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“So far, Deicide is the only show I haven’t been able to move up here,” says Joe Troutman, who last week walked away from his four-year job booking the Jumping Turtle in San Marcos to work for the year-old Mainstage in Ramona. Around a half dozen events scheduled for October through January will happen on their original dates, but relocated to Ramona.

Troutman says the jump was due to “disagreements with the owner. I was responsible for over 80 percent of the booking, but then someone else was doing the weekend shows.… I ended up walking away, even though I had to lose my deposit on Deicide.”

Another factor was Turtle opposition from various city factions that resulted in several event restrictions. “The all-age shows were a huge problem, but in Ramona all ages are permitted as long as they’re accompanied by an adult.… We’ll have a 21-and-up section, where alcohol can be served. Plus, now I can start selling tickets online, and I’m officially allowed to charge a cover, where we had to ask for ‘donations’ [in San Marcos].”

At 50 feet wide and 14 feet deep, “The Ramona stage is twice as big as the Turtle’s,” says Troutman, “and we also have a dressing room behind it, with its own bathroom, which we didn’t have [in San Marcos]. There’s a full soda bar, too, instead of just Coke from a [faucet] gun.” Jumping Turtle’s seating capacity is 213, while the Mainstage is around 350.

The Mainstage interior retains much of the original layout of the single-screen theater that operated in the locale for over 50 years, beginning in 1947; venue owners Orrin and Cheryl Day bought the building in 2002. Says Troutman, “I think it has the potential to be comparable to the House of Blues.… The only other place up here that even does live music is Molly Malone’s, and that’s more of a dive bar.”

Troutman’s October 31 Halloween show features a lineup typical of upcoming events, with Portuguese spook-rockers Moonspell, along with Divine Heresy, Book of Black Earth, Secrets of the Moon, and La Mesans Ruines ov Abaddon.

“After 11 years of booking shows,” says Troutman (who also booked the Longshot Saloon and Brick by Brick), “I’ve developed a real niche for underground hard rock and heavy-metal bands.” He reveals that a so-far-unannounced show will feature cartoon metalheads Green Jellÿ, who draw upwards of 1500 people at downtown’s Comic-Con International.

“When they played the Turtle, they didn’t have anywhere to put their costumes.”

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Comments

justafan Oct. 22, 2009 @ 9:16 p.m.

Boy, this sounds like a bitter owner-doesn't it?

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rockman2010 Oct. 22, 2009 @ 6:25 p.m.

LMAO!!!!....lol....the only reason any of these shows followed Joe is because he is willing to pay a lot more then anyone else. The majority of the bands he books no one else books because either they don't draw, or they draw a bunch of 10 year olds. I have been hanging at the Turtle for a year and in the short time he has not been booking the place is 110% better. No more crappy screamo or 10 year old bands. There is a nice mix again. Don't get me wrong I like metal, but not every show. BTW, 90% of Joe's shows bombed. This is coming from a sucker who paid $15-$20 to hang out with 20 people on most of his shows. There is not a lot of options in NC. I think maybe Joe forgot that the bar makes it's money on booze!! I have a lot of friends in bands that simply stop playing the Turtle.... These bands are now stooked they have their Turtle back and Joe is gone. My last point is this, if Joe was so great why did he end up in Ramona. House of Blues, LOL..... I think this guy seriously needs to get a clue! I feel sorry for the owner in Ramona. Thanks Turtle for taking out the trash!!

P.S. Molly Malones might be a dive bar but from what I've seen they are always packed and Mainstage is maybe 30. Joe Troutman is the best thing that ever happen to Mollys. Now no one will consider Ramona Mainstage and head right into Mollys. Don't forget as well, NO BOOZE at the mainstage. Hard to enjoy a show without my friend Jack!

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imchelseam Oct. 22, 2009 @ 10:54 p.m.

What do you mean no one else books the shows that Joe books? He gets to these bands first because he's made a connection with the members instead of booking them for money. How is the Turtle better now that Joe is gone? If you mean it's better in that a bunch of midlife crisis adults can drink another 4 brewskies without having to deal with a bunch of "10 year olds" then I suppose you must be correct. How many screamo bands does Joe book? I've seen a few announced, but at least he doesn't buy into the really terrible bands like Brokencyde, which House of Blues booked. I love the bands that he books, the only venues I go to locally are Soma which has ALL of the screamo bands and an occasional metal band and House of Blues which rarely gets good shows. I've been to a few shows at the Turtle (metal shows, mind you; folk, death, you name it) with my boyfriend and friends and they were all awesome and we had a great time. And seriously, if you need booze to have a good time then that's just sad. Can you not enjoy the music sober? Maybe if the Turtle had been run better it wouldn't have to run completely off of booze. The only reason it stayed open was because of Joe's shows and hopefully someone will realize that when someone has liver failure due to their strong love of the Turtle and its booze. This is all about the music, not some dinky bar (which I truly did love, don't get me wrong) filled with a bunch of neandarthals who can't share their booze a few nights a week with people of all ages who just want to escape and have a good time.

P.S. It specifically says there is a 21+ section where there is indeed alcohol for sale.

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StopItMatt Oct. 23, 2009 @ 1:11 a.m.

Whoa, condidering there is a Cease and Desist Order against you Matt, we would think you would stop with all the defamation and slander. You must REALLY want to be sued! Your club sucks you are NOTHING without Joe and you know it!

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PistolPete Oct. 23, 2009 @ 12:37 p.m.

Why all the drama? All local music sucks anyway. You couldn't pay me to listen to 3/4s of the garbage coming out of this town.

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Jay Allen Sanford Oct. 23, 2009 @ 12:02 a.m.

Matt at the Jumping Turtle sent below email regarding this Blurt, which I'm posting in its entirety with his permission:

MATT: You would think I would be used to it by now, but I still don't understand how I keep reading Reader articles pertaining to the Jumping Turtle without both sides. This email is regarding your most recent article about Joe Troutman in Ramona/Jumping Turtle. I think you're missing a huge part of the story.

Joe did not leave - he was asked to leave. Mainly due to policy violations and consistent overall poor show draws for about the last year in a half. Joe was not following Turtle policies. The majority of his shows drew 95 percent under 21 [patrons], which is not conducive to our venue. Ask around the local bands and you'll hear for yourself. If you are interested in the rest of the story please feel free to call me anytime. Joe was not with the Turtle for 4 years and there are a couple of other issues with this story. There is a reason this guy is in the middle of the desert. Once again, you don't have to listen to me, just ask around the local scene. I guess it would have been nice for you guys to once get our side of the story.

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malleussatanicu Oct. 23, 2009 @ 1:55 p.m.

The only reason those bands are following Joe Troutman is because he is the only promoter that will pay the high prices that they ask. They have no loyalty to him or anyone else. Promoter after promoter in San Diego anyways turns those bands down and Joe Troutman doesnt. What does Deicide want $5000? Green Jelly $3000 or something stupid like that.

If Joe wants to keep losing thousands of dollars then let him. The Jumping Turtle is a decent place and the owner Matt seems like an alright guy that is looking out for his business.

Ramona Mainstage will not sustain unless they lower prices, $7 a beer? Come on, In Ramona (Who knows what is fair for a show)? From what I hear the sounds sucks to.

Joe Troutman made a big hoopla about how much of a dick Ken Leighton was because Ken [allegedly] went out of his way to try and get the Turtle closed, He failed bigtime.

Now Joe Troutman turns around and goes to Ken Leightons buddy Jay Allen Sandford and son,and runs his mouth about the Turtle. Joe to me you have just lost all of your respect period, Then you try to talk about Molly Malones?

Are you that stupid man? Mollys is Ramonas local treasure and has been for years. Bob doesnt rip off the consumer, He pays the bands GREAT!!!! Which you do not, He does not make bands sell a zillion tickets and then hand him over $1000 and give them $20 bucks.

Bob buys his customers drinks, rarely even charges a cover, Gets the SAME BANDS THAT YOU BOOK!!!!! To call Mollys a dive bar is a slap in the face to every Ramona resident.

Someone should make Ramona residents aware of that. Perhaps myself and the Ramona Sentinel, Maybe the chamber of commerce.

Joe Troutman you can fool some of the people some of the time, But you cant fool all the people all the time. People are seeing through this bull already.

You are a rattlesnake in the grass now, Ramona has a good way of getting rid of Rattle snakes.

IF JOE TROUTMAN WANTS TO CONTINUE LOSING THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS (THEN STICK LOCAL BANDS) WHAT KIND OF PERSON DOES THAT SAY HE IS?

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StopItMatt Oct. 23, 2009 @ 12:29 p.m.

Matt, nothing that you have said in any of the above comments is even remotely true. It is all pure fiction and you know it. Joe quit working for you because of your tyrany.... It is unbelievable that after everything that Joe has done for you, that you have the nerve to so viciously attack him and threaten his family. Everything good that ever happened to your crappy dive bar, was entirely because od Joe.... Joe has had your back through all the drama and for you to attack him in such a vicious mannar is disgusting! Joe has never stolen from anyone, in his entire life.... Joe paid you a room rental for every show he put on, then paid the bands with whatever money was left from the door, often not making a single cent himself. But now here you are, suddenly waving your room rental and giving the bands every dollar that comes in, all in an evil effort to garner twisted support for your dimented plan.... I am so glad to no longer be a part of your saddistic tyrade of hatred and actually be free to work for a ligitament and honest employeer. Joe is more than happy to be away from you as well and looking forward to continuing his successful career without you sabbotaging and backstabbing him every chance you get. Your tyrany...stops here! No more...unless you want to be sued! Lean what a Cease and Desist order is and knock off the drama! You're done Matt! One more word from you and...you're finished! No more!

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imchelseam Oct. 23, 2009 @ 3:27 p.m.

They have no loyalty to Joe? How can you be so sure? Are you over at his place when he has the bands he books over to hang out? You will probably think the bands are doing that out of pity though, or perhaps you think they're doing it to brown nose or maybe even get a few free drinks out of him.

How can you say the Jumping Turtle is a decent place? Have you ever been there? It's about as small as an elementary school classroom, the food is nothing to brag about (ask Mike LePond of Symphony X, he ate there when he played with Seven Witches), the bathrooms are the size of Port-O-Potties, and the sound quality has to be worse than Ramona Mainstage because it's a bar with poorly spaced amps, and crappy ones at that. As for Matt being a decent guy, don't judge a book by its cover. He is a cook of an old man, not to mention vindictive.... I didn't spend hours doing favors for the Turtle to help it stay open for him to be a pain in the ass and make everything excruciatingly difficult. Drama revolves around that old fart, had he kept his mouth shut all along the Turtle wouldn't have been on the brink of being shut down by the city and I wouldn't have had to waste my time driving an hour to San Marcos on weekdays to go to protests and pass the petition around for hours every day. He is greedy and ungrateful and deserves to get his bar shut down, seeing as he can't run it properly and control the atmosphere.

As for Mainstage's beer prices, that's nothing. A cup of water at Mayhem Fest this year was $5. Prices are either too low or too high nowadays and I'd actually prefer the prices of alcohol to be that way during a show because then it's less drunks and creeps that I have to deal with and it makes the show much more enjoyable for me. If you're bitching about alcohol prices, go somewhere else, especially on nights that are booked.

Joe defended the Turtle in the beginning, you are correct. However, he saw that the way it was managed and run was far from salvagable, especially since he had been continually getting screwed over, so he made the decision to leave and gave his opinion accordingly.

Now, I've never been to Molly's but Joe wasn't insulting the place. He was making a comparison based on what Mainstage could be music venue wise and that Molly's is more of a dive bar than a music venue. It just seems that many Ramona Molly's fanatics have their panties in a bunch... and I have never seen a band I usually see at the Turtle have Molly's on their location for a show...

And why do so many people try to tag Joe as a bad person? All he wants to do is hook up good shows for him and fans of all ages to enjoy. He always gets local bands to play during shows, more so than I've ever seen at any other venue from San Marcos and south.

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Jay Allen Sanford Oct. 23, 2009 @ 5:01 p.m.

NOTE - After I posted Matt's email (comment 4), it was edited by someone else, I don't know who or why. I don't blame Matt for being upset - so please note that comment #4 from Matt at the Jumping Turtle now only contains part of his email, rather than the entire unedited email I originally posted -

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Jay Allen Sanford Oct. 23, 2009 @ 5:25 p.m.

After reviewing the edits to this comment section, I can see what russl means about potentially libelous statements.

At issue is that there is no indication Matt's #4 comment WAS edited. To present his email fairly within the confines of site rules, here is his entire email again, but with notation as to the edits ---

MATT: You would think I would be used to it by now, but I still don't understand how I keep reading Reader articles pertaining to the Jumping Turtle without both sides. This email is regarding your most recent article about Joe Troutman in Ramona/Jumping Turtle. I think you're missing a huge part of the story.

Joe did not leave, he was asked to leave. Mainly due to policy violations and consistent overall poor show draws for about the last year in a half. Joe was ... [9 WORDS EDITED HERE] ... not following Turtle policies... [15 WORD SENTENCE EDITED HERE DETAILING ALLEGED POLICY VIOLATIONS]

The majority of his shows drew 95 percent under 21 [patrons], which is not conducive to our venue. Ask around the local bands and you'll hear for yourself. If you are interested in the rest of the story please feel free to call me anytime. Joe was not with the Turtle for 4 years and there are a couple of other issues with this story. There is a reason this guy is in the middle of the desert. Once again, you don't have to listen to me, just ask around the local scene. I guess it would have been nice for you guys to once get our side of the story.

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 23, 2009 @ 7:08 p.m.

I am so glad to no longer be a part of your saddistic tyrade of hatred and actually be free to work for a ligitament and honest employeer.

By StopItMatt

StopItMatt = Joe

imchelseam = Joe

malleussatanicu = Joe

Joe-I'm NOT taking anyones side here, but you now have 3 socket puppet accounts.

If you dispute the comments, and by these posts it is obvious you do-please post under you're name or let us know it is you, don't say "Joe says...", just come out and say "Matt, this is Joe, you're full of.......".

It really sets the record straight, and you don't look like you're pulling a fast one by making sock puppet comments.

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magicsfive Oct. 23, 2009 @ 7:13 p.m.

LMMFAO....."socket puppet".....lol surfpup

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Sinner Oct. 23, 2009 @ 9:10 p.m.

I saw Exodus at the Jumping Turtle---Great show.....

Forbidden was good also. Deicide is pretty lame.

NC is far to drive to, don't know if I'll make it up to Ramona, maybe for Testament.

Not to many local bands do it for me, but I might check 'em out for $5 at some venue off of El Cajon on occasion.

www.myspace.com/clrawkstars

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StopItMatt Oct. 23, 2009 @ 9:09 p.m.

I'm actually NOT Joe and neither are any of those other people.

StopItMatt = is a former Turtle staff member but NOT Joe! Sorry but nice try! But good luck figuring out which of your "loyal minions" has turned their back on you, Matt.

imchelseam = is chelsea m (obviously; I'm Chelsea M)

malleussatanicu = Matt Hall

Rockman2010 = Matt Hall

Joe hasn't posted anything on here, he's actually too busy working and building his career rather than contributing to Matt's slander fest. That and his internet is down at the moment. That's not to say though, that he hasn't been norptified about every word posted here, because he has. He has just chose to syat out of it and let his attorneys do all the work. I on the other hand, LOVE calling Matt out on ALL his BS because frankly, the truth deserves to be known!

...anyone who believes a word [Matt] says is an idiot!

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SurfPuppy619 Oct. 23, 2009 @ 9:42 p.m.

Joe hasn't posted anything on here, he's actually too busy working and building his career rather than contributing to Matt's slander fest. That and his internet is down at the moment. That's not to say though, that he hasn't been norptified about every word posted here, because he has.

By StopItMatt

Joe, no one would know this info but you Joe!

No more gimmick account posting.

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StopItMatt Oct. 23, 2009 @ 11:31 p.m.

I'm NOT Joe! Any Turtle staff member knows all this same info. Not to mention several other people. It amuses me that you think I'm Joe though. But sorry you're wrong. I'm NOT Joe, just the brains of this whole operation. But I did just get off the phone with Joe. He's in Ramona tonight, where there is a crowd of people for tonight's show, unlike The Jumping Turtle, where none of the bands other than the headliner even bothered to show up! Great show Matt! You're doing a FANTASTIC job without Joe! LMAO

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imchelseam Oct. 24, 2009 @ 12:06 a.m.

Why would Joe come up with a username like mine? XD It clearly states my name, just not my full last name.

How would no one else know these things? It's very obvious that all the crap that is going on at the Turtle is due to poor management. Turtle fans may not know any legal issues that are going on but it's not hard to figure out when an old man is spewing lies and exaggerations from his bitter old mouth.

Matt is upset because he no longer has business.... He figures if he can't succeed then no one can. He feels that he has been stabbed in the back but really he is just throwing a temper tantrum because he is no longer getting away with the games that he plays.

And seriously, if you even cared about the people who went to the Turtle you would remember that I was one of the first people to sign the petition in order to keep the Turtle open, so this is obviously not a fake account made by Joe, nor are the others.

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PapaTurtle Oct. 24, 2009 @ 6:45 p.m.

If I am going to post anything it will be posted with my real name. Similar to the earlier posts via JAS. My only other posts would be under my UN, PapaTurtle. Please do continue though, this is very amusing!

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Sinner Oct. 24, 2009 @ 7:57 p.m.

This is great comedy!!!!

www.myspace.com/clrawkstar

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malleussatanicu Oct. 27, 2009 @ 7:55 p.m.

This is hilarious, You guys sound like the punk rock idiots that cant do a show without it getting shut down. Matt is a hothead, I would be to when my money is on the line. Joe I apologize for my comment, You have every right to state your opinion.

Bands, promoters, owners etc are only as loyal as long as you can make them money. When you no longer make them money you get fired or leave.

Ramona Mainstage is a BIG PLACE. ANYONE CAN DO SHOWS THERE. Just call Orrin and bring him something. I must say there is a reason that Owners go to certain people. If Joe brought a dozen shows at my venue I would let him book them.

Ramona Mainstage has a bunch of promoters and more on the way, So does The Turtle.

You guys just kiss and make up.

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mollysbob Oct. 29, 2009 @ 6:41 a.m.

Well hello there>>> It seems like there is a lot of squabbling going on here... I am the operator of the "dive bar" with the massive sound system that brought 2 live Crew to Ramona, along with Cash'd out, HeadRush, and Train of Thought, long before the "house of blues" came here. My bar may be small, and my advertizing may be smaller, (I do not encourage driving up or down the hill after dark even for sober drivers that do not know the roads) however, for the 25'000 people that do live in Ramona proper, I do my best to book shows that I think people will want to see. I have been a "dive bar" operator here for three years, and if I was irresposible, I would look to book shows that required younger, inexperienced drivers to navigate twisty mountain roads into Ramona, and then I would expect them to drive home after the show. Whoever this guy is, I wish you the best.... For real, We work hard at Molly's to have good shows and not be a burden on the community. Dive bar my a**. People would be proud to have a Molly's in their neighborhood, and sound sucks at the mainstage, work with a real engineer at Molly's!!! DIVE BAR!!!

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marydakin Jan. 23, 2010 @ 8:34 a.m.

THe photo at the head of this article looks like an elementary school play. Who's Joe? What or who's a Jumping Turtle, and who cares? Ok, I'm being facetious. I don't get why the posters are getting so heated.

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