Image

go read RefriedGringos blog about this day..known here as Halloween...and South of the border as The Day Of the Dead

it's a deeply and complete lesson in cultural difference and similarities in our two countries

thx for doing the blog Refried..i loved it homey!!!

Comments

David Dodd Oct. 31, 2009 @ 8:11 p.m.

Thanks, nan! I love that image, it captures the very spirit of the celebration!

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CuddleFish Oct. 31, 2009 @ 8:34 p.m.

Oh yes, I read that thread. yawn Nothing new.

Now AG's replies, those were a deeply fascinating, fresh, original, crisp, sparkling exploration of the subject. Had she written a thread on the topic, swoooooooon. I die, as Rachel Zoe says.

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antigeekess Oct. 31, 2009 @ 8:42 p.m.

Re #4:

I thought refried did a very nice job with a concise piece about a vast subject. I was overwhelmed at the idea of attempting it myself. My ADD impairs my ability to narrow things down and focus. I'm not too good at being concise.

Thanks for the kudos, though.

:)

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CuddleFish Oct. 31, 2009 @ 8:49 p.m.

Well, my dear, your reply was a piece on the subject. You ought to copy it out, expand it, and post it as a thread, I'd love to add my thoughts, measly as they are. :)

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CuddleFish Oct. 31, 2009 @ 9:39 p.m.

By the way, nan, as I recall you were going to tell us a ghost story you were saving, I thought for today? I've been saving my best creepy-crawly scareyness for that story!!!

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nan shartel Nov. 1, 2009 @ 11:57 a.m.

i think....

that the confluence of two worthy conversation on the subject between Anti and Refried is what made the piece so much more appealing..it was synergistic..it created a more relevant and appealing piece...i say put the two together and send it it in to the reader next year as a Day Of The Dead piece

i considered Anti's comments when i PRed the blog here...but not one or the other...but both...eastern logic u know

BOTH

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nan shartel Nov. 1, 2009 @ 11:59 a.m.

scary story...why yes i can...give me a bit...it's true of course...i only repeat true stories unless i'm dicussing how hard it is to make a terrier clean up after his Halloween party

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CuddleFish Nov. 1, 2009 @ 1:17 p.m.

LOLOLOLOLOL At least you have a shot at getting your little fellow to clean up, my cats assure me that I am their house slave and they would never deign to lift a claw to help me. :)

Looking forward to the scary story!!! xxxx

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nan shartel Nov. 1, 2009 @ 1:42 p.m.

Cats r like that...dang em...that's why i have a dog...hahahahahaha

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antigeekess Nov. 1, 2009 @ 2:08 p.m.

"...but not one or the other...but both...eastern logic u know

BOTH"

You got it, nanners!

:)

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CuddleFish Nov. 1, 2009 @ 2:40 p.m.

I suppose I expect superior writers to write to higher standards than others. I go back to B.T. Shaw's guidelines for poetry, with some modification they apply to prose as well. As you said in another post, AG, when you read something, you expect to be educated or entertained; so do I. A mediocre piece from a gifted writer disappoints. On the other hand, it did produce that amazingly interesting and intricate piece from you. :)

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nan shartel Nov. 1, 2009 @ 4:32 p.m.

anti G...thankie my lil buddhist...hahahahahahaha...i too follow Eastern logic and pray for inductive logic to fall into my head...hahahahahaha...but perhaps the Universe has that penciled in for only those with Buddha characteristics

i refuse to put a great deal of expectation in symbiotic relationship...but if they can be raised to synergy I'm all for it!!!

i enter the circle daily and pledge my troth to Universal wanderings with open eyes and ears...my the Universe tune me like a flawless crystal to it's needs

but as I'm imperfect i accept my own optimum potential and possibility of growth...cause that's just how i roll....hahahahahahaha

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nan shartel Nov. 1, 2009 @ 4:41 p.m.

Cuddles my doll...i too love the excitement of the instant gratification that comes when a superior writer does a new and completely brilliant piece

but many times the beauty and excitement is there upon a second reading...or the really brilliant piece can only be attained when the limited piece is committed to...many writers think it thru in print and have the courage to let those who care about them in on the original imperfect draft

and of course each member of the audience perceives it differently

it's like the Chargers..u become a fan...and then u love them good bad or indifferent

poor analogy

they're never brilliant....hahahahahahaha

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David Dodd Nov. 1, 2009 @ 5:28 p.m.

Web log entries aren't supposed to be literary masterpieces. Except for the kindness of the Reader having a monthly contest, everyone is freely sharing their thoughts here, using pieces of their life or simply saying what is on their mind at the moment. Literary works are held to a much higher standard, and the author ostensibly gets paid for taking the time to painstakingly edit and craft what they are doing.

I wrote "Ghost Story" in two beers (probably an hour and a half). And most of that time was researching to ensure that my points about the Aztecs and Celts and so on were accurate. If everyone decided to make sure that their web log entries were brilliant rather than mediocre, we wouldn't have much to read. We would be spending all of our time editing.

A literary friend of mine happened upon "Ghost Story" this morning and dropped me a line. We are very good friends, I consider him a brother. He is an excellent writer and perhaps an even better editor. He is also an amazing poet. Like me, he is entirely bilingual, but unlike me, he excels at translation.

If he wrote fiction, there is no doubt that he would be my mentor.

I pictured the smirk on his face when he wrote this:

"Structurally, you use words like "obviously" and "certainly" and "invariably" too much. You don't need them to prop up your arguments. But then, you know me: always gots to pick at any little thing that I don't quite like. Still an insecure arrogant piss-wad. Me, I mean. Not you. You're just a good writer and more."

He is absolutely right (note, I said "absolutely" with "right", it is something that one very much avoids in literary fiction). These are needless adverbs in most contexts. Except in dialog, anything that ends in -ly should be scrutinized. But in a web log the narrative is usually non-fiction and in the first-person. That's about as close to dialog as you can get without using quotation marks and dialog tags.

My point is, there isn't a blog entry in here that wouldn't improve 100% from going over it and editing the hell out of it, my own included. But mostly we shouldn't. There are some quite famous ("quite" not being a necessary word, eh?) published authors that keep web logs and, trust me, they don't go out of their way to do anything other than to speak with their voice. In my opinion, that's all we're entitled to do.

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SDaniels Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:05 p.m.

re: #11: In Defense of Cats:

Mica never leaves evidence of whatever parties he and the mice carry on at night. He is neat, and even cleans his own plushy coat, daily. I've noticed that dogs do NOT clean their own coats, and the poor dears need us to do that for them. They also have more trouble leaving their "double chocolate biscuits sans chocolate" in one place--i.e. a box. :)

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SDaniels Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:10 p.m.

re: #15: Nan wrote:

"many writers think it thru in print and have the courage to let those who care about them in on the original imperfect draft..."

So, you are saying that good writers let people see their unfinished drafts? Why is that necessary?

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SDaniels Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:14 p.m.

re: #16: I would listen to your friend, refried. We should take it from people we can take it from easily--as long as they know what they are talking about.

PS: When did the word go from "dialogue" to "dialog?" Is this a computer-related phenom? :)

refried wrote:

"My point is, there isn't a blog entry in here that wouldn't improve 100% from going over it and editing the hell out of it, my own included. But mostly we shouldn't."

Why shouldn't we? What is this championing of sloppy work, people? Not that mine isn't--but I want to aspire to better, not worse, and don't see that there is really any supportable theory of a sloppy aesthetic.

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CuddleFish Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:16 p.m.

My cats are completely untidy. I would say half of my everyday cleaning has to do with them. Between the litter boxes and the fur and the hairballs and the mess they make with their food, oh and the teaspoons to scrap the food out of their packets, and that's not counting the things they knock down, break, scratch up. Lord!

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CuddleFish Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:23 p.m.

Exactly, SDaniels. We can choose to churn out safe little essays. Or we can swing for the fences. Did I mix a metaphor there? I am speaking only of talented writers, of course. Standards of excellence should vary according to talent, IMO. No one would expect me to be Tony Gwynn. :)

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David Dodd Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:25 p.m.

No, not a sloppy aesthetic, that isn't what I mean. Simply that voice is more important and practice makes people better. And if we're editing we're not writing.

And dialog is apparently the same as dialogue, unless one is intend to produce an open agreement, when apparently the the "ue" is required. Don't ask me why, I have no idea. I grew up using "ue" and later learned that it wasn't necessary.

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antigeekess Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:31 p.m.

refried's buddy wrote:

"Structurally, you use words like "obviously" and "certainly" and "invariably" too much. You don't need them to prop up your arguments. But then, you know me: always gots to pick at any little thing that I don't quite like. Still an insecure arrogant piss-wad. Me, I mean. Not you. You're just a good writer and more."

Isn't "pisswad" one word?

And isn't "insecure, arrogant pisswad" pretty much a synonym for the word "writer" to begin with? Almost invariably, and certainly obviously, this is usually commonly the case.

;)

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SDaniels Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:41 p.m.

re: #20: Your cats are bullying you--they outnumber you, clearly :)

re: #22: If we are editing, we are not writing--that is not at all true of my process. I've noticed that half the 'writing' happens in the process of revision, wh includes editing. I guess it is a matter of whatever works for the individual; many a thesis has been written on the creative process, but it just comes down to whatever works for you--IMO.

"Dialogue" is intended to produce open agreement?" WTF? I'd better check into that! I also want to check into the computer term "dialog," as in "analog, dialog," as it has got to have had something to do with the replacement of one by the other.

re: #23: Clearly, AG would not appreciate a critic of her work :)

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David Dodd Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:41 p.m.

@AG Yeah, I mean, writers can be that way, especialy when they compete. Poets seem to be worse about it. He's really a sweetheart, though. Maybe literary license includes a pisswad license? ;)

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David Dodd Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:46 p.m.

""Dialogue" is intended to produce open agreement?" WTF? I'd better check into that! I also want to check into the computer term "dialog," as in "analog, dialog," as it has got to have had something to do with the replacement of one by the other."

That's my understanding. You can use either, except when such "dialogue" is intended to produce an agreement. I'm at a total loss to explain why, but my dictionary backs that up. The internets might provide better insight.

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antigeekess Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:53 p.m.

nan wrote:

"i enter the circle daily and pledge my troth to Universal wanderings with open eyes and ears...my the Universe tune me like a flawless crystal to it's needs"

Well, if you can't tune it to yours, that's the next best thing, isn't it?

;)

Oh my. I just went over to YouTube to see what I could see regarding a visual representation of "symbiosis." I found this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR44N3gfP0M

I dunno about you, but I think this may be the greatest piece of performance art I've ever seen.

Too bad it cuts off at around 11 minutes. Goshdarn YT time limit!

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nan shartel Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:57 p.m.

goodness gracious...and WEE!!!

here we go into communicative instruction couch in impressionism...now isn't that nice!!!

even computers had to be created (like they r a living entity and excuse my injecting humanity into everything i stumble over) with fuzzy logic.......hhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmm...it seems to be a constant for improvement in original thought

swing for the fences...what if u don't want to swing for the fences...what if u want to tell that heart warming bedtime story that we as adult still need but aren't allowed to have anymore

what if u want the ball in the park so we get to continue to play...what if no one wants to win...and only want to play til the sun goes down and the stars come out...then we want to sit down and just enjoy being together

what about that???

all of u r fine writers...bloggers par excellence...all of u strive to write fine pieces...i have great respect for u...I'm proud u like and visit me even tho i only serve up a lollipop to suck on as u slowly close ur eyes

a sweet for ur inner child...and i read all of you to partake of the who u r written between ur lines

SDaniels....why not show ur less superior work...it becomes a way for other to give an opinion...to take or not...advice of what to do next...does that impinge upon the writer's originality???

or is it just slower forward movement???

i am not a writer...I'm a poet and i wander the meadowland of words cast out thru inner space to create feelings...word music is my hope

i love and respect all of the opinions here...even those concerning...OMG...CATS!!!

and damn it!!!

now u've got me editing!!!!

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antigeekess Nov. 1, 2009 @ 6:59 p.m.

Daniels wrote:

re: #23: Clearly, AG would not appreciate a critic of her work :)

Usually, no. :)

re #25:

:)

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nan shartel Nov. 1, 2009 @ 7:12 p.m.

Anti G...i loved that link...it is so amazing...i was a Modern Dancer in my youth

did u see his stomach heaving when he threw her out...as if something needed had been transgressed...u found the most awe inspiring u tube graphic equivalent

i wasn't thinking exactly of symbiosis as the only time that it completely possible is in utero

and can one tune the Universe Anti G...would i want to..no..why would i want to limit the unlimitless Universe with my small offerings...if my humility could be tuned by me i would try

and poets don't have a pisswad licence Refried...so have at it if u have other thoughts about poems

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nan shartel Nov. 1, 2009 @ 7:21 p.m.

when i was in my thirties i wanted to get a degree in Semantic...at times like this i wish i had....hahahahahahaha

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nan shartel Nov. 1, 2009 @ 7:28 p.m.

thank u all for this fine non frivolous conversation...and that's what i consider this...a fine conversation...with warm friends who r inquisitive and kind spirited

u've all graced my blog with much depth and wisdom today

Darshan

which is a Japanese word that means we all stand in our individual truths with perfect acceptance of each other

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antigeekess Nov. 1, 2009 @ 7:21 p.m.

I thought it was pretty amazing too, nan. There are a lot of labels you could give his character, I think. It's fascinating -- he's both supportive and symbiotic. Look at the facial expressions -- his careful, intense study of her. SHE is leading HIM, but she doesn't know it.

That's some deep s***, right there.

"...and can one tune the Universe Anti G...would i want to..no..why would i want to limit the unlimitless Universe with my small offerings..."

Well, there is that school of thought that says your offerings are not so very small. Unconscious, yes.

:)

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nan shartel Nov. 1, 2009 @ 7:45 p.m.

SDaniels..i have to thank you for ur input here as i can't find ur blog....hahahahahahahaha

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antigeekess Nov. 1, 2009 @ 7:49 p.m.

nan wrote about Darshan,

"...which is a Japanese word that means we all stand in our individual truths"

Or, our Me-verse, as I've begun calling it. Very California, don't you think?

;)

Daniels' blog is in the Banker's Hill section, BTW.

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nan shartel Nov. 1, 2009 @ 8:14 p.m.

thx AntiG...and where's ur pray tell...in the "beyond SD"???

in the very intellectual Northern California methinks homey...hahahahahaha

thank you too babe

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SDaniels Nov. 1, 2009 @ 8:48 p.m.

Nan, your poke in #34 might as well stand, as my blogs are pretty much graveyards at this point--but have at 'em. I'll write more, but am having a lot of fun reading everyone else's at the moment.

Lawd, I thought "Darshan" was your real-world name! :)

Have you, nan, and AG ever heard of Dogugaeshi? Ancient Japanese screen and puppet work? We saw Basil Twist recently at UCSD--amazing stuff:

http://www.theatermania.com/content/news.cfm?int_news_id=11544&showComments=recent

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antigeekess Nov. 1, 2009 @ 9:05 p.m.

Yes, nan, I'm in Beyond SD. Where I currently reside is far from an intellectual mecca. I think you've visited my very limited blogging efforts, haven't you?

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/antigeekess/

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antigeekess Nov. 1, 2009 @ 9:12 p.m.

Re #38:

This is neat, but it doesn't look like what you linked to, Daniels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHc0kGt8zIA

No, never seen any of his work before.

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SDaniels Nov. 1, 2009 @ 9:25 p.m.

AG, yes, that's exactly it-- I meant to include a link for a review of the show AND some excerpts--which you've now included. There is a dreamy, meditative, and very acid-trippy quality to the entire performance, and we were glad that Twist & Co. picked up on this ancient form of puppetry and screen work--indigenous to a small Japanese island. I got to talk to a few of the puppeteers after the show; nearly as fun as watching :)

Wow, thanks to nan for reminding me of my blogs--there was a comment from a guy who wrote a fantastic piece here for the travel section:

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2009/sep/10/space-death-and-memory-my-summer-vacation-quartzsi/

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