• Scam Diego alerts

San Diego County fire agencies this year are spending $152.85 per resident on firefighting, while Orange County spends $177.98 and Los Angeles County $217.71, according to a study by W. Erik Bruvold of the National University System Institute for Policy Research. When the numbers are adjusted for state agency CALFIRE's firefighting in the back country, San Diego still spends less: $161.66 per capita vs. Orange's $177.98 and L.A.'s $217.71. San Diego County has 8.5 fire department employees for every 10,000 residents vs. 9.01 in Orange County and 11.03 in L.A. Bruvold's study notes that while there are differences among the three counties, there are "striking similarities" relevant to firefighting, such as steep canyons and valleys and several days of extremely hot weather accompanied by strong, dry off-shore winds.

There is an opinion that "all is well" among those making decisions about San Diego firefighting expenditures, says Bruvold. San Diegans living at the edge of the urban-wild land have to hope that their leaders are correct, he says.

Using 2007-2008 data, Bruvold also found that San Diego jurisdictions invested $400 per capita in police services and corrections vs. $460 in Orange and $597 in L.A.

  • Scam Diego alerts

Comments

Visduh Aug. 31, 2010 @ 9:31 p.m.

Doesn't Orange County have one countywide fire department? It is a small county and unless I'm mistaken, has had this arrangement for many decades. That should mean that those areas that are rural or on the urban-wild edge should be getting protection that is more or less the same as urban dwellers. In SD County, there are rural areas that have only sketchy fire coverage, depending upon volunteer fire departments or on CALFIRE. Perhaps the disparity is partly due to that difference. And it seems as if a consolidated, countywide effort could and should be more effective than a couple dozen fragmented fire departments.

0

SurfPuppy619 Aug. 31, 2010 @ 10:35 p.m.

FFer jobs should have comp cut in half.

It is basic supply/demand.

As long as you have 1,000 applicants applying for every ONE FF job, you can cut the comp, and keep cutting it until you don't get qualified applicants, which would NEVER happen, not in this economy, even at minimum wage with no fringes........

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 7:10 a.m.

Response to post #1: San Diego County has been trying to achieve more consolidation, or at least cooperation, among its fragmented departments. I guess the next fire will tell how successful those efforts have been. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 7:11 a.m.

Response to post #2: Compensation should certainly be cut sharply if huge pension cuts cannot be achieved. Best, Don Bauder

0

Founder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 7:51 a.m.

Reply #2 I'm with you, except I'd apply your "FFer jobs should have comp cut in half" to all City employees ASAP...

San Diego's financial situation is in big trouble and the City should make hiring and salary cuts yesterday...

When I heard about the ½ % sales tax "ISSUE", I realized that most of our Leaders (the ones that voted to put that on the ballot) JUST DON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT WHAT IT IS GOING TO TAKE TO GET SD OUT OF THE TOILET and or the guts to make those hard decisions despite what they have promised their Big Union supporters, who got them elected...

0

Founder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 8:03 a.m.

Reply #1 To me CALFIRE showed their true colors when they started foot dragging during our last big fires keeping the Military pilots from flying water dropping missions AND also not letting them do it at NIGHT when CALFIRE was not flying! This is all about MONEY, HUGE OVERTIME MONEY and CALFIRE should have a citizen's review Board chosen at random (and not appointed to ex-fire retirees) to make sure they are doing everything they can do, at a fair price. Many Fire Fighter were on the clock 24x7 during the big fires even though they were sleeping "somewhere near" the blaze... I'd like to see the listing of overtime payments during both fires and bet that the second fire had much higher OT payments as FF'ers learned how to "milk the payroll system"...

This is another perfect example where trained volunteers could and should be payed and used to augment our FF'ers... It would be great if the FF'ers also had to hire "first" from the volunteers list, that way a huge number of folks would seek training like what happens with CPR and Life Saving training...

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 3:21 p.m.

Response to post #5: I have spoken to some people with their ears to the ground. They think the vote may be close. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 3:24 p.m.

Response to post #6: Are there there other large cities that use volunteers successfully? Their experience might be informative. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 3:32 p.m.

Response to post #7: According to the U.S. Census, Orange County's population in 2009 was 3.03 million. San Diego County's was 3.05 million. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 3:37 p.m.

Response to post #8: A broad cut of 50% would be draconian. But if pensions could not be chopped, 30% might be necessary. Best, Don Bauder

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 1, 2010 @ 3:44 p.m.

I have spoken to some people with their ears to the ground. They think the vote may be close.

I doubt the sales tax will win, but if it does that will be the last straw-hello Yuma!!!!!!

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 1, 2010 @ 3:45 p.m.

A broad cut of 50% would be draconian. But if pensions could not be chopped, 30% might be necessary

Not for FF's.............but cuts need to be progressive, the more you make the bigger the % cut.

0

a2zresource Sept. 1, 2010 @ 4:39 p.m.

I'll take a 50% pay cut right now.

Half of nothing is nothing.

Wow. That was amazingly painless.

0

Visduh Sept. 1, 2010 @ 5:36 p.m.

Response to Don's post #3.

The next fire will be a catastrophe, just as were the fires of 2003 and 2007. When the fuel is there and the wind howls, no number of firetrucks or firefighters can stop a fire. The only question is where there is enough brush to burn after those two conflagrations cleared out most of the fuel. (Answer: the area that burned in 1970, and which has regrown in the past forty years, was mostly spared in the more recent fires. It is already overdue for a new firestorm.)

Is anyone/anything taking steps to prevent another tragedy? Not that I know of. We may get an answer to Don's question. That next fire could happen any time. Maybe this year. Who knows? There will be big fires in our future.

0

TheGunny Sept. 1, 2010 @ 6:37 p.m.

To Founder, maybe you need to dig deeper into why the military was not flying. The C-130's that have flown in other fires could not use the airdrop system due to Calif Air Guard getting the newer model of C-130 and the MAFFS system did not fit anymore. They had to call in C-130's in from Wyoming that had the older model of C-130. The Navy Commodore that had the SH-60's trained, initially refused to put the planes into the fight, but was pressured by Navy brass to get off of his and the planes into the air. Marine pilots do not like firefighting missions. I have several friends who are CH-46/CH-53 pilots and they don't like to fly in zero visibility nor do they like operating in terrain not seen in daylight. As far as "sleeping on the fireline", I will tell you in 2007 I did not sleep until after the 1st 36 hours on the line. That is a dangerous practice of sleeping on the line, and is a poor assumpion. I did get OT, so what. I do my job to the best of my ability, not by how much I get paid. Do we have those who "milk the system", sure, every job field has them.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 1, 2010 @ 8:25 p.m.

Don, many PD's have reserve officers. For example, LAPD has over 600 reserves. A good friend of ours, one of my former store managers actually, has been a reserve officer since about 1998. She's a level III reserve officer and receives no pay. She had to go thru the academy and basically have the same qualificatios as a paid officer.

Reserve officers do NOT go through police academy training, which is anywhere from 14 weeks to 26+ weeks depending on the agency.

Reserves must pass the reserve academy whch was, last time I checked, 80 hours.

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 9:49 p.m.

Response to post #13: If you go to Yuma, SP, your friend JW won't have anyone to complain about. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 9:51 p.m.

Response to post #14: I think everybody assumes the cuts would be progressive -- cutting the most percentage-wise at the top of the wage scale. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 9:53 p.m.

Response to post #15: That's like the guy whose doctor tells him he has to give up half his sex life. He replies, "Which half? Thinking about it or talking about it?" Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 9:55 p.m.

Response to post #16: I was just kidding. I'm not sure whether that slight difference is even statistically significant. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 9:58 p.m.

Response to post #17: Oh yes, I know police have unpaid reserves. I didn't know about metro fire departments. I appreciate your research. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 10 p.m.

Response to post #18: Future fires are a certainty in Southern California. So are earthquakes. The latter seem more difficult to predict. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 10:03 p.m.

Response to post #19: We have a dispute here. Can someone check the military and get a definitive answer? Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 1, 2010 @ 10:06 p.m.

Response to post #20: Visduh said "the academy," as I recall. He could have meant the reserve academy. You seem to be disputing whether the reserve officer has the same qualifications. Best, Don Bauder

0

Founder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 7:47 a.m.

Reply to several above (and to catch up)! Sorry I was "away" yesterday and could not "reply" to my #5 and #6 comments! 1. Regarding "cutting comp", of course I'd suggest doing it according to some ratio of pay or benefits received, with a bottom "cap" of the City's posted "Moderate income" figures.

  1. Re: Overtime, I'd suggest that those amounts also be cut to a percentage of what they are now... The City Budget is bleeding out, and we need to make cuts until it is viable again!

  2. RE: Retirement benefits, I believe that if the folks working now take some pay cuts and also support reducing the Retirement benefits of those in the highest retirement brackets again with a "bottom cap" then the City will weather this Fiscal Storm.

  3. If San Diego's citizens have to make cuts, then it makes good sense that all the Unions and the folks on Retirement also take some cuts for the good of all.

  4. RE: CALFIRE, I also know helo pilots and they were very happy to have the fires to themselves as they made MAJOR OT bucks; any time folks benefit "too much" from something like a fire, then in the future, fires will be started.

  5. Regarding FF that are volunteers, I used to live in Maryland and their were many volunteers that did a superb job right along side "Paid" firemen.

  6. RE: Paying Volunteers; Why NOT pay "Volunteers" during major fires instead of paying overtime to "Paid" Fire Fighters; that would be fair for everyone... and BTW: having Fire Fighters work 36 hours straight is not safe or financially prudent, when trained "Volunteers" could provide most if not all those duties...Here is one great example: Remember all those FF'ers along side equipment watching over neighborhoods and putting out fence fires?

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 2, 2010 @ 8:35 a.m.

"The Los Angeles Police Reserve Corps is comprised of community members who volunteer their time to fulfill many of the roles handled by full-time sworn police officers. Reserve officers receive the same training as fulltime officers and work alongside them in every aspect of Department operations." "Level I and II Reserve Officers receive additional training. Level II Reserve Officers receive approximately 250 hours of professional classroom instruction. Level I Reserve Officers receive approximately 340 hours of professional classroom instruction. Classes are held at the Los Angeles Police Department Ahmanson Recruit Training Center. ================= Like I said, reserve officers do not receive the same training as regular cops, which is a 14-26+ week academy.

250 hours is not full academy training, nor is 340 hours. Not even close really.

I don't know what SDPD has as far as reserve training-and am too lazy to look it up-maybe JustClueless can clue us in on it. I can guarantee you it is not FULL academy training though-the cost (thousands in tuition and supplies) and time (several months-in fact LAPD, LASO and CHP may even have a 7 month academy now) to do that is not something many-if any- would do for volunteer work

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 2, 2010 @ 8:51 a.m.

3. RE: Retirement benefits, I believe that if the folks working now take some pay cuts and also support reducing the Retirement benefits of those in the highest retirement brackets again with a "bottom cap" then the City will weather this Fiscal Storm.

That would work.

But the unions would never agree to it. Ever. They would rather kill the host so the parasite can live like Kings. In fact, you can get ready for their repsonses right now;

"But we have a CONTRACT"

"But we took less money for these Cadillac pensions" (that they did not earn)

"It is not OUR fault the City is out of money" "[insert any number of talking points here]"

0

Founder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 9:06 a.m.

Reply #32 Like you, the Unions will "come our with all their guns blazing" BUT The voters are now cash strapped and when these same Union's wages/salaries/retirements benefits become public knowledge,

(and not just here on the Online Reader's Blog)

I actually think that the Unions will see a VOTER BACKLASH "effect" that they have never seen before, as voters don't just say no, but "Hell No"...

0

Don Bauder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 10:21 a.m.

Response to post #29: You're up to bat, SP. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 10:25 a.m.

Response to post #30: Small towns across the country have all-volunteer fire departments. Maybe we should study records of their efficiency. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 10:29 a.m.

Response to post #31: It's obvious we need some information to reach a consensus. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 10:32 a.m.

Response to post #32: The "contract" argument is persuasive until one gets to bankruptcy court. Then the contracts are broken. The unions should be reminded of that. Bankruptcy or the threat of it is the best tool for San Diego. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 10:36 a.m.

Response to post #33: Yes, once the word of the ridiculous pension payments gets around, the public might get aroused. The Reader has done its part by publishing the info. It's up to other people to spread the word. The mainstream media aren't likely to do it. Best, Don Bauder

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 2, 2010 @ 12:07 p.m.

now why during these tough economic times are members of the community attacking police and fire pay and pension....during robust economic times never a word is said about pay or benefits....everyone wants the best, firefighter and police as it is a difficult, demanding, and stressfull occupation...no take into account the high rate of temporary disability (from bumps and bruises that they work through to burns, cancer, mrsa, broken bones, torn ligaments etc....and wear and tear on the body that most of the jobs or occupations do not encounter...and then the ultimate giving your life for the community.... so go ahead and pay minimum wage and cut pensions and benefits.....and remeber the next time your standing in line at the fast food joint or at the carnival and disapointed with your level of service, that is the same level of service you will receive from the person you want to pay minimum wage to save and protect you, your faimly or valuables.....wake up people you have no idea what you receive from these highly skill and trained individulas...you are getting the bargain of your lives...think of that when your house is on fire, or you need the police.....

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 2, 2010 @ 2:26 p.m.

during robust economic times never a word is said about pay or benefits

Wake up-these scams have been in the cross hairs for at least 5 years now-that was "during robust economic times", and even if it wasn't, who the heck cares, times have changed. . . everyone wants the best, firefighter and police as it is a difficult, demanding, and stressfull occupation ================

It is a semi-skilled, manual labor, GED educated job, nothing more. It is not anymore demanding, difficult or stressful than any other manual labor job. . . . wake up people you have no idea what you receive from these highly skill and trained individulas... ================== Newsflash to our hero here, we know EXACTLY what we receive, and a semi skilled manual labor job is not "highly skill(sic) and trained individulas (sic)" . . you are getting the bargain of your lives ================ So says the GED cop being comped $200K per year.

We are actually getting the back stabbing of our lives......from greedy public employees that would have trouble making minimum wage in the real world.

Why do these clowns keep posting this kind of nonsense??????

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 2, 2010 @ 2:50 p.m.

semi skilled labor....who do you think runs every major incident accross the united states, fire, floods, police incidents, etc...its from ICS (INCIDENT COMMAND SYSTEM) which was developed by a semi-skilled, manual labor, GED educated firefighter... that system is used accross the united states.... i do not know to many entry level cops or firefighters earning 200K... last i checked entry positions are around 40k 75k depending on the area...please do not be a fear or hate monger...be acurate in your postings...or produce a job postiong for 200k in pay and benefits...dont be a hater.....

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 2, 2010 @ 3:57 p.m.

i do not know to many entry level cops or firefighters earning 200K...

Then you don't know any cops in CA, they are all COMPING around $200K, some much more.

You do know what comp means don't you??? Salary + Benefits= total job cost. . . . last i checked entry positions are around 40k 75k depending on the area... =================

LOL..there is nto a PD or FD in the state, or the nation, that comps an entry level cop or ff at $40K.

Here is a typical cop job comp schedule-add it up-$161K plus at least another $161K in benefits, total comp= $320K; http://www.ci.richmond.ca.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=4869 . . . or produce a job postiong for 200k in pay and benefits...dont be a hater..... =================== See above, and if you want me to smack you and your BS talking points around some more-please feel free to post up more of your bogus public union "talking points".

0

Don Bauder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 4:44 p.m.

Response to post #40: You answered your question yourself. You said that during robust times nobody questions pay that FFs and police receive. True. Very few recognized that the City was headed over the financial cliff in the good times. That's the way life is: people are giddy in the good times and sober in the bad times such as now. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 4:46 p.m.

Response to post #41: We definitely have a difference of opinion between SurfPuppy and Commonsenseisthegame. Care to duel? Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 4:48 p.m.

Response to post #42: One thing police have going for them is that they are the heroes of the TV shows and movies. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 4:52 p.m.

Response to post #43: SP, will you post your license plate number on this blog? And then will you tell us how long it takes to get a speeding or parking ticket? Best, Don Bauder

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 2, 2010 @ 7:36 p.m.

One thing police have going for them is that they are the heroes of the TV shows and movies.

Cop shows are the BEST, especially the older ones.

As a kid I loved Jack Webb and "Dragnet", and "The F.B.I." which aired on Friday nights.

And of course you had shows lots of cool cop shows like "McCloud" "Starsky and Hutch".... and don't leave out the PI shows like "Mannix" ""Rockford Files" and "Simon and Simon".

Too many good cop and PI shows to list.......

I hate it though when these cops and FF's complain about things. They are being comped better than ANYONE in America on an education/skills to compensation ratio and they still gripe.

They flat out refuse to take any pay or benefit cuts even as they are being comped so much more than everyone else.

They have essentially bullet proof job security-with civil service and union job protections while everyone in the real world is an "at will" employee with virtually NO job protections-yet they still complain.

I said before the can has been kicked down the road until we ran out of road to kick it-there is no more road to kick the can down......either we CAP all employee salary levels for at leats 5-10 years, or we cut the benefits, or a combo of both. But when the public safety employees are making 4-5 times more than the average taxpayer in their city, there is not going to be many people voting for tax increases to cover their ultra rich employment deals.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 2, 2010 @ 7:38 p.m.

SP, will you post your license plate number on this blog? And then will you tell us how long it takes to get a speeding or parking ticket?

LOL...there was someone named "sunami" slamming the cop and ff pensions on the UT website today and one of the local cops "Retired SDPD" started to claim it was that infamous poster "JohnnyVegas" under a new name..........!!!

But I know JV and it wasn't him. JV was banned from the UT's site at least 5 times.........

0

Founder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 7:53 p.m.

Reply #48 & #49 What we really need is for all the highest paid and all the highest pensioned retired folks to tell US what we should ask them to do, that they think is fair, given San Diego's financial situation; besides more of the same old "we want it all because we deserve it" talk...

If they actually come to the table with some options, then that's great, if they do nothing then we know have big communication problems with ALL our financial "Hero's"...

The Sixties slogan, "you're either part of the solution or you're part of the problem", accurately describes what is happening in SD and the US today!

Remember in today's job market/reality that hundreds of folks will apply for every City job and many of them will be either qualified or "over" qualified for that position...

0

Don Bauder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 8:45 p.m.

Response to post #48: When you say public safety employees make 4 to 5 times what the average taxpayer makes, you must mean salary plus pension. I would like to see your numbers. The average salary in the county is around $47,000, as I recall. That does not include potential retirement income. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 8:47 p.m.

Response to post #49: Gee. SurfPuppy knows JohnnyVegas. That will surprise a lot of people. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 2, 2010 @ 8:51 p.m.

Response to post #50: This is what I have been saying for years. Forget the argument that the safety personnel have sacrosanct contracts.They can be broken in BK court, although the case would probably go to SCOTUS. Forget the maudlin arguments about the good things they do. Face facts: the City is broke. It can't continue to feed the pension kitty in this economy, and this economy is not getting significantly better. Best, Don Bauder

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 2, 2010 @ 10:02 p.m.

to duel with the puppy on a fourm like this is difficult....the puppy is hell bent of 1/2 truths and lack of information...entry level to fully paid firefighters and police officers salaries are not near 100k...not even close on a state avg...( case in point sdfd and sdpd ) ...as you move up the ladder pay increases. loke in any profession ....last i have seen, when the cops and fireman are running in the rest are running out....on the easy days you can find minimum wage employees to show up...well on the other days, you have never received such a bargain....i throw a out to challenge to you puppy... suit up.....find a volunteer fd or community work with the police...get out of the stands and man-up...it's easy taking shots from the bleacher....so crawl back into your safe, cozy and comfy world and just say thank you to all the public servants that let it all hang out to protect you and your family 24/7....just a thank you would be in order.....

if you think its such a great deal....they offer a test every year, or did you wash out some time ago....?

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 7:09 a.m.

Response to post #54: Again, this is an emotional argument that doesn't hit the heart of the matter. The point is not whether FFs and police have an unbreakable contract, or whether they are heroes protecting the public. The point is that the City cannot afford to pay them what was promised in halcyon (misguidedly so) days. The question is whether FFs and police will sit down and negotiate reasonable pension (and perhaps salary) reductions. Best, Don Bauder

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 3, 2010 @ 8:20 a.m.

Last i checked there was no leverage applied when these contracts were negotiated and signed ( police and fire can not strike or walk out )....pensions in charter city's were approved by voters.... it's time to lay blame where it belongs... waste and mismanagement from all state federal, state and local agencies, free handouts, not the contracts of firefighters and police officers

police and fire have taken pay cuts and increased their share of employee contributions across the state in the recent budget crisisis, so again please check your facts before you spoon feed propaganda to the many who have rellied on your misinformation and obscured 1/2 truths...fair pay and benefits for a stressfull and dangerous days work.....if you can do it, quit complaining and suit up!!!! or were you washed out or do not have the wherewithal to do a dangerous / challengings and demanding job...

here's a challenge to Don Bauder and surf puppy be accurate and responsible when posting salaries and benefits, place a copy of a m.o.u. in your blog for which agency you are speaking of...no more misleading statements... be factual acurate and authentic from that you will gain respect of all readers...it"s time to stop the hype be responsible....

...a fair wage for the duties and responsibilities that are required, nothing more...

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 3, 2010 @ 8:38 a.m.

Last i checked there was no leverage applied when these contracts were negotiated and signed ( police and fire can not strike or walk out )....pensions in charter city's were approved by voters.... it's time to lay blame where it belongs... waste and mismanagement from all federal, state and local agencies, free handouts, not the contracts of firefighters and police officers

police and fire have taken pay cuts and increased their share of employee contributions across the state in the recent budget crisisis, so again please check your facts before you spoon feed propaganda to the many who have rellied on your misinformation and obscured 1/2 truths...fair pay and benefits for a stressfull and dangerous days work.....if you can do it, quit complaining and suit up!!!! or were you washed out or do not have the wherewithal to do a dangerous / challengings and demanding job...

here's a challenge to Don Bauder and surf puppy be accurate and responsible when posting salaries and benefits, place a copy of a m.o.u. in your blog for which agency you are speaking of...no more misleading statements... be factual acurate and authentic from that you will gain respect of all readers...it"s time to stop the hype be responsible....

...a fair wage for the duties and responsibilities that are required, nothing more...

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 3, 2010 @ 8:51 a.m.

Last i checked there was no leverage applied when these contracts were negotiated and signed ( police and fire can not strike or walk out )...

LOL...really....so all those campaign bribes...errrr..."donations" were not leverage????? HEy Pinnochio, your nose grew 50 feet with that whopper!!! . . .pensions in charter city's were approved by voters.... it's time to lay blame where it belongs... ======================= Pensions were NOT approved by voters-they were approved by elected officials....another lie shot down . . . police and fire have taken pay cuts and increased their share of employee contributions across the state in the recent budget crisisis, so again please check your facts before you spoon feed propaganda to the many who have rellied on your misinformation and obscured 1/2 truths...fair pay and benefits for a stressfull and dangerous days work.....if =============== Reallyyyyy....sorry but they have not taken cuts, SDPD just RECEIVED raises of over 11% in their last contract. Stop the lies, your nose cannot afford to get much bigger. The few that have given back gave back amounts so small as to be nominal. . . . fair pay and benefits for a stressfull and dangerous days work.....if you can do it, quit complaining and suit up!!!! or were you washed out or do not have the wherewithal to do a dangerous / challengings and demanding job... ================ Yes "fair pay" sounds good, about $60K plus benefits for a SEMI SKILLED MANUAL LABOR job is fair, $200K is a scam. You're not a brain surgeon or Johnny Cochrane-so stop acting like you deserve to be paid like them.

The job is a GED job, no more demanding than any other semie skilled manual labor GED level job, as for doing it-have fun getting hired;

The high paying gov jobs, like FF jobs, and to a lesser extent the PD jobs, are all "gifted" out to;

1- Family (Hi LAPD Chief Charlie Beck and 5 family members!! Hello El Cajon Police Chief Pat Sprecco and son Nick Sprecco!!!),

2- Friends,

3- Civil rights lawsuit consent decree hires for engaging in 1 & 2 above. (Hi LASD, and your female hiring requirement under the Bouman v. Baca Consent Decree!!!).

4- Military workfare hires- who are hired in extraordinary (and out of proportion) numbers.

And if youre not in the one of the connecte dgroups your chances are about 10,000 to 1.

I love shooting down these lies.

0

Founder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:43 a.m.

Reply to "commonsenseisthegame"

Perhaps the "real challenge" would be for the FF or the PD to allow US to "suit up" which would include all the things that mid to senior level officers do during their typical day; man the radio, attend meetings, inspect buildings, meet with the public, carry a firearm (with a permit), not give out any personal information to anyone and drive a City vehicle!

Lots of folks would be happy to volunteer their own time to help make our "paid" Officers more efficient while they are on the clock; and when you think about it, why not even "pay" these same "volunteer" folks if doing so will SAVE THE CITY MONEY?

Here is some examples (forgive me if I've written any of these before:

  1. Babysit vehicles waiting to be towed, instead of requiring the Officer too.

  2. Monitor neighborhoods during fires, so Officers can man the fire lines.

  3. Provide surveillance, take pictures and all other non threatening duties.

  4. Provide backup to other Officers, in situations where 2 or often 3 or more Officers all gather at an arrest site and stand around instead of returning to their own Patrol work.

  5. DUI traffic stop & DUI check points, many of which are done with Federal Grant Money - Less Officers + some "Lower cost volunteers" would equal more check points per grant dollar! Just having some one paid to complete all the required paperwork would allow the Officers to "DO" more of what they are trained to do and less of their time spent doing paperwork (Think Doctor giving orders to Nurses to complete, while Doctors see other Patients...

The bottom line is to:

  1. Get our Officers (PD & FF) as efficient as possible and also make use of "Non sworn" Officers to keep cost down in the future.

  2. Immediately meet with both their Unions (+ other City Unions) and figure out how to reduce the salary of the highest paid in order for the City to NOT GO Bankrupt or things will get worse WHEN the City goes Bankrupt and some Judge makes these same decisions for all the Unions by himself!

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 3, 2010 @ 10:12 a.m.

some local agencies already have efforts like this in place, more community involvment is needed... when the 911 system was placed into service call loads have increased exponentialy and police and fire units are sent across the city handling major emergency to non-emergency incidents...high call loads create increased onscene times, less time for training, and maintence of equipment ...ask any firefighter police officer to share stories of 911 abuse they have wittnessed....

commuinty involement and awarness will payoff tenfold during natural disasters and emergencies that stretch the limits of the public servants....most emergency services are currently working with less personel and required to do more....thank you for the insight and progressive thinking....the community and public service agencies need more of individulas like yourself...

more should follow your lead and create real solutions not just complaining...

0

Visduh Sept. 3, 2010 @ 11:16 a.m.

While all the foregoing seems to have been about police and firefighter pay, all levels and types of public employees have been protesting loudly. I'm well aware that teacher pay scales in most districts haven't increased in about five years and that teachers have accepted give backs. Oh, they scream bloody murder when they do that, but it has been widespread, and will continue. They probably still fail to understand that the money just isn't there to keep the gravy train going, but they cannot get their members to go on strike, and the districts are looking at fewer dollars each year than the year before. Police and firefighters are accustomed to being kept sacrosanct, and are accustomed to near worshipful treatment. They will always get that sort of respect and adulation, but that doesn't translate into the princely pay they've been getting recently, nor the pensions they've been promised.

It will be painful, but I predict that these public employee salaries and retirement benefits will be scaled back in most jurisdictions, and that it will happen soon. It isn't about politics and equity and more--the money just isn't there to keep it all going, and won't be there again for a long, long time, if ever.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 3, 2010 @ 11:26 a.m.

They probably still fail to understand that the money just isn't there to keep the gravy train going....and the districts are looking at fewer dollars each year than the year before.

And this is what public employees, and our State legislature fail to address.

State employment has gone UP since the depression began, the state has continued to hire and continued to give raises, yet we had a $60 BILLION defict last year, we have a $20 BILLION deficit this year and we have a projected $30 BILLION deficit next year. Yet the legistalture has failed to address MEANINGFUL pension reform or salary reform. They keep hoping and praying tax revenue will INCREASE when taxes continue to decrease. That is ridiculous.

The fact is the so called "pension reform" Arnold got from a handful of unions was not reform at all, because he gave out RAISES that not only offset any pension reform, but actually drove up the costs of the pensions over the longeterm b/c the raises are going to increase pension costs for the 30 year life of the pensions.

BTW-please read what I wrote very carefully, state employees have been given RAISES, they are not capping wages at all, and certainly not giving back any wages.

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 3, 2010 @ 12:25 p.m.

puppy... just because you wrote it, does not make it true... where are your facts....not just an isolated incident ...documentation of pay raises ..... again a lot of hot air in a bag....be percise, accountable, and factual with proof and documentation to support your comments...otherwise you appear to be a big blow hard with an axe to grind with no substance....2nd challenge thrown you way!!!

0

Founder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 1:25 p.m.

Reply #63 I suggest that instead of name calling you tell US how the City is supposed to keep pay and or retirement pensions at ANYWHERE near the current or better yet how the City is supposed to NOT GO INTO BANKRUPTCY?

Oh, and don't forget (to quote you):

"be percise, accountable, and factual with proof and documentation to support your comments...otherwise you appear to be a big blow hard with an axe to grind with no substance....2nd challenge thrown you way!!!"

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 3, 2010 @ 2:33 p.m.

you guys are good blame shifiting....i am not an expert nor do i account to be... all i ask is that this group of critical thinkers "be percise, accountable, and factual with proof and documentation to support your comments... my statements have not changed or have i offered misleading statement or suggestions.. i have just asked this groups of thinkers not to spoon feed propoganda or try to solve problems you are not qualified to except in the land of make believe....

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 3, 2010 @ 2:34 p.m.

puppy... just because you wrote it, does not make it true... where are your facts....

LOL...were you not the one who said "last i checked entry positions are around 40k 75k depending on the area" with NO FACTS, and then I posted a link to a current PD with FACTS proving up a $161K base salary with a $320K in full compensation !!!!!

Please. Your talking points have been destroyed by me, and you have been smacked around so hard it appears I have given you brain damage.

My job here is done!

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 3, 2010 @ 3 p.m.

check entry level pay for pd and fd in san diego area...post what you find....most likely not then you will be found out to be, what you are,,,,NOTHING but a whinnnnnner

0

Founder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 4:08 p.m.

We need facts not name calling; (which is the lowest for of argumentation)!

How is the City of SD going to afford to NOT go bankrupt, that is the real question?

Maybe some of the Unions will give US some answers and stop providing SPIN!

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:04 p.m.

Response to post #56: What's a fair wage when the City cannot afford to pay the wages and pensions it has now. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:07 p.m.

Response to post #57: Nepotism is ubiquitous, even in government jobs. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:10 p.m.

Response to post #58: These are good arguments for retirement at age 65 instead of age 50 or 55. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:13 p.m.

Response to post #60: Posts #58 and #59 had some practical suggestions. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:16 p.m.

Response to post #61: I believe teachers deserve a raise. But I agree that other employees, particularly safety ones, have to take a good-sized haircut in pensions and possibly pay, too. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:18 p.m.

Response to post #62: So it isn't just Jerry Sanders who passes out raises then claims he has made cuts. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:20 p.m.

Response to post #63: I like that: "be percise." Just kidding. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:23 p.m.

Response to post #64: Yes, tell us how the City will continue to pay these wages and pensions and stay solvent. After telling us, tell the mayor. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:25 p.m.

Response to post #65: You are new to the blog -- and we welcome you -- and you missed many discussions in which precise information was cited. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:27 p.m.

Response to post #66: Oh, don't quit, SP. We need your input. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:28 p.m.

Response to post #67: Remember, SP has been talking about total compensation: salary plus pension and other benefits. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 3, 2010 @ 9:30 p.m.

Response to post #68: I wouldn't expect the City employees' unions to give out reliable information. Theirs will have spin. Best, Don Bauder

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 3, 2010 @ 10:24 p.m.

http://www.ci.encinitas.ca.us/NR/rdonlyres/D062BAAE-D9D9-4C4C-BCBF-F9CB961AD64E/0/LateralFF.pdf;

job posting for local ff paramedic pay scale.....57,780 - 71,508 a far cry from the 320k you posted even with benefits possibly 100k.... remove the paramedic skill and its in the 40k to 60k ballpark...

puppy...not much of a bark i hear just a whimper....other than your misleading facts and arrogance what else do you have...

check the website listed above for authenticty and accuracy of my posting...

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 3, 2010 @ 10:37 p.m.

Job Title: Firefighter/Paramedic - Lateral Entry
Closing Date/Time: Continuous
Salary: $17.19 - $25.41 Hourly $1,925.54 - $2,845.38 Biweekly $4,172.00 - $6,165.00 Monthly $50,064.00 - $73,980.00 Annually

Job Type: Full-Time Location: Vista, California Department: Fire

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 3, 2010 @ 10:48 p.m.

VOLUNTEER POSITION WITH THE CITY FIRE DEPARTMENT

(Nonsalaried)

Copies of the following applicable required documents must be attached online to your online application before submission of your online application (failure to attach applicable required listed documents will result in disqualification):

1) Valid EMT - 1 (basic) Certificate 2) Firefighter 1 Certificate 3) Haz-mat FRO Certificate 4) Current C-Pat Certificate

Job Description

Class specifications are intended to present a descriptive list of the range of duties performed by employees in the class. Specifications are not intended to reflect all duties performed within the job.

SUMMARY DESCRIPTION Under the direction of the Fire Captain, the Firefighter Reserve responds to fire alarms and other emergency calls to protect life and property; provides basic life support emergency medical service; and conducts fire prevention inspection and public education programs; and may provide assistance to advanced life support providers.

IDENTIFYING CHARACTERISTICS The Firefighter Reserve is to perform a broad range of tasks relevant to the assumed duties. This position is fully trained in the scope of duties associated with this class and performs the full range of assigned duties with increasing independence.

Examples of Duties:
The following duties are typical for this classification. Incumbents may not perform all of the listed duties and/or may be required to perform additional or different duties from those set forth below to address business needs and changing business practices.

  1. Responds to all fire alarms with designated equipment while on duty and individually when off duty.
  2. Responds to emergency medical care incidents, provides basic life support emergency medical service; operates emergency vehicle and assists paramedics, as necessary.
  3. Inspects commercial properties for fire prevention and pre-fire planning as part of engine company inspection program.
  4. Assists with maintenance of fire and emergency medical apparatus and equipment in accordance with daily and other periodic maintenance schedules.
  5. Performs public education functions to civic organizations, schools, and other groups.
  6. Performs station and hydrant maintenance.
  7. Participates in fire drills and on-going training exercises and classes.
  8. Prepares written reports, as required.
  9. Responds to emergency medical care incidents to provide basic life support service; responds with ambulance to medical emergencies.
  10. May be required to provide legal testimony.
  11. Performs related duties as required.
0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 3, 2010 @ 10:49 p.m.

Typical Qualifications:
The following generally describes the knowledge and ability required to enter the job and/or be learned within a short period of time in order to successfully perform the assigned duties.

Knowledge of: Principles, practices and techniques of modern municipal fire suppression and prevention activities. Principles and practices related to providing emergency medical assistance. CPR and advanced first aid. Fire hydraulics and basic math. Radio procedures. Computer operations.

Ability to: Use a resuscitator and administer first aid and CPR. Use life support equipment; administer CPR and other life saving procedures. Maintain confidential information. Think and act quickly and calmly in emergencies. Use mechanic hand tools, carpenter’s tools, breathing apparatus, axes, shovels, chain saws and extrication equipment including Jaws of Life. Demonstrate physical endurance, agility and strength required for the job. Prepare clear and concise reports. Deal politely and effectively with the public. When assigned as a Paramedic, use advanced life support equipment. Communicate clearly and concisely, both orally and in writing. Establish and maintain effective working relationships with those contacted in the course of work.

Education and Experience Guidelines - Any combination of education and experience that would likely provide the required knowledge and abilities is qualifying. A typical way to obtain the knowledge and abilities would be:

Education/Training: Equivalent to completion of the twelfth grade.

LTCC Fire Academy Graduates who pass all required exams, will receive 5 additional points on their final and overall total exam score. These additional points will not affect other applicants status; their scores, their placement on an eligible hiring list, or their referal status to the Fire Department to consider for hire.

Experience: One year of volunteer fire fighting experience is desirable.

License or Certificate: Possession of a valid California or Nevada driver’s license; ability to obtain a Class B Firefighter driver’s license. Possession of a current valid C-Pat certificate. Possession of a Firefighter 1 certificate is highly desired (equivalent to California FF 1)

Possession of an Emergency Medical Technician-1 certificate desired. Possession of a HAZ-MAT FRO certificate desired.

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 3, 2010 @ 10:50 p.m.

Examination for qualifications for those invited to participate are anticipated as follows:

Supplemental Information:
The conditions herein are representative of those that must be met by an employee to successfully perform the essential functions of this job. Reasonable accommodations may be made to enable individuals with disabilities to perform the essential job functions.

Environment: Reactive emergency, natural or man-made disaster, and routine fire prevention environments with travel from site to site; the employee regularly works near moving mechanical parts and in areas of limited and restricted entry and exit; regularly exposed to outside weather conditions and wet and/or humid conditions; occasionally works in high, precarious places; exposed to fumes or airborne particles, toxic or caustic chemicals, extreme cold, extreme heat, fire, infectious biohazards, and vibration; risk of electrical shock, radiation, drowning, and asphyxiation; work and/or walk on various types of surfaces including slippery or uneven surfaces; the noise level in the work environment is usually moderate; however, the noise level is occasionally very loud when responding to emergency calls and when working at a fire or other emergency incident. Incumbents are required to work extended hours including evenings, weekends, and holidays. This position is a high risk position with exposure to potentially dangerous situations requiring a range of safety or other precautions such as working at great heights, under extreme conditions and working around high voltage.

Physical: Primary functions require sufficient physical ability to work in a emergency response setting; considerable and rapid physical exertion or demands on the body such as frequent climbing of tall ladders, continuous lifting of heavy objects, crouching or crawling in restricted areas; exertion requires highly intense muscular action leading to substantial muscular exhaustion; walk, stand, sit, or run for prolonged periods of time; occasionally stoop, bend, kneel, crouch, reach, and twist; occasionally climb and balance; regularly push, pull, lift, and/or carry light to moderate weights; frequently lift and/or move moderate to heavy weights; occasionally lift and/or move heavy weights; operate fire suppression and medical response equipment, apparatus, and tools; requires a sense of touch, finger dexterity, and gripping with hands and fingers; ability to speak and hear to exchange information; ability to operate a vehicle to travel to various locations. Vision: See in the normal visual range with or without correction; specific vision abilities required by this job include close vision, distance vision, color vision, peripheral vision, depth perception, and ability to adjust focus. Hearing: Hear in the normal audio range with or without correction.

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 3, 2010 @ 10:51 p.m.

FLSA Designation: Nonsalaried Volunteer

yea just your basic GED superstar....all this with out pay so one day quite possibly land one of those plumb jobs that pay about 40k - 75k

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 3, 2010 @ 10:51 p.m.

http://www.ci.encinitas.ca.us/NR/rdonlyres/D062BAAE-D9D9-4C4C-BCBF-F9CB961AD64E/0/LateralFF.pdf;

job posting for local ff paramedic pay scale.....57,780 - 71,508

Now add in the millions they get from their fringe benefits.

You can't pull the "salary" game here, when these GED jobs are porking out 6 figures in benefits alone.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 3, 2010 @ 10:53 p.m.

$73,980.00 Annually

Job Type: Full-Time Location: Vista, California Department: Fire =================

Now add in the $100K in benefits and the $50K in OT.

Another public employee whopper shot down.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 3, 2010 @ 10:57 p.m.

Education and Experience Guidelines - Any combination of education and experience that would likely provide the required knowledge and abilities is qualifying. A typical way to obtain the knowledge and abilities would be:

Education/Training: Equivalent to completion of the twelfth grade. =================

LOL...... your very OWN POST shows the eduation requries-12th grade.....oh my- that is going to eliminate what- 1% of the applicants!!!!!

Do you see anything that REQUIRES ANY college-NO!

Once again, we get the basic firewhiner twisting the facts, and trying to justify their "entitlement" mentality, which cannot be justified.

These are semi skilled, manual labor jobs, nothing more-you need to deal with that!

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 6:54 a.m.

Response to posts #82 & 83: That appears lower than SP is citing but is still quite good for San Diego County. At the Union-Tribune, veteran reporters/editors making $60,000-$75,000 are being laid off and replaced with tyros who are willing to try living on $35,000. Many of those getting laid off have Master's. Probably some of the rookies do, too. Best, Don Bauder

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 4, 2010 @ 7:26 a.m.

i can not comment on what other industries are doing, lay offs and comp packages etc...ff and pd get paid a fair negotiated comp package for what they do,,,,

entry level requirements are posted for minimum requirements, you would be hard pressed to find a ff or pd with ged or hs diploma, does not happen...most have formal education aa, ba, paramedic cert, ussar, haz mat, wild land, military training...much more than a semi skilled labor

as far as benefit package...generally speaking benefits as rountinely 1/2 the pay comp package give or take a little... and overtime in days like today is non existent...and remember not all choose to work ot, it not a birth right and not guarenteed and most importantly does NOT factor into any retirement in california....again puppy is quite the hype junkie feeds on being right and unable to effectively comunicate in a fourm like this....

i can not attempt to solve the budget crissiis, this was caused by groups much larger than police , fire, teachers etc, so please quit blaming the ones that are charged with protecting and educating your communities...

thank you

0

David Dodd Sept. 4, 2010 @ 7:43 a.m.

"i can not attempt to solve the budget crissiis, this was caused by groups much larger than police , fire, teachers etc, so please quit blaming the ones that are charged with protecting and educating your communities..."

It was caused by the politicians that the groups you defend happen to support. Guilty by association.

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 7:57 a.m.

Response to post #84: That's what SD needs: non-salaried personnel. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 8:01 a.m.

Response to posts #85-87: So what's the point? That FFs deserve retirement pay that the City cannot afford to pay? You and your confreres have to confront that fact: there is no money. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 8:04 a.m.

Response to posts #88-90: SP has a point. All along he has been talking about 12th grade education as a requirement. Best, Don Bauder

0

Founder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 8:36 a.m.

Reply #96 I find it interesting that someone in this case commonsenseisthegame just joined the Reader to provide "SPIN" in a big way, to what will become THE major issue facing voters and the City, namely, how can we avoid going Bankrupt!

The length of the comments and the Super Pro "we all need lots more of the same" statements makes me think of someone that is being paid to promote for the Unions position, rather than a tax payer that for some reason loves the way the Big Unions are protecting their share of the City Budget...

I'd like to see the Unions step up and join the conversation and give US their plan, so we can then discuss it without all the name calling...

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 4, 2010 @ 10:17 a.m.

entry level requirements are posted for minimum requirements, you would be hard pressed to find a ff or pd with ged or hs diploma.

LOL....and the hits just keep on coming.

The required educational requriement for cop and ff is a GED or HS diploma, nothing more. That is all you need now, and all you have needed for decades. Same with promoting. 80% of all cops hired in metro PD's have only a GED or HS diploma. They are all promoted without regard to formal education. The Orange County Sheriff, the TOP LE position in the county, was a 9th grade HS drop out with just a GED- her name is Joanne Galinsky, Google her. So the notion, or should I say wild unsuppoted and bogus claim, that the cops and FF's are hired/promoted with more education than a GED or HS doploma is flat out false.

Once again, these are semi skilled manual labor jobs, not professions. . . as far as benefit package...generally speaking benefits as rountinely 1/2 the pay comp package give or take a little =============

LOL...look, your baloney claims may work at a SEIU or cop/ff beach party or BBQ, but not here. We are far more informed than the average voter. FF's and cops ROUTINELY try to justify their massive amounts of highly paid OT with the claim that it is CHEAPER to pay OT than hire on a new employee because new employee benefits are more than the OT costs. The fact is benefits are far more than OT, and that is accordng to the ff and cop unions themselves, so the BS claim that benefits only account for 50% of the salary is a joke. Multi million dollar pensions at age 50 that last 30-40 years cost millions to fund, far more than 30 or 40% of salary. . . . i can not attempt to solve the budget crissiis, this was caused by groups much larger than police , fire, teachers etc, so please quit blaming the ones that are charged with protecting and educating your communities ====== Actually it was 100% caused by the public employees, they are the ones who designed, requested, paid bribes to politicians for and implemented these scams. What, do you think the taxpayers came up with this ponzi scheme that is one of the biggest rip offs in this countries history-please!

If you want me to smack down anymore of your whoppers just say so-I am here to help !!!

0

Russ Lewis Sept. 4, 2010 @ 10:31 a.m.

Can someone design a cape with the letters "SP" emblazoned on the front?

0

Founder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 10:42 a.m.

Reply #99 Too bad the Online Reader does not allow Badges because then SP could receive the "Cape" he so richly deserves!

Hail SP!

0

Founder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 11:38 a.m.

BTW: Here is an amazing video:

Of the 88 year old Mayor of a Major Canadian City,

that has won re-election 11 times in a row,

has an approval rating above 95%

and manages a budget that includes zero debt:

http://www.wimp.com/bestmayor/

There is hope for San Diego, yet, at least, after we go Bankrupt!

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 11:49 a.m.

Response to post #97: Those representing the City of San Diego workers unions are invited to make posts. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 11:54 a.m.

Response to post #98: SP, you are contradicting your own statement. You say that unions are 100% to blame, partly because they bribed the pols. Then the pols are also to blame, because they were influenced by those bribes. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 11:56 a.m.

Response to post #99: Nan can be Lois Lane. Best, Don Bauder

0

Founder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 11:57 a.m.

Reply to #104 Don, you can be Perry White!

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 11:58 a.m.

Response to post #100: He will call it the Cape of Good Hope. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 12:02 p.m.

Response to post #101: By the time San Diego gets a budget with no debt, Sanders will be 188 years old. Best, Don Bauder

0

commonsenseisthegame Sept. 4, 2010 @ 12:18 p.m.

again i cahllenge those complaing about the qualifications and level of experience and education level of ff and pd officers hired, be part of the hiring process, most cities have community members participate in the interview process of entery level police and ff's ... then and only then will your level of expertise measurre the size of your mouth....

i do not know where you received you accounting degree or city manager license, but again your way off base with your calculations....

i find myself challenged with those with closed minds that operate in a very small circle unwilling to look outside they hype and enjoy be victims and now rebelling...good luck gentelmen with advirsaries and leaders like you not much change will happen... please do not be a haters...just say thank you and be on your way...

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 4, 2010 @ 12:20 p.m.

Can someone design a cape with the letters "SP" emblazoned on the front

Good idea-but it has already been done; http://www.insidesocal.com/prepsports/underdog.jpg BTW, why are you not apologizing for these GED employees like you usually do?

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 4, 2010 @ 12:32 p.m.

most cities have community members participate in the interview process of entery level police and ff's

Oh man oh man, why do YOU LIE SO MUCH?????

Please, "community members" do NOT, in any way shape or manner "participate in the interview process of entery level police and ff's". They never have and they never will.

No gov employment allows "community members" to do INTERVIEWING, in fact it may even be illegal. Police and Fire positions, as many gov jobs, are interviewed in panels, usually of 3, and the panel members are ALL gov employees-usually 2 or all 3 from the hiring agency (PD, FD, whatever) , maybe 1 person from human resources. The interviews are ALL SUBJECTIVE, not objective, so they can bring in whomever they want. This is how they hire on their family and friends, and also comply with consent decrees from being sued for past nepotism hiring.

If gov employment were based on OBJECTIVE civil service exams like they were in the past (50 years ago) the entire make up of gov employement would be 180 degrees different from what it currently is.

The last cop who was hired or promoted in this state on an objective CIVIL SERVICE exam based 100% on MERIT was LAPD Chief Darryl Gates, and that was over 3 decades ago. Gov jobs no longer are given out based on objective civil service testing.

Keep posting those whoppers and I will keep knocking htem down. Even our resident gov scammer JustClueless will admit this fact.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 4, 2010 @ 12:38 p.m.

SP, you are contradicting your own statement. You say that unions are 100% to blame, partly because they bribed the pols. Then the pols are also to blame, because they were influenced by those bribes.

I think public unions should be busted up using the Sherman Antitrust Act, just like Standard Oil was in 1906.

Public unions have no competition and are therefore a monopoly under the Sherman Act, and could be busted apart.

Just as Standard Oil was ripping off oil consumers due to their 90% market share/monopoly, so are public employees by way of their monopolies and lack of competition in a free and open market.

I just thought of this recently-I have never seen anyone take this sort of antitrust approach to public employment before-so I think I am on the cutting edge in suggesting it...........

0

Founder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 1:10 p.m.

Reply #108 & 112

How about some facts instead of name calling?

What do you have to add to this conversation about the City fiscal shortfall and what should be done about it except avoid talking about it?

The City burns through $6OO,OOO* every day!

It must make major changes... what do you suggest beside name calling?

*For more: http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/np-star/2010/aug/06/what-does-it-cost-to-run-sd-per-day/#c69057

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 3:01 p.m.

Response to post #108: I think if SP were a San Diego leader, there would be change. There would have to be seeds of change to get him elected. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 3:05 p.m.

Response to post #109: That's a U. It's not an SP emblazoned on the chest. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 3:07 p.m.

Response to post #110: It should be fairly easy to find out who's right and who's wrong on this. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 3:09 p.m.

Response to post #111: People have been complaining about labor union monopolies for years. I don't know if anyone has tried anti-trust with a public union. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 3:19 p.m.

Response to post #111: You called SP a semiliterate shyster on that blog. Of course, he had some nasty things to say about you, too. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 3:22 p.m.

Response to post #113: The pension deficit, the ARC, the neglect of basic services and infrastructure all speak for themselves. Best, Don Bauder

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 4, 2010 @ 3:58 p.m.

"Oh man oh man, why do YOU LIE SO MUCH?????"

Look who's talking. Perhaps you remember this: http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs...>;

Actually I was right about everything I wrote in that thread-at least as far as I read-at 250 posts I didn't read all of it....but these so called civil service are hired from 4 basic areas, and every major PD/FD in this state has been sued at some point within the last 40 years over nepotism hiring practices.......

0

David Dodd Sept. 4, 2010 @ 4:09 p.m.

Oh, snap. Here we go, another of Bauder's threads going over 1,000 comments...

0

Founder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 5:26 p.m.

Reply #119 I think your examples are all great but this time around, the City's Fiscal Problems will make a much bigger impression than anything has to date on San Diego's voters, because now most of the Voters themselves are hurting for money and all these high paid City jobs will be "ripe" for the benefit axe!

Plus, if the Big Unions don't start making helpful suggestions BEFORE voting time, then the voters will "Just say No" to them and then the real blood letting will begin as one Union positions itself against another Union, to see who is the bigger Hero and deserves a bigger slice of the now nonexistent benefit pie!

Bankruptcy is the only solution I can see that will begin to solve our City's financial problems and every day that our Leaders continue to waffle, they become a larger part of the problem.

In fact, under the Brown Act, they should all recuse themselves as they are all now dealing with financial issues that will have a direct impact on their personal incomes and also their future retirement benefits! Their wisest decision should be to declare bankruptcy and then allow a judge or panel of Judges decide the fate of the City, because then our Leaders can remain "guiltless" of favoritism by their Big Union Supporters, who will be very angry...

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 4, 2010 @ 8:33 p.m.

Bankruptcy is the only solution I can see that will begin to solve our City's financial problems and every day that our Leaders continue to waffle, they become a larger part of the problem.

San Diego, and many other cities, are essentially bankrupt right now. The cannot maintain core services on current income. They have been hoping and praying for the economy to turn, but it hasn't, and even if it did the pension expenses are growing exponentially and will far outpace even a strong recovery-and we will have at best a slow recovery-at worst a double dip recession.

KFC Sanders has turned out to be a big fat bag of hot air- and I think, or at least hope, everyone with half a brain now realizes this fact. Sanders ran on NOT raising taxes and getting spending under control-he has now flip flopped on both issues and is in fact trying to do exactly what he promised he would not do-raise taxes.

Tax increases in the middle of a depression, on people who are losing everything they own, taxes that will NOT lead to better gov or gov services, but will go right into the pockets and pensions of city employees who are 100 tiems better off than the private sector paying their expenses.

If the pension tax passes you will not see or hear from SurfPuppy ever again-I will be moving to Yuma.

Sanders needs to go-yesterday!

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 8:40 p.m.

Response to post #120: Russl should say exactly where SP was prevaricating on that post. It was, indeed, a long one. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 8:42 p.m.

Response to post #121: I think 1,300 and change is the record. Best, Don

0

Don Bauder Sept. 4, 2010 @ 8:45 p.m.

Response to post #122: Unless the economy turns around (and I don't expect that) or the stock market soars (that's possible, but it's also possible it will go south), I think bankruptcy is the cleanest way out of the jam. Best, Don Bauder

0

Russ Lewis Sept. 5, 2010 @ 2:18 a.m.

(#124) "Russl should say exactly where SP was prevaricating on that post." I was going to let this rest, Don, but since you ask...

98 -- His lie about my occupation.

98 -- His lie about my educational level. (Gee, and I thought he had more regard for SDSU than that. I doubt they'd be pleased to hear that.)

122, 135, 146 -- His lie that he never flagged my comments for removal.

129, 144 -- His lie that my comments were removed. None were, ever.

135, 138, 144, 146 -- His lie that I violated the Reader's terms of service.

209 -- His lie that he wasn't lying.

210 -- His lie that I claimed my posts had been removed. I never did and in fact tried to make him understand this. No luck.

How's that for a start, Don?

But don't take my word for it. One of the website's own admins called bulls**t on him -- twice (#147 and #168). But I realize that when you do this for a living, you don't just snap out of it when you go home.

And the funny thing is, my objection to him is not over his position; I'm sure you and he are basically right about the pension mess. My objection is that he's a liar and an insulting one too.

As I said, Don, since you ask. I'm done.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:52 a.m.

98 -- His lie about my occupation.

98 -- His lie about my educational level. (Gee, and I thought he had more regard for SDSU than that. I doubt they'd be pleased to hear that.)

========== No, I never lied about your "occupation" or your educational level, I SARCASTICALLY said you were a GED gov employee or something along those lines. I have no idea what you do or your educational level-nor anyone else who is psoting on here, but you're too stupid top understand sarcasm, in that sense you do have a very low intelligence level. Here, let me help you Einstein Jr;

sar·casm   /ˈsɑrkæzəm/ Show Spelled[sahr-kaz-uhm] Show IPA –noun 1. harsh or bitter derision or irony. 2. a sharply ironical taunt; sneering or cutting remark: a review full of sarcasms.

What you did was flipped out over me calling you a GED gov employee and started claiming you were not one-of which I didn't care nor did anyone else. . . .

122, 135, 146 -- His lie that he never flagged my comments for removal.

129, 144 -- His lie that my comments were removed. None were, ever.

=============== I never "flagged" any of your comments for removal-they were removed for violating the Reader's terms of service agreement, multiple times. . . .

135, 138, 144, 146 -- His lie that I violated the Reader's terms of service.

209 -- His lie that he wasn't lying.

===================== Once again, YOU violated the TOS, and that was not a lie. Truth can be painful sometimes. . . .

210 -- His lie that I claimed my posts had been removed. I never did and in fact tried to make him understand this. No luck.

=============== YOU were the one complaining about YOUR posts being removed, not me. . . But don't take my word for it. One of the website's own admins called bulls**t on him -- twice (#147 and #168). . . No one ever called me on anything. Nice try, but when you're a gov parasite, or apologist for them, you're bound to resort to lies to back your scams up.

And the funny thing is, this happened close to a year ago and russl is still pouting over it, but my objection to this gov parasite is not over his position; My objection is that he's a cry baby (maybe next year-2011- he will link to the old thread and whine some more) and a liar- and an insulting one too.

Hope this helped trough feeder.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:52 a.m.

I think 1,300 and change is the record

I thought one went over 1500........one did go well over 1K posts........

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 8:11 a.m.

Response to post #127: That's a full list. I await SP's reply. Yes, SP and I are in substantial agreement that the City cannot afford the employee pensions promised by earlier administrations. The retirement pay for all employees is outrageous. That's why I put it on the Reader website. I think he goes overboard attacking safety employees for alleged lack of education, being on Easy Street, etc., although these are points that should be discussed while the City is in bankruptcy court. I certainly agree with him that employees' total pay (salary plus pension) is too high and there have to be big slashes if San Diego is to survive financially. I also agree that safety employees' claim that they would quit en masse to take the same jobs elsewhere is not true. Those jobs aren't available. If they went to many other cities, such as in the Midwest, they would take big pay cuts. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 8:16 a.m.

Response to post #128: But suppose that Russl is NOT a government parasite? I believe he said he was not. He said his posts had not been removed. How do you know that they were? Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 8:19 a.m.

Response to post #129: For the one that went over 1,300, I was not responsible for half the posts, as I normally am. If any went over 1,500 -- and I don't remember that -- I would not have contributed half. When a relatively small number of posters get into a squabble, I usually step aside. Best, Don Bauder

0

Founder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 8:23 a.m.

Reply #123 I agree that the City of SD is now running on "Empty"!

Our Mayor and our Leaders fall into one of these 3 groups:

  1. "Greedy", don't care, they want to grab as much as they can, before BK happens, for themselves and their Major Money Supporters (who will be around to help them "after" BK)...

  2. "Concerned" but don't have the Political guts to demand "Publicly", that we need a BK commission ASAP!

  3. "Clueless", about the enormity of the fiscal problem and or solutions.

Sadly, the majority fall into group #1, an couple into Group #2 and the rest into Group #3.

This is why our City is doomed and not "just" to go BK (Bankrupt)!

What we will see now is the RUSH to privatization of City "Services & Businesses" as outlined in the "Pro Business" CRRECC (Citizens Revenue Review and Economic Competitiveness Comm.) and pushed for by those in Group #1, as they try and squeeze control away from the City and put it into Private hands (think of the Game Monopoly) before BK takes control away from them.

These changes, which once done, will have not only have a HUGE negative affect on our quality of life here in San Diego but will also provide Political Payback to all those that have supported the above Politicos, who all will just refer to it as "Doing Business". This will be referred to as San Diego getting New York'd ...

One potential solution, would be for the Public to ASAP demand a recall election or whatever it is called, to replace BOTH the entire City Council and the Mayor because they have allowed the City to get into this fiscal situation and are clearly not capable of providing the required fiscal Leadership to save our City!

Paying for a special election, to refill all those positions would be the best investment the City could make in these "dark times"...

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 5, 2010 @ 11:08 a.m.

I think he goes overboard attacking safety employees for alleged lack of education, being on Easy Street, etc., although these are points that should be discussed while the City is in bankruptcy court.

I plead guilty.

But still, when someone is whining about some comments that happened nearly a year ago, that is going overboard.

Seriously, does he still gripe and hold grudges from disputes that happened in 2nd grade?????

0

Russ Lewis Sept. 5, 2010 @ 11:29 a.m.

You'll notice, caped one, that Don asked me to be specific in #124, so I did. All I had to do was look it up. And even when cold busted in the light of day (by JAS), the lies keep coming. I'll PM the flagged comments if you've forgotten them, but not here.

0

Founder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 12:15 p.m.

Reply #130 & #134 RE: "I think he goes overboard attacking safety employees for alleged lack of education, being on Easy Street, etc., although these are points that should be discussed while the City is in bankruptcy court."

I disagree, if only because of the Pro Union supporters spreading their, "We're Heros and you better fund US or else folks will be dying left and right", talk!

There needs to be MORE public discussion about "our" City's current situation and comparing what these (and all other) City EMPLOYEES are being paid in relationship to other businesses being run today, because it just make good fiscal sense!

This discussion should not be held later, maybe behind closed doors, to be discussed only while the City is in bankruptcy court. The Public needs to understand what these employees are being paid today, what fabulous pensions they already have and that the City cannot afford to continue to fund them and still not go bankrupt! The voters should understand how their Leaders have given away the majority of the City's past and future budget to employee benefits, which also includes these Leaders benefits!

Consider many if not most of these job positions have employees:

  1. That are highly overpaid by todays std., considering their education.

  2. Whose members & their unions are "too" involved with political elections.

  3. Selected by questionable hiring practices, not an open "fair" process.

  4. That "churn" the top positions to maximize retirement pensions.

  5. That are able to retire (and receive pensions) long before age 65.

  6. That have no min. years of service before Retirement/pension begins.

  7. That have huge overtime incomes that are considered a "normal" benefit.

  8. Filling positions where there are 100's of applicants for each job opening.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 5, 2010 @ 3 p.m.

You'll notice, caped one, that Don asked me to be specific in #124, so I did. All I had to do was look it up. And even when cold busted in the light of day (by JAS), the lies keep coming. I'll PM the flagged comments if you've forgotten them, but not here.

By russl

Once again, for the one who tells whoppers, my previous comment;

Seriously, does he still gripe and hold grudges from disputes that happened in 2nd grade?????

By SurfPuppy619 11:08 a.m., Sep 5, 2010

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 5, 2010 @ 3:04 p.m.

Reply #130 & #134 RE: "I think he goes overboard attacking safety employees for alleged lack of education, being on Easy Street, etc., although these are points that should be discussed while the City is in bankruptcy court."

I disagree, if only because of the Pro Union supporters spreading their, "We're Heros and you better fund US or else folks will be dying left and right", talk!

================================= Thank You, Founder.

I may go over the top on the GED comments, but no more than the spin from public employees who were given unearned, retroactive pension increases of 50%, which have driven the city into a cash flow bankruptcy.

0

Founder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 3:27 p.m.

Reply #138 Any idea how we might get a listing of the "public employees who were given unearned, retroactive pension increases of 50%, which have driven the city into a cash flow bankruptcy"?

I'm not doubting you at all, just mentioning that such a GIFT LIST would be very exciting especially if it was a "large" GIFT LIST and or has lots of politically connected folks on it, that are still promoting for more of the same from the City!

It's my best guess, that there are many, many folks laughing behind all the poor tax payers backs in San Diego, while they bank their enormous monthly pensions, thanks to the City "Gravy Train"; and as all old pet owners know, "Gravy Train" makes it's own Gravy!

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 5, 2010 @ 5:30 p.m.

LOL...now I have russl sending me private messages with the claims I "flagged" his posts!~!!!

Hey russl, if you have anything to post, please post it here-instead of sending these whoppers in private messages.

You had your posts were removed for violating the Reader's terms of service-you said you did not, but now you are admitting your posts were removed. I geuss that makes you the liar.

Why don't you and your buddy Jay Allen go have a cup of coffee together and plan your future together.

Hope this helped.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 5, 2010 @ 5:36 p.m.

Any idea how we might get a listing of the "public employees who were given unearned, retroactive pension increases of 50%, which have driven the city into a cash flow bankruptcy"?

Every cop and FF working for the city in 2001, when they passed that pension multiplier increase from 2% to 3%.

So a cop or ff earning a base pay of $100K in 2000 would have retired with a maximum of $60K after 30 years of service-2% of pay for every year worked.

BUT if they retired in 2001 after the multiplier was retroactively increased by 50% (that did not work for or earn), to 3% for every year worked-that boosted the pension to $90K after 30 years of service, 3% for every year worked instead of 2%. It was a give away plain and simple.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 5, 2010 @ 6:01 p.m.

I'll PM the flagged comments if you've forgotten them, but not here.

By russl 11:29 a.m., Sep 5, 2010

BTW- Why not tell us all how you got these so called flagged comments.

0

Founder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 6:12 p.m.

Reply #140 Great Post!

I guess that is why their Unions Leaders are called Financial HERO$ by their membership...

I look forward to hearing from all those that think, that San Diegans can afford to pay these "Dubai" rates...

Maybe you might consider, since you are a whiz at it, looking into what non California FF & PD are making these days for similar work; (one thing is sure, our City employees don't have to work in freezing weather)!

BTW: If I remember correctly, wasn't J. Vargas and T. Atkins on that City Council? If I'm wrong then perhaps you could list those that "gave the farm away"!

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:06 p.m.

Response to post #133: I think by far the largest numbers are in #3 -- clueless. They won't notice as San Diego -- including Balboa Park -- is privatized. Socialization of the risk and privatization of the gain is San Diego's shibboleth. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:08 p.m.

Response to post #134: You could moderate the GED statements. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:10 p.m.

Response to post #135: You have been challenged to prove you are not a liar, SP. I wish we could do that to politicians. Best, Don Bauder

0

Founder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:12 p.m.

Reply #144 Don't forget to add Unions to that "To Do" list...

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:15 p.m.

Response to post #136: You make some good points that should be discussed. You say the public should learn exact retirements. They were posted on this site a couple of weeks ago. The head begins "Rolls Out, Rolls Out...." Go to that blog and click in the indicated place and you will what the retirees are paid. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:17 p.m.

Response to post #137: Maybe he is saying that an untruthful statement uttered on a prior blog is an indication of character. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:19 p.m.

Response to post #138: At least you are not draining the City financially, SurfPup. It's like that bumper sticker: "No One Died When Clinton Lied." Best, Don Bauder

0

Founder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:20 p.m.

Reply #146 I posted on that GREAT BLOG also; Now if we could interest some more folks to "wake up" we would be doing San Diego a BIG service... + Maybe the voters should call US Fiscal Hero's also, but we would be too cool to accept pensions increases that we didn't deserve!

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:21 p.m.

Response to post #139: That would be interesting information. I don't know whether we could get it from the City. Best, Don Bauder

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:21 p.m.

Looks like russl is now having his buddy erase my comments-hey russl, like I said, please let us know how you were able to access flagged comments.

I see my post about Jay Allen is missing too!!! Wow, that is a shocker!

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:24 p.m.

Response to post #140: It was a giveaway that originated with the City draining the pension fund to pay for the Republican convention of 1996, and unions demanding something in return. Best, Don Bauder

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:27 p.m.

Maybe he is saying that an untruthful statement uttered on a prior blog is an indication of character.

russl is still whining about some comments of his that were deleted (for violating the Readers terms of use) from nearly a YEAR AGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that is a whiner.

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:27 p.m.

Response to post #141: I think you will find that FFs and police are paid less in other metro areas, on balance, but I don't know for sure. Best, Don Bauder

0

Founder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:29 p.m.

Reply #152

"Rep. Conv.-Gate" opens the door for Union "gifts" that bankrupt SD?

0

Don Bauder Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:29 p.m.

Response to post #153: As I recall, Russl disputed that his comments had been deleted. Best, Don Bauder

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:33 p.m.

It was a giveaway that originated with the City draining the pension fund to pay for the Republican convention of 1996, and unions demanding something in return.

That was a quid pro quo bribe, and the union/pension fund directors VIOLATED their fiduciary duty by agreeing to the bribe.

The duty of the pension fund directors- first, foremost and primary- is to make sure the pension fund is financially secure and stable-and by agreeing to te under funding (in exchange for huge retro benefits increases) they violated that fiduciary duty, because the under funding has basically bankrupted the pension fund.

The public employees should NOT blame me, Don, the taxpayers or anyone else-they should blame their UNION DIECTORS and the elected officials that hatched the scam-it was not the public that caused the meltdown. The blame lies squarely on the pension fund directors and the elected officials.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 5, 2010 @ 7:35 p.m.

You could moderate the GED statements

I will work on that.

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 6, 2010 @ 8:24 a.m.

Hey, it looks like Jay Allen erased my comment yet again.

Hey Jay-I have this one saved, and I am going to keep reposting it just for you buddy;

153.

Looks like russl is now having his buddy erase my comments-hey russl, like I said, please let us know how you how you were able to access flagged comments. I see my post about Jay Allen is missing too!!! Wow, that is a shocker!

By SurfPuppy619 7:21 p.m., Sep 5, 2010

0

nan shartel Sept. 6, 2010 @ 10:05 a.m.

i miss the blaggards who used to play here in this sandbox....hahahahahahaha ;-))

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs

~~it brings a tear to my eye~~

for outright indiscriminate mistreatment of each other...u guys and gals were the best!!!

0

SurfPuppy619 Sept. 6, 2010 @ 10:59 a.m.

Nan, it's like K-6 all over again!

Pretty funny when you think about it-grown adults we call ourselves!

0

nan shartel Sept. 6, 2010 @ 5:01 p.m.

163

i know...a tempest in a teapot...hahahahahahahahaha...fingers flying over the keyboards.... ;-)

0

Don Bauder Sept. 6, 2010 @ 8:15 p.m.

Response to post #159: If one accepts your definition that it was a bribe, note that neither the briber nor the bribee got into trouble. 'Twas ever thus. Best, Don Bauder

0

Don Bauder Sept. 6, 2010 @ 8:18 p.m.

Response to posts #160-164: I don't know about these erasures and don't know who Jay Allen is. Best, Don Bauder

0

Founder Sept. 7, 2010 @ 8:19 a.m.

Reply #165 A more up to date for these folks would be: "Richer and Richee"

All these folks are "still" laughing their way to the Bank.

0

Don Bauder Sept. 7, 2010 @ 8:53 a.m.

Response to post #167: You are putting your finger on how the world works -- unfortunately. Best, Don Bauder

0

Founder Sept. 7, 2010 @ 1:43 p.m.

Reply #168

Too bad we all can't "give 'em" the finger instead!

0

Don Bauder Sept. 7, 2010 @ 6:37 p.m.

Response to post #169: You can certainly flip the bird at the superrich. But if you get caught, don't expect a judge to be on your side. Best, Don Bauder

0

Sign in to comment

Join our
newsletter list

Enter to win $25 at Broken Yolk Cafe

Each newsletter subscription
means another chance to win!

Close