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The San Diego chapter of the Surfrider Foundation has been trying to reduce cigarette litter for over ten years, just about the time it takes for a butt to biodegrade and release its hundred plus toxins into the environment. Cigarette butts rank at the top of the list of littered items throughout the world. The Surfrider Foundation estimates that over two billion butts are flicked daily.

At 10 a.m. on Thursday, January 21, at Belmont Park in Mission Beach, Surfrider Foundation chair and director of the Hold On to Your Butt campaign, Manase Mansur, will appear alongside California Highway Patrol border division chief G.A. Dominguez, CalFire chief Howard Windsor, and San Diego city councilmember Kevin Faulconer to announce Surfriders’ latest attempt at stomping out cigarette litter.

The last attempt came back in 2004, when Surfrider partnered with the County of San Diego in starting a hotline: 1-800-NO-SMOKE. The county paid $50,000 every year for three years to fund the program, which, according to Mansur, was a labor-intensive and expensive program. "It was really targeted against smoking in general," says Mansur. "We're not against smoking and we are not against smokers. So that didn't fit with what we were trying to do."

Mansur says Surfrider has hashed out the issues and he believes that the Hold On to Your Butt campaign will be a much more successful program. This time around, motorists who see a person flick their cig out of the window can dial a national toll-free number: 1-877-211-BUTT (2888). The caller will leave the perpetrator's car make, color, location, and tag number. The information will then get sent to the California Highway Patrol, which will issue a warning letter.

San Diego's Surfrider chapter will pay for the program, which Mansur expects to be about $25,000 per year. A small price to pay, says Mansur, considering the campaign is being waged in San Diego, Orange, Imperial, and Riverside counties, all areas that are prone to wildfires.

In addition to the hotline, since 2006 Surfrider has worked with community organizations such as the O.B., P.B., and Mission Beach town councils, installing “ashcans” throughout those beach communities.

Mansur has high hopes for the program to spread much like the wildfires he hopes to prevent: "We're doing this as a model that will be adopted across the country."

For more on the Hold On to Your Butt campaign visit surfridersd.org.

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Comments

PistolPete Jan. 20, 2010 @ 11:50 a.m.

I smell a s***load of of lawsuits as a result of false filings. When will this county learn?

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Ken_D Jan. 20, 2010 @ 4:49 p.m.

Why would there be any lawsuits? No one is getting a ticket or being charged with anything. They're just getting a letter that warns them of the dangers and problems with cigarette butt litter and (hopefully) gets the people to think and no litter with cigarette butts in the future. When will litterbugs learn?

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PistolPete Jan. 20, 2010 @ 5:34 p.m.

And how many warning letters will they be sending out? If nobody is being prosecuted, why waste the money? And the most important question yet...WHO GIVES A F***?

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SDaniels Jan. 20, 2010 @ 9:16 p.m.

Yes, and a waste of paper, too. Is this the best way to do it?

And, even more importantly, are Faulconer and Co. next going to issue warning letters via peeping toms to people using toxic cleaners in the home? For sitting around the kitchen table eating environmentally disastrous red meat?

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PistolPete Jan. 20, 2010 @ 9:55 p.m.

My thoughts exactly. 50,000 things wrong with the county of Sandy Eggo and they concentrate on the one issue that doesn't matter. I know I've posted it before but to all the n))bs that haven't seen it, this is the gospel according to George and not only is it absolutely f***ing hilarious, it's the goddamned truth too ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjmtSk...

This guy is my HERO!!!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCUOKo...

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SDaniels Jan. 20, 2010 @ 10:59 p.m.

Uh, I would find a new hero, and I would also want to consider that Carlin was just a teensy ironic in this routine, just as Edward Abbey used the injunction to strew the pristine desert with one's empties.

There ARE things we can do everyday to make some significant changes in our local environment's levels of pollutions. Love your land, don't be lazy and s*** on it, right, Pete? On other topics, that seems to be your stance, so maybe you'll agree with these suggestions--at least one of which you've seen before:

  1. There is no reason to smoke highly pollutive cigarettes. Several brands are processed without toxic additives, and they taste better, too.

  2. Instead of littering, one can find cool little portable ashtrays for $1 to $5 at nearly any smoke shop.

  3. RE: Toxic chemicals? Industrial-sized water pollution isn't just for evil corporations anymore. We buy craploads of toxic chemicals to clean our homes with, and while the labels read "Dewdrops on Mountain Lavender" and "Baby Duck's Ass Soft Pine Needle Scented," these products contain highly polluting industrial-strength detergents and surfactants that are killing marine wildlife, polluting the oceans, and polluting the soil, too.

If we replace dish soap, dishwasher detergent, laundry soap, and all household products with environmentally sound ones, we can cut down on the pollution of the elements in our area. My cat's nose and lungs aren't even bothered by the scent of my Mrs. Meyers and Seventh Generation products, made with fruit and plant oils and essences. These products WORK, and aren't that much more expensive in some cases (Costco even carries some safe product now) so there is really no excuse not to use them.

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xians421 Jan. 20, 2010 @ 11:58 p.m.

Instead of a mailed warning, why not just catch up to the litterer and shoot them in the face?!? Last time I checked, all vehicles come equipped with an ASHTRAY, use it! Every smoker that tosses lit butts out their windows is committing attempted arson and should be treated as such. Just imagine if cigarettes didn't exist. How many fewer tons of co2 would be released into the atmosphere every day? How many fewer lung cancer and heart disease cases would be not burdening our healthcare system?

Rant machine: off.

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PistolPete Jan. 21, 2010 @ 1:24 a.m.

ROTFLMMFAO @ the both of you. Especially xians421. First off, not all cars have ashtrays. Second, let's get together for a gentleman's bet. I bet that I can outlive you in 60+ years of smoking and you can't live past the 5 minutes of sucking on your tailpipe. :-D Want to try that bet? I'll even let you turn your car off for 45 minutes so your lips don't melt to your tailpipe. :-D Who says I'm not a nice guy?

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SDaniels Jan. 21, 2010 @ 4:36 a.m.

What have I said in #6 that you don't agree with, Pete? Btw, I swear your writing is getting a lot tighter, more vivid and confident--#8 is really well done, with my deepest apologies to our friend Xian. Now, if you would just use your developing powers for good, Pete.

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bajadog Jan. 21, 2010 @ 5:41 a.m.

Just raise the tobacco tax again, then pay a "CRV" on cigarette butts.

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PistolPete Jan. 21, 2010 @ 10:13 a.m.

C'mon SD...Going "green" just means spending more green. GULLIBLE! is what these enviro companies think everytime we buy their products. "The planet is dying!" is the new "The sky is falling" and we're all a bunch of Chicken Littles.

Hey bajadog? How many bad habits do you have that the Imperial Empire is taxing? Maybe we should levy more burrito taxes...or surfing taxes...or how about a tax everytime some retard says, "BRO!".....or a lifted truck tax.....or a black socks tax...see my point about a slippery slope?

Ya'll might laugh at me but our government, Democrat or Republican WILL find ANY reason to tax you and retarded American lapdogs will eat those new taxes up.

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xians421 Jan. 21, 2010 @ 12:39 p.m.

Pete, is there any subject at all which your solution does not involve an endless flailing of the Fiscal Libertarian party line? Do you posses any independent thoughts whatsoever? 'cuz I've never seen one. Just keep on smoking INSIDE your tiny orange-walled trailer.

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ihatethechargers Jan. 21, 2010 @ 12:44 p.m.

I SMOKE WHERE AND WHEN I WANT AND WILL TOSS MY BUTTS WHEVER I PLEASE. QUIT TRYING TO MANAGE THE WORD U A HOLES. HECK WITH ALL THE RAIN THEY ARE SAFELY MAKING THEIR WAY OUT TO SEA ALONG WITH TONS OF OTHER GARBAGE THAT IS WAY WORSE!!!!!!!!!! SO PUCK OFF!!!!!!!!!

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Duhbya Jan. 21, 2010 @ 1:07 p.m.

RE #13: Pete, I'm thinking you're persona non grata in Chicago? Am I close? Running low on chillpills? COME ON, MAN!!

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PistolPete Jan. 21, 2010 @ 1:27 p.m.

xians421-I'm a true Independent. I advocate EVERYTHING that doesn't hurt someone else. If I flick my cigarette butt out of my window and nothing happens, no harm, no foul, right? If I flick my cigarette butt out the window and start a fire, I should be held to the highest standards of the law.

Duhbya-Not really sure where you're going with your line of thought. I can go back to Chicago anytime I want. 2 reasons why I don't. 1-My GF is here and as much as it pains me to say it, I do love her even though she's playing a game. 2-There's been a Nazi Socialist in power in Chicago for more than 20 years. His name is Richard M. Daley and he is the worst kind of Democrat to have in power.

I "live" in Chicago. I exist in Sandy Eggo. I have two identities. I use my birth name to vote and reside in Sandy Eggo. I use a dead man's identity to pay as low a tax as I can. A friend of mine works and uses that same identity. I'm worth about $65,000 tax-free and clear. I conduct my business on Wall Street on a different computer that has an ISP based out of Chicago. For all intents and purposes, I'm two people living two different lives worlds apart. I have learned how to f over Uncle Sam so he doesn't f me over first. I learned how to do it all while incarcerated in Wisconsin's correctional institutions. I've gone from Armed Robbery(blue-collar, stupid and traceable) to Tax Fraud and Identity Theft(white-collar, smart and untraceable). If I was ever investigated by the FBI, I'm UNTOUCHABLE! After all, it's hard to prove in a court of law what they can't catch. :-D

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SDaniels Jan. 22, 2010 @ 8:16 a.m.

re: #12: Pete, in the Real World (TM), you may play an Independent, but in reality, you are not original. Think about it--on the subject of politics, you are full of sound bytes and fury signifying--hackneyed rehashed quotations and lazy aphoristic conclusions. Therefore, I have to say Xian, very well put ;)

And why here's an example right here:

"Going "green" just means spending more green."

Didja cop that one off Rush? Oh wait--it's ALL over the place. And not a drop of science or substance behind it. But there sure is a lot of uniquely American attitude of entitlement behind it--nothing new at all, and an attitude much conned and coaxed by all parties and ideologies.

The fact is, I do not pay much more for the products I described, with the exception of 7th Generation. It is possible to make some necessary changes that reduce pounds of pollution without a lot of inconvenience to the put-upon lazy American consciousness.

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PistolPete Jan. 22, 2010 @ 10:58 a.m.

Let's break down the definition of the word according to Merriam-Webster...

Here's the link so you can follow along: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/INDEPENDENT

As an adjective- 1.-not dependent as(ME) A1-not subject to control by others(ME) A2-not affliated to a larger controlling unit(ME) B1-not requiring or relying on something else:not contingent(ME) B2-not looking to others for one's opinions or for guidance in conduct(ME) B3-not bound by or committed to a political party(ME) C1-not requiring or relying on others(ME) C2-being enough to free one from the necessity of working for a living(NOT ME but could be ME) D-showing a desire for freedom(ME)

I feel like I'm warming up for the opera...

As for Green Cleaning supplies: http://www.walgreens.com/store/catalog/Cleaners/what-EVER!-All-Purpose-Cleaner-/ID=prod5581639&navCount=7&navAction=push-product

That should be a link to a product called what-EVER!. This is their multi-purpose cleaner. It is a 32oz bottle that you can buy at Walgreens online for $5.99

http://www.walgreens.com/store/catalog/Cleaners/Oxy-Power-Multi-Purpose-Cleaner/ID=prod395939&navCount=9&navAction=push-product

That should be a link to a product called Fantastix. This is their multi-purpose cleaner. It is a 26oz bottle that you can buy at Walgreens online for $4.49

Let's do the math... What-EVER! Price per ounce: 19 cents Fantastik Price per ounce: 17 cents

Here's ANOTHER way the enviro Nazis get you-ALLERGIES!

http://www.walgreens.com/store/catalog/Cleaners/what-EVER!-All-Purpose-Cleaner-/ID=prod5581639&navCount=11&navAction=push-product

That should be a link to What-EVER!'s sister multi-purpose cleaner but scent free. You can buy it at Wagreens online for $6.99 instead of $5.99 The only difference? No harsh smell.

What-EVER! Perfume Free Price per ounce: 22 cents For just 3 more cents per ounce, you can have a smell free environmentally clean house.

Tell me again how going green is cheaper than not going green.

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PistolPete Jan. 22, 2010 @ 11:03 a.m.

Correction:Looks like I missed the fact that BOTH What-EVER! and What-EVER! Perfume Free were originally $6.99.

Let's correct that so it makes SD look like an even bigger retard...

What-EVER! PPO-22 cents Fantastik PPO-17 cents

Maybe my math is wrong here SD, but I DO believe that going green makes you spend more green. I expect an apology by midnight. :-D

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SDaniels Jan. 22, 2010 @ 11:57 p.m.

Let's get this straight, Pete. You looked up ONE product of dubious origins, and that makes me a tard? What-EVER! Is this somehow related to your practice of forming an opinion ONCE?

There are plenty of affordable products out there. For the idiot who has to have 700 ounces of product at once, go to Costco and buy their dish soap in the giant bottle for $7.99. It'll last till the kids are over puberty and out of the house!

If you don't want to spend any money at all, here's what you do. Takes minutes, and stuff you have around the house to make your own effective cleaners. I've used newspaper and vinegar for years in place of Windex, which, like all Johnson & Johnson products (a "family" company--oh, so we are milking the 'family values,' along with the innocence of the general public as to the complete disregard this company has for organic life on this planet?), is murderous pollution:

http://www.divinecaroline.com/22156/23878-cheap--clean--green/2

However, I like the scent of Mrs. Meyers products--more expensive? Yeah, but they last forever, and actually help you to feel like cleaning, so you can smell the essential oils of basil, geranium, verbena. That makes them worth it. Besides, they work better than cheap industrial crap.

Apology by midnight? Ha, Pete. You've got to do better than that, but it's safe to say you will not refute my logic on this one. If you have a social conscience, you'll weigh the consequences, and then you'll either spend a few more pennies, or make your own products.

Unless you are a typical conspiracy theorist, and think any and every conclusion about the environment (like the prez's birth, or 9/11, or UFOs, etc. etc.) is a big governmental plot to rob your wallet.

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SDaniels Jan. 23, 2010 @ 12:04 a.m.

PS: re: #15: Are you planning on stealing anyone's identity here, Pete?

And before you reply in tedious, predictable fashion to the 'green' argument, consider that your original statement was:

"Going "green" JUST means spending more green."

to which I replied:

"The fact is, I do not pay MUCH MORE for the products I described, with the exception of 7th Generation. It is possible to make some necessary changes that reduce pounds of pollution without a lot of inconvenience to the put-upon lazy American consciousness."

On top of that, I've added some CHEAPER ways to clean your home without polluting the enviro. So please don't come back pinching your sorry little pennies. Anyone worth 65k with no kids should be able to fork over a few cents or even dollars more for something safer and more ethical--that is, if you choose not to be a lazy armchair conspiracy-buff.

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PistolPete Jan. 23, 2010 @ 1:20 a.m.

I'm not even going to debate it anymore. You KNOW I'm right and it kills you to admit it. It's ok. I know the truth and thank God ALOT people are seeing this environmentalism for what it truly is-A SHAM!

No, SD, I won't be stealing anyone's identity. I'm a renegade hacker who is fed up with my government dipping it's greedy little hands into my wallet. I have a friend who is a better hacker than I am. He's got a database of old SS #'s from the recently deceased. It takes the government quite awhile to recycle people's SS #'s. I get a new ID every tax season. What I do is illegal and unethical but in the end, nobody gets hurt. Except Uncle Sam and I say, "F*** the old bastard!"

And for all those out there who are thinking to themselves, "What about taxes?" I pay PLENTY of taxes. I don't drive so f the roads. I don't have kids so f the schools. I don't live with you so f*** you. I've learned how to live off the grid. Don't be a hater. Don't hate the player...hate the game!

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SDaniels Jan. 23, 2010 @ 1:41 a.m.

So you only rip off dead people, then?

No wonder you think everything's a sham, flim flam Pete!

...Livin' off the grid, da da dah, da, da, dah.

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marydakin Jan. 23, 2010 @ 7:40 a.m.

As a resident of the SD Country Estates, I was and am appalled to be witness to smokers tossing butts out of their cars very soon after both the Cedar and Witch fires. I'm speaking to the irresponsible smokers when I say, "Hold on to your butts!!" Put a coffee can in your car and use it.

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PistolPete Jan. 23, 2010 @ 10:30 a.m.

Well I'll be damned maninthemirror. I'll be having a little chat with someone in Chicago later today. At any rate, dead men can't pay taxes and neither will I...

A young man married a beautiful woman who had previously divorced 10 husbands. On their wedding night, she told her new husband to "Please be gentle; I’m still a virgin".

"What?" said the puzzled groom. "How can that be if you’ve been married ten times?"

"Well, husband1 was a Sales Representative; he kept telling me how great it was going to be.

"Husband 2 was in Software Services; he was never really sure how it was supposed to function; but he said he’d look into it and get back with me.

"Husband 3 was from Field Services; he said that everything checked out diagnostically but he just couldn’t get the system up.

"Husband 4 was in Telemarketing; even though he knew he had the order, he didn’t know when he would be able to deliver.

"Husband 5 was an Engineer, he understood the basic process but he wanted three years to research, implement, and design a new state of the-art method.

"Husband 6 was from Administration; he thought he knew how but he wasn’t sure whether it was his job or not.

"Husband 7 was in Marketing; although he had a product, he was never sure how to position it.

"Husband 8 was a Psychiatrist; all he did was talk about it.

"Husband 9 was a Gynecologist; all he did was look at it.

"Husband 10 was a Stamp Collector; all he ever did was lick it. God I miss him.

" But, now that I’ve married you, I’m so excited".

"Wonderful", said the husband, "but why?”

"You’re with the "GOVERNMENT"..This time I just KNOW I’m gonna get screwed."

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PistolPete Jan. 23, 2010 @ 10:46 a.m.

Hey SD? Isn't it kind of hard to steal from a dead person? Just sayin...

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SDaniels Jan. 23, 2010 @ 1:33 p.m.

Ok, maninthemirror's explanation helps, but still, I wonder what proportion you are stealing to what you give. Only you know that, and you haven't been forthcoming with that particular calculation. When you do, I assume you will be taking more, much more, than you put in.

That makes you the biggest hypocrite on the planet. Everything you have ever said about how we are getting screwed by the government?

I'll just wait to hear what you say before I continue.

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PistolPete Jan. 23, 2010 @ 10:17 p.m.

Ok. Before I tell this to you all, I learned Hacking 101 via mail with a computer hacker who left state prison for federal prison shortly after my arrival. I sent my correspondence to him through the outside and him vice-versa. Legal loophole not too many prisoners are bright enough to figure out. EVERYTHING was coded. I've kept those codes and have recieved uncoded messages as well now that we're both free as birds. I'm not going to sit here and lie to you guys and tell you that I've played war games or intercepted the president's secret e-mails. In cyberspace I'm considered a blackguppie. I refuse to hack into anything will potentially harm this country or any of it's citizens. I'm at war with Uncle Sam only. It's a cat & mouse game that they will never win unless I f*** up and leave evidence. Remember, I've had 4 years to train. 4 years to think. 4 years to plan. 4 years to execute. Even if the computer that I type this out on is being watched, it doesn't matter. I don't use this computer. No evidence, no crime. That's the law. I've used the very laws that want to put me away to further my cause.

Anyway, here's how it works-This hacker friend of mine knows about 1000x more things than I do. I'm a guppie in a sea of sharks. That's ok. I'm not planning to take over the world ala Unabomber. I have no manifesto. I'm just a pissed off taxpayer. He finds dead people's SS#s and sells them to the highest bidder. I don't agree with his politics but that's besides the point. I don't care about his business and he doesn't care about mine. Every tax season, I change ID. He finds them for me. Instead of paying him what he wants, we agree that he takes on a particular ID that we "share". He's got a full-time job. Been there since his release from prison in 2002. He hooks his boss up so he doesn't care. This ID becomes two people:Him and I. I'm here in Cali, he's in Chicago. He opens a bank account with this ID. Once this ID is established, I send him a picture and he makes two Illinois State IDs. One for him. One for me. I use my ID for my Wall Street transactions. He uses his for work. Taxes are taken out because Uncle Sam is clueless. When W-2s are handed out, he figures out how much in tax has been deducted and I give him 3/4s. If it's $2,000 a year taken out, I owe him $1,500. The reason I don't give him the full amount is because I hook him up with free cable and utilities through other mutual friends. In the meantime, this bank account is hooked up to a Wal-Mart debit card account. Two Wal-Mart Debit/Credit cards. Both in the same name. One to him. One to me. Perfectly legal because they're student cards. I could use my card here in Sandy Eggo at the exact same minute he uses his in Chicago and no red flags pop up.

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PistolPete Jan. 23, 2010 @ 10:17 p.m.

Uncle Sam gets his tax money from every paycheck that my friend gets and gets sales tax everytime we purchase something. However, the business I conduct on Wall Street far exceeds what he makes or is taken out of his checks. When the tax man comes to collect every year, lo and behold! They find out that the man is dead. New name for the next year and the process starts all over again. Totally untraceable because, as the saying goes, I don't piss in my pool. All my illegal business is conducted far away from my residence. I don't even keep my fake ID with me. No evidence of any crime and I refuse to testify, CASE DISMISSED!

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SDaniels Jan. 23, 2010 @ 10:51 p.m.

Wow. Fascinating s***. Ok, so bear with me: You and buddy in C-town pay the equivalent of one citizen's taxes per year, while your 'person' or his 'person,' depending who gets to be dead that year, is dead?

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PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 12:05 a.m.

Kind of. You're right about the first part. However, we're both "dead" as far as the government is concerned. It's one dead guy's identity shared by two people. We both know how much he makes at his regular job. He has access to my money but I watch it closely. I trust him and he trusts me. We've been doing this every year since I won a $51,639.00 Powerball ticket shortly after my release from prison. I didn't want Uncle Sam to know about my business since I was still pissed at being incarcerated for 4 years for my crime. I had befriended a guy in prison who lived in Milwaukee. He was in prison for financial crimes due to trying to screw Wall Street. I learned ALOT while imprisoned. I have friends all over the world because of the contacts I made in prison. Some are serious blackhat hackers. Some are phreakers. Some are Wall Street wizards.

One of the things I learned and found so fascinating was that no matter how secure a computer is, it's vulnerabilities are right there in front of you. It's ALL about breaking(hacking) the computer language(code). There isn't a computer on the planet that can't be hacked. It's so simple it's scary. ANYONE who creates a new computer code has to reveal it. It's like knowing where the Holy Grail is and not telling a soul. It CANNOT be done.

I consider myself to be a blackguppie. A blackhat hacker is an anarchist bent on hacking every computer he or she can for pure sport. They use their smarts to hurt people and get greedy. Greed leads to jail. Everytime. That's a fact of life. I'm a script kiddie. I don't know enough to get into the Pentagon but I could find out your ISP in a few keystrokes while taking a beer s***. However, I won't do that. I hack for my own personal gain. I won't hack to settle a beef or for money. I'm learning more and more as time goes by and it's an interesting hobby. I'd also like to stay out of prison. The three laptops I use here in Cali are all based out of Chicago. In other words, I could be online on a computer here in Sandy Eggo and I've got my USB, modem and ISP set out of Chicago. The FBI can trace it if they knew the name it's registered under(they never will) but it traces back to Chicago. Theoretically, SD, I could use your PC to hack my way into Fort Knock. That's script kiddy. Easy skeezy. I don't really care to learn how to destroy companies because that's not my thing.

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PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 12:05 a.m.

I also abhor identity thieves. I don't look at what I'm doing as being an identity thief because the identity is 6 feet under. It's a gray line legally but I'm not worried. The FBI could watch me 24/7 365 a year. That can't just get a warrant to search someone's home I enter. If they find nothing, they're f***ed like Chuck. I know it and they know it. The people who get busted are the retards who carry around fake IDs. I don't. Legally, no merchant can ask me for ID when I hand over my Visa debit card from Wal-mart. If they refuse the sale based on no ID, I can have Visa investigate and possibly pull that card from that merchant. The merchant risks going out of business everytime ID is asked.

Learning is fun. Learning how to use the system against itself is priceless. For everything else, there's Mastercard. ;-D

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PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 12:25 a.m.

For those that don't believe me... http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/card_acceptance_guide.pdf

Page 31. Bottom of page where it states:Requesting Cardholder ID.

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Fred Williams Jan. 24, 2010 @ 1:32 a.m.

Pete, my boy, I think you're full of it.

You say that when code is written, it's instantly revealed...and that's just plain wrong, my friend. The source code is compiled into an executable that the machine actually runs.

That's the reason the "open source" movement came about, to allow others access to the orignial code so improvements can be made. Once it's been compiled into an executable, you cannot just look inside.

If you get something this basic wrong, it casts doubt on the rest of your braggadocio.

Buddy, I've been working in IT/Telco for almost twenty years now. Some things can be done, but it's not as easy as you describe, and it's a constantly evolving world of measures and counter-measures. What worked last week may not work this week, and it takes a LOT of time and effort to do it without being detected.

But if you are so good as you brag, please feel free to correct me publicly...in this thread, I give you permission to post both my IP address and the physical address where I have written this comment.

This can be done. I know how to do it. I'm absolutely positive you don't.

Prove me wrong.

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PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:07 a.m.

LULZ! First off, I'm not posting anyone's ISP online. I don't think it's illegal to do so but why cause problems for someone? Your ISP is your computer's SS #. I'm also not going to prove anything to anyone. SD asked and I revealed the basics. What I do and how I do it is so simple a monkey could do it if the monkey knows where to go and what to do. Were you to create a new computer code or program, I could eventually hack it given that it's a secure code. One thing I've noticed over the years is that hacking computers is child's play if you know where to go what to type.

For example, we are led to believe that most bank databases are impenetrable. However, if you're a good enough hacker with patience and determination, you will break the database. The Reader database is probably child's play seeing as there's no real financial information. As for identity, that can be taken care of by tracking down the ISP and investigating from there. No need to crack the database to gain, like I said, what's in front of you.

I think most people that are unfamiliar with computers tend to get a bit intimidated and gun shy. Java, C++ and binary code are alot like calculus but once you learn the basics, easy skeezy. ;-D

Source code CAN be a bit intimidating at times but again, the more you learn, the easier it gets. Like I said Fred, I'm not going to risk 5 years of thumbing my nose at Uncle Sam to prove how stupid I am.

Believe me. Don't believe me. I don't give a f***. There's really not much I know how to hack'n'crack anyway. I know basics because it's only what I need to get by on. The rest of the stuff I've learned is stored for future problems that may arise.

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SDaniels Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:14 a.m.

34: I look forward to seeing this happen. My bet's on Pete this time.

31: Pete wrote:

"Taxes are taken out because Uncle Sam is clueless. When W-2s are handed out, he figures out how much in tax has been deducted and I give him 3/4s."

Ok. You two share a dead person's ID. Yet-- Chi-town buddy works, and he pays taxes on his job. You say Uncle Sam takes taxes out of your "dead" buddy's check, and then you pay buddy's taxes instead of paying up front for sharing the identity.

--But what about when he processes the forms, and pays his taxes? No one EVER notices a dead man paying his taxes? What is are the odds this happens, and what happens when it eventually does? (I mean, what happens to your buddy, because you are clearly removed enough from the situation to possibly get out of it, as long as there is no paper trail between you and buddy, right?)

0

Fred Williams Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:26 a.m.

No Pete. You're just plain wrong, hysterically wrong, in your description of how computers work.

I've been in IT/Telco for twenty years. You're full of it. Even your terminology is way off.

The fact of the matter is that if you know what you're talking about, you ought to be able to get my IP. And this information is already public, by the way.

Again, prove me wrong. You can post my IP address, it does me no harm whatsoever. The Reader CMS admin already has it (and yours too). Do you even know how IP works?

SDaniels...stick to something you know. If you want to talk literary theory, fine. But you are absolutely in NO position to have an opinion on IT.

0

Fred Williams Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:30 a.m.

One more thing Pete...since you confuse "ISP" with "IP", here's a hint.

ISP is Internet Service Provider. This is a company that sells bandwidth to end users, like you.

IP is Internet Protocol. It's how packets of information are routed. The header includes things like the originator and destination of the packet of data. My IP address is simply the unique number used with sending and receiving information to and from my computer.

Now, do some basic research on computers before you call yourself a hacker. Okay?

0

PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:32 a.m.

I pay his taxes back that are taken out of his check because he has the know how to get the ID in the first place. The taxes are taken automatically because it's a job. Neither one of us can stop that from happening. In fairness though, he does take the maximum deductions allowed by law. All depends on if the dead guy was or was not married and how many kids he had. Maybe the guy was 45 with a wife and 5 kids under 18. Who knows? Who cares? If it wasn't for him getting the ID, I wouldn't be able to get my money made on Wall Street free and clear.

Since 2004, I've made and lost over $1,000,000 in stock and bond trades. On Wall Street it's easy come-easy go. I've made about $15,000 more than my original investment of $45,000.00 Almost two years ago when oil was skyrocketing through the roof, I was working for Shell making $8.75 an hour under my legal name. At that very same time, I was making thousands of dollars in the oil trade. $150.00 a barrel was SWEET! I could've taken the money and ran but I didn't go into it to make a s***load and get out. I was teaching myself how things in the real world worked. My buddy in Milwaukee tells me what to buy, sell and trade. If I make a few thousand, I send him a few hundred. One of the reasons I'm looking for work is because I know the economy will eventually recover. When that happens, I'll be selling my stocks for ALOT less than I bought them for. Goodbye Powerball cash.

Basically, I had the opportunity to do two things:play stockbroker and see if I could use what was taught me to see the world for what it really is. It's been a fun ride but like I said, that Powerball money was my retirement fund. I lose that and I may be fed. Nothing lasts forever and eventually I'll get greedy and get caught. Then what? 40 years old in a prison cell because I wanted to play bigshot for awhile? F THAT!

As for the second part of your reply, he, as do I, never pay the taxes. That's the whole point of risking prison time. He gets paid everything that he makes. If he makes $12.00 an hour, that's what he gets. Well, 3/4s of it anyway. I get to keep whatever I've made on Wall Street. The thing is, like I said, he gets taxes taken out regardless. Uncle Sam gets to keep it. Whatever money both of us spend is taxed. Maybe not by Uncle Sam directly but his younger and more retarded brother, Vinnie. Vinnie is two people as well-County and city.

0

PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:40 a.m.

Sorry Fred. I get ISP(Internet Service Provider) and IPS(Internet Protocol Suite) mixed up constantly. IP is just a shortened version of IP. It probably got shortened because ISP and IPS are similar. One reason I could never be military was because they alphabetize everything too.

0

SDaniels Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:42 a.m.

re: #37: "SDaniels...stick to something you know. If you want to talk literary theory, fine. But you are absolutely in NO position to have an opinion on IT."

Uh, Fred, when did I say I knew anything about IT--ever, and what opinion about IT did I express that leads you to exhort me in this indelicate fashion?

Hmm? (That is, if you have time to respond amidst this raging battle of the braggarts).

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Fred Williams Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:49 a.m.

Again, Pete, you are obviously full of it. You don't know what you're talking about. You're conflating C, Java, and binary?

WTF?

No, SDaniels, this isn't about bragging. This is about someone claiming knowledge that he clearly doesn't have.

It's offensive. It's hard work, takes time and effort, to actually learn how software and networks operate in the real world. When I see a poser claiming to be a hacker, I have earned the right to call him on it.

Pete, you're not even a "script kid". You're just digging yourself deeper with every post.

Again...if you can actually do what you claim, go right ahead. What IP address am I using when I'm posting these comments?

You don't know. You cannot find out. You're a poser, and it's pathetic.

Stick to what you know.

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PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:50 a.m.

Funny. When I Google my real name, I get a hit for Reader articles. When I Google Fred Williams, I get none. O_o I DO see a s***load of hits for a famous Australian landscape painter... He's a dead guy as well. Eerie. :-D

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SDaniels Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:53 a.m.

re: #42:

Perhaps, Fred, but that has nothing to do with me. Again, if you don't mind, since you are in the mood to exhort all to "stick to what you know," I'd like to find out what YOU think you know about me:

  1. Where (here or anywhere) did I express an opinion, or claim I had knowledge of IT?

  2. Why would you assume that I am "absolutely in NO position to have an opinion on IT?"

How could you possibly know whether or not I am, Fred?

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PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:58 a.m.

C is used in Java. As for binary code, you wouldn't have anything on the computer without it. Anyways, I've got Vegas odds to look at, a cigarette to smoke and some sleep to get. Game time is about 8 hours away. Like I said Fred, I never claimed to be Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. I've learned the basics and gone from there. You want your IP posted? Like the preacher man says, "SEND $$$$! Hallelujah!!!!" or however it's spelled.

Please make checks payable to Mike Hunt. ;-D

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Fred Williams Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:59 a.m.

SDaniels, you wrote:

"#34: I look forward to seeing this happen. My bet's on Pete this time."

Betting on Pete knowing what he's talking about proves you also know nothing about the subject. Case closed. Stick to what you know.

Pete, it's trivially easy to find lots of stuff by and about me through Google...but you have to know what you're doing.

You don't.

Yet you claim to be a hacker?

This is really pathetic. You can keep digging the hole you're in, but I'll just keep kicking dirt on top of you.

0

Fred Williams Jan. 24, 2010 @ 3 a.m.

Oh Pete, you are really showing your true colors now.

I've called you out. You're running away.

Poser. Case closed.

0

PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 3:09 a.m.

Wow Fred...that's one hell of a resume you have. You've been a busy boy. I'm impressed.

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SDaniels Jan. 24, 2010 @ 3:16 a.m.

re: #46:

"SDaniels, you wrote:

"#34: I look forward to seeing this happen. My bet's on Pete this time."

Betting on Pete knowing what he's talking about proves you also know nothing about the subject. Case closed. Stick to what you know."

Fred, you seem to understand that I have a background in literary theory. That is true, and I also have a background in textual analysis, to be specific. Therefore, I am overqualified in all respects when I say that you completely misread the thrust and intent of my words. I'll take you through it quickly, since it involves my rep as a truth-teller here, and I know well enough that you are sensitive about your own. Bear with me:

Bets are exciting. I was "looking forward to" seeing Pete make it "happen;" in other words, I was eager to see him produce the information you challenged him to produce.

"My bet's on Pete this time." Did you perhaps read into this that I was undervaluing your IT authority, Fred? Nah, you hadn't said much at that point in the discussion. I was simply trying to offer my frenemy some encouragement to go ahead and produce the goods.

Nowhere did I claim to have knowledge I do not possess. I was merely a bystander, an innocent spectator, brutally injured when you accelerated and crashed the stands, mad to get at Pete.

So, there was no need to accuse me of anything.

Stick with what you know, Fred--unless lashing out is your bag.

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Fred Williams Jan. 24, 2010 @ 3:18 a.m.

Which one did you find? Zoominfo, or Linkedin?

Did you see the wikiversity stuff too?

I have been busy. I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to certain subjects, like technology and politics.

I also sing, write songs, paint and draw, and shot a bow and arrow with considerable accuracy.

As Ali said, "It ain't bragging in you can do it."

best,

Fred

(So, gonna say "uncle" Pete?)

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Fred Williams Jan. 24, 2010 @ 3:24 a.m.

SDaniels, you bet on the wrong guy. I only told you to stick with what you know...textual analysis and literature.

If that's somehow brutal, well, you need to get a thicker skin.

Again, it IS offensive to see someone claiming technical knowledge when he's clearly full of shiate. This stuff cannot be faked, and he was trying...

To then see you egging him on (subtext, "Yeah, show that Fred that he doesn't know anything...I'm tired of his bragging when YOU Pete are clearly more knowledgeable) irritated me.

My apologies if you felt "brutalized" by key strokes, but maybe you should stay out of squabbles where you don't have any business joining in?

0

PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 3:37 a.m.

Look Fred, I don't doubt that you know what you're talking about. You could probably hack me underneath the table. I mostly stay away from hacking but when I need to get out of the house for a few hours, I go visit my stocks and bonds and learn a little bit more. What I do is HIGHLY illegal. Therefore, it's nowhere near my residence. I'm not going to walk a mile and a half at 3:30 in the morning to prove anything to you. Like I said, I'm a guppie in a sharks's world. 75% of what I know, I know from someone writing down what to do. I know basics. That's it. You CANNOT sit here and tell me that writing computer program is hard work. It's not. I could've created a program with the time it's taken me to add to this thread. 26 hours and counting. My roommate needs to use his computer and I need some sleep.

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SDaniels Jan. 24, 2010 @ 4:14 a.m.

re: #51: Yada yada... Fred, you are so bad at this, you don't even realize when someone is writing hyperbole, just to be silly? Are you so full of yourself that you think you "brutalized" me? HYPERBOLE. C'mon, you use enough of it yourself when you write those cute little vignettes the structure of which you clearly have ripped off from my "one-acts in a comment" ;)

Good guess here, but wrong subtext: "Yeah, show that Fred that he doesn't know anything..." You were irritated for nought. I was busy trying to figure out Pete's scamming of the IRS with dead people's SS #s, and really hadn't given you a thought except as a very welcome intrusion, and a potential expert--

I know not much about this subject, either, and had actually just written SurfPuppy to see if HE wanted to join the convo to talk about the legal side of things.

That's what has irritated me, here. That you completely, arrogantly, read me THAT wrong. You should slow down a little, chill. Unless it is a debate about the environment or race and culture, I usually don't have that much at stake, and am just here to learn or chat.

Oh, and by the way? I didn't interrupt your conversation--you interrupted mine--welcome, of course--but get it straight.

Ciao. Adieu. Bonne soir.

Exeunt.

0

Fred Williams Jan. 24, 2010 @ 9:18 a.m.

SDaniels wrote:

"you clearly have ripped off from my 'one-acts in a comment'"

Huh?

Get over yourself. I've been writing stuff like that online since at least 1993...

You can see my latest one over at Bauder's blog...demanding an apology for those of you who compare the Fed, Sallie Mae, Fanny Mae, Freddy Mac, and their ilk to prostitutes.

Prostitutes are FAR more honorable and honest than those scum!

Anyway, I hope Pete wakes up soon, realizes that IF what he described is true, and he HAS been scamming with dead folk's SS#'s, then he'd better go back and delete all those comments because otherwise, he's going to find out how a little something called the "Lawful Intercept Module" works.

Best,

Fred

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CuddleFish Jan. 24, 2010 @ 10:22 a.m.

"Anyway, I hope Pete wakes up soon, realizes that IF what he described is true, and he HAS been scamming with dead folk's SS#'s, then he'd better go back and delete all those comments because otherwise, he's going to find out how a little something called the "Lawful Intercept Module" works."

Please, Fred, don't tease me!!! Your and my future children are at stake!!!

0

PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 11:24 a.m.

LULZ! Once again, Fred proves he don't know what he's talking about. Without giving away the farm, no court of law can convict me. Like I stated, NO EVIDENCE-NO CRIME!

For example, say I was investigated by the FBI and they decided to arrest me. All they'd be doing is getting themselves a lawsuit. They need evidence to make an arrest. If I go to court, I don't have to testify. A jury will not convict without a shred of evidence and no testimony.

Fred, I looked up your Lawful Intercept Module. It seems as if it has to do with tracing websites. That's all fine and dandy considering I don't use this computer for anything illegal. Like I said, they can watch what I do 24/7 365. It don't matter. Without evidence to support a charge, they've got egg on their face. I've got my s*** hidden so well, they'll never find it.

0

SurfPuppy619 Jan. 24, 2010 @ 11:41 a.m.

I have a question for Pete-

Why would you need to get a dead person's SS # from your buddy.

Why can't you just go to the Social Security Death Index and get one???

http://ssdi.rootsweb.ancestry.com/

Last, Fred, Pete, please don't hack me.

I have enough of my own problems right now without getting hacked.

0

Fred Williams Jan. 24, 2010 @ 12:04 p.m.

Pete,

You want to stay out of jail. So you owe it to yourself to dig a bit deeper.

Basically, it works this way. ALL of your electronic based communications, even including traditional telephony (when digitized as it almost always is nowadays), uses IP. This means that each and every packet of information you send and receive, whether downloading a website, uploading a file, sending/recieving email, using VOIP, IRC...just about everything, MUST have an identifying sequence at the beginning which provides the routing information. This includes both the sending and receiving IP addresses. (For the geeks out there, please forgive me for simplifying.)

The cops wanted in on this. So as a result of pressure from the Feds, every system deployed today, whether made in China, Russia, or in the USA, has a specific module that allows them to identify both individual and ranges of IP addresses for interception. The data is stored on a database that only law enforcement (and recently, the Chinese Google hackers) have access to. The ISP doesn't even know which IPs are being monitored.

So, here's the use case:

Agent Friendly notices that a certain guy is bragging about breaking the law in comments on the Reader.

He asks (or orders with one of those secret letters you've heard about) the admin to give up the IP address of the guy who writes the posts.

With this information, he uses the Lawful Intercept Module (part of the architecture of the backbone of the system) to record all the traffic associated with that IP. He can then add all the IPs that receive/send anything to this IP address.

This is all recorded in log files, useable in a court of law. Both routing headers and the actual content itself is saved. Voice streams are saved as .mp3. The only limit is on the capacity of the law enforcement databases. Again, even the owners of the network cannot know (by design) who is being monitored.

Eventually, when Agent Friendly has enough to hang you and your friends, he has you arrested. He shows these logs to a judge, proves it was you doing it, and you go to FMITA prison, where you make the acquaintance of a large man who declares you his wife.

Check it out Pete. Welcome to reality. EVERYTHING you write online is traceable. Everything you say on a phone is traceable. Encryption can help, but I doubt you have the discipline to use it. Even then, though, the routing info remains wide open...so the fact of the communication CANNOT be hidden.

If you think I'm making this up, then do a bit more research. I've documented the architecture of these systems and know what I'm talking about. It's been the subject of some controversy and protest in the tech community for years, and just last week another challenge to ATT's use of this was thrown out of court for "lack of standing" by the litigants.

It's scary stuff.

Anything you do online can be monitored. Watch out...

0

SDaniels Jan. 24, 2010 @ 1:30 p.m.

"Get over yourself. I've been writing stuff like that online since at least 1993..."

Annnddd, once more, Fred proves he has no understanding of irony, and is so uptight he can't even take a friendly poke here and there. It is sooo easy to get your goat! You should take your own advice, and get over YOURSELF!

I can understand you wanting to straighten Pete out over what he claims to know about the field you've dedicated your life to actually learning, but your reactions are over the top.

Why are your sensibilities so offended by his claims, unless you are the thin-skinned individual who needs to c-h-i-l-l? It's not like he starting using the "N" word, and began slandering whole racial groups. Now, wouldn't THAT be a more appropriate instance in which to get all worked up?

0

PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:03 p.m.

Fred, I understand where you're coming from. I understand how the law works. There's a reason why I didn't post your IP last night. For me to do that, I'd have to use THIS computer to do it. THIS computer is legal and clean. The Feds can search this computer down to the megabyte. It WON'T matter. Nothing I do that's illegal is done through this computer. For the Feds to catch me, they'd have to monitor me physically. I've been watched by the FBI before. No big deal. They follow me and eat doughnuts. They have to have specific information before they get a warrant. It's NOT going to happen. They can try to bend the law to catch me breaking it but they know as well as I do that it could backfire and they could be the ones in court.

It really is a Catch Me If You Can kind of scenario. I spent 4 years locked up talking with a few people who knew the law inside and out and I still do.

Then there's the problem that this computer is shared. It's not even mine. The law has to tread carefully where that's concerned.

I've been doin' this s too long to slip up and get caught because of a rookie mistake. The funny thing is, there are guys out there right now doing 10x worse than what I'm doing. Uncle Sam wants a complete overhaul of computer security because it knows that it's fed. The government is trying to do what it does so well when faced with the inevitable-they bitch and moan and create more useless laws. They want to monitor everyone on the planet but they don't want their security flaws exposed.

SurfPup-The SSDI is something I didn't know of. Maybe that's how illegal aliens are getting their SS#s. Even if my buddy is using this to sell dead people's SS#s, I still don't have connections in the Illinois DMV to get a fake ID. It's worth the $$$ to keep from having to fly to Illinois once a year. I'll have to ask him later tonight about it regardless. Like I said, his business is his business and my business is my business. We have a working partnership. He makes $$$. I make $$$.

0

CuddleFish Jan. 24, 2010 @ 2:13 p.m.

Yeah, but he ain't going to the slammer for using the N-word.

Well, well, well ......

Did you ever know that you're my heroooooo?

0

SDaniels Jan. 24, 2010 @ 3:19 p.m.

re: #57, onward:

Deep Thoughts from Jack Handey:

...Can a hack hack?...

...Can a hack be hacked?...

0

SDaniels Jan. 24, 2010 @ 3:26 p.m.

General Announcement:

I'm tired of arguing with Fred about nothing.

Fred, let's work for the powers of good together.

General Question:

and I have questions:

Pete, have you ever considered any of the "ins and outs, and what have yous (a la Lebowski) of what Fred is saying?

Fred:

If Feds want to catch an Al Qaeda operative who seems traceable only online, what is the likelihood that they will catch him in this way?

0

PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 4:24 p.m.

Sure I have. To answer your Al Qaeda question, only if they know what to monitor. Terrorism IS a real threat to not only the United States but the world in general. However, terrorists are the U.S. equivalent of modern day witches.

The question I have regarding all these claims of terrorism is this: How is it that 19 hijackers with boxcutters can hijack not one, but two, U.S. planes and use them for missiles to bring down two of the toughest buildings in the world but Richard Reid AKA Abdul Raheem AKA Tariq Raja can't even set off a bomb in his shoe and Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab AKA Umar Abdul Mutallab AKA Omar Farooq al-Nigeri can't even set off a bomb in his underwear? I don't get it. I've never trusted my government since Waco and Ruby Ridge. Why should I believe them now?

0

SDaniels Jan. 24, 2010 @ 4:41 p.m.

Sorry I brought up Al Queda, because this is actually more interesting!

Let's try and figure out what the likelihood might be of PETE getting caught. Fred has outlined some ways in which it is possible. How do you explain then, your lack of concern over discussing these things online, Pete?

0

PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 7:45 p.m.

The Feds would have to concoct some air tight "evidence" if they really wanted to nail me. Ain't gonna happen. It would be pretty hard to fabricate evidence without a starting point. They'd need computers with my fingerprints, ID(s) from dead guys with my photo and witnesses. This is f***ing hilarious. I'm not going anywhere.

As for my stock and bond trades, like I said, I starting trading to learn. Eventually I'll sell 'em and get my original investment back. That's all I want. If I get more, cool. If not, no loss and no big deal. Not to mention, if the Feds were to search my residence, they'd better make sure I have anything in my possession. No evidence and they'll never get another search warrant for me again. Once is lawful. Twice is harrassment.

I'm still waiting for oil to skyrocket again like I've heard. Wall Street giveth and Wall Street taketh away. Just ask the year 1929. :-D

0

PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 7:46 p.m.

Oh. I forgot to say F*** FAVRE and Manning's going to win the Super Bowl. :-D

0

SDaniels Jan. 24, 2010 @ 8:50 p.m.

re: #68: maninthemirror, good point about probable cause.

re: #68: Now, the only way we can know for sure what might happen is to find out the degree of likelihood that anyone would investigate Pete. If someone were to rat Pete out, would they bite? If they did, Pete says they would have a hell of a time finding him, much less prosecuting him. I wish we knew--

Where is that Surfpup? We need a few lawyers in here, and a disinterested party who has worked some 'special' crime task forces... ;)

0

PistolPete Jan. 24, 2010 @ 8:59 p.m.

LULZ! I'm not a hard guy to find. Trust me. Anyone can follow me around. I'm a pretty boring guy btw. Here's a tip to the G-men, I don't drive so be sure to have someone tail me that can walk fast and tell them to bring galoshes. I sometimes take the scenic route. ;-D

0

Fred Williams Jan. 25, 2010 @ 9:33 a.m.

Pete, you can kid yourself all you like, but even CNN is getting onto the story of how the infrastructure is itself riddled with these backdoors, created specifically for law enforcement:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/01/23/schneier.google.hacking/index.html

The article neglects to mention that the servers, switches, routers, gateways and other hardware manufactured by Russian and Chinese companies, in addition to the Swedish and US models, also have these backdoors. And if you knew something about networking, you'd also know that your message to your friend that you're kidding yourself is oh-so-secure can be routed through Mongolia as easily as through Montana...

On another note, I'm seriously considering stopping any more contributions like this. Teaching pigs to sing, as Robert Heinlein said, is a waste of time and it annoys the pigs.

I really do have better things to do than educate the ungrateful.

0

SDaniels Jan. 25, 2010 @ 10:48 a.m.

"I really do have better things to do than educate the ungrateful."

Hey Fred, I understand. If it irks you, stop doing it. This should be fun. If it's any consolation, I'm finding what you've written to be fascinating, and wish I had the background to be able to absorb some of what you've said about servers and security, not to mention programming ;) Pearls before semi-swine? The slovenly grateful?

0

Russ Lewis Jan. 25, 2010 @ 11:15 a.m.

Pete, this has devolved into a battle of egos, as these forum discussions often do, but I'd suggest setting the ego aside and looking at Fred's comments as instructional. Even if you think he's a prick (I don't think so, Fred; I'm just sayin'), ask yourself what he knows that maybe you don't. Who cares which of you knows more than the other. That's not the important thing.

I'm sure you're convinced that you know everything you need to know and that Fred shouldn't have the temerity to suggest otherwise. I'm not no teckie, that's for sure, but I know enough to know that hubris can trip you up as easily as greed, and you know where greed will get you. Guard against thinking, "I couldn't possibly have overlooked anything"; the very nature of the overlooked is that it IS overlooked, and this thinking is closely related to the sin of pride. (Indulge me here, Fred.) I don't want to encourage and abet criminal behavior, but I also don't want to see you end up in the joint again. Don't know if everyone else would say that.

0

CuddleFish Jan. 25, 2010 @ 11:21 a.m.

re 73: Thanks, SD!!

You know, it strikes me that the world famous hacker on here was whining about he wished he knew who ReaderfansagainstBoard was, seems to me with his mad skills he could have found out his identity, even CityBeat's Maass identified the hits as coming from the Reader site, which couldn't have taken too much tech savvy.

Sad .....

0

CuddleFish Jan. 25, 2010 @ 11:55 a.m.

And you def speaking for yourself on that last bit, russl. :)

Imagine a forum where all the threads do not devolve into the 24/7 rantings of the pathetic soul from the planet MeMeMe. My friends, I swear there is such a place, and Fred may yet lead us to that promised land ....

0

PistolPete Jan. 25, 2010 @ noon

What you're forgetting CF, is that I DON'T HACK TO SETTLE BEEFS! How many f***ing ways do I have to say that? I learned just over a decade ago that if you're going to risk prison time, make sure it's worth it. Finding out who ReadersfansagainstBoard isn't really high on my list of things to go to prison for. The computer that I visit my regular sites on is this one. It's NOT my computer, therefore, nothing illegal is done on it. It's clean as a whistle as far as the law is concerned. I could easily find out who RfaB was using one of my laptops. However, the more time I spend on them, the more of a risk I'm taking.

You guys have seen WAY too many spy/hacker movies. Here's a breakdown of how I use my laptops to get done what I need to get done: Hacking-3% Illegal Business Transactions-97% I know hacking basics because I've been doing this for almost 7 years. I could hack into the Pentagon if I had the right codes. My friends help me with what I need. They send me the codes I need.

Fred, I know what you're trying to say. Look at it this way, all of you, a hacker is a Patriot's best friend. The more computer security the government of the worlds create, the more challenges await hackers. It truly is the ultimate cat & mouse game. I don't give two s***s about trying to get one over on the government's security through computers. To me, the computer is a tool I use to get what I need. I do my business and get off.

russl-I too see where you're coming from. I'm a creature of habit. If Fred wanted to help me, I'm sure he could. I just don't think he's willing to risk everything he's worked hard for just for a quick $10,000

I'd suggest that each and every one of you go out and get a set of false papers but I'd get laughed at. Our world is changing so fast that humans can't really keep up with it. The government uses this realization against it's own people. Endtimes? Yes? No? Maybe? All I know is that when they come, and it won't be long, I'm prepared to take a stand.

I'm actually considering cashing in my chips and moving to someplace highly wooded. You guys ever seen the movie "Shooter"? A place like that. :-D

0

SDaniels Jan. 25, 2010 @ 4:48 p.m.

Pete assured @79:

"However, the more time I spend on them, the more of a risk I'm taking...

...To me, the computer is a tool I use to get what I need. I do my business and get off."

I don't get it. Unless the 'business' you're talking about is twelve hours a day on the Reader site. Doesn't that time on your girlfriend's or her husband's computer constitute "risky" computer time?

Sounds like you may not have weighed ALL of the risks, Pete, and as maninthemirror commented, it also sounds like you could use some better investment advice, but you are making the choices you want...Tell you what, if I were you, I'd put ALL ego aside, and learn from the experts that you know to be experts, and pay especial attention when their opinions diverge--better way to make choices, no?

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CuddleFish Jan. 25, 2010 @ 5:34 p.m.

Why you raining on my parade, Daniels?

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SDaniels Jan. 25, 2010 @ 5:51 p.m.

Sorry, doll. Guess my E-meter ran out there for a second. You just keep turnin' us on now, ok? ;)

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PistolPete Jan. 25, 2010 @ 6:23 p.m.

My laptops are at an undisclosed location. I use this computer for porn, looking for work and discussing my nefarious ways. :-D

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SDaniels Jan. 26, 2010 @ 12:07 a.m.

Here's the way I see it, Pete. You spend your days protesting as a disgruntled taxpayer against big government and its fraudulent waste of taxpayer monies.

However, you yourself are not a taxpayer because you don't work, and you don't own property, so you don't pay property taxes. You won the largest sum you've ever had through a state lottery, but did not pay taxes on those funds, either.

It seems to me that sharing an identity with another person, and paying just partial tax for one citizen on that identity constitutes not so much screwing the government as it does screwing the taxpayers who have to pay for that government--which, it seems, must be all the larger to seek out and prosecute fraud cases like yours. Meanwhile, the rest of us pay our taxes, and have paid into the system since we got our first jobs.

Sure, you pay state sales tax on your everyday purchases, but that does not seem enough to justify your hobby of critiquing any use of taxpayer dollars. I can accept that from friends who are expats because they no longer live here, and have chosen to pay taxes in other countries. This is not the case with you, as you continue to benefit from living in this country, and from the equal protection under law that you would deny some others, it seems.

Let me know if you think this is an unfair characterization.

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PistolPete Jan. 26, 2010 @ 1:28 a.m.

That's a very fair characterization. However, like you said, I don't work. This is the longest period since 15 years old, other than being in prison, that I have not worked. I've paid my taxes INVOLUNTARILY for 18 years, yet, I don't drive(still paying taxes when I work) and I don't have kids(still paying taxes when I work). As far as I'm concerned, the government just pisses our tax money away anyhow. My Powerball money should not be taxed. I believe in ONE flat tax for everyone.

I just read somewhere on this site(possibly a Bauder blog)not too long ago that the U.S. government pays $400.00 a gallon of gas in Afghanistan. $400?!!!! WTF? We're at war for Christ's sake! Take the goddamn oil! I'm tired of it, SD. You guys may turn a blind eye to corruption on a grand scale but I refuse.

Our government works for us. NOT the other way around. Something is seriously fed up in this country when I get sentenced to 6 years in prison for Armed Robbery with a fing butcher knife and some bitch from Poway robs 2 banks with a fake gun and gets 2 years prison time. While out on bail, she robs 2 more banks. She's facing an additional 4 years. Hmmmmm......let's do the math....

23 year old robs restaurant-6 years 37 year old mother of 5 robs 4 banks-faces up to 6 years

I was facing 104 years maximum on 3 state charges in Wisconsin. Armed Robbery, Armed Burglary and False Imprisonment.

This bitch isn't even being charged by the Feds!

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SDaniels Jan. 26, 2010 @ 4:20 a.m.

re: #86:

Pete complained:

"I've paid my taxes INVOLUNTARILY for 18 years, yet, I don't drive(still paying taxes when I work) and I don't have kids(still paying taxes when I work)."

Uh yeah, we all have. What's your point? It's a fact of life, and of living in a structured society, where things must be paid for.

"My Powerball money should not be taxed."

No one believes their money or property should be taxed!! Again, it's a fact of life. What makes you exempt--literally--exempt, from paying taxes on your earnings or gifts? If you just decide you are going to pass on taxes, then you shouldn't be living in this country any more than the immigrants you are always harping on, Pete.

"As far as I'm concerned, the government just pisses our tax money away anyhow... I believe in ONE flat tax for everyone."

Great that you believe in one flat tax, but you don't have the right to decide when or if that happens by yourself. You have the right as a citizen to lobby on behalf of changes to the tax codes, but not to just start paying what you want, or not paying.

It is pure, unadulterated hypocrisy, among many other things. It is nothing short of astonishing that you continue to harp on what the govt. and big biz does, while you mimic their actions on a smaller scale.

"You guys may turn a blind eye to corruption on a grand scale but I refuse"

I don't know what or who you are referring to here, but again, I see not much of a difference between greedy corporate tax munchers taking advantage of federal bailouts and backroom deals, and you. You are like the little kid playing dressup in his daddy's office suits, carrying around his briefcase with a couple of bucks in it. Except your playtime involves again--screwing over the rest of us taxpayers. I guess my question is...Why? Why do you continue to hold yourself to a different set of standards, yet continue with your critiques of others who are just trying to survive? And how does the hypocrisy of it escape you, that you are doing just what you loathe and condemn and judge in others?

You do realize the logical outcome of your actions, if everyone just started doing what you do--not pay. The infrastructure would crumble fast, right before your eyes. So, while the rest of us hold up the building, what gives you the right to sit in an armchair, sipping a beer, laughing at us for holding it up? If we drop it, your ass is flattened, too, so no matter what you think of the govt., the ideals you believe in should take you in a different direction, shouldn't they?

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PistolPete Jan. 26, 2010 @ 9:44 p.m.

SD? Answer this honestly... Capital Punishment:Hypocrisy or retribution?

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PistolPete Jan. 27, 2010 @ 10:59 a.m.

I guess SD realizes that no matter how she answers this, I'm right and she's wrong....

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SDaniels Jan. 27, 2010 @ 2:08 p.m.

It's hilarious how you try to avoid a straight answer, Pete. By the way, you aren't very good at doing it, as we saw in the examples with Fred, too...

Let's put capital punishment aside, as it has absolutely nothing to do with this, or any of the questions I asked you, and let's also put aside your assessment that your answers will be "right," (not to mention my predicted "realization" of this)---as not useful--

--- and just answer the damn questions! --If you can and will. If you are honest, it should hurt a little, unless you are a total sociopath.

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PistolPete Jan. 27, 2010 @ 2:14 p.m.

I'll answer in due time, SD. You answer me first. Remember though, no matter how you answer, you're wrong and I'm right...

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PistolPete Jan. 27, 2010 @ 2:22 p.m.

Since I know you're going to somehow sidestep the answer, let's break it down...

If you answer hypocrisy, I say what's the difference between how the government is hypocritical and how I'm hypocritical.

If you answer retribution, I say the same thing. How is the government handing out it's own brand of retribution different than me handing my own brand of retribution?

Am I a hypocrit? Yes, I am. Is the government a hypocrit? Yes, it is. What's the difference? I'll tell you what the difference is. There is no difference. What's good for the goose is perfectly acceptable for the gander.

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antigeekess Jan. 27, 2010 @ 2:41 p.m.

"Capital Punishment: Hypocrisy or retribution?"

Vermin removal. Surgery on the body of humanity to cut out a cancer so that it doesn't do any more damage.

Kind of like putting down a dog with rabies. It ain't the dog's fault he's got rabies, but he's also going to be no good to anyone, including himself. Do him and the rest of us a favor, and dispatch him to a better place.

(I'm from Texas, in case anyone forgot.)

;)

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PistolPete Jan. 27, 2010 @ 3:13 p.m.

Ahhhhh....Texass. Land of, "It's wrong to do that and we'll prove how stupid we look by doing it to you".

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antigeekess Jan. 27, 2010 @ 3:23 p.m.

Texas. Land of:

"Kill somebody, and we'll kill ya back." -- Ron White

:)

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PistolPete Jan. 27, 2010 @ 3:27 p.m.

LULZ! I love that guy. Should be, "Texass:Land of Bush...please nuke us now" though.

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Russ Lewis Jan. 27, 2010 @ 3:30 p.m.

No, Pete, the state motto is "Texas: The land that time forgot."

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PistolPete Jan. 27, 2010 @ 3:35 p.m.

LOL! That's about as true as I've ever heard about that place. Barren, wasted, redneck, trailer trash space. On my way out here, the Greyhound bus passed through Amarillo. My GOd what a dump! It looked to me as if it taken over by banks and furniture stores...

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antigeekess Jan. 27, 2010 @ 4:34 p.m.

Oh, come ON now. Judging Texas by Amarillo is equivalent to judging California by Bakersfield.

You 'are' both aware that 3 of the 10 largest U.S. cities (Houston, San Antonio, Dallas) are located in Texas? And that all 3 of them are larger than San Diego?

Expand it to the top 20, and you can include Austin (my favorite Texas city) and Ft. Worth (the exact opposite of Austin, and my second favorite for its authenticity).

All 5 of these Texas cities are bigger than places like Baltimore and Boston, and even lowly El Paso, at #22, is still bigger than Denver, Seattle, Vegas, Atlanta, etc., etc.

It's Texas, man. The place is BIG -- bigger than California, and divided into 7 geographical regions. Characterizing all of Texas as a bump in the road that looks like Amarillo is just plain silly.

http://www.traveltex.com/CitiesAndRegions.aspx

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SDaniels Jan. 27, 2010 @ 5:04 p.m.

re: #92:

"What's good for the goose is perfectly acceptable for the gander."

You are the only one sidestepping anything. You are doing a little tapdance around your bad ethical choices because you don't want to admit that you don't have a right to protest as a taxpayer against the government's spending habits.

Perfectly acceptable? It is not acceptable, because you are committing felonies, and because, more importantly, you are screwing over the taxpayer. Being a tax cheat, you cannot rightfully and logically take a position against the government, and decry its actions, because you both screw the taxpayer in a similar manner; by doing what you do, you condone the actions of the government. You constantly bemoan what has become of this country--if everyone decided selfishly to do what you do, the infrastructure would crumble entirely, as I said. Therefore, you take part in the destruction of this country.

Your logic is not even twisted logic, Pete--there is no logic here, unless you want to call it the logic of greed and social irresponsibility.

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antigeekess Jan. 27, 2010 @ 5:13 p.m.

"Technically, Texass IS bigger than Cali but not by much..."

Texas: 268,820 sq mi California: 163,696 sq mi

Nah, not by much. Only about 60% bigger. Math skills not required in day trading? I would have thought differently.

:)

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