency to hurl? I hear it works better at higher altitudes too.

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sdsocialdiary Sept. 30, 2010 @ 4:55 p.m.

Don.... we know you want to report on the full facts... My understanding is that DROP was originally intended only for safety response personnel, then that got expanded...not the original plan... also it is a statistic that law enforcement personnel live on average 15 years less than other employees....further, with DROP, employees gave up their rights to medicare and social security.... ** Margo Schwab, whose husband earned the first Purple Heart for the San Diego Police Department by rescuing two officers down by 10 gang guys.... he then was shot once in the thigh and the second shot misfired at his head and later fired in the lab.... not an average 9-5 job

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JustWondering Sept. 30, 2010 @ 4:57 p.m.

Oh I also forget this as part of the rebuttal to post 18.

You said: "Gordon is getting more than $299,000 a year, plus 2 percent adjustment each year.Gordon is getting more than $299,000 a year, plus 2 percent adjustment each year."

Beside the rebuttal comments in #28 above, this statement is wrong in another way. The 2% COLA adjustment, if granted, only applies to the pension portion of his compensation, which is NOT $299,000. All DROP payments come from a separate fixed annuity. The COLA rules DO NOT apply to the DROP annuity.

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JustWondering Sept. 30, 2010 @ 5:01 p.m.

I've heard of Scott and met him once at an event. Thank you for your 30 years of Service to the Citizens of San Diego.

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Founder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 5:02 p.m.

Reply #29 Not unless you're a couch potato, SPUD!

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sdsocialdiary Sept. 30, 2010 @ 5:09 p.m.

To: Just Wondering.... thank you ... Scott was proud to serve for 32 years.... it's not easy... a bit like being at war you are constantly on guard... so thank you... Scott always enjoyed helping people and continues to do so in other ways Best ** Margo

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 5:22 p.m.

Response to post #33: Never heard of it. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 5:24 p.m.

Response to post #34: I don't believe those stats are right. Ones that I have seen indicate that the life expectancy of fire and police personnel is about the same as those in other positions. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 5:28 p.m.

Response to post #35: You said I was wrong saying that there would be more than one making $300,000. I said that while Gordon's would rise with the COLA, I was reasonably certain that there would be others in the future raking in $300,000 or more. So I don't apologize for using the plural. Best, Don Bauder

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sdsocialdiary Sept. 30, 2010 @ 5:30 p.m.

Don .... trust me... it's true... from many sources including people who contribute to determining the stats...and it's not the donuts!

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 5:30 p.m.

Response to post #36: I have not meant Scott. I have seen many pictures of him. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 5:31 p.m.

Response to post #37: Can a couch potato be a stud as well as a spud? Best, Don Bauder

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sdsocialdiary Sept. 30, 2010 @ 5:34 p.m.

Don ** Scott says he can put you in touch with the retirement official from the City ... part of the exit interview is the actuarial table that relates 15 years off life expectancy as a matter of fact.... think of it Don... turn the tables ... 15 years less of your life...not cheering

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Don Bauder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 5:34 p.m.

Response to post #38: I'm glad you are proud of Scott. But tell me: how is an insolvent city going to pay for these benefits? No one has yet answered that. Best, Don Bauder

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sdsocialdiary Sept. 30, 2010 @ 5:44 p.m.

Don ... that's a separate subject and a serious one.... that one is beyond my knowledge base... but I do think of Peter Drucker as he implored us student to look to history for answers....

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Founder Sept. 30, 2010 @ 6:29 p.m.

Reply #38 Scott may be the best guy in the "room" but that does not have anything to do with OUTRAGEOUS pensions for ALL City Employees.

Let's get back to the topic; over pensioned Ex-City workers are raking it in on the Pensions that our Leaders have given them...

Sure many are deserving but most are not, IN THESE TOUGH ECONOMIC TIMES!

The City needs to go Bankrupt ASAP and then we will get "some" resolution to ALL the gifting by previous Leaders to themselves and indirectly to those that put them into office!

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JustWondering Sept. 30, 2010 @ 7:18 p.m.

Founder you should really watch the video of City Attorney Jan Goldsmith's speech at the January 2010 at a Taxpayers Association luncheon, it's right on point.

Pay close attention to minutes 12:40 to 15:00. His remarks begin at the 2:30 mark...so you skip the boring introductions. His talk runs about 30:00 minutes.

Here the link: http://granicus.sandiego.gov/ASX.php?publish_id=830&sn=granicus.sandiego.gov&SESS1=79701d1df96c450b35ea2a8d5031e85a

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Ponzi Sept. 30, 2010 @ 8:37 p.m.

So with life expectancies the way they are these days, and no contemporary actuarial assumptions calculated into the pension forecasts…

It’s possible an employee who retires at age 62, with a $300,000, pension to pocket 7.5 million dollars PLUS health benefits if they live to be the age of .. Say Tony Curtis or other people who pass in their mid 80’s?

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Ponzi Sept. 30, 2010 @ 8:45 p.m.

Margo Schwab, whose husband earned the first Purple Heart for the San Diego Police Department by rescuing two officers down by 10 gang guys.... he then was shot once in the thigh and the second shot misfired at his head and later fired in the lab.... not an average 9-5 job

Neither is getting arms and legs amputated serving their COUNTRY, or having be to around real terrorists 7/24/365 that would make being around city gangs seem like spending the day paint balling. I’m not impressed with the duty of San Diego Police. It’s their job and for the intelligence and education required, they are highly paid, glorified security guards. Not much different in skill than a Private in the Army. So why are the real men and women in the armed forces not paid such ransoms? They do 10 X what police do.

But what an arrogant post and what is your point?

We pay police and fireman way too much. And it’s going to stop. Because if it doesn’t there is going to be civil disobedience and riots like in the 1960’s But it will be about the widening divide between the haves (public employees) and the have nots (the people who pay the public employees).

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Burwell Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:09 p.m.

How many motorists received tickets from Scott because their front tires were six inches past the white line when they stopped their cars at the stop sign? I personally received two bogus traffic tickets from the San Diego Police for trumped up violations. Officers harvest what they sow.

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SurfPuppy619 Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:15 p.m.

also it is a statistic that law enforcement personnel live on average 15 years less than other employees....further, with DROP, employees gave up their rights to medicare and social security.... ** Margo Schwab

Margo- may I respond to your comment.

The talking point, and that is exactly what it is, that cops/ff's/[insert any gov "safety" job here] live shorter life spans than anyone else has been so thoroughly debunked it is hard to believe anyone still tries to use it as a reason to gouge taxpayers;

"CalPERS Debunks Myth of Shorter Life Expectancy For Safety Employees*" http://www.davisvanguard.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2977:calpers-debunks-myth-of-shorter-life-expectancy-for-safety-employees&Itemid=79 .

Last, medicare and SS;

The City and all of it's employees "opted out" of SS back in the early 80,s for a much more lucrative pension plan/s (three pensions actually with SPSP & DROP), it had nothing to do with DROP. DROP is actually a THIRD PENSION PLAN!

Social Security is CAPPED at a little over $30K/year, that is the absolute MOST ANYONE can receive from SS, and they MUST wait until age 67 to receive that highest amount.

DROP is a scam, intened to line the pockets of the few (City employees) at the expense of the many (poor and middle class taxpayer), mostly the poor and middle class who are earning far less than the average City employee, with far less job security.

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SurfPuppy619 Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:19 p.m.

It’s possible an employee who retires at age 62, with a $300,000, pension to pocket 7.5 million dollars PLUS health benefits if they live to be the age of .. Say Tony Curtis or other people who pass in their mid 80’s?

By Ponzi

The average mortality rate for men and women in CA, used by Calpers, is 81 for men and 86 for women.

See the link above for Calpers OWN actuary estimates.

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SurfPuppy619 Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:30 p.m.

Founder you should really watch the video of City Attorney Jan Goldsmith's speech at the January 2010 at a Taxpayers Association luncheon, it's right on point.

Pay close attention to minutes 12:40 to 15:00. His remarks begin at the 2:30 mark...so you skip the boring introductions. His talk runs about 30:00 minutes.

Here the link: http://granicus.sandiego.gov/ASX.php?... By JustWondering ====================

JustClueless, your GED is raising it's ugly head again. A Goldsmith video-the beacon of TRUTH!!!!!! (you should go into standup with these comedic posts!!).

Jan Goldsmith is nothing but a hack. This is the same clown that, in his OWN WORDS, ON THIS VIDEO, says San Diego is not insolvent. OMG, what a tool.

Goldsmith in the past has also said it would cost $300 million in lawyer fees to take San Diego into BK (a number that has no basis in realty whatsoever-he just pulled out of his butt and is as PHONY as that squirrel sitting on top of Golsmith’s head).

In fact, these are the VERY SAME, EXACT arguments the Vallejo fire and police departments made before Vallejo filed BK, that they were not insolvent and the city had tons of secret money stashed away in secret bank accounts and the BK legal costs would be hundreds of millions of dollars.

Now for the facts-Vallejo was found insolvent by the BK court, the contracts were cancelled, and the total costs TO DATE (after 2.5 years) has been less than $5 million TOTAL.

Goldsmith talking points are just that-talking points, they are no different than the bogus claims you have repeated here on these pages so many times in the past

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SurfPuppy619 Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:33 p.m.

Don ** Scott says he can put you in touch with the retirement official from the City ... part of the exit interview is the actuarial table that relates 15 years off life expectancy as a matter of fact.... think of it Don... turn the tables ... 15 years less of your life...not cheering

By sdsocialdiary

Put him in touch with me, so I can set him straight on that false talking point-once and for all.

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Ponzi Sept. 30, 2010 @ 10:42 p.m.

Margo, your confirmation bias is showing.

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sdsocialdiary Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:19 a.m.

Burwell ... parking issues, don't think so... taking down a terrorist at gunpoint in downtown La Jolla yes he did that...the guy confessed and was deported...only one example... regarding age expectancies... my comments were based on more than one expert... you all have other expert references ... that is fair commentary...

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 1, 2010 @ 7:26 a.m.

regarding age expectancies... my comments were based on more than one expert... you all have other expert references ... that is fair commentary...

By sdsocialdiary

Margo- is it still your contention (after I posted the links to debunk that myth) that public safety employees have shorter mortality rates-in light if Calpers own research/actuarial estimates?

BTW-It was the UT's Chris Reed that requested-and received- those stats from Calpers. You may want to contact him for confirmation.

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Fred Williams Oct. 1, 2010 @ 7:55 a.m.

Cops are not heroes. Often they're immature cowards shooting so much steroids they cannot reason at all.

As noted above, the average Marine in Afghanistan faces far more danger...and they're not swaggering down the street demanding "respect" from the neighbors. The average cab driver or store clerk faces far more danger, day to day, than the average cop.

With crime going down dramatically (entirely due to demographics, absolutely NO correlation with anything the cops do) it's time to reduce our police forces too.

We can't afford our over-paid over-pampered cops. Time to get rid of as many as we can. They do very little to prevent or investigate crime.

If I were Mayor, I'd have every single cop tested for steroids, and fire all those who come up positive. That would reduce our costs while dramatically increasing the quality of the officers that remain.

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Founder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 8:21 a.m.

Reply #51 Right On post...Ponzi

Many serving in the Military would love to step into FAT City JOB!

We are now well into a different employment period where "JUST": getting a job will be a life/wealth changing event; as ever more of what used to be middle class workers, struggle to find any work, that will allow them to support their families and or prevent them from becoming just "POORER".

As I've said many times before, the middle class has always insulated the Wealthy from the frustration's of the POOR, especially here in San Diego! Now that our "Middle Class" is shrinking, things here will get rougher, especially for those that feel they are entitled to "everything"...

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Founder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 8:33 a.m.

Reply #60

You have raised a great point; Police and FF all started using the "Hero" wording after 9-11...

Thankfully we have many Hero's in San Diego, and most of them are not City employees; they are our neighbors, friends and even strangers that went out of their way to do what others shied away from, because it was the "RIGHT" thing to do!

San Diego future fiscal situation demands that we as a City not only make much more use of trained Volunteers, (even though the BIG Unions will resist that concept) but hire from that group of Volunteers when new openings occur. We need more trained folks for wildfires and other disasters... Life Saving and CPR are just two examples of programs that we should be modeling our volunteer responder program upon.

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Founder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 8:56 a.m.

Adding to #55

SP said it very well, when he said, "Jan Goldsmith ... says San Diego is not insolvent".

I'd love to read the difference between exactly what Mr Goldsmith feels is our current financial situation that we are "now" in and being "insolvent"!

My guess is that while San Diego may not be LEGALISTICALLY "completely and really, really insolvent" (to use the Wizard of OZ Analogy), we are so close to being "insolvent" that Mr. Goldsmith is "rounding downward" as JW suggests...

If someone knows Mr. Goldsmith and Mr. Luna, (the City Auditor), perhaps they could ask them both for, say a percentage of how close are we to being "Insolvent"; that would give us all true insight into the well being of our City, especially if that "jived" with what the IBA (Independent Budget Analyst) thinks!

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Visduh Oct. 1, 2010 @ 10:19 a.m.

This is an amazing hot-button issue, and not just in SD and not just the Reader. The August 30 edition of National Review, a most conservative publication, carried a piece that calmly outlined the stance reflected by both Don and SurfPuppy. The author took pains not to denigrate the dangers and stresses of public safety employment, but did point out that most jurisdictions simply cannot afford to pay six-figure salaries and fund retirements that start as early as age 50 with payments close to the full salary. It was obvious that this sort of controversy is a far wider phenomenon than just in California.

Predictably, the author was excoriated in a letter to the editor that appeared in the next edition of NR. The arguments that appeared in that letter were just about the same I see appended to Don's blogs. "We deserve it", "we don't earn that much", "you don't appreciate what we do", and "our retirements aren't that generous and even if they were, you cannot alter them" all appeared.

For those commentators who don't see themselves as conservative, you would be amazed to learn how conservative you really are. For those who might want to read the piece, you can find it on the NR website.

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sdsocialdiary Oct. 1, 2010 @ 10:21 a.m.

surf puppy....as I tried to infer...there are discrepancies obviously on numbers..... I have heard a number one way ... one reference was a gentleman who did the numbers for NYC cops and then for SD..... it seems to get complicated with the common denominator of 'expert' being in contention... respectfully ** Margo

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 1, 2010 @ 10:26 a.m.

Police and fire are core gov services that cannot be outsourced-well possibly fire, but that is a big ??? mark.....we need them, they need us. Safety plays a huge role in our society-we need to have respect for them, and vice versa. Their compensation is too much, and it is creating distrust, anger, resentment and a complete break down in our society-and it is obvious from just the posts in this one little thread-which gets repeated tens of thousands of times daily across this country..........We need to provide a FAIR comp, that is not in the top 5% in the nation, that is more in line with everyday working folks.

I don't know if I have posted this link before-it is a cartoon video making the rounds that is pretty funny.....be warned there are at least 100 F-bombs in this video and if you do not like profanity skip it; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmC26R... .

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 11:22 a.m.

Response to post #47: It's usually a different spending decision, or series of decisions, driving a city into default, near-default, or bankruptcy. Each one is different. But there are many lessons from history about overspending and overcommitting during the halcyon days. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 11:23 a.m.

Response to post #48: How do yo separate the deserving from the non-deserving? The labor union will claim that all are deserving. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 11:25 a.m.

Response to post #49: Founder, it's up to you to watch it. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 11:27 a.m.

Response to post #50: How about those who retire at 50 or 55? Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 11:30 a.m.

Response to post #51: And if citizens riot against excessive police and fire pay, who will try to stem the riot? Police and fire personnel. Could be interesting. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 11:31 a.m.

Response to post #52: We don't know if Scott ever had such duties, and if he did, whether he abused his position. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 11:35 a.m.

Response to posts #s 53-57: The CalPERS study is interesting. There must be others. I agree that the widespread belief that police and fire personnel have shorter lifespans is questionable. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 11:43 a.m.

Response to posts #s 58-63: There is no question that military people who serve in the front lines are underpaid and have low pensions, even though they can retire after 20 years. They are REALLY putting their lives on the line and do have shorter lifespans. On the other hand, some military jobs are cushy and the retirements fat considering what the people do. The military abbeylubbers get far more than they deserve. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 11:45 a.m.

Response to posts #s 64-67: It's not just conservatives who realize that states and municipalities are broke. Intelligent liberals do, too. These are facts that simply cannot be denied, whatever one's ideology. Best, Don Bauder

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nan shartel Oct. 1, 2010 @ 12:42 p.m.

from da puppy

We're going broke at every level in this state over public employee pay and benefits-and the ONLY way to stop it is going to be thru the ballot box.

is there really anyone to vote for puppy or anything to vote for that will stand up against the kind of crappe (French u know)...those slimy beasts could slip under any rules to continue their rampantly Greedy behavior...and anyone who would take the task on would be bypassed and buried in the dust of moneyed up non disclosure and yellow journalism rhetoric

the mind...even the young mind can only receive information and process it at a certain speed...

the spin is ALWAYS in... personal idiosyncraties r blown up into either the perfect traits or the worst possible traits for office holder or positive votes to change things

studies...spend more money on the things we as voters and citizens already know... on government officials who earn a salary and put more taxpayer money into their pension

marches...where...on what...what good did they do...there was one hell of a ruckus in Seattle over NAFTA...Canada and Mexico still got jobs originally held by AMERICANS

the fix is in in so many areas that i ponder the value of the voters strength

throwing out the OLD bums for NEW bums won't fix this...i don't know what will fix this...when people like Carly Fiorino can say she's proud of what she did at HP


this outsourcing was done while corporations still had tax breaks...

...and say something as simple as Barbara Boxer was involve in politics for 28 years as a slam against her whole career on seat of the Senate Ethic Committee and as Majority Whip for the Democratic Party

as always there's this completely adversarial attitude of drawing out the party lines and refusing to act in the interest of citizen voters and be bi-partisan

just the basis heartlessness of her thinking and her behavior makes me sad in my votership and all of the former American HP employees pocketbooks

get out the vote!!!

i'm not against it...but how much real good will it do???

changing our dance partners doesn't seem as important as judicial rulings to solve these social ills

are these people criminals?

many of them are

but that's JMO

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nan shartel Oct. 1, 2010 @ 12:43 p.m.

and yes Don...u can be a couch potato and a studly SPUD 2

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Burwell Oct. 1, 2010 @ 12:56 p.m.

According to another blog: "Abbeylubbers were spirits who haunted the abbeys of 15th century England. They were said to be the cause of drunkenness and debauchery amongst monks. They especially haunted the abbey wine cellars."

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Burwell Oct. 1, 2010 @ 1:26 p.m.

I question whether the country can really afford to offer many of the benefits so called "veterans" receive. An 18 year old kid enlists in the Navy for two years primarily because he wants to travel on an aircraft carrier and carouse in the fleshpots of Asia. After only two years of active duty, he is entitled to free health care from the VA for the rest of his life, not to mention almost unlimited benefits for disabilities that may later arise that are not even connected to his military "service". Veterans who serve in combat and careerists who put in 20 years have certainly earned these benefits, but enlistees who only serve a few years and have faced no danger or combat should not automatically receive free health care and disability insurance for the rest of their lives.

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David Dodd Oct. 1, 2010 @ 1:45 p.m.

Re #81: I believe that minimum service in the Navy and Marine Corps is four years. The Army is three years, but I know that in the Army if you sign up for a three-year hitch you are automatically in the Army National Guard for another three. At this point in time, your Guard duty will include deployment.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 1, 2010 @ 1:56 p.m.

After only two years of active duty, he is entitled to free health care from the VA for the rest of his life, not to mention almost unlimited benefits for disabilities that may later arise that are not even connected to his military "service".

The Army offered the 2 year enlistment back in the 80's, but it was just too costly and was dropped fairly fast, for many reasons, including the GI bill.

I agree, to get the life healthcare amd other benefits the enlistment should be a minimum of 4 years.

Looking back, I was unable to finish my 4 year college degree untila number of years after getting my associates degree due to costs, and the 2 year Army hitch would have been the smart move, but that is another story.

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David Dodd Oct. 1, 2010 @ 2:33 p.m.

My son did three years in the Army and then three in the reserves, but spent most of his time deployed in Iraq. The only fun he had was when he was stationed in Germany, schooling for tank recovery and repair. They don't make a lot of money, and the work isn't for cupcakes. Plus, there's the whole getting shot at thing. He lost a couple of pals there to RPG's.

I think if you serve your country for four years, then health care is appropriate, along with paid schooling which he is now taking advantage of. He also works, and he uses his health care through his employer. I believe he's studying to become an EMT, working full time and taking night courses.

I never joined the service because there weren't any wars going on - I was too young for Viet Nam and too old for Desert Storm. In between, there wasn't a need. I don't regret it. I don't need to see the world. I see enough from where I'm at.

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nan shartel Oct. 1, 2010 @ 2:39 p.m.

from Burwell

I question whether the country can really afford to offer many of the benefits so called "veterans" receive. An 18 year old kid enlists in the Navy for two years primarily because he wants to travel on an aircraft carrier and carouse in the fleshpots of Asia. After only two years of active duty, he is entitled to free health care from the VA for the rest of his life, not to mention almost unlimited benefits for disabilities that may later arise that are not even connected to his military "service". Veterans who serve in combat and careerists who put in 20 years have certainly earned these benefits, but enlistees who only serve a few years and have faced no danger or combat should not automatically receive free health care and disability insurance for the rest of their lives.

====================================

come back with missing limbs and PTSD then tell me about it Burwell....do u know how many weekend warriors in the National Guard left good job to earn a pittance of their previous salary to go to Afghanistan and Iraq...that war is 8 years long now

"and carouse in the fleshpots of Asia"???

my oh my..............painting all of those 18 year old with the same brush hurts me in my "support our troops" vein Burwell

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 1, 2010 @ 2:52 p.m.

I was too young for Viet Nam and too old for Desert Storm

I tried to enlist in the Iraq war a few years back but was past the age limit, which is BS. There should be no age limit-it should be criteria based testing.

If you can pass the tests-be it physical or mental, then you should be allowed in.

When I came out of HS the ony people who went into the military-at least from my area and the mind set of that area- were the ones who were not smart enough for college or were complete losers, and virtually all of us viewed it as a place of last resort for losers........Hard to believe I was so ignorant and misinformed back then.

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 4:21 p.m.

Response to post #77: There were two criminal cases over the City's pension mess and the deliberate concealing thereof. But the cases couldn't get past corruption-friendly judges. The state high court said the DA could pursue one case, but, hardly surprisingly, she didn't. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 4:23 p.m.

Response to posts #s 78 & 79: A stud on the couch. Hmm. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 4:28 p.m.

Response to post #80: I think it was Sam Johnson who coined the word abbeylubber. I always thought of an abbeylubber as a lazy, dissolute monk who spent his life in a monastery, purportedly to worship but actually to loaf all day and guzzle wine. I have always loved the word. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 4:33 p.m.

Response to post #81: In my military days, (1950s-early 1960s) there was still a draft. And there was nothing inviting about any options. Six months in the Reserves or National Guard plus another 5.5 years as a weekend warrior, or two years as a draftee with another two years in Reserves. That was in the Army. Navy enlistees went in for four years. When the draft was suspended, some of the benefits were offered to attract young men. (Then it was just men.) Best, Don Bauder

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Founder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:04 p.m.

Reply #67 "Still no "given" name posted from CC as yet? ... Why must you $TILL continue with the double standard?"

+

Here is the link, enjoy: http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/np-star/2010/aug/06/what-does-it-cost-to-run-sd-per-day/#c69057

and no it doesn't include the Redevelopment Agency "black hole"...

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Founder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:08 p.m.

SP I'd like to think you are serving your City (and Country) right now, helping debunk the whining of our elected Leaders and their $UPPORTERS, that are too full of themselves to realize that they are already dipping their beak into our City's funds too much...

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:14 p.m.

Response to post #82: I shudder when I think of National Guard units in the front lines. The units I was in couldn't have waged war with a battalion of blind nonagenarians. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:18 p.m.

Response to post #82: And then after you are injured, perhaps permanently, the U.S. military screws you out of responsible treatment. This is reprehensible. A lot has been written on it, and I recommend it to anyone. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:21 p.m.

Response to post #83: Posters are talking about medical benefits that combat veterans (or other veterans) are SUPPOSED to receive. But, tragically, the military has tricks to deny wounded military people the care that we as a society owe them. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:23 p.m.

Response to post #84: When I was wrapping up active duty in 1959, some of my company members were being sent to a country nobody had heard of. Later, it was clear it was Vietnam. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:25 p.m.

Response to post #85: I'm sure Burwell didn't intend to paint everybody with the same brush. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:27 p.m.

Response to post #86: In your last sentence, you have unknowingly set up JW for a nasty riposte. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:29 p.m.

Response to post #91: You deserve a reply. However, I am not sure that your focus on debt tells the story. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:30 p.m.

Response to post #92: Those leaders have a straw in the punch bowl. Best, Don Bauder

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:42 p.m.

In your last sentence, you have unknowingly set up JW for a nasty riposte.

Is there any other kind of reply from JC/JW??

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nan shartel Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:47 p.m.

93

hahahahahahahahahahaahhahaha agreed Don....

and puppy there were lots of LOSERs in the National Guard...some with such marginal lives they had to hide out and slept and scounge meals at the armory...young guys who couldn't find work in already Bankrupt Oregon..mostly good kids..not completely grown up yet..many like the jerk who didn't know sh*t from Shinola

and they went...and some later came home with shiny knew metal or plastic limbs... shrapnel irretrievably lodged in their brains...not complaining...they knew that was possibly what they signed up for

some bragging about how they made it thru and even proud of their units and what they'd done

i'm a dove...i hate war...but Veterans from the first World War on have never been treated well by the country they went to serve...we own them so much more then we give...that seated government gives them...promises promises promises...

sometimes i wonder if those who run for office have to take a test to see how well they can lie

my HB is a 30 year retiree from 3 branches of the service...hey the last billet with the National Guard was to make the weekend money we so desperately needed to prop up our $7000 a year income

he was already nearly to old to go into the National Guard....but when they wanted special security in the Gaza Strip his age didn't matter because he had the necessary MOS's to go

i don't think his intention was to carouse...but...hahahahahahahaha...i can't say that for sure

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nan shartel Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:48 p.m.

so Don...does that mean u were in Korea???

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nan shartel Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:53 p.m.

and puppy u can share my surfboard any day READER warrior!!!

and bring ur big dog 2!!!

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nan shartel Oct. 1, 2010 @ 5:56 p.m.

sorry Burwell....Don say's u didn't mean to be so brusque...u have every right to express ur opinion

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nan shartel Oct. 1, 2010 @ 6 p.m.

and Don i'm sure u remember the word clusterf*ck affectionately...hahahahahaha

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Founder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 6:29 p.m.

I'd like to see the Reader do a survey about "Howd'ya Like to Retire with $300,000 a Year of Taxpayer Moolah"...

That would really raise this issues "visibility" and that would be very beneficial at least for those NOT making huge amounts of money...

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Burwell Oct. 1, 2010 @ 9:54 p.m.

I believe that Nan has reading comprehension problems. I clearly stated in my posting that military retirees and those who serve in combat should receive life time health insurance. Therefore Nan's implication that I would deny benefits to injured veterans is idiotic. When an enlistee leaves the military his or her service should be evaluated to assess the level of risk and danger he or she faced, and only those who were deployed in a combat zone should be entitled to free health care for life.

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 9:56 p.m.

Response to post #101: You have a tart tongue at times, too. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 9:59 p.m.

Response to post #102: World War II vets returned home to heroes' welcomes. But that wasn't true for Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan wars. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 10:01 p.m.

Response to posts #s 103-106: I was in high school during the Korean War. I missed it and Vietnam. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 10:03 p.m.

Response to post #107: Well, we did the next best thing by publishing the retirement pay of 400 for City of San Diego employees. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 1, 2010 @ 10:06 p.m.

Response to post #108: That would be a fair way to adjust medical care for military personnel. The City of San Diego could do the same with safety retirees. Police who are shot and incapacitated on duty definitely deserve lifetime medical coverage. The same is true of firefighters who are injured on the job. But others do not deserve the kind of retirements and medical care they get, and the City cannot afford to pay them. Best, Don Bauder

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andrews563 Oct. 2, 2010 @ 10:33 a.m.

These are actually UNDERSTATED amounts. Since many retirees did not elect DROP annuities, but took lump sums instead.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 2, 2010 @ 11:15 a.m.

Police who are shot and incapacitated on duty definitely deserve lifetime medical coverage. The same is true of firefighters who are injured on the job.

One BIG problem at virtually ALL muni's is that they deem many health rproblems to be a direct result of the safety job with no supporting proof whatsoever. Such as heart disease, lung disease, cancer.........there is no correlation between these health problems and the public safety jobs, yet they are deemed to be a cause and disability pensions are given for them....

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JustWondering Oct. 2, 2010 @ 12:18 p.m.

Don,

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Even though the Pupster open the door wide enough to drive a Mack truck through, I won't sink to his level of sniping.

While we may often disagree, I prefer civility and honest debate as long as facts remain facts, not fantasy or wildly spun distortions of the truth.

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Ponzi Oct. 2, 2010 @ 1:57 p.m.

The frustration I feel when I hear the “hero” word thrown around all the time when it comes to police and firefighters is that it dilutes the meaning of being a hero. Public safety personnel are indeed “courageous,” but few are ever “heroes.”

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nan shartel Oct. 2, 2010 @ 2:45 p.m.

i wonder about a guy who attacks and insinuate comprehension difficulties about a woman who just apologised to him Burwell...

i write on more then one level..please try to read it that way...

and i don't think even with Don's promptings u'll ever get another apology from me:-=)

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Don Bauder Oct. 2, 2010 @ 4:05 p.m.

Response to post #114: That's a good point for discussion. It seems to me that those taking the annuity swell the amount owed by the City more than those taking the lump sum. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 2, 2010 @ 4:07 p.m.

Response to post #115: This is a valid criticism. The employee will get disability and an even earlier retirement whether he/she deserves it or not. It's a long-running scandal in cities such as New York. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 2, 2010 @ 4:10 p.m.

Response to post #116: I agree with you. Adding up total debt is not accurate in measuring day to day cost of running any city. Debt service (NOT total debt) is one daily expense, but others are not related to debt. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 2, 2010 @ 4:12 p.m.

Response to post #117: Actually, you have aimed some sharp invective darts at the Pup. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 2, 2010 @ 4:15 p.m.

Response to post #118: The firefighter who goes into a burning home to rescue a resident is a hero. So is a member of the police force who risks taking gunfire to save someone. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 2, 2010 @ 4:16 p.m.

Response to post #119: How do you know that Burwell is a guy? Best, Don Bauder

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 2, 2010 @ 4:36 p.m.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Even though the Pupster open the door wide enough to drive a Mack truck through, I won't sink to his level of sniping.

Are you for real JustClueless???

You're already in the cellar, always have been.

PS, I'm not worried about you driving a Mac truck, in fact I would bet you would have trouble navigating a go-kart!

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 2, 2010 @ 4:39 p.m.

Based on the Jan 2010 population estimate of 1.35 million and a $2.91 billion budget, that's roughly $2200 per resident being spent to “run” San Diego.

That is an eye popping number, given it is JUST the City, not including County or State servicing costs- I wonder what the cost would be if SDUSD were included?? Bump it by 50% I bet.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 2, 2010 @ 4:53 p.m.

The firefighter who goes into a burning home to rescue a resident is a hero. So is a member of the police force who risks taking gunfire to save someone.

Those are indeed legit hero's.

I think the LAPD cops in the 1997 North Hollywood B of A bank robbery shoot out- with the much heavily armed dual bank robbers- are what I would call hero's. All of them.

I will always have that image of the LAPD SWAT team rolling up on the last bank robber, who was armed with a fully automatic AK-47 with a 100+ round clip in it, and just unleashing hundreds of rounds (from both the LAPD and the bank robber) within a matter of seconds..... with glass and bullet holes all over the truck the robber was carjacking, as well as the LAPD car.

Now those guys TRULY put their life on the line.

I find it amazing, to this day, that no one was killed in that shoot out except the bank robbers (BTW-the guy in the shorts is the SWAT team commander, he just retired from the LAPD last week); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejD1Gm... .

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Founder Oct. 2, 2010 @ 6:53 p.m.

Reply #116

Practice what your "preach" ""Still no "given" name posted from CC as yet? ... Why must you $TILL continue with the double standard?"

+

$600,000 or $8,000,000 A DAY it's still way too much,

JUST LIKE WHAT WE ARE PAYING OUR RETIRED FOLKS BECAUSE OF "DEAL$"!

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 2, 2010 @ 10:24 p.m.

JUST LIKE WHAT WE ARE PAYING OUR RETIRED FOLKS BECAUSE OF "DEAL$"!

Deals Paying TOO MUCH $$$$$

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Don Bauder Oct. 2, 2010 @ 11:31 p.m.

Response to post #126: Aim those trucks at each other. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 2, 2010 @ 11:33 p.m.

Response to post #127: We need to do more homework on these numbers. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 2, 2010 @ 11:35 p.m.

Response to post #128: There ARE heroic deeds, and they should be recognized and rewarded. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 2, 2010 @ 11:36 p.m.

Response to post 129: Posters are not required to give their names. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 2, 2010 @ 11:38 p.m.

Response to post #130: Click above and see what retirees are paid monthly. Best, Don Bauder

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Founder Oct. 3, 2010 @ 8:03 a.m.

Reply #134

When they insist on posting other's names they should also give their own...

If folks don't want to use or at least post their own name when requested, then they should not list other bloggers "given" names...

Why should The Reader support a double standard for "some" of it's bloggers?

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Don Bauder Oct. 3, 2010 @ 9:48 a.m.

Response to post #136: Don't blame the Reader for this foofaraw. We'll be on the sidelines while you two work it out. Best, Don Bauder

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nan shartel Oct. 3, 2010 @ 1:46 p.m.

125

i don't Don...and interestingly i'd feel the same way about a woman who acted that way after an apology

but today's another day so i'll just carry on...and i'm requesting that CC change his name to eruditeintelligenthunk and u Don change urs to poohspellbindster

nah.... that'll never work

so what's the deal with this insistence on peoples real names anyway???

in 11 years of blogging i've been

wonderwoman

nanza

rip

Rdog

and Phoebe

written as either a man or a woman

with no one knowing or upset about them

this is the first time i've used my own name instead of Natalie or Natasha

both of which my name is derived from

i like real names...but other names don't bother me either

even tho i know u by 3 names Founder...i'm not bothered by it

ah well...that said...back to those really dastardly pension issues

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Founder Oct. 3, 2010 @ 2:05 p.m.

Reply #139 Still no "given" name posted from CC as yet? ... Why must you continue with the double standard?

Taking the effort to find Bloggers given names to post in a separate Blog and then not posting your own is "suspect" and if you don't like it then too bad, don't post others Bloggers names. So the "game" continues; Still no "given" name posted from CC as yet? .... Why must you continue with the double standard?

And as far a your "name calling" quote: "Somewhere, some village has lost their idiot. Would they like him back?" (and general arrogant attitude goes); I suggest that you (again) look in the mirror for guidance...

Pension Woes will continue for all those that have taken far more than they have given and I hope the City goes Bankrupt ASAP; so we the voters of SD can again enjoy a "normal" fiscal situation instead of a Black Hole...

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Founder Oct. 3, 2010 @ 3:59 p.m.

Reply CC, you're real fast to sling names but still real slow to answer with yours...PITY

I suggest you do ask your " g/f's sister is a psychologist and I wonder what significance she would say that bears; something phallic perhaps? Or maybe it just means you're a danger zone. " and if she's any good, I bet she'll ask you a few questions too... Let us know what she says, if you feel like sharing...

Now back to the Question: "Howd'ya Like to Retire with $300,000 a Year of Taxpayer Moolah" I'd feel guilty and I predict that other Big Earners will also and I encourage all of them to suggest retirement reductions before they are asked...

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 3, 2010 @ 4:03 p.m.

wonderwoman

Rdog

By nan

I like "Wonderwoman", and I love "Rdog".

Can you please model the WW outfit for me Nan????

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Don Bauder Oct. 3, 2010 @ 9:30 p.m.

Response to post #138: I don't think any school district budget should be added to a city budget anywhere in California, given the financing structure. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 3, 2010 @ 9:34 p.m.

Response to post #139: I don't know who jayallen, nan, refriedgringo or dozens of others are. I have no way to find out, and no desire to do so. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 3, 2010 @ 9:37 p.m.

Response to post #140: From age one through graduate school, I was known as Buddy, Bud, Bawdy Butter, and several other related monikers. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 3, 2010 @ 9:39 p.m.

Response to post #141: When the City of San Diego files for bankruptcy, all the citizens can strut around and call themselves "Bankr." Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 3, 2010 @ 9:42 p.m.

Response to post #142: Congratulations on watching the Chargers score. Why couldn't you have watched the Padres game? Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 3, 2010 @ 9:44 p.m.

Response to post #143: Tried for which name? Phoebe? She's the little sister in Gilbert & Sullivan's Yeomen of the Guard. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 3, 2010 @ 9:47 p.m.

Response to post #144: Having one's girlfriend's sister as your psychologist could save money. On the other hand, you might not want to 'fess everything to your girlfriend's sister. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 3, 2010 @ 9:49 p.m.

Response to post #145: I think Wonderwoman is apt. She is, after all, flexing her muscles in her picture. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 4, 2010 @ 9:34 a.m.

Response to post #154: Yours is a very perceptive post. We have two sons -- no daughters. I was raised in a family with two sons, no daughters. In fact, I have a cousin about eight years older than I am who was the first girl born in the family in 200 years. The previous girl had been captured and raised by Indians in the 1730s. My father came from a family of four boys and his father came from a family of five boys. I don't know if there is a genetic component in this or whether it is a statistical freak. Best, Don Bauder

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paul Oct. 4, 2010 @ 10:13 a.m.

Response to #13456 "If you think SD numbers are eye popping, you should take a look at NYC’s numbers."

In 2007-2008 San Diego was around $16,000 per pupil, which is not far behind New York at $17,696.

It's more eye-popping to look at the real cost of education per pupil, by including all costs (in particular, bond measures). They don't have specific numbers for San Diego, but:

The 2008 New York publicly stated budget was $17,696 per pupil. The Cato Institue calculated an actual value of $21,543.

Los Angeles claimed $10,053 per pupil. The Cato Institute calculated an astonishing actual figure of over $25,000 per pupil.

From the study: "Although California is considered a relatively low-spending state when it comes to education, the Los Angeles metro area comes in third place for average real spending in our study. The average real per-pupil spending figure of $19,000 (for California) is a stunning 90 percent higher than the $10,000 the districts claim to spend. In addition, real public school spending is 127% higher than the estimated median private school spending of $8,400."

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa662.pdf

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Founder Oct. 4, 2010 @ 10:36 a.m.

Reply #156 Perfect Post Paul!

As Deep Throat said, "Follow the money"...

As voters are now learning, "Throwing money at a problem only benefits the Greedy folks that are causing the problems"!

If we had an educational system that rewarded Administrators,Teachers, Staff and Students for excellence and also penalized those that did poorly, then we would see test score zoom upward and waste plummet.

Our City, County and State needs to change both the way it does Business and also those it does Business with!

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nan shartel Oct. 4, 2010 @ 12:44 p.m.

Phoebe was actually my Border Collie's name...and i loved signing Pheebs to everyone...one of the first friends i made was a guy in Canada who was crazy about FRIENDS...i gave that prankster the name Mr Canucklehead...which stuck and he loved it...we r still good friend 11 years later

pupsters i'll have to go out and buy many veal cutlets to show u a picture of me as Wonderwoman ;)

shade of Lady Gaga....hahahahahahahahahahahaha

and Bawdy Bauder i bet u were a funster in ur younger day...now ur just a connoisseur of illicit political conundrums and studly couch potato...hahahahahahaha

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 4, 2010 @ 1:03 p.m.

In fact, I have a cousin about eight years older than I am who was the first girl born in the family in 200 years. The previous girl had been captured and raised by Indians in the 1730s.

That is truly amazing you can track yor family history back that far-that is pretty cool.

Wish I could do that.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 4, 2010 @ 1:12 p.m.

It's more eye-popping to look at the real cost of education per pupil, by including all costs (in particular, bond measures). They don't have specific numbers for San Diego, but:

The 2008 New York publicly stated budget was $17,696 per pupil. The Cato Institue calculated an actual value of $21,543.

Los Angeles claimed $10,053 per pupil. The Cato Institute calculated an astonishing actual figure of over $25,000 per pupil. =========== Yes, you add in ALL of the costs for education (read teacher comp b/c 80% of the education budget goes to employee costs) and it is crazy-you certainly do not get much bang for the $$$$$.

Of course when you're spending $600 million on just ONE SINGLE high school, like Los Angeles just did-you are really just throwing money down the drain.

Who in their right mind would spend more than half a billion for a single public school???? Only gov employees would. They have no accountability whatsoever.

This is not even mentioning the the $300 million LAUSD spent on the Belmont HS/Learning Center, which was built on toxic oil and gas reserves and was hundreds of million over budget and 5 years late to open...I mean why on earth would anyone want to keep education in the gov's hands after these multitudes of screw ups???????

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Founder Oct. 4, 2010 @ 1:19 p.m.

Reply #160 Where we see educational waste, (like in SWC)

the Fat Cats and their Politico's see "Moolah"...

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 4, 2010 @ 2:28 p.m.

Back to the pension scam/mess, we need to CUT the pay of current employees-since we cannot cut their 3%@50 pension, and we need a second tier pension for ALL new employees.

We are out of money, so is the state-all CA muni's are broke, and that is not changing for many, many years to come. Anyone who understands the origins of our current meltdown – which was NOT a cyclical economic event – knows that.

Manufactured economic bubbles fueled a large part of our GDP in the last decade because we are losing the economic war to emerging global competitors. We just don’t have the capacity to produce the GDP necessary to maintain our former lifestyles. And all gov's, whether local, state or federal, rely upon the private sector to drive GDP so they can stay flush in cash (OPM). Sorry, those days are over. And their ability to tax will deteriorate as citizens continue to lose their ability to pay. Think Japan. Rough seas ahead, we're going under I'm afraid because no one is willing to stand up and fight the public employees/unions.

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Founder Oct. 4, 2010 @ 4:56 p.m.

Reply #162 You comments will become the Battle Cry of all future election discussions!

I have suggested using as an example Great Britain (after the Revolutionary War instead of Japan as you did.

Sadly the America, "we" grew up in has now morphed into a Greed based democracy, that is being represented and governed by Wealthy Business supported Legislators who are looking out for themselves not the Public in general!

I'm interested in calling all our Leaders "to task" and ask them to do their jobs, which we are paying them big bucks for! Every day we wait for "change" our City become much poorer!

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Don Bauder Oct. 5, 2010 @ 9:50 p.m.

Response to post #156: Cato has a Libertarian axe to grind but it is a highly reputable think tank. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 5, 2010 @ 9:52 p.m.

Response to post #157: I think a state that is insolvent has to ask itself some tough questions. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 5, 2010 @ 9:55 p.m.

Response to post #158: Yes, I still have fun in my dotage, bawdy or not. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 5, 2010 @ 9:58 p.m.

Response to post #159: That's on my father's side. Those folks came from Germany in the 1730s. We can trace my mother's side to the Boston Bay Colony in the 1630s. Three brothers came from England. One was hanged for killing Indians. I always tell people I would prefer to have been descended from someone who was hung than someone who was hanged. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 5, 2010 @ 10:01 p.m.

Response to post #160: If government is going to spend too much money in some area, I would prefer to see it education. Yes, there is some waste, but on balance, the nation underspends on education. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 5, 2010 @ 10:03 p.m.

Response to post #161: The so-called Fat Cats (American corporations) would actually benefit greatly if the nation spent more of its resources on education. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 5, 2010 @ 10:07 p.m.

Response to post #162: Yes, we must fight unions representing public employees, but we must also fight corporate greed. The latter is a bigger source of our malaise and continuing national economic decline. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 5, 2010 @ 10:09 p.m.

Response to post #163: Yes, legislators look out for themselves first. This isn't the first time the U.S. has been plagued by this problem. Best, Don Bauder

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nan shartel Oct. 7, 2010 @ 3:31 p.m.

i thought the Unions were mostly hang dog dead Don.....ya mean they still have their boxing gloves on???

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nan shartel Oct. 7, 2010 @ 3:33 p.m.

158...don't u be talking about dotage now Don...we's got lots of light burning...;)

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JoeFriday Oct. 8, 2010 @ 8:39 a.m.

Back to the pension scam/mess, we need to CUT the pay of current employees-since we cannot cut their 3%@50 pension, and we need a second tier pension for ALL new employees.

Been a while since I bothered to stop in here. I'm glad to see that my old buddy Johnny Vegas has finally realized that attempting to cut vested pensions is tilting windmills.

His cut the pay of current employees idea appears to be a talking point straight from DeMaio's latest bright idea. However, it has a few issues that I'm not sure he realizes.

The ARC, or Annual Required Contribution, is based on current salary. The pension is based on high one year. If you cut salaries, you'll still pay a pension based on the higher salary. But you'll make payments based on the lower salary. That's a recipe for failure.

Pensions have already been cut for most new city employees, and will be cut for all new city employees if Prop D passes. This will present savings in the future, but it will take time. It took time to get into this mess and it will take time to get out.

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Don Bauder Oct. 8, 2010 @ 6:48 p.m.

Response to post #172: Private sector unions are moribund -- representing only 7% of private sector workers. But public sector workers represent more than one-fourth of government employees. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 8, 2010 @ 6:49 p.m.

Response to post #173: I'll let you know when the lights burn out. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 8, 2010 @ 6:52 p.m.

Response to post #174: Cutting pensions of new employees is a drop in the bucket. Best, Don Bauder

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 9, 2010 @ 8:34 a.m.

Been a while since I bothered to stop in here. I'm glad to see that my old buddy Johnny Vegas has finally realized that attempting to cut vested pensions is tilting windmills.

Errrr...right-that is what they said in Pritchard Alabama too, watch and cry, this is you in a few more years Joey!! http://www.clipsyndicate.com/video/play/1470765/5_20_prichard_pension_plan .

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 9, 2010 @ 8:44 a.m.

His cut the pay of current employees idea appears to be a talking point straight from DeMaio's latest bright idea. However, it has a few issues that I'm not sure he realizes.

The ARC, or Annual Required Contribution, is based on current salary. The pension is based on high one year. If you cut salaries, you'll still pay a pension based on the higher salary. But you'll make payments based on the lower salary. That's a recipe for failure.

OK, I have to educate our brilliant GED educated cops one more time it looks like, because they still try to pull their little scams no matter how many times that get spanked, so here goes.

JoeySunday- ANY loss in pension contributions made from LOWERING the pay, would be made up by a factor of 4-1 by the lower salary costs.

Here, let me expain this so your pea sized brain can understand it, if a cop or ff makes $100K per year, the pension contribution from the city is $30K (just for argument we will use 30%). You cut the pay 25% down to $75K and the pension payment is $22.5K, so yes, there is a pension contribution loss of $7.5K, BUT you have a $25K savings on the lower salary....OK Joey.....time to put your little thinking cap on, $25K-$7.5K= savings of $17,500 AFTER the pension contribution is made based on the $100K salary.

Get it Einstein Junior!

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Founder Oct. 9, 2010 @ 7:24 p.m.

Reply #174 RE: "The pension is based on high one year" BUT After Bankruptcy that may also be "history" so don't bet the farm on that...

Bankruptcy will make San Diego "whole" again , as in a "whole" lot different!

Vote No on D and say Bye Bye to Greed in SD!

The Buck stops here...

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Don Bauder Oct. 9, 2010 @ 10:28 p.m.

Response to post #178: If you have no other option, tilting at windmills may be the only thing you can do. And if a city is broke and cutting all its services, you might just beat the windmill. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 9, 2010 @ 10:31 p.m.

Response to post #179: You criticize him for using invective and then call him a pea brain. Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 9, 2010 @ 10:33 p.m.

Response to poset #180: Saying good-bye to greed is about as likely as saying good-bye to lust. Best, Don Bauder

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 10, 2010 @ 8:43 a.m.

You criticize him for using invective and then call him a pea brain.

I cannot help it, I have seen these people lie, scam and steal for so long now it makes my blood boil.

They ALWAYS try to come out with some baloney talking point so they can keep these ridiculous, unsustainable comp packages-while everyone else is going hungry, homeless nad losing the shirts off their backs.

If you are pulling down more than $100K in comp you are in the top 7% in the nation, if you're pulling down more than $2000K you're in the top 3%, therefore the ENTIRE PD and FD in this city is in the top 7%, and it is likely that ALL of them are in, or very close to, the top 3% when OT is added in.

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JoeFriday Oct. 10, 2010 @ 9:59 a.m.

Here, let me expain this so your pea sized brain can understand it, if a cop or ff makes $100K per year, the pension contribution from the city is $30K (just for argument we will use 30%). You cut the pay 25% down to $75K and the pension payment is $22.5K, so yes, there is a pension contribution loss of $7.5K, BUT you have a $25K savings on the lower salary....OK Joey.....time to put your little thinking cap on, $25K-$7.5K= savings of $17,500 AFTER the pension contribution is made based on the $100K salary.

Yep. That helps the city out. What about SDCERS? It still hasn't dawned on you that they're two separate entities.

How does paying less into SDCERS help out the unfunded liability? SDCERS is largely funded by investment gains. If you don't put the capital in, you can't make the gains. If the unfunded liability goes up, the ARC goes up. The city pays more.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 10, 2010 @ 4:16 p.m.

Yep. That helps the city out. What about SDCERS? It still hasn't dawned on you that they're two separate entities.

Wow, nice deflection from me destroying your bogus claim...you want to talk about both city and county-no problemo.....it obivously applies to BOTH city and county, or did that not occur to you??

My comment was you cut the salary, you save big $$$$, and you take the savings from that cut and shore up the pension fund/s, that was my point..... then YOU claimed that would NOT save any money-I debunked that lie and you know it, so now you deflect and spin . .

How does paying less into SDCERS help out the unfunded liability? SDCERS is largely funded by investment gains. If you don't put the capital in, you can't make the gains.

1, who said anything about paying less???????....I never said oen thing about paying in less, in fact I said the opposite, we could fund these pensions with a 25% pay cut to the high wage earners-specicifally PD and FD.....as for investment gains, BOTH pension systems have been a joke the last 5 years, what were they, 1.5% ROI????? Most of the pension fund is currently being funded by the taxpayers, the small portion the employee pays-if they pay anything at all (many pay nothing, their portion is "picked up" by the city)-is minimal, as are the ROI on the portfolio.

. . . If the unfunded liability goes up, the ARC goes up. The city pays more ==================== Thank you Captain Obvious.

And guess what Captain-the MORE you pay with every pay raise the MORE the pension costs!! So you FREEZE the pay rate or better yet do what I said-CUT IT, then you can fix the pension problem. Right now when we cannot even pay the current pension costs- it is painfully obvious that the ARC is also going up if you keep giving out raises. First rule when you're in the hole, STOP DIGGING ( no more raises).

I just told you my plan, what I would do, and as I have proven it would work- now if you have a better idea, please put it out here.

And taxes are not going up, not happening, so don't plan on having your millionaire pensions being funded by taxing the poor and middle class, Prop H is going down.

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Don Bauder Oct. 11, 2010 @ 8:34 p.m.

Response to post #184: They're bringing down that kind of money and you call them pea brains? They're gaming the system, but thus far they have gotten away with it. (I am not assuming your arithmetic is correct on this one.) Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 11, 2010 @ 8:37 p.m.

Response to post #185: What happened to those investment gains, anyway? Best, Don Bauder

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Don Bauder Oct. 11, 2010 @ 8:39 p.m.

Response to post #186: At this point, it appears Prop. D is lagging. Best, Don Bauder

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stefie444 May 24, 2012 @ 5:14 p.m.

How overall misleading to post a list of city employees that are all unclassified management level positions. They are not the classified employees - the ones you all depend on to take care of city services. They do not get anything even close to those kinds of figures - that are being used as a scapegoat to pass off policies that will simply give the elected officials free rein to give themselves whatever they want. This so-called pension "reform" will do away with the current policies that include checks and balances. If they want to stop handing out excessive retirement payments, try simply looking at the range of payments for unclassified positions (retired and currently employed) and creating appropriate guidelines to eliminate the Mayor and other officials approving excessive salaries and retirement benefits for these positions. Your everyday classified employees are entitled to a reasonable retirement amount and that's all they get. If you want to know the truth, it's easy to get a list of what the average retiree makes. As usual, politicians have no problem using scapegoats to accomplish their true agenda.... promoting their careers and protecting their interests. All at the expense of what used to be a dynamic organization with public servants that actually cared. Some day in the not too distant future you will call the city for something and no one will care because they won't be working for you. They will all be privately contracted companies that will get contracts because they know the right people. Wake up people.

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