Some Pacific Beach residents claim that retail in the neighborhood’s business districts cater to visitors and ignore residents.
  • Some Pacific Beach residents claim that retail in the neighborhood’s business districts cater to visitors and ignore residents.
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"They were successful in banning alcohol at the beach, and they are now going into the business district to come after the businesses,” says Eric Lingenfelder, part owner of the Tavern at the Beach sports bar on Garnet Avenue. “It’s no surprise. We’ve seen this coming for a while now.”

Lingenfelder’s suspicions come in response to recent complaints from Pacific Beach residents about the area’s retail businesses. Some people feel that the business district doesn’t provide for the entire community but instead caters to the 18-to-24 age group.

“I don’t think our area is a resident-friendly area,” says Jerry Hall, who’s lived in Pacific Beach for 18 years and is vice president of the Pacific Beach Town Council. Hall has spent years trying to diminish what he calls the “fraternity lifestyle” in Pacific Beach.

“It’s a real tough business environment for nonalcohol-related establishments,” he says. “Besides the 11 marijuana dispensaries, retail is getting killed right now.”

But residents are not the only ones complaining about the retail mix in Pacific Beach. Now, some business owners are concerned that retail shops along Garnet Avenue are being chased out by bars, gyms, marijuana dispensaries, and tattoo shops.

Jeff Kinney drives west on Garnet, pointing out businesses on either side of the street. “There’s a tattoo parlor, smoke shop, there’s another smoke shop, a bar, bar, another bar. There’s nothing to shop for on this block, absolutely no retail,” he says. In the short city block between Cass Street and Dawes, Kinney counts three smoke shops, four tattoo parlors, and five bars. Elsewhere along Garnet, he points to several vacant storefronts where retail businesses were forced to shut down.

Kinney has seen the Pacific Beach business district change since he opened his surf shop in 1980. Since 2007, he says, that change has been for the worse — less foot traffic, more trash and litter, and more untrimmed palm trees. But most of all, he sees more retail businesses struggling and more empty storefronts.

At first Kinney thought the decline in shoppers along Garnet could be attributed to the recession. But now he thinks it’s due to both the economy and the commercial direction in which Pacific Beach is headed.

“Why is it that we have seven tattoo parlors and a vacancy comes up and another tattoo parlor comes in?” Kinney asks. “It’s oversaturated. Landlords and businesses aren’t talking, and more and more retail is leaving the area. Foot traffic is down because people aren’t always in need of a tattoo, a cheap dress, or a water pipe.”

Among the neon-colored signs advertising bars and tattoo parlors along Garnet are 17 empty retail storefronts where clothing boutiques and furniture stores once operated. And many business owners are staying open only until their lease expires.

Mike Klonowski owns Crossroads Unique Boutique, a smoke shop near the corner of Garnet and Cass that sells posters, T-shirts, and water pipes. Klonowski has decided to close his business. He blames a decline in sales on the abundance of smoke shops and marijuana dispensaries.

“I’m ready to move on,” he says. “Sales are down. I’ve had to lay some people off. I work 10 to 12 hours every day. There are just not many people out shopping or walking down Garnet anymore.”

The poor retail mix is an old issue for Pacific Beach. Back in 1995, the updated community plan noted that new businesses were targeting visitors and not residents. “Since the late 1970s there has been a steady conversion of community-serving establishments to primarily visitor-serving novelty stores, a condom shop, nightclubs, fast-food restaurants and strip-commercial shopping centers,” reads the plan.

Although the situation has been ongoing for 30 years, recently residents and business owners have asked the Pacific Beach Business Improvement District to do a better job recruiting new retail businesses to the area.

Established in 1997, the district — called Discover Pacific Beach — is the second-largest business improvement district in San Diego. The district is responsible for promoting local businesses, recruiting new businesses, and managing improvement projects.

Every year each of the district’s 1300 business owners pays an assessment to Discover Pacific Beach. In 2010, the assessment totaled $147,000. In addition, the improvement district also received $178,000 from special events, grants, and membership fees. Of the $325,000 total, $183,300 was spent on operating costs such as rent, utilities, and salaries; $121,000 went to special events and promotions; and $7498 was spent on public improvement projects.

“The [business improvement district] is a total joke,” Klonowski, the smoke shop owner, says. “They don’t do anything. I pay all this money and I have to trim my own palm trees.”

“More focus should go to recruiting new businesses,” says Jerry Hall. “There’s none of that happening. We have a great demographic here, but we are not recruiting the businesses to fit the needs of the residents.”

Kinney says he has offered ideas to bring more foot traffic to Garnet, such as closing the street for “bike to the beach” events and asking the business district to work with hotels and business owners to bring people to the business district.

But Andy Hanshaw, executive director of Discover Pacific Beach, says no amount of recruiting is going to change the types of businesses looking to open in Pacific Beach. Hanshaw rejects the claim that businesses are geared solely toward the younger crowd and says that he meets with commercial brokers to look at the “business climate.” “Our retail mix is strong and has all types of businesses,” he says. “Look at the majority of residents. There is a younger demographic here, so of course more of those types of businesses are going to come here.”

Adds sports bar owner Eric Lingenfelder, who sits on the board of Discover Pacific Beach, “I don’t think the individuals on the planning group or the town council are a true representation of the community. Any smart business going into Pacific Beach is going to target the largest demographic in the neighborhood.”

According to 2000 census data, Hanshaw and Lingenfelder are correct that Pacific Beach’s 46,071 residents tend to be young. The median age is 31. Almost half — 48.3 percent — are between the ages of 20 and 34 years old, and more than half have never been married.

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Comments

pbSpiritsdotcom April 6, 2011 @ 10:48 a.m.

The author didn’t mention that I do not represent the PB Town Council. I do not serve on the Town Council to address alcohol issues as I do just fine airing observations and thoughts at pbSpirits dot com.

Mr. Ligenfelder's statements that I or any PB residents are now set to 'come after the businesses' is an intentional distraction. Problems in the BID and the beach are two entirely different animals. Beach patrons were self-policed and didn’t do that great of a job. Have you been to the beaches lately?

Bars are trained to serve responsibly. How are they doing? One recent SDSU study, including observations at several PB bars (linked on my website), stated that servers gave a female patron, who would typically be able to process one shot of alcohol per hour, the equivalent of 8 shots of alcohol in under 50 minutes - over 90% of the time!

PB’s enormous levels of drunk driving arrests, alcohol crimes (over 1900% citywide average in PB's core) and the myriad of problems it causes our other good businesses - including I might add the reputation of the good alcohol operators - are inexcusable. These noisy few say they're blameless, that everyone pre-drinks excessively, that it's their patrons fault for getting so drunk... or, laughably that it's the tourists (ROFL). Maybe these guys should change their motto to 'Anybody's fault but ours'. In truth, these operators brag that over 99% of their employees are trained to serve responsibly yet, just how are all these people getting so drunk so consistently in our business district?

I support a conditional use permit (CUP) where all alcohol licensees pay into a fund, bigger or problematic ones would pay about $100 a month and the others about $35/month. This money would fund a focused ABC-trained SDPD Vice officer to mediate between the community and alcohol licensees and would enforce conditions designed to mitigate community concerns - things like too much noise, over-serving, chronic problems... things that they know they're responsible for but, openly violate because the state ABC and the SDPD don't have the resources to monitor them. The ABC and police are unable to adequately fund enforcement so shouldn’t the people making all the money (tens of millions in sales in PB alone) be the ones to pay for it?

I do not work to remove alcohol from PB's business district nor restrict in any way people's constitutional right to drink and have fun. However, I do work to hold the problematic bars and restaurants accountable for their actions.

So, cry me a river. To the BID and problem bars and restaurants - start working with the community and quit fighting it. We won't sit by and watch you continue to turn PB into a toilet while watching all the great businesses in PB get thrashed economically – and others avoiding us like the plague - just so you can continue to profit off of our backs. Enough is enough.

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pbSpirits_dot_com April 6, 2011 @ 11 a.m.

The author didn’t mention that I do not represent the PB Town Council. I do not serve on the Town Council to address alcohol issues as I do just fine airing observations and thoughts at www.pbSpirits.com. />

Mr. Ligenfelder's statements that I or any PB residents are now set to 'come after the businesses' is an intentional distraction. Problems in the BID and the beach are two entirely different animals. Beach patrons were self-policed and didn’t do that great of a job. Have you been to the beaches lately?

Bars are trained to serve responsibly. How are they doing? One recent SDSU study, including observations at several PB bars (http://tinyurl.com/3rdvasz), stated that servers gave a female patron, who would typically be able to process one shot of alcohol per hour, the equivalent of 8 shots of alcohol in under 50 minutes - over 90% of the time!

PB’s enormous levels of drunk driving arrests, alcohol crimes (over 1900% citywide average in PB's core) and the myriad of problems it causes our other good businesses - including I might add the reputation of the good alcohol operators - are inexcusable. These noisy few say they're blameless, that everyone pre-drinks excessively, that it's their patrons fault for getting so drunk... or, laughably that it's the tourists (ROFL). Maybe these guys should change their motto to 'Anybody's fault but ours'. In truth, these operators brag that over 99% of their employees are trained to serve responsibly yet, just how are all these people getting so drunk so consistently in our business district?

I support a conditional use permit (CUP) where all alcohol licensees pay into a fund, bigger or problematic ones would pay about $100 a month and the others about $35/month. This money would fund a focused ABC-trained SDPD Vice officer to mediate between the community and alcohol licensees and would enforce conditions designed to mitigate community concerns - things like too much noise, over-serving, chronic problems... things that they know they're responsible for but, openly violate because the state ABC and the SDPD don't have the resources to monitor them. The ABC and police are unable to adequately fund enforcement so shouldn’t the people making all the money (tens of millions in sales in PB alone) be the ones to pay for it?

I do not work to remove alcohol from PB's business district nor restrict in any way people's constitutional right to drink and have fun. However, I do work to hold the problematic bars and restaurants accountable for their actions.

So, cry me a river. To the BID and problem bars and restaurants - start working with the community and quit fighting it. We won't sit by and watch you continue to turn PB into a toilet while watching all the great businesses in PB get thrashed economically – and others avoiding us like the plague - just so you can continue to profit off of our backs. Enough is enough.

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pbSpirits_dot_com April 6, 2011 @ 12:07 p.m.

p.s. nor do I sit on the PB Planning Group... hmmmm... (Jerry Hall)

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toulon April 6, 2011 @ 11:20 a.m.

PB is a market that caters primarily to outsiders, mainly young singles and heavily at night. This was pointed out to me by a swing shift SDPD Sergeant years ago when I was preparing for a ride-along with him on a Thursday night in the summer. I watched in amazement as a string of cars began arriving as dusk settled in, and it continued for several hours. Parking is inadequate, so the so-called "revelers" park anywhere they can, in front of homes or sometimes in driveways, even at curbs at intersections. Large groups of young women together and young men together descend on the local bars and restaurants to have a few, maybe get lucky and "hook up".

There's often live entertainment as the night continues, and most restaurants stop serving food pretty early, although the booze flows until 2 AM. Most retail businesses have long ago shuttered, and you might legitimately ask, "Why don't boutiques, appliance stores, repair shops, stationery stores and the like stay open late to capture this demographic?" The store owners will tell you they attract few of these out-of-area visitors, even in the afternoon, and those they do get often cause trouble because they're drunk.

That's the bottom line. People come here primarily to drink and maybe get lucky with the opposite sex, or as one former President of the Town Council put it, to do things they can't do in their own communities. Bar and restaurant proprietors are making a killing; they control "Discover PB", are expanding their capacity and getting rich. Over serving is rampant, the police are complicit for not cracking down where they can and by stationing manpower on Garnet and Mission Blvd. to prevent or break up fights and handle accidents, in effect providing supplemental security instead of requiring bars to police themselves. When residents call for service during nighttime "bar hours", they are often told no one is available because they are busy at the bars.

Bar owners attitude toward community efforts to control their activities is what you'd expect, total opposition. Just follow the money.

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pbSpirits_dot_com April 6, 2011 @ 12:01 p.m.

Interesting comments from DiscoverPB's Mr. Hanshaw and his Hospitiality Task Force. Isn't a 'task force' supposed to be looking at problems and developing solutions for everyone involved?

If so, how is it helping by attacking the other groups and hundreds of members, that have been here decades longer than their own business 'improvement' district, and that have a rich legacy of service to this community?

Mr. Hanshaw says they have 'limited resources' to attract other businesses to PB - well, ones that contribute to the mix of businesses here. I wonder how many other BIDs around San Diego would love to have a 'limit' of $325 thousand to grow their communities?

He goes on to say the business 'improvement district' spent about 2% of their income on 'public improvement projects'. Does this include the dozen rubber trash cans they chained to our trees?

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PBLiving April 6, 2011 @ 2:58 p.m.

I'm really crying crocodile tears for poor, poor, POOR Mr. Lingenfelder, who wants to inflict more, more, and still more bars on PB residents.

Discover PB, the BID -- in PB that's Bar Improvement District -- does nothing to represent the vast bulk of its members but provides advocacy only for the bars, who dominate its board.

What about the interests of all the other businesses? So many are being crushed and driven out of business by the drunken customers who frequent these poorly run bars, notorious for over-serving drunks who then drive home drunk.

Like most PB residents, the only shopping I do in PB is for groceries. Only a few decent restaurants remain, since the rest have been turned into bars filled with obnoxious drunks. Few shops offer merchandise that would appeal to anyone over 25.

PB needs a better business mix. I'd happily shop there then, since I like patronizing local businesses. And what type of tourist wants to patronize the current business mix? Not the ones we want to attract.

The Bar Improvement District thinks that only bars belong in PB. Fortunately, not all bars have irresponsible operators. But the BID seems to ignore them and all the responsible business owners who just want a better business and customer mix, people who actually will come to PB, spend money in their businesses without wrecking them or urinating on their sidewalks.

These bar owners think they should control PB and that residents have no right to a voice in the future of the community.

Responsible bar owners, who monitor their patrons' consumption and don't overserve, are welcome in PB. These guys who control the Bar Improvement District only want to wreck our community and then move on to wreck someone else's community, while they laugh all the way to the bank.

We need a new regime in PB, one in which local residents and responsible business owners have a voice. The current BID certainly isn't it.

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InOmbra April 6, 2011 @ 4:30 p.m.

The City of San Diego's Development Services now oversees the BID Council and its individual member BIDs. (The Economic Development Division formerly did the "oversight".) The BID Council has established itself as the BID Foundation, a nonprofit (latest 990, 2009, EIN 330607406). http://www.bidcouncil.org/ http://www.sandiego.gov/development-services/smallbus/bids.shtml

Each year around this time the individual BIDs have to submit a budget and narrative to the City Council for approval. If you'd like a glimpse into the BID finances, watch the Council agendas for the docketed item. The Council has never failed to approve these budgets.

The FY 2009 PB BID narrative had the following budget:

Total Appropriations: $170K


Total Expenditures, $170K, as follows: Personnel (Salaries/Wages: $60K Office Costs: $20K Brochures, Newsletters, Production: $45K Special Events: $20K Maintenance, Beautification, Clearing: $20K Consulting Services: $3000 Other: $2000

Formerly, under the Economic Development Division, one of the main goals that individual BIDs were encouraged to pursue was to establish assessments on property owners in the business districts, and even properties on nearby noncommercial streets. The BID groups would have control over this money. No doubt with a larger appropriation, their overhead would go up.

Currently, North Park's BID, NP Main Street, is trying to levy a property tax because they "need" more money than can be taken from the business owners. Discover PB tried this in 2008/2009, but there was an outcry and Faulconer pulled the reins in on the attempt.

I'm glad there is no BID where I live.

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WhatsNewPussycat April 7, 2011 @ 9:56 a.m.

I live near Garnet. I never would have expected Crossroads Smoke Shop to close, they've been on the block (Garnet Ave) a long time. Some of their staff have been working there a long time. They need not worry, oppurtunities abound. Medical marijuana is a booming industry in this country so their long term employees should not have any trouble finding work (though they may have to leave San Diego due to the impending de facto ban the city council will vote to ratify this Tuesday). I always enjoyed looking at some of the things Crossroads had displayed in their window, in the early morning, when Garnet is deserted like a ghost town. Merchants have too much power, or too much latitude, in this area of town. Look at what that new burger joint did to the John Lennon mural, the mural that's located on the west wall of their restaurant. If the artist who painted that mural is reading this, perhaps they'll tell us if it makes any difference to them. I'm thinking a higher or lower form of degradation or something like it?

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959FelsparStreet92109 April 7, 2011 @ 11:48 a.m.

Some business owners in the article complained about a decrease in the amount of foot traffic. Traffic counters who monitor foot traffic on Garnet know that business owners lost approximately 100,000 pairs of human feet when the PB Block Party was put to death. (It was reported that 100,000 people attended the last PB Block Party.) Some Garnet Avenue businesses were glad to see District 2 councilman Kevin Faulconer kill the PB Block Party because some businesses complained about losing sales on the day of the event. The PB Block Party used to be held annually. Many San Diegans miss it.

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StupidShallyZomorodi April 7, 2011 @ 2:28 p.m.

Whatever happened to the local who looked just like Led Zeppelin singer Robert Plant? For years he used to hang out on Garnet Avenue, Mission Blvd, the boardwalk, etc. He was especially fond of hanging out at Cafe 976. Sometimes he appeared to be mentally unbalanced, you'd see him on the sidewalk screaming at people. He used to always wear sweat pants, gray sweat pants. He was always disheveled, or a little out of sorts. He was there for years, walkin' around, bikin' around. Any local would recognize him. His disappearance contributed to the decrease in foot traffic. Whatever happened to Robert Plant?

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pblocal99 April 7, 2011 @ 10:40 p.m.

I am raising my family in Pacific Beach. I love the bay and the beach, but the business district on Garnet is an "EYE SORE." I try to patronize local stores, but there are not many that I can buy things at. I took my son to GoodWill one day, and there was shouting and vulgarity coming from the Long Board Bar next door. I asked the Sales Lady if that was common, and she said it was, and very embarrassing to her and their patrons. This is the same type of behavior I have experienced on Garnet, with the many drunk and illmannered people who frequent this Business District day and night.The over concentration of bars, with their cheap drinks, pub crawls, and Party Buses which the bars encourage to visit their businesses, on many evenings do not paint a positive picture for our community! I heard the other day, that many of our local PB hotels are seeing more families visit since the Beach Alcohol Ban.Do you think those families go to Garnet? NO! They go to Little Italy, Sea Port Village, and other areas that they feel safer and can find items that meet their needs. We are loosing alot of business because of what we mostly have to offer, tattoo I know for sure, that Discover PB works hand in hand with the bars, especially with our local Hospitality Task Force. The Director of Discover PB seems to be out of touch with the negative impact the surrounding neighborhoods get. By the way, most of the PB bar owners, as well as the Director of Discover PB, do not live in Pacific Beach. It would be nice to drive friends from out of town down Garnet and not have it look like Revolution Avenue in Tijuana, which is actually looking better than Garnet these days!

Signed by a Concerned Resident

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Gina Larson April 8, 2011 @ 8:46 a.m.

No matter what town you live in you're bound to hear the Chamber of Commerce urge the local citizenry to 'Support your community by patronizing local businesses.'

I've always thought that a bunch of crock.

That's like asking for a handout.

I'm an experienced, wise shopper who lives in PB. I shop at places that offer the best price, the best customer service and the best product support, with the best warranty. And if that means I have to get in my car and drive across town to shop, or shop for said item on the Internet, then I'll do that.

Money is like a reward. If you want me to reward your business then you better, in exchange, be able to offer the things mentioned above. Because if you don't, I'll shop elsewhere, no matter how big your fake smile is no matter how warm and cheery your disingenuous personality is, no matter how many times you tell us how 'wonderful' your store is.

And don't try and sway me with that Better Business Bureau sticker or Yelp sticker you placed on your window. Because wise shoppers know that some businesses pay the BBB and Yelp a monthly fee in order to garner a favorable rating. If I see a BBB or Yelp sticker on your window it has the opposite effect, that sticker tells me you just might be a dishonest merchant.

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AcuteAnalogy April 8, 2011 @ 11:18 a.m.

I won't eat at restaurants that have tip jars. They are the fast food type restaurants like some of the ones you see on Garnet. I'm not down with tipping a fast food worker, that's ridiculous. Even worse, they expect a tip before they even start preparing your food, that's insulting. And you better believe that when it comes to some restaurants you better make sure that you tip them because if you don't some of them will sabotage your food as they prepare it. You won't catch them doing it because these are the type of restaurants where you are not able to see the employee preparing your food. Out of sight and out of mind, they are. The tip jar in these type of restaurants represents and helps facilitate acts of extortion. Think of it as a tax you pay in order to ensure that no one spit in your food.

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Ridiculous April 8, 2011 @ 2:56 p.m.

Gotta love the comments that PB has always been a party town. For all of those who say that, you are showing your age....

And in response to Raffesberger: If you asked any self-reliant 20 or 30 something PB resident who has lived here and considers it 'home', you will find that they wouldn't be caught dead on Garnet after 9pm. They like to party with class in the Gaslamp area! So, no, the age does not determine the business mix. And, a bit of information about Gaslamp since that history got by you: Downtown was a dump until funds built Horton Plaza. That changed the entire landscape downtown.

PB has a poor business mix that will ultimately create a huge blight problem, not unlike what happened in North Park (pretty much already is in progress). I guess that is what the City wants so it can get redevelopment money to clean up the mess. Meanwhile all the residents will get the worst of both worlds - low values for their properties and a hell hole to live in. But the commercial property owners will eventually have this problem too when all the businesses that can stick all their sales in their pockets rather than pay taxes on it are looooong goooone!

Yes, follow the money....

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Founder April 8, 2011 @ 7:35 p.m.

PB is sadly leading the way toward Business (read BAR/Club) Friendly BLIGHT but in reality, it means that these owners are reaping great profits while making it a crappy place for families to live, for all the locals that do not frequent those Party places or ENJOY LATE NIGHT NOISE! This has now also happened in North Park (by even some of the same PB Owners) and it has reduced property values for all those that live near by.

Some time soon, the Councilmembers will get the message that home owners deserve as much respect as these business owners, who I'm sure are really good at donating, because they can! Sadly, the Mayor is totally business friendly and that is not helping improve the quality of life in San Diego at all!

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ILoveSanDiego April 8, 2011 @ 9:59 p.m.

A certain councilmember whose initials are KF and who will be running for mayor might be the pro-homeowner councilmember you're looking for. He was instrumental in helping pass the law that bans alcohol on city beaches.

He's the same man who put an end to the PB Block Party.

In doing those things he just may have taken money away from local businesses.

Though I am very sorry to see that alcohol is no longer legal on our beaches and that the PB Block Party is history, I must admit KF might be your man. I'll give you a hint: he's a councilmember who represents PB.

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PacificBeachSeniorCitizen April 8, 2011 @ 11 p.m.

Honest to god I don't know what my fellow neighbors are talking about.

Look, most of the bars are on Garnet. Note that there's virtually no residential housing on Garnet. Therefore it stands to reason that in a community as large as PB very few residents are impacted by bar patrons who patronize bars on Garnet Avenue.

And I'll be the first to tell you that since San Diego is a tourist town with mucho tourists when out on the road you, the driver, need to be alert for the occasional drunk driver no matter what time of the day or what day of the week it is. Especially if you're riding around on two wheels.

I swear some of my neighbors talk as if PB is a war zone. Or as if they come under attack. Or as if PB is overrun with gangs. None of those things are true. Some of the people doing all the complaining might have OCD. You never know, since we can't see them, they might have something similar to OCD which would account for their perpetually pessimistic state of mind.

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pbSpirits_dot_com April 9, 2011 @ 2:44 p.m.

Strange - all the Kevin-bashing sounds just like the people who have told countless others to leave PB if we didn't like it, that we should've known the abuse we'd have to endure by moving here, that the abnormal crime in the evenings is a price we must pay as a neighborhood because of the thriving business economy and the 'millions' that visit PB. Oh, and that if all else fails blame the councilmember.

I believe over 250 thousand others, against their own personal interests, voted to remove alcohol from the beaches - not because they are party poopers. I believe it was because that half saw that public safety was paramount to one enjoying a personal luxury of being able to drink peacefully on a public beach. The other half's major proponents just yelled, taunted, belittled and ridiculed those of us that had the cajones to stand up and say that something was wrong that needed to be fixed so that ALL VISITORS TO THEIR BEACHES WOULD BE SAFE. Guess these opponents believe personal liberties only apply to one side - theirs.

Amzazing also how people bitter with a sitting councilmember will continue to mis-quote facts with I believe the intention to smear his name long into the future because of personal bitterness. I don't agree with everything he does - and I was one of the vocal ones questioning him at every beach alcohol task force - but, I do respect him for standing up for public safety and not being bullied by the people who harassed him (and other supporting councilmembers) in public forums, council meetings, by email and telephone.

Have you been to the beaches lately? I'm betting many tourists avoided PB like the plague because of the past alcohol issues. Our reputation is set. Since the business district has always been the third leg of the issue and as Mr. Ligenfelder stated - he knew they were next - it's time to focus on the last bastion of our negative reputation so that we can start attracting visitors that use many of PB's retail and service businesses - not just one segment at the peril of all others. Many of these bar and 'restaurant' businesses benefited significantly over the past many years but, as the saying goes all good things (the bars making hand over fist income while the rest of the community suffers) must come to an end one day.

The party isn't over in PB - we just need to hold the hosts responsible and to have a mechanism to discipline those hosts that abuse their right to do business in our community. Seems they'll fight tooth and nail to claim they are, that if any change would happen it should be someone else paying for it or, if that all doesn't work just continue to attack the heck out of their 'opponents'.

If you're happy with PB's business district being a toilet fine. I'm not.

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pbSpirits_dot_com April 9, 2011 @ 2:45 p.m.

The block party was stopped because the last one in 2005 had over 200,000 people (not 100k as in previous years) and councilmember Kevin Faulconer had VERY LITTLE to do with ceasing that event.

That was done by the three big PB community groups - starting with the BID oddly enough - who were concerned about the enormous negative effects on the community (http://www.sdnews.com/pages/full_story/push?article-Block+Party+Blocked%20&id=298503).

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PacificBeachSeniorCitizen April 9, 2011 @ 6:07 p.m.

I don't mind a few tattoo parlors. You're crazy if you think PB is "overrun" with tatt shops. If you think along those lines then you better define the word "overrrun" for us.

The tattoo parlors that I've seen tend to keep their shops clean, both the front side of their shop and that would be the side facing Garnet and the back of the store which would be the side facing the alley. And that's not something I can say about all of the businesses that line Garnet Avenue.

Tattoo parlors are good for Pacific Beach. Tattoos have been a part of San Diego for a long time. Tattoos are a part of our culture. If you don't like the looks of a relatively innocuous tattoo parlor then you should avoid certain sections of Garnet Avenue. There are no WARNING TATTOO PARLOR AHEAD signs for those with high-anxiety and/or OCD but maybe there should be lol.

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ILoveSanDiego April 10, 2011 @ 2:19 p.m.

Very stupid, indecent comment on your part. You gotta lot of posts. So you have people here who give you a long leash. Or maybe you run this site.

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WhatsNewPussycat April 10, 2011 @ 7:40 p.m.

In your thread starter you wish death on the people who live in PB. With that kind of an attitude I'd say you must know someone here. Otherwise eems to me you'd be banned. You might be the webmaster incognito trying to stir the pot, or someone on the team.

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AcuteAnalogy April 11, 2011 @ 12:44 p.m.

You said PB would be an exciting place for a tsunmi to hit. What kind of tsunami, a tsunami that's fatal or non-fatal?

Ditto for an earthquake.

You said PB would be an exciting place and would turn into a real party if it was hit by an earthquake. What kind of earthquake, one that is fatal or non-fatal?

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pershing26 Dec. 14, 2013 @ 8:26 p.m.

PB DID have a TSUNAMI warning way back in 1963 or 1964!!! The Big earthquake in Alaska created a Tsunami warning all the way down the coast to PB....people were evacuated in MB & PB at 2 am by the police going door to door....those who lived right close to the beach. But the tide only rose maybe 2 or 3 feet

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Founder April 10, 2011 @ 8:06 a.m.

PB is a seaside cool place but so is Cardiff, so is Del Mar; but what sets PB apart from them is the huge amount of alcohol related crime in PB...

Say what you want but that is a fact that most homeowners do not have to accept, why should they have their property values drop so some Bar/Club owners can make big profits from over serving? If our Leaders will not represent ALL voters (not just Business's) equally then it is time to elect new Leaders!

Over serving is a CRIME and those that profit from it are the sameones that are BLIGHTING Pacific Beach.

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BarfinPB April 10, 2011 @ 10:55 a.m.

So Eric, with your Swami ability (“It’s no surprise. We’ve seen this coming for a while now.”) you have chosen to do nothing about the problems that exist and just attack the community as a whole. Can you please explain to everyone why when a DUI takes place in PB and the survey is filled out of the place they had their last drink, your bar accounts for 18%? Swami #2. “I don’t think the individuals on the planning group or the town council are a true representation of the community. So I guess you are? Where do you live? Hint – not PB. I’m sure you have Gommer Pile working to show in court that residents are not residents and therefore and to whit have no meaning.

Andy, Andy, Andy, it’s all a conspiracy (Hanshaw considers the complaints about the retail mix to be another strategy by some residents to restrict alcohol consumption in Pacific Beach. “The people on the town council have spent a long time on alcohol, and it is a large part of their agenda,”) OK sheriff Andy, what is the number of new liquor licenses’ that Pacific Beach needs to become a great community? 100, 200, 300? Because, after all this will create other business’ like auto repair, detox centers, vomitoriums , tattoo removal, attorney centers, topless bars, Garnet avenue escort services and liver transplant cooperatives. The BID (Bar improvement district) ran off Floyd’s barber shop 7 years ago. Thelma Lou lost her job and is living at the library. Aunt Bee has been told to shut-up by Gommer. Opee has opened a collective and has a two word vocabulary of Duh and Winning, and the town of PB is filled with everyone named Otis. Welcome to Mayberry 2011. Good job boys! Remember, TV shows get canceled.

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nostalgic April 10, 2011 @ 10:58 a.m.

We were in PB on Friday and decided to have lunch there, but couldn't find a parking place, so we finally left and went home. We wanted to have lunch at Mr. Foster's Frosty Freeze. Too bad, another day.

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ILoveSanDiego April 10, 2011 @ 2:32 p.m.

You must mean Mr. Frosties on Garnet. The cross street would be Haines. It's right next door to RT's Longboard Grill. On Mr. Frosties MySpace page it says they've been in business since 1949. I've been to Mr. Frosties, been more than once. There's something about that place.

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pershing26 Dec. 14, 2013 @ 8:57 p.m.

Us locals from the 60's always called it "the Frosty Shop".....and yes...it was born in 1949....just like me !

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BlueSouthPark April 11, 2011 @ 8:54 a.m.

You are supposed to be riding a bike! what's WRONG with you...don't you know there is no free parking? Donald Shoup said so. Don't you want to be GREEN?

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SurfPuppy619 April 11, 2011 @ 10:26 a.m.

We wanted to have lunch at Mr. Foster's Frosty Freeze

I think it is "Tasty Freeze" unles they have changed the name....was always a favorite place of mine!

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Gina Larson April 11, 2011 @ 1:25 p.m.

Sorry but I'll have to discredit your post so as not to mislead others. There is no "Tasty Freeze" store in PB. If you think there is please post their address and phone number. If there is a store in PB you can be certain their contact info is available online.

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SurfPuppy619 April 11, 2011 @ 5:22 p.m.

Sorry but I'll have to discredit your post so as not to mislead others. There is no "Tasty Freeze" store in PB.

Sorry, I will have to re-discredit you InglouriousBasterd, it used to be called Tastee Freeze and may still go by that name, I thought it was always called Tasty Freeze but they may have changed the name, it is located right next to the old Warehouse record and video store, one block west of Ingram.......I used to go there ALL the time and knew the family that ran it-at least as a customer. The Mom's name was Debbie and she had her own chocolate chip cookies she sold called Debbie's chocolate chip cookies.....anyway I lOVE that place!!!!

. http://www.tastee-freez.com/index.php . . http://www.manta.com/c/mmytty3/tastee-freez . . http://www.zagat.com/r/tastee-freeze-san-diego . . http://www.mrfrosties.com/ .

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nostalgic April 11, 2011 @ 6:11 p.m.

Right on all counts. I called and asked, but I'm still not sure it is right: Mr. Frostie's Tastee Freeze (or is it Tasty Freeze?) Yes, I remember the chocolate chip cookies! The full dinner menu was a sandwich, a drink, and a cookie, for a fixed price. 1470 Garnet. 858-274-9977. Dear Inglorious, you will feel much better if you have a raspberry shake.

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SurfPuppy619 April 11, 2011 @ 11:13 p.m.

They used to have, and probaly still do, this ice cream & cake type sunday that was just the bomb, it was more expensive than the other ice cream products but man was it TASTY!!!! Back in the laet 80's/early 90's it was $2.25, probably $4.00 today...but it was awesome....I swear, I LOVE that place....

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959FelsparStreet92109 April 12, 2011 @ 7:45 a.m.

You're busted: the links you posted do not in any way prove your point.

Link #1) shows addresses for many stores but it does not show an address for Tastee Freez in PB. Which means Tastee-Freez does not exist in PB.

Link #2) is the wrong store. Link #2 is a link to Mr. Frosties on Garnet Avenue. Garnet at Haines Street across from the old Kragen Automotive. Kragen is now called O'Reilly's Automotive. Mr. Frosties and Tastee-Freez are two totally seperate businesses.

Nice try but your links are worthless.

1)http://www.tastee-freez.com/index.php 2)http://www.mrfrosties.com/

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SurfPuppy619 April 12, 2011 @ 1:05 p.m.

You're busted: the links you posted do not in any way prove your point.

Link #1) shows addresses for many stores but it does not show an address for Tastee Freez in PB. Which means Tastee-Freez does not exist in PB.

====================

LOL...time for a major smack down;

**Tastee Freez, Debbie Conca, Tastee-Freez**

**1470 Garnet Avenue** San Diego, CA 92109-3014 http://www.manta.com/cmap/mmytty3/tastee-freez

Kragen auto parts-can you read a map??? I think NOT! here you go buddy;

Kragen-O'Reilly Auto Parts, Kragen-O'Reilly Auto Parts

1501 East Garnet Avenue San Diego, CA 92109 (858) 273-6030

I smacked you so hard you are now in next week.

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Laurin April 12, 2011 @ 8:52 a.m.

Mr. Frosties is a family owned Malt Shop/Deli that has lived in the same location in the heart of Pacific Beach since 1949. http://www.where2eat.com/Directory/mr-frostie-59917.html

http://www.mrfrosties.com/index.html

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SurfPuppy619 April 12, 2011 @ 1:13 p.m.

I agree 100%, the question is has Mr. Frosties ever been known as tastee Freeze??? According to Zagat it has been and is known as "Tastee Freeze";

TASTEE FREEZE 1470 Garnet Ave San Diego 92109

858-274-9977 . http://www.zagat.com/r/tastee-freeze-san-diego .

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Laurin April 12, 2011 @ 3:23 p.m.

Come on Johnny. You have to do more than just google something. Ya can't believe everything ya read on the internet, dude. For example, if you were to call or actually go there you would find out that the shop has been open since 1949, which is before Tastee Freeze even existed, that Debbie has owned the shop for over 30 yrs, that her husband John helps run it and before that John's family had owned it since the 60's. Don't take my word for it, give them a call and see for yourself. BTW, I went to PB middle school in the 80s and used go there on the way home from school on Friday's . If you want something good, you should stop by and get a lime shake and and egg salad sami. Sounds like a weird combo, but trust me, it's the best.

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nostalgic April 12, 2011 @ 6:16 p.m.

I still can't believe that people who are all about PB don't even know it's THERE! And I don't even live there.

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SurfPuppy619 April 12, 2011 @ 8:12 p.m.

BTW, I went to PB middle school in the 80s

So you know former PE Teacher Robert Schry!!!!!

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SurfPuppy619 April 12, 2011 @ 8:07 p.m.

Come on dork, you know that the licensed and registered business name is "TASTEE FREEZE", and that is and was the name since 1949, and that Debbie and her family bought it in 1978 and KEPT THE NAME TASTEE FREEZE. If you were to call or go in person you too could find out this simple information!

Why do I have to spank you so bad in public???? Don't take my word for it, go call Debbue yourself!

. http://www.zagat.com/r/tastee-freeze-san-diego .

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WhatsNewPussycat April 12, 2011 @ 9:16 p.m.

Nostalgic was the one who got the name of the store wrong. As Nostalgic stated in the thread starter.

And then ILoveSanDiego was the first one to come along and provide us with the stores CORRECT name:

Mr. Frosties

Everyone else came along and blew smoke. They wasted their time. And that includes you.

End of story.

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SurfPuppy619 April 14, 2011 @ 12:49 p.m.

Tastee Freeze is the legal name. That aint blowing smoke Tom, now get back on stage because your moves wont work on me !

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PacificBeachSeniorCitizen April 10, 2011 @ 6:18 p.m.

FACTFEST:

1) PB does not have a serious crime problem

2) There's relatively zero gang activity in PB

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Founder April 11, 2011 @ 7:55 a.m.

Boloney! Crime also includes DUI's, violent Crime and many others that are listed on the SDPD website for all to check on! RE: Gangs, I think the Bar/Club owners have already "ganged up" on PB...

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Gina Larson April 11, 2011 @ 1:33 p.m.

In the ten plus years I've lived in PB I have been the victim of a crime on several occasions. Stuff like vandalism. I don't even think twice about the crimes that were committed. For 20 reasons. I'll give ya a couple:

they were small misdemeanor crimes, not like I was assaulted or anything lol

San Diego is GREAT, PB is great, my health is GREAT, life is GREAT, so in a nutshell why sweat the small stuff????????????

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pbSpiritsdotcom April 11, 2011 @ 9:48 a.m.

To "PacificBeachSeniorCitizen" (yeah right)... your three comments do not offer any evidence or facts to make your conclusions. What don't you believe when the police say PB's core tract (79.01) has over 1900% the citywide average by census tract of alcohol-related crime? What gangs are you referring to... you seem to be the only one discussing this issue?

And to those talking about the parking issues funny you're seeding comments about the negative parking situation in PB. The highly paid (by the city) consultant told us that our parking issues are, among other things - caused by employees of the local businesses and that the average person parked for 2 hours 20 minutes. Hardly over the 2 hour limit yet we attract the second highest number of parking tickets in the city? And you're willing to consider a multi-million dollar 'solution' (the last proposal let people park all day long and their card keeps getting hit... just how does that increase turnover one might ask) that one day will generate income for PB to clean up after the bars?

We don't need parking meters to clean up the business district. We need the existing well funded business 'improvement' district to clean up PB with the funds at their disposal... or find creative ways to develop that income (read: are there any innovators at or in contact with DiscoverPB?).

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pbSpiritsdotcom April 11, 2011 @ 9:53 a.m.

The party isn't over in PB - we just need to hold the hosts responsible and to have a mechanism to discipline those hosts that abuse their right to do business in our community.

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PB92109 April 11, 2011 @ 5:33 p.m.

PB has gotten denser with infilling; the traffic gets worse each year. Roads are narrowed to "calm" the traffic, more stop signs are put in, lanes eliminated, etc. It is not a desirable area to drive in for shopping and for most coming to go to the beach is a pain in the butt, too. Lack of parking, meter maids ticketing, etc.

It's always been busy, hard to park at certain times but lovely in December and January when people leave town and the you can walk down the middle of Garnet at 9 pm around Christmas time and not be hit by a car, because there are virtually none on the road.

The binge drinkers ruined the beach and shut it down and ditto for Kate Sessions Park. So where else can locals get together and socialize: either at their homes they share with roommates- who might not like the idea- or at a bar.

With 50% of the population 31 years of age or under do you expect there to be notions stores, yarn shops, tuxedo shops on Garnet? The landlords jack up the rent to get as much as they can. Tattoo establishments, for example, have adequate earnings psf with a low initial capital investment, so the owner can afford the rent. Bars require a big investment but also have a big earnings potential, so their owners can afford the rent, too.

With high rents and a young population there is little likelihood that the business mix will change-- it is the invisible hand of supply and demand, pure unfettered capitalism in action, just what all you Faulconer- loving Republicans purportedly support.

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BlueSouthPark April 11, 2011 @ 7:26 p.m.

Thank you for saying everything that needed saying... I think I love you. I DO love you!

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PBLiving April 15, 2011 @ 3:40 p.m.

Actually, the City of San Diego has more registered Dems than Republicans, and the County R's in the last election cycle just regained their voter registration edge over D's, with a large and increasing number of Declined to State voters. So, the city of SD hasn't been a Republican stronghold for a long time, and the county is very mixed. Coastal areas are far more Dem, east and north more Repub.

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pershing26 Dec. 14, 2013 @ 8:50 p.m.

I grew up in PB in the 50's & 60's. It was an awesome, magical place to be. Kids all over the place to play with...canyons galore....chicken farm....bowling alley(s) ....miniture golf....Roxy Theatre (now torn down for Post Office on Cass)...Drive In....on & on.....not to mention the beach. We never really needed to leave PB to go shopping anywhere else as we had all the shops & stores all up & down Garnet......from Mission Blvd on up to say Lamont....everything from A to Z was available to the residents of PB.....AND, there were just a handful of Bars in PB.....everything seemed to be in balance. And being an old timer PB'er it not only breaks my heart to see how it is today but for all us "slightly older peeps" who still live in PB or still in San Diego to see from what PB was to what PB is today. At least two things in PB are still the same....Crystal Pier & the wonderful Ocean. BTW....a Mission Bay High School classmate owned the Longboard Bar.......

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